LW-3 questions

[13brv3]

Greetings,

I've been looking at gyros for years, and know that I want to build one after the current RV-8 project. The biggest problem for me is that I just can't get real comfortable with the typical pusher type gyros. Even with a CLT design, you're still typically sitting in the open, with no structure around you, sitting ON the fuel tank, and have a heavy engine ready to hit you from behind in the event of an accident.

At the moment, the Little Wing seems to be far and away the best tractor option available. In looking at the site, the LW-3 (short fuselage) is what I would want, but I do have some questions.

- About how many LW's are flying now?

- What's the max engine weight allowed for the LW-3? (I believe I read 215 lbs somewhere)

- Do you have to cover the fuselage in fabric, or could you leave it uncovered?

- Dragon Wings seem to be the preferred rotor. Do you use the rotor head from RFD as well?

- Any estimate of how long it would take to build one, if you bought the complete fuselage/controls/landing gear package from Ron?

- Can someone point me to a picture of the front of the fuselage of a LW-3? I would want to see it without covering, or cowling, mostly to see how the engine mount is constructed.

Sorry for all the questions, and thanks for any answers you can provide.

Cheers,
Rusty

[giro5]

Have you checked out the "Littlewingautogyro.com" site? Get their video.
There are a long and short version of single place, two place and a long version that uses an elevator and fixed pitch rotor, and an ultralight version.
No you do not have to cover the entire fuselage but the rear tail group has to be covered. If you want a forward fuselage covered and a windscreen I think one plane Ron built was still in the ultralight category until he added fabric on the fuselage. On that one he was also using a MAC engine origionally. Definitely probably going to need a prerotor of some type. Look here under the builders corner threads for LW posts. Several members have been building for a couple of years and are pretty far along. One isn't going to fly an experimental 2+2 so he has it for sale. Personally after I get my kb2 built I am going to start on an ultralight version of the LW.
You dont have to use the DW head with the DW bades but its a good head and not too much more than anything else you can buy. DW blades hub bar comes with multiple holes so you can use them with other heads.
The LW do have the advantages you mentioned but they are a little complicated to build. You should go to Mentone or Bensen days and look them over. Basically you have to build a tube and fabric airplane with the gyro particular stuff thrown in.

[13brv3]

Hi John,

Thanks for the info. I read through the whole LW site this morning, and also looked thorough a pretty large number of archived posts. I'm currently debating ordering the video, along with a set of plans. Heck, I seem to collect plans from the looks of my closet, so why not :)

As a potential builder, the biggest negative to the LW is the long build time, and limited number of flying aircraft. While I have the equipment, and (improving) ability to do the welding, I would certainly opt for the complete pre-welded package. That would cut down the build time significantly, but I still have no idea how long it would take.

When building time is described as "long", it's sort of a relative term. Compared to a typical Bensen type gyro, it's gotta be long, but compared to building most fixed wing experimentals, it's probably not so long at all. That's why I was wondering if someone had a figure for the number of hours it took them to build one.

BTW, I did find Moe's builders page online, and he had some decent pics of the fuselage front, so I can see what I needed to from that.

Cheers,
Rusty

[Timchick]

Frank Darby had a LW-3 for sale. Don't know if it's still available. He had it down at Bensen Days on display last year. Very nice looking gyro.

http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6747&highlight=wing+sale

[13brv3]

Hi Tim,

That's certainly a beauty, though not my personal color preference.

Whatever I get for a gyro will have to be far less expensive than his asking price, since I've already got about $75k tied up in the RV-8. I've already got the engine and instruments as well, so I just need an airframe to put them in.

I still like the LW design, but I do worry that it lacks the unlimited visibility that made me want a gyro in the first place. I guess I just have to keep thinking about what I really want.

Cheers,
Rusty

[giro5]

Did you look on the forum under Kitmaker>Tractor Desighs>When/how to start???Need help>page 1 post 15? The LW booster group have a project for sale. Also that booster group thread (different from above) details a project from '04 to date. Lots of good info on different building aspects. I found building the control cables most enlightning as I would have just swaged the cables and if they passed the swage gage I would have used them. Bad idea.

I bought a book "Aircraft Welding" by L.S. Elzea from Lindsay Publications Inc.
which talks about gas welding 4130 tubing. good book. Also TM Technologies - tinmantech.com has a number of video's and tools abeit expensive. I purchased his torch, 4130 Aircraft construction 2 tape videos, Repairing structural Tubing video with an eye toward building the ultralight version of the LW. In my opinion these are the minimum one should have studied before starting a tube airframe.

[13brv3]

I've read through those threads, and they do offer some nice info. It's great that these guys are taking the time document so much of their work, because it will really help others.

Any welding I do will be TIG, since I have a nice TIG machine. I've done way more aluminum, and stainless than 4130 so far. On a scale of one to ten, my welding ability is probably a 4. Given enough tries, I can make good welds, but it's slow, and I'm not very consistent. What I need is practice, though I doubt I'd weld up my own fuselage. I'm happy that I can weld small jobs, but I don't enjoy it nearly enough to take on a large project.

Cheers,
Rusty (wondering what engines they will choose)

[13brv3]

Greetings,

I'm ordering the plans, and video, and may even be warming up to the idea of welding up the whole thing from scratch, particularly if it saves a lot of money.

Has anyone got a rough estimate of what all the 4130 would cost for a LW-3?

I've also read that it is getting harder and harder to buy 4130, but haven't looked into the details. Is the supply of 4130 going to eventually dry up? If so, is there a current substitute?

Thanks,
Rusty

[giro5]

So far I haven't had any problem with getting 4130 from Aircraft Spruce and I think they are located both the East and West US. I did review some of my welding tapes from tinman and they indicated with TIG you have to go over the joints or welds with a torch to stress relieve the weld.

[John Stahl]

After looking at the LW tandem tractor I was wondering if the passenger up front interferes with the monitoring of the gauges?
When you are flying solo the gauges seem like they would be too far away to easily monitor.

Is there any chance that a side by side LW is in the works?
If there is then where do I sign?

John Stahl
Hornet Tail #
06-0010

[13brv3]

So far I haven't had any problem with getting 4130 from Aircraft Spruce and I think they are located both the East and West US. I did review some of my welding tapes from tinman and they indicated with TIG you have to go over the joints or welds with a torch to stress relieve the weld.

Thanks for the info on the 4130. I'm not sure re-heating the TIG welds is required, or even advisable. I've seen that topic beaten to a pulp on a number of welding threads, and the expert opinions range from "you have to", to "it ruins the whole structure". I would not re-heat the welds with a torch myself.

Cheers,
Rusty

[RHerron]

Thanks for the info on the 4130. I'm not sure re-heating the TIG welds is required, or even advisable. I've seen that topic beaten to a pulp on a number of welding threads, and the expert opinions range from "you have to", to "it ruins the whole structure". I would not re-heat the welds with a torch myself.

Cheers,
Rusty



:eek: Please, don't even think about reheating the welds with a gas torch after TIG welding.



Thanks,
Ron