Answered my own Question

[The Last Church]

The Question was why can't they make a gyro hover and do it cheap.
Answer, they can and do,see picture.

[Dean_Dolph]

Don't think so! If this is what it appears then I'll let the true historians on here tell you what you are seeing. I do know those cheek plates are scary which is something I never paid much attention too before.

[Timchick]

Michael,
Have at it. If you can make it better than those who have tried before more power to you.

[The Last Church]

Don't think so! If this is what it appears then I'll let the true historians on here tell you what you are seeing..

The artical with it told me what it was. It is a small engine powered Rotor.

[scottessex]

Michael, How many hour in gyro's do you have? other aircraft? are you an engineer?
Just asking, every couple of months someone who has never flown, or never had and aircraft experience comes along here and wants to re-invent the wheel.
Maybe you have hit on something that all the pioneers for the last hundred years overlooked.
A gyro is NOT a helicopter,
Build a prototype and fly it, then we will all eat crow, but untill then, don't you think that someone has tried all this before?
Yes there are gyro's that can jump takeoff etc. That is what Bensens powered rotor was for, very short takeoff.
Once you add all the crap required for this and that the aircraft gets so heavy it is a pig, or changed so much that it is no longer what was intended.
A gyro is simple and works, helicopters are expensive and complicated, the only similarity is that they use a spinning rotor.

Motorcycles are simple machines, add all sorts of other comforts, extra wheels for stability, seats for passengers, cabin for all weather, etc. and you end up with a car, see my point?
But keep trying, you may invent the thing that revolutionizes aviation in the 21st century.

[gyromike]

That picture is of a prerotator. It'll spin the blades up enough to shorten the takeoff roll, but it won't hover.

The Mosquito helicopter is a true ultralight helicopter, and it still takes 60hp to hover. You'll never hover with a chainsaw motor.

By the time you figure out how to make a gyro hover, you will have designed a helicopter...with all of the cost and complexity involved.

[gyroparts]

Use to see those on the Bensen designs of the 60's and early 70's. Mike is right, it is just a prerotator. Nowhere near enough power to fly on.

[CopterBob]

...and then there's the small matter of no tail rotor

[Rehan K.Janjua]

Thankyou Scott.

[Phil_Ruffin]

Changed my mind, not worth it! So I will also just say...Thankyou Scott.

[The Last Church]

Michael, How many hour in gyro's do you have? other aircraft? are you an engineer? I am more important than you are.I am smarter than you are. I know everything about everything. Our Gyros, all Gyros belong to us,(me) I am the king of all things.

What was not possible yesterday will always be possible today or tomorrow. Things change.

A moron can say something totally stupid that makes a spark in the mind of genius who can make it work. If it were not for people doing what everyone else thinks impossible you would not be flying at all.

I see no reason a gyro can't hover, even if its just a lawn mower on top of the rotor, That only gives you 3 minuets.
Some one has done it or will do it again. If you like the box you think in stay there. I am sure nothing will change in your life time.
Usually if you think of something and look around you will find some one is already doing it.
Ducted fans on the pusher is already a reality.

.

[Papa Smurf]

Ugh!.. The physical laws can not be changed no matter how hard we wish or dream.

[Desert Flyer]

Some random thoughts from another desert dweller...

In theory, you could achieve the ability to hover without a tail rotor by having jet (or rocket) engines on the tips of the rotor blades. To see an example, go to Vortech's website and look at the detail for the KESTRAL helicopter kit:

http://www.vortechonline.com/kits/

However, as a general observation from someone who isn't formally educated in aeronautical engineering, I think putting jet or rocket engines on the tips of a gyro's rotor blades could cause problems due to extra weight and such.

Another point to consider is that these types of helicopters don't seem to be very popular. I remember reading about them in Vortech's books when I was about 10 years old (25 years ago) and I have never heard of anyone building or flying one. Is there a reason?

Does anyone here know of any tip-powered helicopters being built and flown?

[scottessex]

Originally Posted by scottessex
Michael, How many hour in gyro's do you have? other aircraft? are you an engineer? I am more important than you are.I am smarter than you are. I know everything about everything. Our Gyros, all Gyros belong to us,(me) I am the king of all things.

What was not possible yesterday will always be possible today or tomorrow. Things change.

A moron can say something totally stupid that makes a spark in the mind of genius who can make it work. If it were not for people doing what everyone else thinks impossible you would not be flying at all.

I see no reason a gyro can't hover, even if its just a lawn mower on top of the rotor, That only gives you 3 minuets.
Some one has done it or will do it again. If you like the box you think in stay there. I am sure nothing will change in your life time.
Usually if you think of something and look around you will find some one is already doing it.
Ducted fans on the pusher is already a reality.

Ahh you figured me out,
I've learned a few things from morons over my lifetime, Don't be a Moron comes to mind.

I have a lawn boy and a murray, which one do you want for your hovering gyro? I'll ship it collect. Regards.

[Screw]

Screw-In

I gyro can hover guys! You just have to fly in enough headwind so that you maintain minimum flight speed. Even on a calm day, you can typically hover for a second or two, and then a sweet gentle decent. Add a spin on the way down and you've got the Ron Awad "Death Spin!"

I think what my friend, Scott Essex, was trying to say is..... "Any aircraft that has a rotor with enough power going to that rotor to maintain flight or hover...... is called a helicopter."

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[GyroRon]

??? Spell check needed... Spell check needed! :)

[Screw]

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Sorry Ran....I mean Ron. I've been drinkin againnnnnnnnnn. My fingers are starting to slurrrrr.

Scott! I thought I waz your "Lawn Boy." Would really ship me???????? Collect!!!!!!!!

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[Phil_Ruffin]

Originally Posted by scottessex

Michael, How many hour in gyro's do you have? other aircraft? are you an engineer? I am more important than you are.I am smarter than you are. I know everything about everything. Our Gyros, all Gyros belong to us,(me) I am the king of all things.


I see your interpretation of what Scott posted,the bible, Matthew 6 and 23, according to your last church web site and your signature all share the same qualities.

Their Wrong!

[Screw]

Screw-In

Last Church Dude..........That quote was not what Scott said, and that wasn't cool.

Good luck finding someone who will help you with definitions for "Flying Things" while you check your prescriptions.

Your week attempt of discrediting someone with merit is childish.

Good Luck.

Screw-Out

[pwendell]

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Last Church Dude..........That quote was not what Scott said, and that wasn't cool.

Good luck finding someone who will help you with definitions for "Flying Things" while you check your prescriptions.

Your week attempt of discrediting someone with merit is childish.

Good Luck.

Screw-Out

Absolutely, it is VERY poor form to misquote someone else intentionally, particularly when trying to deride them.

Last Church, please don't do it again.

[The Last Church]

Ahh you figured me out,
I've learned a few things from morons over my lifetime, Don't be a Moron comes to mind.

I have a lawn boy and a murray, which one do you want for your hovering gyro? I'll ship it collect. Regards.

I sure would like the lawn boy...

[The Last Church]

Screw-In

Last Church Dude..........That quote was not what Scott said, and that wasn't cool.
Your week attempt of discrediting someone with merit is childish.
Good Luck.
Screw-Out

I did not attempt to discredit anyone. I just thought he didn't know what he was saying. Sort of like you.

[brett s]

So, everybody that doesn't agree with your obviously ill-informed statements is wrong?

Believe it or not, many of the people that post here have actually built & flown gyros or helicopters. It's rather obvious that you haven't, and have no clue about the underlying principles...

[KenSandyEggo]

Do I smell a troll?

[Doug Riley]

The others are right -- the photo is of a Bensen "putt-putt" prerotator. The production model used a 1 hp Ohlsson-Rice 2-stroke engine (about the size seen on concrete finishers). It was good for 125 static RRPM or so; a Bensen rotor's flight RPM is near 400.

One of the guys who used to participate in on-line gyro discussions (but has drifted away) was a very clever fellow named Craig Wall. He had an expression that nicely summed up the learning process of gyro newbees: getting calibrated.

By "calibrated" he meant getting a feel for the scale, proportion or typical range of things. You can't do that very well reading books or even online discussions. Hanging around gyros in the flesh, flying in a few, working on a few, seem to be necessary for most people to get a feel for what works and what doesn't.

Of course you can make a rotorcraft hover by attaching a big enough engine to a Bensen-style rotor head. It's been done. The horsepower needed is on the order of 40 or so... some lawnmower engine. You need a finely controllable source of counter-torque to keep the body from spinning; an uncontrollable source such as a little rocket won't cut it.

The blade pitch setting needed for efficient hovering is different than that for efficient autorotating. Trying to hover on autorotative pitch is going to waste lots of power. You really need collective pitch for reasonable efficiency. That adds complexity and a few extra things to fail on you.

Jump takeoff gyros such as Dick DeGraw's or the Air and Space 18A not only hover for a moment, but climb vertically for a short distance, using the stored "flywheel" energy in the rotor. Collective pitch, as well as a powerful prerotator, are a must to pull this off.

Overspeeding the rotor for a momentary hover, even without collective pitch, is a standard advanced maneuver in gyros. The overspeed is usually accomplished by pulling a hard banked turn. You can see this done at most gyro flyins... which are an ideal place to get calibrated.

[The Last Church]

So, everybody that doesn't agree with your obviously ill-informed statements ..

There are better things to do than argue about anything.

[The Last Church]

Jump takeoff gyros such as Dick DeGraw's or the Air and Space 18A not only hover for a moment, but climb vertically for a short distance, using the stored "flywheel" energy in the rotor. Collective pitch, as well as a powerful prerotator, are a must to pull this off.

Overspeeding the rotor fo a momentary hover, even without collective pitch, is a standard advanced maneuver in gyros. The overspeed is usually accomplished by pulling a hard banked turn. You can see this done at most gyro flyins... which are an ideal place to get calibrated.

Yes that is what I was getting at. Thank you for putting it in words easy to understand.

.

[Cobra Doc]

Nice pic of Schramm's Helicycle, but it is a compound helicopter, not a gyro. Unfortunately, BJ is another great guy that is no longer with us. It does make you wonder....never mind, differential thrust steering could conceiveably overcome rotor torque but you would still be flying forward. The simple fact is that a gyro is not a helicopter. If you go back and take a hard look at the gyro-jeep, that just hapens to be a gyroglider, notice the tow line. The only power on the intial desgn was to the wheels. Strictly a vehicle combat insertion concept, nothing else.

[chuter]

I would say that most of what can be done with current technology has been tried.

There would need to be a radical improvement in one or more of the underlying technologies (lighter materials, higher hp/weight power plant, etc) before you’re going to see any “new” designs or ideas come to fruition.

[The Last Church]

Strictly a vehicle combat insertion concept, nothing else.

Well I think my truck should have one. It might improve the milage.

[Cobra Doc]

What we might see, very soon, is very light weight tip-weighted blades.

[scottessex]

Gee, like dragon wings??

[The Last Church]

What we might see, very soon, is very light weight tip-weighted blades.
How does that effect things?

[Screw]

Screw-In

Gee, like dragon wings??


Now Scott! You know you don't know what your talking about.:rolleyes:

I would answer his question, but then again, what would I know.:p I just fly these freakin things. We need an engineer on this thread. Simple folk aren't good enough.

Where's Chuck E. when you need him?

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[pwendell]

The Last Church has just gone on my ignore list. He's only the second entry in over two years. Life is just too short.

[Screw]

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The Last Church has just gone on my ignore list. He's only the second entry in over two years. Life is just too short.


Who was the first?:D

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[pwendell]

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Who was the first?:D

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Bill, the Troll that showed up about 2 years ago. He hasn't posted in a very long time. :D

[Screw]

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I remember Bill. What a hoot! I Wonder if this guy is really Bill? Naw, there is more than one "Nut Case" in the world I'm sure.

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[Cobra Doc]

Michael,
Tie a rock to string. Hold the rock and swing the string. Now turn it around and hold the string and swing the rock.