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Screw
04-03-2004, 07:13 AM
Dear Abby,

First of all, I'd like to point out that I can be a little dramatic and things usually are'nt as bad as I make them out to be. I get this from my Irish mother.

1. "DaScrew-Driver" is what I want to talk about and I feel like I need some possible solutions and advice. Right now she weighs in at 295lbs with me and gas 563lbs and she flys fine. The problem is, I'm over heating and worried about blowing the motor. MY CHT is mounted under a head bolt and I'm seeing Temps in the 400-450 range (redline is 450 if it were mounted under a spark plug). My oil temps are 220-230. My tach only ranges to 3500 and I'm pegged most of the time.

2. Geat Plains says that for takeoff, pegged is fine but cruise should be no more than 3000-3100. I'm decending if I throttle back less than about 3400RPM, and he says I'm running the engine way too hard.

To cure #1, I've order a lager oil cooler. 11x11x1, and this is supposed to drop my oil temps 20 degrees. I'm also switching to a synthetic oil (Mobil one 15-50), hoping to keep the engine itself cooler. Finally switching to straight Avgass. This too, I was told, will help keep things cool, give more pep, but is harder on my exhaust valves. I'm also working a deal on a set of 23' Dragon Wings hoping the more efficent blades will give me as much lift as the 24 Brocks without working the engine so hard and with less ground clearance problems. If taking these steps to cure #1 doesn't cure #2 I'm screwed.

To cure #2, the cheapest way to go would be to:

A: Add a redrive to my existing engine ($1295). This complicates things 10 fold because it raises the thrustline 6 inches, plus a mast replacement to accomidate a 60 inch 3 blade prop. Also have to buy a starter, altenator, battery, control rods, and re-work the pre-rotator, and raise the seat. Add on the pounds means the 23 foot dragon wing will need to be replaced with larger ones. End the end, who knows how much money this will cost or if it is worth the additional weight.

B: Send the engine back, and have it rebuilt into a 2130cc (75 hp verses 60hp) and another wood 2 blade prop with more pitch. This is the $2200-$3000 range. This will cause a wieght increase but nothing will have to be changed mast or otherwise. Will the money be worth the power?

C: Since we going through the motions, the best of both worlds are available...Rebuild to a 2130cc and add a re-drive. 75hp on a 3 blade prop sounds good to me. But with this expense, I could probably just build another gyro.

I'm considering doing #1 and leave well enough alone and hope I don't blow the motor. This certainly hampers ideas of cross country because the heat make me worry after about 30 minutes of flying.

John-

rehler
04-03-2004, 10:38 AM
John, here is my 2 cents worth of advice:

The problem seems to be not enough thrust for the weight.

Cure 1 should be done to see how much help it will be.

Cure 2A will do a lot to increast thrust

Cure 2B will do less and would not be worth it unles you do 2C

Cure 2C is the best but it seems like a lot of money

Cure 3 might be worth considering: If you are not happy after Cure 1 sell it to a lighter pilot and start over with another new or used gyro - one with a reduction unit.

Chuck Irby
04-03-2004, 11:10 AM
Ken,

Help me with this thought, please. From day one, I have felt that John needed a bigger/more effecient rotor disk. Would this help, in your opinion?

Aussie_Paul
04-03-2004, 01:43 PM
I am with you Chuck.

John, just bite the bullet and get a longer hub bar, or 25' rotors.

Everything else will go away enough for you not to worry.

I have run a 5' hub bar on the 29' Oz blades that I first tried.

A longer hub bar is the cheapest and most sensible thing to do.

Then you can be flying and working on your next machine from what you have learnt with this one.

Just my experience speaking out not my interlectual capacity.

Aussie Paul.

Chuck Irby
04-03-2004, 03:50 PM
Thanx Paul. John has plenty of money, so he just needs to get a 25 foot set of Dragon wings. There's a way to keep them from hitting the ground, and as smart as John is, he'll figure it out.

Alan Uhr
04-03-2004, 05:36 PM
I am not an expert but: Sounds like your Prop Pitch is wrong. ie; If you are running a 52/36 you may need a 52/38 This will bring the engine RPMs down to where they should be. I use 10W50 Mobile in my Harley and it lowered the temp, might work for you. You could replace the engine jugs yourself to 94mm for larger displacement and it shouldn't cost more than a few hundred bucks.
Alan

scottessex
04-03-2004, 07:22 PM
John, sell your gyro to Stuart, He's light, and then buy the AirCommand with the suzuki engine on it, and you'll be in there!:D

Just kidding, I wish I could give you some good advice, I'll try to get ahold of you in the next few days. Later...

rehler
04-03-2004, 07:41 PM
Chuck,

I have always gone by this chart for rotor size:

http://www.skywheels.com/selection.html

According to it a 24' rotor should be good.

PW_Plack
04-03-2004, 09:15 PM
John, just curious...

If you're already revving higher than you should, why would you add a re-drive to the VW?

Pushers can be a challenge for air-cooled engines. I wonder if there isn't something to be done with ducting to get more air over the cylinders. In the car, that engine uses a shroud and a fan.

Chuck Irby
04-04-2004, 04:02 AM
Alan Uhr: Great reply to John's special situation.

Scott: Not a bad idea, really.

Ken: The chart is a nice guide for typical applications. In that John's is not a standard, run of the mill application, can you still see no validity to the use of a bigger, more efficient rotor disk?

P W: You made some good points also.

John: Try a set of 24' or 25' Dragon wings. I think it would be worth your trip to Bensen Days for that purpose alone. I will let you try my 24's. Ernie will let you try anything you want to. Then you'll know.

Brent_Brown
04-04-2004, 04:46 AM
I never did understand why KB said to use a 1835 VW when the 2180 is what it needs. I would 1. use an IR tach to get a reading off the prop to see if your tach is reading the same. 2 get a tach for the ac that can read over 4000 RPM a tiny tach is about 50 buck and can be mounted anywhere. I was having power trouble and found out I was 300 RPM low at the prop but max on the tach. This was all I need to get the power. 2 try the biger oil cooler. 3. See if it over heat whis a small pilot if not sell it to one.

If you go with a redrive now and change the mast and all just get a MZ202P motor or 582 rotax. We can use the VW on a tractor gyro this will keep it cool.

Screw
04-04-2004, 08:18 AM
I'm really not having any Rotor problems. The 24 Brock blades work great! Even floaty on landings. The only problem with the 24 is ground clearance. For this I've been told that, given my wieght and all, by Mike Boyette that a set of 23 Dragon Wings would be the ticket. Should like like the Brock 24 with the ground clearance of 23. I am also hoping the 23 foot DW will not work the motor so hard.

I am running a 52/28 prop. Maybe I should try a 52/30.

By addind a re/drive I can mount a larger 3 bladed prop and increase the trust without increasing engine RPR. But I don't even want to go there. I'd need a larger mast, control rods, starter, battery altinator. All that wieght. No thankyou.

I'm trying to find someone who can convert my existing motor to a 2130. I've even found on ebay Magnesium and aluminum cases:)

John-

Screw
04-06-2004, 05:57 AM
I found out for sure, that the company that built mine can increase the cc from 1835 to 2130 for $2300. That's shipped to them, rebuilt, test ran, and shipped back. Then, I'll have to buy a new prop, and remount.

I'm currently in the middle of replacing the oil cooler, and changing the oil to a synthetic 15-50. I've just bought a pair of 23' Dragon Wings.

If what I've already done doesn't keep her cool, I'll have to look at having that company rebuild to bigger cc.

John-

robertstodaro
04-06-2004, 08:53 AM
I had the exact same problem. I don't think your mast is tall enough for 25ft blades.
23ft McCutchen blades will help and raise you center of mass(a good thing.)

Eye brow scoops will cool your heads. Try twisting in your seat and you can drop 20deg.

robertstodaro
04-06-2004, 09:01 AM
my computer won't stay on long so I may make a few posts

Danny Whitten's machine, a Bond with an Aircommand fairing, 2100VW and 25 McCutch blades stays up with my 618 Dominator. Heres a pic

robertstodaro
04-06-2004, 09:17 AM
1835 cc heads are the largest jugs that you can put on your engine block. 2100 require a different block so you'er going with a completely different motor, as I recall.