Rotax receives LSA approval for 582

[gyroplanes]

See today's ANN (http://www.aero-news.net/) for the press release. This paves the way for SLSA gyros if the PRA can get gyros included.

[Chuck Roberg]

I heard Rotax wss working on it for the 582. Glad to hear they got it done.

[Doug Riley]

This is a nice breakthrough for Light Sport in general. The price of the Rotax 4-strokes is part of what's driving LSA prices into orbit.

[gyroplanes]

I think I mis-titled this one. You do not actually "get" LSA approval.

It should read that Rotax announced it's 582 is ASTM standards compliant.... that makes it approved.

Can a 582 powered ELSA Dominator be far away? Will any gyroplane manufacturer step up to the plate and make an ASTM standards compliant gyroplane?

Could an SLSA gyro be next on the list?

This is the quickest way to gyroplane recognition in the general aviation community.

[Doug Riley]

Of course, FAA will not allow any rotorcraft to be SLSA. Helos are too complicated (they say), and gyros are too dangerous (they say). They're holding our feet to the fire, requiring us to show them that we can clean up our safety act.

My curiosity about SLSA is what the U.S. manufacturers are doing about products liability. Rotax has an elaborate distribution chain that looks more like a money-laundering scheme that a big legitimate corporation doing business as usual. I'm sure it's there to insulate Bombardier from liability.

You can't hide behind the "it's homebuilt; the owner was the manufacturer" excuse with SLSA. The manufacturer really IS the manufacturer, and has liability exposure.

[PW_Plack]

Doug says,

They're holding our feet to the fire, requiring us to show them that we can clean up our safety act.

Chicken and egg. A proliferation of stable gyros, and what it would demonstrate to the "witch doctors" who remain in the sport, would be a big step in that cleaning-up.

[dragonflyerthom]

Paul

There are Gyro's that are made by manufactures. Look at the J-2. The liability issue is what has been driving the homebuilt phenom for many years. When we stop being a sue nation when we make a stupid mistake, we will see more commercial Gyros.

[Doug Riley]

The J-2 and Air & Space 18A were certified under the regular Type Certification process. That process is still available. It is, however, so expensive that small manufacturers claim they can't afford it and still price their products so that they will sell.

The LSA system provides a simpler certification method for small 2-place aircraft. With the assistance of the ASTM, an international committee put together standards for LSA gyros after elaborate discussions and a number of votes. The FAA refused to allow gyros into the LSA system, however, labelling the gyro accident rate unacceptable. The FAA did offer to re-visit the issue in a few years if we improve our safety record.

The committee standards required compliance with objective measures of stability. The hope among some committee members was that, even if the FAA wouldn't allow manufacture of gyros under the standards, at least the homebuilders would comply voluntarily and the accident rate would improve.

The jury's still out on whether that will happen. Unstable machines are still being marketed aggressively. Of the seven fatal gyro accidents I know of in the last 12 months, three were directly attributable to design instability and two more probably were.

We have met the enemy and he is us.

[gyroplanes]

The FAA refused to allow gyros into the LSA system, however, labelling the gyro accident rate unacceptable. The FAA did offer to re-visit the issue in a few years if we improve our safety record.

The committee standards required compliance with objective measures of stability. The hope among some committee members was that, even if the FAA wouldn't allow manufacture of gyros under the standards, at least the homebuilders would comply voluntarily and the accident rate would improve.

The jury's still out on whether that will happen. Unstable machines are still being marketed aggressively. Of the seven fatal gyro accidents I know of in the last 12 months, three were directly attributable to design instability and two more probably were.

We have met the enemy and he is us.

I don't want to be known as the guy that disagrees with Doug all of the time, and believe me Doug, I think the world of you, but I have to clarify one of your statements.

The only limitation the FAA imposed on gyroplanes is that they can not participate in "Special" Light Sport Aircraft (factory built, SLSA) at this time. Gyroplanes can and are currently being certified as Experimental Light Sport at the owner's request. I believe this can only be done until Jan 31, 2008 however.

Now, you can still build an Experimental Amateur-Built (EA-B) gyroplane and fly it "Light Sport" if it meets the LSA requirements, were not talking the ASTM standards here, just the weight, speed, etc. requirements. You could fly a McCulloch J-2 or A&S 18 as well, if they met the LSA requirements for speed, weight, etc.

After Jan 31, 2008 all of the ELSA certifications will go to approved kits that have at least one SLSA (factory built light sport) model flying and approved. These ELSA kit aircraft will not have to be 51% owner built or fabricated. As little as 1% can be owner accomplished. They will be required to meet the ASTM standards.

If we can get gyroplane manufacturers to get on board the program and build to the ASTM standards, I think we will see the unstable gyros exit the sport or be converted.

Our PRA Chapter has developed a dropped keel NCLT frame that will accept most gyroplane components from unstable designs (so would a Dom, Rotorhawk and other NCLT frames for that matter) The performance we are getting with this NCLT airframe should be an additional incentive to convert the existing fleet.

Our NCLT Protogyro will be flying into (weather permitting) and flown at Mentone.

[gyroplanes]

Doug, Another thing we can do to get accepted by the GA community as a whole, is to clean up our act a little.

I see gyroplanes, all over the country, with duct tape, wire ties and other primitive "fasteners" holding parts on. It may be anarchistic to disregard standard aircraft construction practices, but it doesn't do anything to improve the image of gyros.

The FAA publishes an Advisory Circular called: AC 43.13-1B ACCEPTABLE METHODS, PRACTICES AND TECHNIQUES, Aircraft Inspection and Repair.

http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/99C827DB9BAAC81B86256B4500596C4E?OpenDocument

I am working on a series of articles and Power Point programs on aircraft construction practices, systems and components, theory and maintenance. I plan to debut he first one at Mentone as a seminar on fuel systems.

[Doug Riley]

Yes, Tom, I was speaking of factory-built Light Sport (SLSA) gyros. You can make your homebuilt an Experimental LSA (ELSA) if you want, and if it qualifies. That allows you to fly it with a Sport Pilot license, and it allows current U.L. trainers to convert to experimental LSA trainers.

I do think it's pretty embarrassing that FAA wouldn't let us have factory LSA. The committtee did a very professional job of drafting standards, but the safety record killed our chances.

Maybe it's the rainy weather hereabouts, but I'm not as bullish as some that the gyro safety record is on its way to improvement. There are too many influential people in our little world who don't have their hearts in the stability program.

Read any issue of the PRA mag if in doubt on that point. Look at which high-time CFI or grand ol' person of the gyro world is flying/teaching in which kind of machine. The only way so far that we are able to come together as a community is to soft-pedal the science so as not to "offend" some manufacturer or obstinate oldtimer.

That's a heavy price to pay for "peace in our time."

[Brent_Brown]

He said obstinate oldtimer.