RAF aerial views

[StanFoster]

Since I like to take pictures and share them...I will post them in this thread I started. I dont want to clutter up Harrys fine thread.

Another beautiful day over Illinois. It was very windy again.

[StanFoster]

some more views

[StanFoster]

another. You can make out most of the drainage tiles in the farmers fields when the ground drying is just right. You can see all the straight rows of drier soil. Thats the tile lines.

[StanFoster]

nearby lake...my stairshop is in that woods behind the lake.

[barnstorm2]

Great Photos!

It was windy in Ohio also.

[LARRYEBOYER]

Hey Stan. Great pictures. At less than 4200rpm I see 80 mph.
That machine hops right along. When you set your rotor blades up,did you notice anybetter flight charistics as the rotor speed increased?More stability? higher or lower stick pressures?What generation blades do you have from RAF? Any stick shake? I just ordered all the rest of the stuff I need to complete my kit. New RAF 24th generation blades.Lexan glass for windshiel and doors. warp drive prop. reduction drive for my colorado rebuild EJ-22 fuel injected engine. There goes the spare change for awhile.

[StanFoster]

Larry: I have the 24th generation blades. I am still working on fine tuning them. I had zero stick shake initially...but my rotor rpm's were only 295. I made a set of tracking bars and Pete at RAF advised that I depitch the blades about 0.060 of an inch. I did some math on this and this amount of adjustment across my 8 inch tracking bar resulted to about .4 degrees of less pitch.

Anyway...my rotor rpm's are up where they should be as you can see in all my photos ....the rotor readouts. But...I have just a little cyclic shake and some minor cabin hop. Minor though...I could live with it...but I love to fiddle with things. I have been moving my chord block .005 at a time till I noticed it getting worse. Then I went to my initial setting and went the other way. Right now I am at a stand still till I can convince myself which blade is tracking higher. I used a laser to align my blades instead of string..but I may go out and sling them and see what that does.

My airspeed was artificially high in that one picture that indicated 80...as I was forcing the nose down for a different perspective for the camera. Most of my photos are straight and level.

I have had it to 95 staight and level...and it would have gone faster...but I wasnt ready and thats too near the redline anyway. But..I was slowly exploring ever increasing speeds with it.

I generally cruise at 4200 and my photos are my own best record. It looks like close to 70 at this rpm is average. I can cruise at 80 indicated..but I am planning on having this machine for a long time..and I figure why wear it out sooner. Probably the only time I would rev it up higher is when going against a good headwind .

[Harry_S.]

This is good info Stan. Maybe should be in the RAF drivers thread too.

Can they be duplicated to there? Todd!!

[Aussie_Paul]

Stan, just pick a blade and change the pitch either way by 20 thou.

Just remember which blade and what change. Forget track, just go for equal lift which is the smoothest ride,

Aussie Paul.

[StanFoster]

Paul: I have to have which blade to adjust down to an exact science. Pick one for me....black tip or white. I will adjust and report back. :)

[StanFoster]

Paul or anyone. Seriously...on this rotor adjustment. I am not one to just start adjusting unless I know whats going on. I started with the chord block exactly centered. Then I moved it one way until the shake was increasing...then back to the centered and the other way by .005 at a time.

I guess my question is when or how do you decide to quit the chord adjustment and then proceed to the individual blade adjustment?

I just dont want to go at this like a dog chasing his tail. :)

[Aussie_Paul]

Stan. Black tip depitch 20 thou. If it is worse go the other way. There is no exact science to Raf or any blades for that matter.

Regards, Aussie Paul.

[StanFoster]

Paul: Black tip it will be....I will report back :)

[birdy]

Stan,mate,"aerial views" usualy mean views from the air,not views of your sexy dash while in the air. ;)

Just a note on Raf engioneering,and I'm not sling'n mud at RAF,but when I changed from the RAF blades to the extruded ones,the first thing I noticed was the new blade track.[8" out of track.]
I rang the dude I bought the extruded ones from and said "I thought you said you tested these blades before you sent them??"He just asked "are you usi'n a stock RAF head,if so ,The teeter bolt holes won't be exactly level,throwi'n your blades out of track."
He was right,The holes were 17th out of level.

After some shimi'n to determine how much to take off the block,I had the block machined to bring the low blade up and the high blade down and now the blades are in perfect track :) .Absalutly 0 shake :D .[When they was 8" out of track,I couldn't get them past prerotate rpm for the shake. :mad: ]

[StanFoster]

Birdy: Thanks for the reply. My blades look like they are tracking close....I am just trying to get the little bit of cabin hop out of it.

Keep up the cow mustering stories....they are mooooooooooooooving.. :)

[StanFoster]

Intercepted some more trikes....

[StanFoster]

take off roll

[StanFoster]

another angle

[Harry_S.]

Beautiful Stan.

[Harry_S.]

Stan;

Your pics are really great and as you know, from the posts you recieved, a lot of good RAF info was offered. I'd like to see this info, as well as your aerial pics showing in flight panel info in the RAF thread. I think future RAF drivers will eat it up!?

Birdy;

Is your machine a 2 seater? I would love to fly *muster* with you; then again, I may not have the balls for it, now. Next best thing would be to watch an inside and an outside video, as it occurs. Yeah, I think I could handle that better.

[StanFoster]

Harry: Thanks...I will post over in your thread. Hey...I have received a lot of information from this forum and also a lot by e-mails from the ones that seldom post here. I am trying to post information that I was scratching all over for as I was deciding to buy my RAF...while I was finishing building it..and while I was learning to fly it.

[birdy]

Harry,mate.
The "steed" is an open single seat.
The RAF is two seats, but I only use it if the other one is out of action.[Too big,heavy and slow to throw around.I have used the RAF on cattle before but it's like joy flying in a FA18.]
Most of the work in the RAF is bore runs or quick trips to town.[2 hours]
I'v got some video footage of some mustering[bolted the camera to the machine]and will take it to the easter flyin here,someone maybe able to do something with it.

[LARRYEBOYER]

Saturday in Pa was a little breezy. I had turned my blade adjustment 1/2 turn to reduce the pitch.I took off and the rotor blade rpm at cruise was 289. This was an improvement of 15 rpms. I have been flying my RAF with too slow of blades. It took a lot of stick force just to get it to bank.It was not like other RAF's I had flown. At 289, it was alittle better, but still not much improvement. I gave it one full turn on the adjustment screw per side. I took off. At cruise I had 315. It was a difference of night and day. Here is what I gained. The stick force to bank went down to about what is needed to pitch. The airspeed increased 10 mph and the nose flew lower. I cruise at 75 at 4200. The prerotor rpm went up dramatically, and when I turned to taxie off the runway,(my slow blades deterioated very quickly down to 50rpm.) I still had 174! When I would land, there wasn't much energy left when you flaired. After the final adjustment, I landed with lots of blade energy making a feather lite landing. I did several take offs and landings, and all were so much better.It got windier(12-20 gusts. This is where I usually put the machine away. I took off and there were no pitch issues or the tail swaying like it did with the lowerer blade speed. It flew like a new machine. So, thanks Stan for the idea of checking and working with blade speed.My blades had no stick shake at the lower RPM. Now I have a slight shake at the higher RPM. I'll gladly accept the shake for all the piositive benefits of higher RPM. Raf claims the sweet spot is 325. any thoughts on that?

[StanFoster]

Larry: I had zero experience as far as what was normal rpm's. Mine were initially 295...and no stick shake. Repeating my story in case someone new is reading...I called RAF and they said it should be 315-325 and suggested a 0.060 inch depitching. So I made me some tracking bars and depitched them. My rpms went up to as what you can read in most of my pictures. 315-325 on average. I have a little stick shake..but not bad. I have been playing with the chord block..taking it one way until it feels worse...then going back to my starting point and going the other way. Presently I have it set at dead center between the towers as measured with my dial indicator. This seems to be the least stick shake. I am next going to try flinging my blades and try that. If that doesnt do it..then I will pick a blade as Aussie Paul suggests and change the pitch a tad.

I will say that now that my 270 pound son is riding along...I can feel more cabin hop..but again..its not bad. But I love fiddling with things and I bet I will get it smoother eventually.

[KenSandyEggo]

Stan, fiddling with blades will keep us too busy to ever have to worry about winding up in a rest home or institution. It's a life-long endeavor. I used to get more "cabin-hop" with heavier loads, and now with SportCopter blades, the heavier the passenger, the smoother the ride. It's very good solo, but loaded up it's even better. Go figger.

[asmuzsr]

This was brought up before on the old forum, and I'd like to bring it up again. To get your blades to fly smoothly you have to do the following:
1. Weight each blade. They should both be the same weight or very close.
2. Balance each blade. They both have to balance at the exact same spot or your going to have vibrations and those cord blocks will never get rid of them.
(Think about it, if the center of the rotor hub is not in the center of rotation your going to have vibrations because it's spinning out of round. like your clothes drier when it's unbalanced. And if the balance point is different on each blade your center of mass is out and that will cause vibrations.)
3. Install your blades to the hub bar and balance the whole set up.

After this install your blades and track them. Setting the tracking so the tips fly in the same path. Setting the tips so they fly out of track is not how you balance a rotor system.

If your blades come from the manufacture, any manufacture, and they don't weight the same or balance each in the same spot. Send them back and save yourself the headaches cause you'll never get them right yourself. It has to be done when they are built.

tony
N267A

[KenSandyEggo]

"After this install your blades and track them. Setting the tracking so the tips fly in the same path. Setting the tips so they fly out of track is not how you balance a rotor system."

Tony, depends who you talk to. Several people that balance gyro blades will tell you that exact tracking is irrelevant. They say that what they are aiming for is equal lift from each blade. If the lift is equal, the blades can be an inch or more out of track and they don't care. They say exact tracking means nothing....that it's the equal lift from each blade that's important.

[asmuzsr]

If the blades are manufactured carefully and all those things I mentioned are done the blades will fly the same. If you were to try flying a helicopter setting up the blades as people describe, being out of track, the machine would shake itself apart.

Tony
N267A

[KenSandyEggo]

But, not all blades are made carefully, especially most glass blades, and gyros are not helis. To have tracking have any effect, each blade would have to be perfectly identical to the other from root to tip in all ways and their angle would have to be perfectly identical along the whole length. That's practically impossible in a glass blade where foam is squirted into a hollow space on each blade to get them seesaw balanced. This throws off the exactness and they will not fly the same due to weight differentiations along their length. The permanent foam is oftentimes layered in haphazardly with air pockets and thick and thin spots along the way. Blades made like that will never be balanced and give a smooth ride, unless you were extremely lucky and got a set that was paid more attention to during the manufacturing process. I know...I had a set like that. Aluminum blades are much smoother overall, as there is hardly no chance of variations along their length or width. Each spar is the same and the only thing inside is air. That's pretty hard to mess up.

An engineer (and A&P, heli-pilot and Rotorway builder) who balances helis all over the world for a living and works for RADS, couldn't balance my blades over a period of months with some of the best balancing gear available. We got the blades tracking perfectly and it made no difference. As I said, some got lucky with the glass blades. Gary Brewer has glass blades and his own balancing gear. He's worked on them for years trying to get them smooth. His stick shake and "cabin-hop" are horrendous. He just can't get it out and he became a master at tracking them. He had reflectors at each tip and used a mirror in flight to shine sunlight on them and a light at dusk to where he got them perfectly tracked. Again, it didn't mean a thing as far as smoothing out the ride. My guy had a light mounted on the nose of my gyro that shone up at the bottom of the leading blade and measured the track precisely. It was a waste of time making the custom bracket for the light, because the perfect tracking did nothing as far as smoothing out the glass blades. They had too many variations along their length to be "balanceable."

[Gordon Gibson]

Ken, you said "gyro's are not heli's".

Very true of course and powered rotor flight is different to un-powered.
My 500 can be a bit rough in cruise but put her into an auto and...smooth as goose sh*t thru a glass funnel.

Gordon Gibson.

[asmuzsr]

Yes Ken your right, blades that are manufactured as you say cannot be balanced because of the inconsistinces in the process. And yes metal blades can be done just as you said. This is why the Sport Copter blades fly so smoothly. I would venture to guess that those blades, each weight the same and balance in the same spot. They have to or your just chasing your tail.

Tony
N267A

[StanFoster]

Ken...Tony..or anyone...

Do you know of anyone that has flown a long time with moderate cabin hop...and would this be detrimental to the keel with the tail shaking?

[asmuzsr]

Stan
Ken had I think over 400 hours on his ship before it was converted. Probably more. I'm sure there's got to be someone with more. But his was ok and he had a pretty bad vibration.

Tony
N267A

[StanFoster]

I was up flying today. This was the windiest day I have ever flown in my RAF. It was right down the runway and talk about fun.



Here are some Deeres out working the soil. I was able to just sit there and my GPS was showing 0 mph.

[StanFoster]

just sitting there looking around at 0.

[StanFoster]

This is the Paxton airport where I keep my gyro. Lots of ultralights..and a very active skydiving club.

[CLS447]

Looks like a real nice place ,Stan

[barnstorm2]

Great Picts!

I like the look of that airport.

[LARRYEBOYER]

Stan, that sure looks like a long way down. Can you land on a postage stamp?

[StanFoster]

out flying this evening....farmers everywhere

[StanFoster]

low pass near a planter

[StanFoster]

I-57 at Paxton exit

[StanFoster]

flying buddy in his Firefox ultralight

[StanFoster]

heading home

[StanFoster]

last picture for today.....I just cant hardly quit flying this thing. I really am completely satisfied with the RAF equipped with a stab. I have not found so much as any sign of it doing something surprising. :)

[KenSandyEggo]

Geeeee, Stan. I wonder where you got the idea for the "Red Kenny J. Double Yarn String Yaw Indicator" from? :mad: I have an active patent on it you know. My attorney will be sending you a licensing agreement for its further use. If the fee seems too steep for you and you continue using it, a cease and desist order will be the next step, followed by a full-blown law suit with punitive damages. You could have used green, you know. Photo of the original attached. Aaaaand......where the heck are your hills and mountains?

[StanFoster]

Ken: Nice photo...yea...its flat as a pancake here...I always wondered how I ended up in the middle of a giant cornfield. :rolleyes:

Hey...my yaw string has redundancy...I took off one day and the single one I had got all wrapped up. So I came out with my "new improved" model....dual red yaw strings. :)

[Harry_S.]

Great satisfaction, isn't it Stan. Sometimes it takes a lot to come down and go home.

[barnstorm2]

Nutz,

I am stuck at work the weather is nice for the first time in weeks and these pictures are making me want to fly soooo baaaddd!!!!!

:( :( :(

[StanFoster]

seems this ditch fascinated me for some reason :rolleyes:

[StanFoster]

more fascinating ditch pictures. :)

[StanFoster]

one last picture of this ditch from todays flying

[Gary_in_Orygun]

Great ditch. Big enough to canoe on. I too am in amazement at "flat" terain. 28 years ago I was flying fixed wings over stuff like that in Wisconsin. Here in Ory-gun there be hills and mountains all over da place.

[barnstorm2]

Great Pictures!

I added the last one to my screen saver collection.

Ditches, streams and rivers are cool to follow. I like trying to stay right over the river at speed as I fly along ( granted in my 447 'speed' is a less impressive figure than in most...)

[barnstorm2]

more river/ditch running

[StanFoster]

Tim: Great pictures you sent. I was flying the other day and saw a flock of geese...so I thought I would get in formation and take a picture......wrong....they broke up into a bunch of different v's and I was left all alone... :(

[LARRYEBOYER]

Here is a picture I took from my RAF last week of an area 4 miles south of Morgantown airport. :)

[LARRYEBOYER]

Here is a picture of my new larry Martin "Ultimate". I love the way it flies!

[LARRYEBOYER]

Here is a picture of one of many pretty girls in my life. ( others include 3 granddaughters, daughter in law and of course debbie Doll) my wife. :cool:

[StanFoster]

Larry: That is a nice looking RAF with that stab you have. :)

I am very satisfied with my RAFand the way it flies with my stab. If I wasnt comfortable with it..I sure would not have made a three hour flight in it to Chicago and back yesterday. Very windy, had my doors on, light rain, heat on... and enjoyed the Illinois scenery roll by r-e-a-l s-l-o-w on the return flight.

I figure this is what my type of flying is....go somewhere..and go there in confidence and in comfort. I cant say enough about how good the RAF handles with a proper stab with the correct incidence. :)