Luck Has No Place With Gyro Flight

[gyrodes]

I notice that there is a high useage of the word LUCK in reference to many contributions on the forum through out. This I find to be the belittleing a very pleasurable aviation activity, as luck is for gamblers only. The flying of gyros is a sequence of calculated probabilities only due to PROPER TRAINING WITH A COMPERDENT GYRO INSTRUCTOR as well as other qualified people with experiance with gyros. Having read the posts of all the knowelegable people here, There is no luck involved just sound calculated probabilities.
When I go into any activities I put the probabilities in my favour as much as my limited knowelege allows, then I draw on the knowelege of other informed persons.
Let the debate begin,:rolleyes:

[Vance]

Hello Des, I respectively disagree.

Speaking for my self, I was supposed to be in the SparrowHawk with Terry Eiland instead of Bill on that morning at Wauchula. I am not usually so polite as to let someone take my turn, but Bill bought breakfast the day before. I believe that luck had everything to do with that.

I believe it would be arrogant for me to believe that my safety equipment saved me in a 300+ miles per hour motorcycle tumble. I worked very hard at making it safe, but luck still had a lot to do with it. I was lucky to have Jim Deist help me with the design of the safety systems. I thank him for saving my life every time I see him. I am lucky to have Ken Holden help me build my streamliner and I am lucky he was willing to go through two bottles of gas to stress relieve the roll cage. I thank Ken for my life each time I see him.

I am lucky to have Terry, Steve, Terry E and Jim as my gyroplane instructors. I experimented with so many ways to kill them. I drove 500 miles each way to learn, but I am lucky to have access to them at all.

I have survived several impacts that exceed the theoretical limits of the human body and although I am crippled, I am lucky to be on the right side of the grass.

I am lucky to have a valid medical in spite of my injuries.

With all due respect, tomorrow is promised to no one and luck has everything to do with me seeing the light of tomorrow.

Thank you, Vance

[chuter]

I'm of the same opinion as Vance on this one.

You can use the best hardware, train and practice till you're blue in the face.

I don't believe anyone is beyond making mistakes, or getting a piece of expensive hardware with a freak defect.

Call it luck, God's will, fate, whatevery you want. I've had enough close calls in my life, and seen other good people suffer, that I don't believe I ultimately have full control over the events of my life.

[Rehan K.Janjua]

Hello Des.

Vance said it. Luck is Luck.

Thank God I am Lucky. Very Lucky.

May the Luck be with you.

Rehan

[Brad_King]

Luck in these situations just means it not your time yet
.
Was it good luck that allowed the CCTD to go into a Mesquite patch a 80+ mph and both pilots walk away with out a scratch? Was it bad luck for the gyro pilot to have a engine out on his 1st unauthorized pattern, where he froze at the controls and died?

What about the guy driving down the road when a stray bullet ricochets off his rear view mirror and kills him? Bad luck, or was just his time?

All any of us can do is make decisions in life to mimimize our exposure to risk and get on with living our lives.

My brother asked me about my decision to continue to fly at Bensen Days after Terry went down. I told him that there was a fatal car accident that caused me to detour on the trip to Bensen Days but, I continued driving.

To live in fear is not to live at all. Don't be stupid in chosing how go about your life but, don't let fear stop you from living life to its fullest. You only go around once, make the most of it.


Brad King
N6372K
Mad Max II LTC

[Udi]

Luck is just a popular term to describe whether someone is in the good or bad side of the probability scale. Even if you do everything humanly possible to improve your odds at flying, you can still end up in the wrong side of the grass, against your odds. That's bad luck.

But I think what Des was trying to say is that we, as pilots, should leave as little room as possible for luck. I had a flight instructor back in the Air Force that used to say - when there is doubt, there is no doubt. Do the right thing.

Udi

[skier]

Not sure where it's from, but I've heard a quote "never trade luck for skill". Luck is always a good thing to have on your side. There are always things that will go wrong and for most training will work, for others we have to rely on luck.

[StanFoster]

There is one side of luck I firmly believe in....thats where "preparation meets opportunity". Think about....there is a whole lot of truth to that. Whether it be in your line of work or your leisure activities....that statement goes along way towards making your own luck.


Stan

[scott heger]

If you go to the big city and decide to drive past every red light at 100 MPh with no brake fluid, your "luck" will run out soon. If you drive 100MPh ,but buy brake fluid , and stop at the red lights, your "luck" will probably last longer. Wear seatbelts and use a helmet increases "luck" somemore.

I guess what I am saying is that with every consideration for safety,your "luck", read life, becomes longer. Ever heard of taking too much time doing a preflight, or flight planning a cross country trip and getting too much alternate airport and weather information? Sure it cuts into the flying time, but overall it could add many years to your life.

I agree with Brad King, life is a balance of risk and benefits we all must weigh. I have no wish to die flying or enjoying any other sport or hobbie; but also fear just as much (or more)growing too old without living my dreams that I had the ability to make happen.

Can you imagine Vance Breese never racing a motorcycle, Marion Springer never learning to fly a gyro, Brad King never test piloting the Carter Copter, Jim Vanek never looping a gyro, or Ken Brock not being involved in this sport? They have all taken risks far beyond what many of us have done, and have had rich lives for it. They have all found that balance,and "luck" that many only seek and never obtain. None of us will be around forever, but we should all try to live the dreams, grasp the opportunities presented, and enjoy the time we have.

This weekend I am driving to San Felipe Mexico. Not because it is really safe to make a 6 hour drive into Mexico, or that the beer is cold and cheap, and that the freshly caught fish tacos are the best tasting around. Not because there is hundreds of miles of unspoiled beaches to drive and explore. No, is is because many longtime friends are going to enjoy each others company camping on a beach and build on memories that can not be duplicated anywhere else. Staying home would be much easier, but watching the Indy 500 on a portable TV on the sand in the middle of nowhere with a cold beverage is really a special treat that is not to be forgotten anytime soon.

Scott Heger,Laguna Niguel, Ca N86SH

[Jazzenjohn]

That sounds like a great weekend Scott!

I think that what Des was getting at was the implication that anyone would or should RELY on luck. The fatalistic idea that you'll go when your time comes discounts that your time doesn't need to come from ignoring a problem discovered during a preflight or that you don't need to do one at all, it discounts that you shouldn't ignore the weather or winds or your own lack of knowledge or training because "You'll go when the time comes". If you ignore those things you'll go when your time comes, but your time will likely come sooner.

[birdy]

Theres two things i will never depend on to help save my ass, they are luck and ol mate upstares[ if he is there]. I'v never thought "sh1t, that was lucky", or "thank you lord".
I'v had alota close calls with sum very unfriendly critters and sum lapses in concentration on machines, but coz i truely belive i'm 100% responsable for my own health and safty, my mind [ and my subconsious] is always watchn my back.
Its not supprising that the people who aren't switched one or awake are the ones who get hurt.

[gyrodes]

Thank you all for your comments, they all have good input to the heading I used for this topic. I thank Birdy for his post as it is exactly the point I was driving at, " AS GYRO PILOTS WE MUST TAKE AND BELIEVE THAT WE ARE TOTALY RESPONSEABLE FOR OUR SAFETY THROUGH OUR ACTIONS." I have to agree 100% with the statement " I never depend on luck or the ol mate upstairs." I just have to look around here in Ozzie and see all this Work Safe information put on the tele and media to see that complacencey is starting to show its very ugly head. Why because when you talk to any one about it they say " Thats the luck of the draw" or "thats Murphy's law". Crap to that,it is just the old passing the buck thing. Bottom line " THE BUCK STOPS WITH ME & I." We all have to remember this as our time he is indeed only a short peroid in the fullness of things. I will be doing my best effort to enjoy my gyro flying to its fullest safe potential with regular test flights with instructors as I know with time we become complacent. If I chose not to do that I would be just relying on that evil LUCK and then Murphy has the right to strike me down. Thanks for your posts, past, present and future, just keep them comming as you will help the newbies to understand not to rely on LUCK.

[Vance]

Hello Des, It sounds like luck is defined in a different way in your culture down under.

As a young man I imagined that I was omnipotent. I took responsibility for everything that happened in my life. The world didn’t always work out the way I wanted it too, so I had to develop a little humility.

I haven’t had to pay for many of the mistakes I have made, and often life works out better if it doesn’t go the way I thought it should.

I am not better or more mistake free than my friends that are no longer with us. They had to pay for their mistakes.

I have found that whenever I believe I know it all I quickly learn that I don’t.

I am grateful that it is not my job to control the world because it frees up a lot of time for fun and I don’t spend much time on regret and guilt.

If I am not happy with the way things turned out it usually means that I had unreasonable expectations. I try to learn from that.

I prepare the best I can, but I don’t want to be burdened thinking that I must be better than those that have died before me. That would be a lot of work and I have a poor work ethic.

Luck favors the prepared, and without losing site of that, I am grateful that luck has been there when my omnipotence ran out.

I believe that what we have here is a cultural nuance and I hope I have had the good luck to explain it well. I would be the last one to say you fellows are wrong because you talk funny.

Thank you, Vance

[mceagle]

Damn it Vance, stop being so philisophical, you make the rest of us look dumb and tounge tied.
You certainly have a way with words.

[j bird]

Is'nt it called quantum mechanics ????????
j bird

[Olbod]

It doesn't matter what activity one indulges in, some will involve more risk
than others, be it flying, racing, mining, nursing or whatever.
Everyone owes it to themselves, and everyone else, to do it well and responsibly.
Some people live long lives, some dont, some are born dead, some die a cot
death, some are are born with congenital defects or inherited diseases or
contract a life threatening disease.
Some people die and we are at a loss to know why it happened. Its a tragety
that we have trouble coming to grips with.
You can only try to do the best that you can with what you have mentally
and physically at hand, at any given time.
If a bloke was to wander around in a daze on a freeway, he'll likely get
clobbered and we will say the stupid bugger shouldna done it, perhaps,
but I think he was where he was because thats where he was, regardless
of why. If he doesn't get clobbered, he will live out his days untill it is his
turn to die.
Life has got nothing to do with luck, we are all responsible to make the most
of it with what we have and none of us will die before its our turn, its not possible !
I would prefer that we all have a determined effort to make the most of it,
while we have the chance.
Good luck to ya, ay.

[birdy]

Luck favors the prepared
Should be; preparation makes better luck.

[JByrd]

My definition of (good) luck is that of a random category of events that produce a favorable outcome.

My definition of (good) skill is the ability deliberately assist events in a way such as to lead to a favorable outcome.

Luck can be poor and skill can somtimes make up the difference. Luck can likewise be good and skill poor and still do the same.

Luck is an uncontrolled variable. Skill is different. Skill is deliberate and a measure of applied education. No one person displays the same skill in all areas.

I do not trust luck. It is too random and uncaring. I would rather have a mountain of skill that a feather of luck. At least if I fail I will clearly know who is responsible (me).

Jim B.