taxiing without dual time

[robertstodaro]

If a newbie were taxiing without dual instruction, would give your opinion?

please go to GENERAL DICUSSION, thread MY FIRST TAXI and give your opinion, either way, thanks everybody

[Mike Schallmann]

Hey --since you ASKED --Im self taught ( In a Gyro)--- currently have nearly 500 Hrs in Gyros --

Maybe not the smartest thing to do --but everybody has to make their own determination as to their abilities -- I DONT RECOMMEND self training --but it CAN be done --my .02 worth...

[Rehan K.Janjua]

Hello Robert

I will certainly not recommend that you taxi for intend to eventually self learn to fly.
One has very few chances to succeed.
The passage of self taught could well be disastrous.
Take the rotor blades off and practice ground handling of a three wheeler
gokart.
Taxi or ground handling is the most difficult part of learning to fly a gyro.
You guys can easily find people and gyros to get a feel of gyro flight and touch, feel and learn.

Every couple of years I visit South Africa and get dual flying time. Correctional check rides. I enjoy flying, learn from the best and to be good at it. I am a gyropilot.

Take the move get some dual time. You will do your family and all of us on this forum a favor.
Because you mentioned, get ready for some straight and ruthless truth.
There are no old bold pilots, only old ones.
Best Wishes.
Rehan

[GyroRon]

Mike, did you ever mess up blades, or the gyro during your early days of learning to fly gyros?

[Mike Schallmann]

Ron

I never messed up anything when I was learning to fly a gyro --I crunched in after about 150 hrs -- I was involved in a bomb drop contest --I got behind the power curve --I was to low to the ground to recover--

For that reason I dont believe in ANY type of competition that occurs at low level in a gyro --bomb drops ,spot landings,shortest take offs --etc-- it is possible to get so involved in the competition that you forget the primary function of the pilot --that is FLY THE AIRCRAFT

Also FYI -- about half of our club members are self taught --to my knowledge NONE of them crunched anything during the training --and only one to my knowledge was killed after becoming proficient -- it was a PPO many years ago --before CLT machines became popular

[Harry_S.]

Ron boy...before you were born; out of necessity, back in the 60's, the guys with the gyro fever more or less were self taught. The only powered A/C for dual instruction were out of reach ($$) so you had to be self taught or have connections to a two seat towed glider for instruction. IMO, the two seat glider was the perfect tool for learning rotor control. And it was unquestionably...safe.

Transitioning to a powered machine was a huge undertaking. Only single seaters were to be had.

The gyronauts that survived the 60's and early 70's are to be and should be a proud group...whether they trashed components or not.


Cheers :)

[dabkb2]

I'm the one who talked tina into taxieing before dual training.I thought it would be a good head start to have some seat time,steering with the nose weel,learning the brakes,and to get a little bit comfortable with it. I told her to try to keep the blades as a disc so they would not flap and to go slow enough to keep the front wheel down. I taxied the machine and made sure that it handelled fine on the ground. this is what I was told and did before I got my dual traing and had no problems.Tina only taxies after I have taxied first and there is NO wind.

[Aussie_Paul]

Ron boy...before you were born; out of necessity, back in the 60's, the guys with the gyro fever more or less were self taught. The only powered A/C for dual instruction were out of reach ($$) so you had to be self taught or have connections to a two seat towed glider for instruction. IMO, the two seat glider was the perfect tool for learning rotor control. And it was unquestionably...safe.

Transitioning to a powered machine was a huge undertaking. Only single seaters were to be had.

The gyronauts that survived the 60's and early 70's are to be and should be a proud group...whether they trashed components or not.


Cheers :)

You are so right Harry, BUT that is what we HAD to do. It is different now with dual training availible.

I remember my Dad and I on the farm with the gyroglider in 1961. I was 12 years old and drove the car for Dad and then when he got going ok he drove the car for me. Then we towed the machine with the engine on it and finally the taxi runs gradually getting faster until balancing on the mains was ok. We then had to bite the bullet and do a hop. After many many many hours of hops it was time for a trip around the pattern.

I loved those days with my old man.:D

Aussie Paul.:)

[GyroRon]

Harry and Mike, I understand you did what you had to do. I understand it can be done as well.... I self taught myself to fly a taildragger plane, to fly off the water on floats under a plane and to fly sportman level aerobatics in a plane and taught myself to fly a powered parachute. I am proud of my being able to have done that as I am sure both of you are with gyros. But I think we can all agree that it is far more risky to do it the self taught way and can be far more expensive - for what it costs to replace those blades, both her and her father could get lots of hours of dual.

I just fear that something could happen. It does make me feel better knowing another experienced gyro person is there helping her as she does this.

[StanFoster]

I think that if one really takes their time....and get the feeling of the machine...then there should be no trouble learning how to taxi a gyro without instruction.

Heck...I bet its even possible to teach yourself to fly one....:D





Stan

[The Last Church]

I wonder if caster type wheels like on a gracery cart would prevent meny tip overs?

Serious some kind of wheel that rolls in any direction.

[The Last Church]

Hey --since you ASKED --Im self taught ( In a Gyro)--- currently have nearly 500 Hrs in Gyros --

Maybe not the smartest thing to do --but everybody has to make their own determination as to their abilities -- I DONT RECOMMEND self training --but it CAN be done --my .02 worth...

Then you don't think I am going to die trying to get it up and flying, like most people I talk to here. There are no instructors here. I have money for
new rotor blades. Hope I don't heed to buy them.
I have huge flat dry smooth lakes to use for runways.

.:confused:

[GyroRon]

Last Church.... I have read some of your early posts. You make no sence in your views on training. If you got the money to pay for lessons, drive to the nearest major airport and hop on a plane and go to where there is a instructor and take the lessons.

Dozens upon dozens of people have killed themselves trying to teach themselves to fly a gyro. A gyro is not the same as a airplane and there is modes of flight that once you enter you can not recover.

To take the risk of finding yourself in one of those modes without the training from a instructor, or the instructor there to prevent it from happening in the first place.... Well that is just plain stupid.

Again, anyone with any amount of common sence, who wants to live, and wants to fly a gyro, will do whatever it takes to get some instruction.

I am the most hard headed jackass you might ever meet. I taught myself to fly and do many many things, but I did not dare try to learn to fly gyros on my own.

[The Last Church]

Last Church....
To take the risk of finding yourself in one of those modes without the training from a instructor, or the instructor there to prevent it from happening in the first place.... Well that is just plain stupid.
I am the most hard headed jackass you might ever meet. I taught myself to fly and do many many things, but I did not dare try to learn to fly gyros on my own.

That is nice but why not talk about what to prevent instead of why no one can teach themselves to fly Gyro.
Instructors are nice but there are none here.

[chuter]

The way to prevent it; get training.

Your suggestion of putting castering wheels on the gyro so it wouldn't tip over shows you're not thinking clearly.

[The Last Church]

The way to prevent it; get training.

Your suggestion of putting castering wheels on the gyro so it wouldn't tip over shows you're not thinking clearly.

You reply shows you are not thinking. I suppose you think wings are a bad idea also. I think a casert type wheel would eliminate the resistance making the tip over less likely.

[scottessex]

If you are not going to take peoples advice, then stop asking stupid questions and go fly, then tell us all about it.

[GyroRon]

That is nice but why not talk about what to prevent instead of why no one can teach themselves to fly Gyro.
Instructors are nice but there are none here.


Church!!!! Are you listening? Follow this advise.

1. Get off the Rotaryforum

2. Contact Steve McGowan, or Gary Neal, or any of the 20 plus instructors that offer gyroplane dual instruction - if you need me to send you a email with their names and phone numbers I will gladly do so for you.

3. Make arrangements to take a week off work and to spend learning to fly gyros

4. Go to Expedia.com and book a airline ticket and hotel room and rental car at whatever major airport is closest to the instructor you choose.

5. Pack a suitcase with clothes and your toothbrush

6. Go to the instructor and learn to safely fly a gyro.



If you can not understand that this is what you need to do then I highly suggest you forget about gyros and focus on learning to fly a airplane or whatever else you can find instruction nearby in.

Countless scores of people who fly gyros have had to do the 6 things I listed above to learn to safely fly a gyro. Some of them had to do it over several trips. It is just life and we all learn to deal with it.

I am tempted to call you dumb or stupid for going on and on about this the way you have, but I know that is not the case. Dumb stupid people don't have the smarts to ask the questions to begin with. Do the right thing and get some training.

[Screw]

Screw-In

I recommend model aircraft. This way he won't kill himself trying to prove everyone else here wrong.

Screw-Out

[The Last Church]

If you are not going to take peoples advice, then stop asking stupid questions and go fly, then tell us all about it.

Well one has to listen to 80% crap to get the 20% good stuff. You know
you are in the 80%.

I do appreciate those in the 20% range.

[The Last Church]

Church!!!! Are you listening? Follow this advise.

1. Get off the Rotaryforum

Really is your click offended? Are you smart enough to know how to use the forum killfile.....NO.. Then what good is your advice. Most everything you
put forward so far truns out to be wrong.

2. Contact Steve McGowan, or Gary Neal, or any of the 20 plus instructors that offer gyroplane dual instruction - if you need me to send you a email with their names and phone numbers I will gladly do so for you.


Sure anyone you can get to come to Goldfield is welcome.

3. Make arrangements to take a week off work and to spend learning to fly gyros

I am rich enough not to have to work any more.

4. Go to Expedia.com and book a airline ticket and hotel room and rental car at whatever major airport is closest to the instructor you choose.

I choose the one who comes to where I am.

5. Pack a suitcase with clothes and your toothbrush

6. Go to the instructor and learn to safely fly a gyro.

YOur advice is as useless as your wit is dull.




Countless scores of people who fly gyros have had to do the 6 things I listed above to learn to safely fly a gyro. Some of them had to do it over several trips. It is just life and we all learn to deal with it.


It's a cold hard fact that the majourity is wrong about almost everything.

I am tempted to call you dumb or stupid for going on and on about this the way you have, but I know that is not the case. Dumb stupid people don't have the smarts to ask the questions to begin with. Do the right thing and get some training.

Do the right thing an learn to use your forum killfile. One never gets smart
until they know how stupid they are and I can see you are a slow learner.

[The Last Church]

Screw-In

I recommend model aircraft. This way he won't kill himself trying to prove everyone else here wrong.

Screw-Out

You prove that everytime you post. No need for me to get in your way.

[bones]

Bloody hell fellas, you got him over here and on the oz site we get bob,
Arent we all sooooo lucky, or is it the one guy trying to out smart all us dumb arses that can actually FLY these wonderful little machines..

[The Last Church]

[QUOTE=bones]__________________
Mark
I'm not an alcoholic, i'm a drunk, QUOTE]

Then you understand your problem.

[bones]

[QUOTE=bones]__________________
Mark
I'm not an alcoholic, i'm a drunk, QUOTE]

Then you understand your problem.
Bloody hell if thats the best you got, stop it you'll hurt my feelings....:rolleyes:
You know people like you and Bob are a danger, sadly not only to yourselves but to others around you, but you wont want to listen to us dumb people and like John said go and try to fly the bloody thing and get it over with then.....

[Doug Riley]

If one really wants to go it alone, then he needs to follow the Bensen method to the letter.

Brace yourself, it's a long road and a lot of rigamarole.

Start with the Bensen gyroglider manual. It has instructions for building the unpowered gyroglider, of course. It also shows how to use your 'glider frame to build an indoor static trainer with a few extra bits that you can get at a junkyard. Working that static trainer, indoors with no rotor, is the first step.

Next you take the static trainer outdoors and mount the rotor. Operate it in a breeze fast enough to get the rotor going, but not flying. The trainer features a gimbal joint under the keel that allows you to feel the frame's reactions even though you're not off the ground.

Next, still without an engine, you tow the gyro with a rope behind a car in ZERO wind. This is when it gets exciting. Gyrogliding is great fun but, beware, even at this stage people have been killed. The machine always points toward the car, so if you happen to put it down when it's not centered, you will roll it and be dragged until the car can stop.

You can combine these first three steps if you build a boom trainer. This replaces the tow rope with a rigid boom attached to the car -- and, yes, it has castering wheels. They are feasible in this controlled environment.

After a season or two in unpowered flight, you can install your engine and begin steering practice, followed by nosewheel lifts, crow hops, runway flights and S-turns over the runway. You can expect to spend another season just doing runway work of that sort before flying the pattern.

I spent two full years (roughly 100 flight hours) doing these steps before hitting the pattern the first time. Good thing, too, because I had an engine-out in my second session of flying at pattern altitude.

The point of all this drivel is that REAL self-training is a systematic series of baby steps. It takes forever, is still risky and is a pain in the butt. Jumping onto a powered machine and "going for it" is NOT self-training, it's just an uncontrolled, irresponsible game of blind chance, in the same vein as Russian roulette.

[chuter]

Church said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuter
The way to prevent it; get training.

Your suggestion of putting castering wheels on the gyro so it wouldn't tip over shows you're not thinking clearly.


You reply shows you are not thinking. I suppose you think wings are a bad idea also. I think a casert type wheel would eliminate the resistance making the tip over less likely.


You're right; free-castering wheels on all landing gear would be a good idea for you. Then you wouldn't be able to taxi in a straight line far enough to get airspeed to leave the ground. Yeah, I would say do that.

Of course you'd still tip over when you went off the side of the runway and hit turf.

[MrGrey]

Is this Church guy for real? I pray that you come to your senses and get some training. If you have never been in a gyro and are planning to fly the widow maker please dont take a passenger or fly where there is anybody around where someone could get hurt. Common sense says get some training so you can live long enought to enjoy flight. If you are bold enough to buck the gentlemen that have given you the best advice available please discontinue to use the forum because you already have all the answers regarding how to fly. It makes alot of us nervous hearing about someone who has decided to take your course of actions. We dont want to hear about your death.

[Screw]

Screw-In

Church Dude....No one on hear wants to see or hear of anyone getting hurt or killed in our wonderful sport. This is why Chuter, myself, Scott, GyroRon and a host of others are trying warn you. This isn't a spectator sport. People do die as a result of pilot error.

The best way "WE" know how to reduce pilot error is to train and educate people interested in our sport. The problem is, folks like you have a "Big Idea" they wanna try. When they incounter opposition, they will recluse themselves and lash out at everyone.

You may be going though all of this brain damage for nothing. This is one of those aircraft sports that not everyone can do. There are fixed wing pilots who cannot grasp the concept of flying gyros.

You are demonstraighting a lack of "Common Sence" that is making me LMAO.

Screw-Out

[automan1223]

Ron boy...before you were born; out of necessity, back in the 60's, the guys with the gyro fever more or less were self taught. The only powered A/C for dual instruction were out of reach ($$) so you had to be self taught or have connections to a two seat towed glider for instruction. IMO, the two seat glider was the perfect tool for learning rotor control. And it was unquestionably...safe.

Transitioning to a powered machine was a huge undertaking. Only single seaters were to be had.

The gyronauts that survived the 60's and early 70's are to be and should be a proud group...whether they trashed components or not.


Cheers :)


my 2.0cents. The local pilots, and older timers all gave up on gyros way back in the day after the destruction and rebuilding some 6-7 times. The last incident being a serious one. That is why I was not warmly greeted here when I talked gyros. Now with 2pl machines there is no excuse to get training.

Jonathan.

[Joe Pires]

I went to the NTSB accident site to review gyro deaths from 1999 forward. I sorted for fatalities. What I found is that the most common reason stated was lack of or very low training with pilot error as a close second. It is not a question of whether or not it can be learned without training it is a question of are you willing to pay the price (extra risk of death). For me its a pretty easy decision.

[Cobra Doc]

There has been a lot of research done on this Forum:

http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2949&highlight=NTSB+accident

[The Last Church]

If one really wants to go it alone, then he needs to follow the Bensen method to the letter.
Start with the Bensen gyroglider manual. You can combine these first three steps if you build a boom trainer. This replaces the tow rope with a rigid boom attached to the car -- and, yes, it has castering wheels.
.

Now that was some useful information and I have several books like the Gyro flight manual. But I haven't got tw2 years and think two months will do it as I have all day everyday to play with it.

[The Last Church]

I went to the NTSB accident site to review gyro deaths from 1999 forward. I sorted for fatalities. What I found is that the most common reason stated was lack of or very low training with pilot error as a close second. It is not a question of whether or not it can be learned without training it is a question of are you willing to pay the price (extra risk of death). For me its a pretty easy decision.

What would be the URL for NTSB? The Price, yes when I dance I always
pay the fiddler and at my age Death is nothing to fear.

[The Last Church]

Is this Church guy for real? I pray that you come to your senses and get some training. If you have never been in a gyro and are planning to fly the widow maker please dont take a passenger or fly where there is anybody around where someone could get hurt. Common sense says get some training so you can live long enought to enjoy flight. If you are bold enough to buck the gentlemen that have given you the best advice available please discontinue to use the forum because you already have all the answers regarding how to fly. It makes alot of us nervous hearing about someone who has decided to take your course of actions. We dont want to hear about your death.

Don't worry no one will here of my death. There is no one here for 10.000 acres. I think I have the room. Dry flat lake beds are every where. The only passenger is my cooler.
Still I would be willing to pay some instructor to come here. Its a great place for a fly in. Is there anyone you know willing to come help me? No. WEll so much fo9r the good old boy buddy system.
It is my life and I do live it like a ball of fire running desert roads at 90 and 100 mph in a 4x4 hopped up bronco. I ain't dead yet but no one gets out of this life alive so why bitch. You know the spice of life is the gamble.
There are no grand kids of kids or any people that would be hurt if I fell off a cliff. If I did crash all any one would find is a Gyro. The Coyotes clean up
any meat in less than a week leaving no trace of anything.
It's my life and I am a free man. I wouldn't tell if you don't.;)

[The Last Church]

Screw-In

Church Dude....No one on hear wants to see or hear of anyone getting hurt or killed in our wonderful sport. Screw-Out


You don't own the sport any more than you own me. It is not your wonderful
sport. Its a build it in the garage and if you got the guts put your but in the chair and fly. it's a poor mans flight path. Get out of the way or add something that helps.:)

[scottessex]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Screw]

Screw-In

You don't own the sport any more than you own me. It is not your wonderful
sport. Its a build it in the garage and if you got the guts put your but in the chair and fly. it's a poor mans flight path. Get out of the way or add something that helps.:)

You have some strange perceptions about this sport and the people in it.

Screw-Out

[ultracruiser41]

Mr. Church,

I've followed this thread and you've accomplished bashing several of the best GyroPilots I've ever met! I've listened and learned from each of them and I'm glad to say..they're always around to tell(yell) at me if I do something stupid.

The whole attitude of "I ain't dead yet" and "No one to miss me" crap is just that ...crap! We're all hear to watch out for each other and to promote the safe sport of GyroFlying. Attitudes like yours are setting us back 20 years!

You'd think that with a name that has "Church" in it...you'd have a little more common sense but I guess that's something you develope over time..or not!

Get training or get off the forum and do it your way! I'll send flowers!


Barry (now you can vent on me!) K
[the still alive gyro pilot!]

[GyroRon]

How much are you willing to pay to have a instructor come to you with his machine and give you lessons?

[automan1223]

Or you need to be aware of how many people we read about, that are no longer here.

But of course you are somehow different....

That is the real sober time. Going thru your photo picture files and knowing a lot of those people are no longer with us.

Jonathan

[RICK MARTIN]

Doug, you are an angelically patient man. By the way, I've warmed up the seat for you.

[The Last Church]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now is that any way to talk to mr Benson or Benjiman Franklin? Or is it you
in the corner

[The Last Church]

Or you need to be aware of how many people we read about, that are no longer here.

But of course you are somehow different....

That is the real sober time. Going thru your photo picture files and knowing a lot of those people are no longer with us.

Jonathan

I wouldn't say I was any different. Other than you will not be reading about me. I have had friends drop dead in the front yard. Should I get rid of the front yard? It's not how you die that matters but how you lived.
I don't really see much problem as long as you keep the Rotor loaded. I have gotten off motorcycles at 80 mph with only a broken wrist. The landing speed of a Gyro makes it pretty safe in my book. When I die I want to be sure I am having fun doing it. My bike goes 160 mph and I am not dead yet.
There are thousands of ways to die, pick one.

[bones]

I don't really see much problem as long as you keep the Rotor loaded. I have gotten off motorcycles at 80 mph with only a broken wrist.
There are thousands of ways to die, pick one.
Ohhhh boy does this tell what type of a d*ckhead you guys are trying to help:mad:
Orrr well its over for me not replying to this thread any more, he's too good for me..:cool:

[ultracruiser41]

Visit Last Church website...that'll explain alot!