Little Wing Booster Progress.... [Archive]

mcbirdman

04-13-2004, 02:06 PM

Hi Don,

I heard you might stop by after the meeting in Valspiro (sp?). The credit for progress and the quality that you saw in the parts really is a tribute to the exacting expertise of our engineering department head Richard Lidke. He knows metal and makes it look easy. He started laying out the jigs in November and after a visit up to see my single place little wing said you know.... It isn't that hard to make the parts for one more since it is mostly in the setup...... So here I am building a second Little Wing before I have finished the first. The opportunity that he has offered has slowed down the first but I always wanted a two place anyway..

The three of us work at different times of the week but we are always moving ahead. We are going to get this done and it isn't going to take years....

I will post a few photos but realize this.... I am a proffesional photographer but when I am not "on the job I often use this little camera with all automatic features and so if the photos are blurry it is because there is no focus and much limitation. I just let it do what it wants and I can't help it. I do actually shoot better than these show....

Well, lets see if they post. There will be a few overall, some parts such as the landing gear for all 3, the many tabs that have to be cut, brackets etc. Notice the big crane he built so that we can hang test (lol) It is on a track that lets it roll the length of the barn.
I think it is so great and we are enjoying the build as we are learning and accomplishing something I think is historic. Anyone seen 3 Little Wings built in production before? Thanks again, if anyone has any questions we probably don't know but can ask (lol) jtm

mcbirdman

04-13-2004, 02:19 PM

Richard - the man who started this group for our addiction I mean application

mcbirdman

04-13-2004, 02:22 PM

Some more photos lw

gyroblackwell

04-13-2004, 08:05 PM

Hay James,

I also got a chance to take a look-see at your (groups) work! Nice craftsmenship!
To see the fuselage up on the table is truely a site to behold (gave me goose bumps)
(or maybe it was just damn cold !) you guys keep up the good work, and we look forward to seeing a rolling frame at the July fly-in!

Tim

donshoebridge

04-14-2004, 04:27 AM

Hey Tim,

You need to put a link to MAC, and your MAC title in your signature.

Keep us posted James.

Don

gyroblackwell

04-14-2004, 04:55 AM

Hay Don

Now why would I want to give out that info? ;)

I don't think I have that kind of room.... but I'll try!

mcbirdman

04-14-2004, 07:58 PM

Hi Tim,

It is really neat to see the tables all layed out with the blocks. There was alot of time just in the setup of these jigs that Rich accomplished. We keep cutting the parts he needs and pushing ahead.

I ordered the rest of the tubing for the 2nd and 3rd airframe several weeks ago from Dillsburg Penn. After waiting I called them to find out if he had actually sent out the order that he said he was going to work on "beginning of the week". I then got told after those weeks that it would be maybe a month before I would get the metal and he wouldn't even promise that.

It made me mad that he said he would get it packed up first of the week and after a couple weeks I have to call and then say that he is so backed up and that he is SO busy. He told me that he could cancel the order if I wanted as long as it hasn't been started and then wanted to know if he could get off the phone now (my long distance) because he has other things to do like help the people who drove to his place and are picking out their orders....etc.... It is very frustrating because we invested the time and he never bothered to tell me how far behind he was and that to cancel could cause an even longer wait as we start all over again.

It is also very frustrating that he didn't care whether we cancelled or not and was more interested in serving other people that he did not already have an agreement with. It didn't reinforce the statement in his price list that speaks of priding himself on "serving us honestly and efficiently."

He had all the reasons for why he operating this way and none of it was his fault or his own doing. Not even a sorry. I think it is a sorry way to operate.

Anyway, until we can get some more tubing we cannot start the layout of the second and third set of frames. I thought we were ordering enough tubing to matter but I guess not. In the mean time we are just trying to keep busy as there is still alot we can do.

Thanks for your interest Tim and Don, it is exciting for us also. The goose bumps we had were from working this winter in the pole barn at like 26 degrees or so..... Now, with the improved climatic conditions production should also improve. Thanks again, jtm

gyroblackwell

04-15-2004, 05:13 AM

James,

I know what you mean about Dillsburg. I had the same kind of "run-in" with him. Bottom line is, he has the corner on the chrome-molly tubing market cause most of the major aircraft grade tubing manufactures have stopped making the material. This guy has a huge stock-pile of the material, and now is enjoying "running the show". He decides who, when, how, and how long.
I asked him why he did not have a website for ordering material, and he went off on me, got real nasty and threatend to cancel my order.

lesson learned .... I simply appologiesed for the comment, and made sure my material was still being sent - when-ever - !

aircraft grade tubing is going to get real scarce real soon!

enjoy the build! :)

mcbirdman

04-15-2004, 02:16 PM

Well Tim,

Thinking about your post and the steel situation I was a little anxious and a little hesitant to call and ask about my shipment. I was surprised to learn that he actually just sent it out yesterday. He said he had some labor/sickness problems but he did get it out. I am sure glad that I am through "that" Bob Randall 2of3 builder and I were looking at taking the 10-12 hour trip down there to make sure we got it and were just trying to find out how close he was to shipping. I am pretty sure it will show up next few days which will put production back to the pace we are hoping to be. (whatever that really is lol) jtm

scottessex

04-16-2004, 05:23 AM

have you tried these guys?
http://www.twmetals.com/

That's Our supplier, (Delta Airlines) and I know that we still get 4130 chro mo. If that is the same grade that you need.

mcbirdman

04-16-2004, 07:55 PM

Hi Scott,

Hopefully it won't matter about the 4130. We ordered about 950$ worth of it and should be enough to finish the two other frames. We only had to order some material for 2/3 because bob had already started a kit he never finished. 3/3 was the main shipment and a few parts for 1/3. We figure if we at least get the bulk of the metal if we find any shortages or make a mistake it will not put us far behind. Thanks for the link though scott it still may come in handy. jtm

mcbirdman

05-02-2004, 09:13 AM

Rich and I made a bit of progress again. We cutout the 3 sets of torque tube asemblies. There were 3 -1'" tubes for each unit that were staggered for the two joysticks and 4 diamond shapes of metal patches on each for the joints. When we tacked it all together we added the upper bushings for each joystick. All 3 sets are now over in finish welding department.

We also cut out 2 (x3) fittings that recieve the stab when it is slid into the airframe.

We cutout a piece that is U shaped that connects the spring to the tailwheel and the rudder. We made it thicker than specs due to the fact we noticed on my single place it seems to have bent toward the spring pull a bit.

It doesn't seem like much going on when you look at the shop overall since we just have the two sides up on the vertical jig and the start of the 3rd of 6 sideframes just sitting there being fitted in the jig. But we need all these small pieces so they are ready when it comes time to use them on the frame. I guess we look at it like we are building up inventory so we will have the "kit" ready for assembly.

Anyway, I feel great progress was made this time. Last week we recieved the final big shipment of tubing as per parts list. I sat down to make the torque tubes and found out that the roughtly 4 foot of 1" x .49 and the 1 foot of 7/8 x .049 that was needed was not on the parts list. That is too bad since I just had a truck shipment bring everything we needed as per parts list. The good news is that everytime we notice these oversights we are writing them down so that it will improve things for everyone in the future not only in regards to delays and frustration but to wasted money in repeated shipping and packaging costs as it is adding up. These things are realatively minor problems in comparison to the activity and enjoyment that also accompany owning such an aircraft and will soon be in the past. Part of the sweat equity that is placed into something we love to do

Thats it for now, next weekend is marathon work time again.... jtm

richard lidke

06-10-2004, 02:37 PM

Just so everyone out there is aware, we are saving nicely on the price of the wheel/brake kit by purchasing in threes. We have gotten over 15 per cent off, and free frieght by checking around and requesting bids in groups of three sets of everything. It pays to team effort this project. Rich Lidke

mcbirdman

06-13-2004, 09:14 PM

Progress as of 6-14-04. Sunday I made the trip down to Indiana ready to meet up with Rich and Bob today. It isn't often that the three of us are together all at once. Rich and I were working the morning shift when we heard a loud engine coming closer. All I saw out the pole barn doors was a flash of yellow and Bobs Sportster Harley as it went past the side door.

After a briefing of progress we all started to work. As it became lunch hour the morning shift ran into town for a quick bite while Bob (Welding Dept.) who had already ate - tack welded the 3rd side frame that was finished by the morning shift. Actually, we had a lot of it done from last week but it needed a few more pieces.

By the time we returned from lunch Bob was ready to heat up Number one's 2 side frames and draw the them together to a point aft to complete the joining of the tail. With Rich overseeing the taper, they were welded together. I kept working on another side frame and my goal was to get another tacked before I had to head home. We accomplished that and are excited because we are getting good at putting pieces together and working together. Even though we have a fairly big pole barn - we use many of the same tools and have to walk around each other a lot. It really has been working well though because we only have to more side frames to make. We have 4 out of 6 tacked now.

Rich has some of the cross members in place and the cross tubes/attatchment points in place including upper braces. He has made the pedastal for the torque tube and the brackets for the brake cylinders have been tacked in place. We are placing our order for the 3 sets of brakes now that everyone has paid and expect that to be ordered this week. We need to get the parts so we can check the layout and fit of the componants. Probably while we are waiting we can start looking at the tubing that needs to form the top edges from the tailpost up to the rear cross piece.

Anyway, I just thought I would update you on progress so that you might know the time it is taking to build these birds. We are actually enjoying ourselves during the build a lot more than you might think. Rich had worked on the project yesterday and had to get some lawn work completed. Imagine Bob and I sneaking up on Rich and passing him as he mowed while we were running the frame by him and waving out the window as we passed him. Bob was "driving" and I must say that he made a 180 turn in about 16 feet that whipped me around so I think the frames know there is no FW here....... I think this gyro thing is going to work out just fine..... lol

I can hardly believe the progress we made today. I knew it would be a lot of small part making before anyone could really see what is going on but now we can see it happening. Bob also finish welded the 3 folding seats while we were fitting tubing.

Anyway, that is the progress so far. It does take commitment but I can see it all coming together and it doesn't seem so hard as it once did. jtm

Aussie_Paul

06-13-2004, 11:51 PM

Great James, thanks for the up date.

Aussie Paul.

RHerron

06-17-2004, 07:02 PM

Just to keep everyone updated,
the FAI just ratified the Little Wing Distance-without-landing world record claim at 617.19 miles.

Rotornut

06-18-2004, 04:44 AM

Thanks Ron for updating us. Wow Great Job. MJ :)

barnstorm2

06-18-2004, 05:00 AM

Excellent! I loved the stories in ROTORCRAFT. Of course I am bias toward one of them :)

mcbirdman

06-22-2004, 12:31 PM

Another Sunday of work. All three of us were in the shop again. Rich has the first set of frames tacked up with the crosspieces and is working on the supports for the upper vertical tail structure. He has done alot to the frame and is working out brake pedal tabs and cross bars between the frames. I will get some photos next time of frame.

I was able to make another side frame and get it tacked today so it makes only one more side frame for me to go ! 5 out of 6 tack welded.

Bob went to work trying to get the pedals worked out so they will fit without rubbing on the inside frame when being used. We also decided to move the cable for the heel brake front seat down through the floor ( outside airframe, hidden by the landing gear) so that the cable will not be in the way during passenger egress.
Anyway, here is a photo of the 12 pedals and one of Bob after getting the last one done. We are having fun and if we keep up this rate we will have at least one rolling frame to bring to Mentone if anyone is interested.

Aussie_Paul

06-22-2004, 03:15 PM

Wow!!! You guys are sure getting into it, and it seems to me, making great progress.

Aussie Paul.

mcbirdman

06-22-2004, 06:28 PM

Thanks Paul !

It seemed like all we were doing was making small parts and Rich already had a start on making some (x3). Rich was talking about how well it has been working out. We all just do what we can and see all of them moving forward. Now Rich is feeling like he has to get his off the vertical jig because the other ones are right behind. All I wanted to do is catch up to him.

We order parts and then each sign off on the invoices as we see them and pay each other. It saves on shipping and having to find the part and order it 3 times, making things seem a little less difficult.

Rich is the first frame out and Bob and I are just working on two frames til they get done. This is only the second time we were in full production with all 3 people working. Last week we had 2 working in the morning and then second shift had 3. This week we had 2 in the morning shift, 3 afternoon and 1 stayed late to finish up a frame. I guess this means we have worked all shifts.. lol We all have mini goals and it really has been fufilling to not be alone and share the joy of seeing these things come to life. When we shut down and (we always cover the tables with plastic) we pulled the cover over Rich's frame. With the tailpost and crosstubes you could finally see that it looked like an airframe sitting there under the covers.

I have really enjoyed the build so far and it couldn't have happened at this pace without the truly unique situation that I am lucky enough to be involved in. Well, soon there will be more to show than just the little parts and I will try to keep you informed.
We are still looking / deciding on a power plant. We are hoping we can get some kind of multiple engine discount.

ymmv

06-25-2004, 05:01 PM

James, how are you guys tacking up the tubes? How will you finish weld them? tig/mig/flame/what?

mcbirdman

06-25-2004, 05:38 PM

Hi Bart,

We are mig tacking and then sending them forward to our welding dept. (Bob) is gas finish welding them. Tonight I made the rest of the tabs that we need to mount the rudder pedals to the airframes.

Sunday will probably mean another trip down there for an attempt to get the 6th sideframe cut/fit and tack welded. Since the parts list failed to list the 10' section of tubing for the upper edge leading from back of pilots head all the way back to the tailpost to form the vertical stab - I expect rich has ordered enough for all of us. He said that to save on shipping we will piece it together on each of them from 8' long sections. Any other questions I can help with? jtm

ymmv

06-26-2004, 07:06 AM

No, no other questions at the moment. I just keep being surprised at how many airframes are torch welded. Not that it doesn't work (obviously) but it seems odd, given the other options.

mcbirdman

06-26-2004, 05:00 PM

You know Bart? You are exactly right. I tried to tell the other two but because they were unfamiliar with a mig, using too thick a wire gauge, they were saying that mig just burns through. I bought thin wire, an autodarkening helmet (which is really the key for me) and wrote my name cursive on a thin plate. Our Welder went to EAA school and just feels more comfortable with it. I am not an expert welder so if I want it done - gotta go with the rest. I know that he can weld with gas better than I can at this point with Mig.

I too, after reading and Ron's assurances feel that mig is a very acceptable method that would be much less work. Ron is very conservative with safety being the priority and so if he says Mig is fine, I would have done it that way - if I had some training in it. Instead we are using another method that just takes longer.....

Thanks for pointing it out though, I am painfully aware. (lol) I guess we are not in any rush - but our Welding Dept is keeping up just fine.

Hoping to go down tommorow and cut/fit/tack weld the last side frame. Rich is amazed at how fast we get it done. I don't know how much time it SHOULD take but since Rich made the jig and we are just doing the same thing over and over I think it is getting easy. Does one side frame from one person in say 10 hours of being there seem slow or fast?

Whichever it is - slow or fast - this is the last one before we go to the second jig set which is vertical for assembly of cross pieces. Once the two side frames are on there we started working on the floor and torque tube brackets, seat brackets etc that are easier to get at with the ends of the frame open. Once we get done (mostly ) with the inside parts we bend the two sides together where the engine will be and close it up. Then we heat the tail and bring it to center. We obviously can still get to the inside but it was nice working on brakes and other interior cockpit items before folding it together.

Just writing this stuff in case it helps others who are starting to build. jtm

ymmv

06-26-2004, 06:32 PM

... because they were unfamiliar with a mig, using too thick a wire gauge, they were saying that mig just burns through. I bought thin wire, an autodarkening helmet (which is really the key for me) and wrote my name cursive on a thin plate.

Mig can be tricky, what with all the variables: wire type and size, speed, voltage, blah blah. But it can do a fine job and puts very little extra heat into the tubes. It's fast.

Tig gives a lot more control, makes pretty welds, is a little slower and puts more heat into the tubes. It's easy for a torch welder to learn.

Both require practice, as does torch work. But:

Our Welder went to EAA school and just feels more comfortable with [torch welding].

End of discussion, right there. If that's what he's good at, that's what he should do. I'm not an expert welder, either, but I'm pretty good. Had a tough time getting the hang of mig, did much better with tig right off the bat. If ever I do an airframe, I'll tig it: like your Welding Dept., I'll use the method at which I'm best.

But what I don't get is why all the aircraft books, videos, and EAA courses are about torch welding. It's as if the other methods, which do have some advantages, didn't exist.

Tradition? Or what?

mcbirdman

06-26-2004, 06:48 PM

Hi Bart - Don't know - you know how old most the books are.... It also takes a lot of years to become an expert who has been doing it for a lot of years (lol) Maybe mig is relatively new by comparison....

Either way, I am not expert enough to do finish welding but I don't agree that it just punches holes through the tubes when it is set right. I am no expert in proper welds so we are just going with a familiar technique. Ron was worried that the frames might distort/warp but Bob said he knew techniques to help minimize this problem. I am sure everything will work out fine. Certainly better than I could weld.

Well, wish us productivity for tommorow, jtm

Brent_Brown

06-27-2004, 05:21 AM

MIG makes the metal brittle and I was shown a Kit Fox frame that was chushed the tubes broke like bones next to the welds not much bending. We did a test with gas torch welds and it just bends not like bones braking. If you go back and heat the MIG joints to red and cool slowly and that is the key slow cooling of the welds then it is fine. I am not a expert but I will fly what I weld.

KenSandyEggo

06-27-2004, 07:41 AM

Bad welding can kill you! When I was building my Avid Flyer many moons ago, the push-tube for the elevator was about an inch or 2 too long and I couldn't get it to fit. A friend had a 2-tank welding outfit in his garage and he was a car mechanic, so I figured he must know what he's doing.

I watched him cut the tube and reweld it. It was several weeks before I was ready for my maiden flight and I decided to go over the entire ship and check all the nuts and bolts one last time. I put a wrench on the lock-nut next to the weld to make sure it was snug. I barely put any pressure on it and the weld snapped as though it were a Saltine cracker. Sure woke my complacent ass up. I phoned the factory and had them supply me with a new tube. They also explained how to install the tube without having to shorten it. I would have lost elevator control when it cracked in flight. Not a good thing in a fixed-wing.

rehler

06-27-2004, 11:14 AM

To go along with Ken's story ... many years ago I crashed one of our first prototype helicopters which was made of welded chromemoly steel. It was complete destruction, everything but the pilot and engine was bent or broken. We analyzed the wreck and found that every break, and there were a lot of them, was at the welds. The welds were ok but the tube adjacent to the welds apparently got weak due to the heat and cracked. Our next prototype was made of bolted together aluminum.

Mike Hook

06-27-2004, 11:45 AM

Do a search on welding 4130 chromemoly tubing. You will see that there is two kinds of it. Standard and normalized. The normalized has been heat treated and then allowed to cool down. the same thing happens when you weld a joint on it. If it is now allowed to be heated and cooled properly your weld and the metal around it will be brittle. If I remember right you can heat the entire frame to 600 degrees and then let it cool back down slowing but you have to have a large furnace. The torch guy can use heat crayon and mark each joint and then heat it till the crayon melts and then let the joint slowly cool to releive the weld. The EAA has a few pages online on welding 4130 a source of good info.

Mike

ymmv

06-27-2004, 03:38 PM

MIG makes the metal brittle

Sorry, Brent, but that's flat nonsense. What you saw in the Kitfox frame were breaks at stress risers created by incorrectly shaped weld beads. IOW the welder didn't know his job. But the notion that mig embrittles the metal, any competent metallurgist will tell you it's false.

Mig has been around for about sixty years and is now the process by which over half the world's welding is done; and if it tended to embrittle the steel, industry would know it by now.

We did a test with gas torch welds and it just bends not like bones braking. If you go back and heat the MIG joints to red and cool slowly and that is the key slow cooling of the welds then it is fine.

It's not possible to stress relieve a weld joint with a torch. When you reheat the joint, you destroy the heat treatment of the surrounding tubes, weakening them, which is why the tubes bend rather than breaking around gas-welded joints. Moreover, the uneven heating and the impossibility of suitably slow cooling ensure that when you post-heat a weld you introduce new stresses more dangerous than the stresses in the original joint.

A test from the bicycle industry, which also uses thin-walled chromoly: make three frames, welded in whatever fashion. Leave one as is. Put the second in an oven and stress-relieve it the real way, soaking it for some hours in the heat. Attempt to stress-relieve the third with your torch. Then take all three and shot-peen them. The first may "take a set," that is, go somewhat out of alignment. The second will stay true. The third, if the tubes don't crack, will noodle itself badly out of shape. This test was done by Ben Serotta, maker of possibly the world's best steel frames.

Of course postheating the joints doesn't destroy them out of hand or there'd be a lot more aircraft falling down. But at best, it's just a waste of fuel and time. The welding industry has known this for decades.

I am not a expert but I will fly what I weld.

Fair enough, and I've no doubt your work is safe and I know that there's nothing wrong with oxyacetylene welds. They're fine, obviously. Nevertheless, the experimental aircraft crowd keep repeating myths that the rest of the welding world knows to be false. That's why I'm squawking at the moment.

Context: I'm not a pro. However, I've spent most of this year under the tutelage of some of the best welders on the planet, welding full time, finding things out, for the fun. I'm American Welding Society certifiable (but not certified) in tig and mig. What I say above is not stuff I've made up, it's from AWS approved sources. Sorry, but they're more trustworthy than the EAA.

darrellwittke

06-27-2004, 04:11 PM

I was cruising through home depot day before yesterday and stopped in the little welding machine section. Saw a book about welding and ended up skimming it. Noticed the section on normalizing metal and noted chome-moly 4130 especial.

For what it's worth, it basically said what Bart just said, that stress relief takes a large oven with 6 hours minimum to heat and cool down, that normalizing chrom-moly after torch welding merely weakens the joint further, that the best method of torch welding chom-moly 4130 is to pre-heat as normal, weld joint, and them do not immediately withdraw flame but let cool slightly over 60 seconds to two minutes. For what it's worth.

Perhaps someone else can verify? I hate to trust a book I just happened to pick up and skim at Home Depot. Thanks

ymmv

06-27-2004, 07:44 PM

If it's one of the books by Richard Finch (which it probably is) then it's okay.

mcbirdman

06-27-2004, 08:46 PM

Okay, Back again from Indiana. I got the last side frame tack welded tonight. It took about 8 hours to get it done. Still don't know if that is fast but that is what it took.
Rich has continued to work on 1/3 and got the turtle deck built. He got the proper tubing shipped to him and made the frame look like a fuselage now that it has a tail.

We took some photos of the machine, our work area and the many small parts which I will try to post maybe tommorow. We celebrated though because we will now be able to take one huge table down next time when I go down there. We still have to bend the 10' section for the tails for 2/3 and 3/3 before then but I think it will bend easy and only take a short time. We were excited as now we are ending another phase of construction. First it was Rich and the layout and jigs. Then it was many small parts. Then we made sideframes and now we are on to putting sides together. It really feels like we are moving along. We will still have to make some small parts and the frames all have to take their turn on the vertical jig to get quite a bit more bracing done. Still - In the last couple weeks that Rich has worked on the vertical jig a few hours every evening - he is getting close to coming off it.

Since there was mostly small part production going on - we took some photos for record but it didn't seem like people would be that interested in seeing them. Now we have more to show that looks like something recognizable and every time we walk in the shop we notice that things are getting very interesting.

Next week we should have the wheels and brakes. Rich is interested in getting a frame on wheels that we can bring to Mentone so it gives us reason to push ahead. He already has one to a point that it would still be fun to see. Well, that's it for now, jtm

Brent_Brown

06-28-2004, 04:14 AM

OK this is not going to be like how big and where to put the HS.
Do it the way you feel good doing it.
I was just putting out what I see not that it is the only way to do it sorry to get this started.
MIG TIG GAS all do great welds in the right hands

mcbirdman

06-28-2004, 08:29 AM

These photos were taken on break after realizing that we were done with the frame jig and were going to go to the vertical.

mcbirdman

06-28-2004, 08:31 AM

More parts waiting to be attatched

mcbirdman

06-28-2004, 08:32 AM

Tail post completion

mcbirdman

06-28-2004, 08:33 AM

Rich with gear

KenSandyEggo

06-28-2004, 09:48 AM

Texas Ken, you're right, it was the tubing next to the weld that disintegrated when I applied a little pressure.

jucie

06-28-2004, 02:32 PM

"Electric welding? No use for gyros. Must be torch welding." Nobody appears to disagree. This was the very first thing I learned from fellow gyro owners friends of mine. Some things are repeated so many times they become as if they were cinzeled in stone (even when misleading).

The other day I was passing by a place were a corporation will construct a big building. They were preparing the basis, welding huge spars of steel. A worker told me that they weld together 3 spars and put it inside the ground. Each has to support much weight thru decades without any manteinance. Guess what welding method do they use?

After that, I talked about with some knowledgeable people. Conclusion: any welding method can be bad or good. The result depends largely on the worker expertise.

ymmv

06-28-2004, 05:42 PM

OK this is not going to be like how big and where to put the HS.

Very sensible, Brent. Forgive me if I sounded a little too emphatic.

RHerron

06-29-2004, 04:46 PM

Jim and all;

The group seems to be making good progress and I commend them on their efforts.
I had two recommendations initially. One was that you should build one complete unit and then use that as the baseline for future tubing orders, corrections, notes on special techniques, etc. This allows a trial fit for everything before committing to multiple mistakes.

I do understand the logic of building several at once..... but be careful.

The other was to MIG or TIG weld. I love gas welding and it is perfectly acceptable, even preferred for certain things. However, properly done, MIG is what most all aircraft kit manufacturers use. TIG is better and is the industry standard for good welds (although slow). Either MIG or TIG is better for reducing warping. This will become an issue in the finish-welding. You will notice longeron scalloping between fuselage stations after the finish-weld is done with gas.

I have three frames in my shop that are all TIG welded. I have also built several frames that were all MIG welded including Andy Keech's and Toru Ito's.

I have not used Oxy/Acetylene on any except for heating and bending.

mcbirdman

06-29-2004, 08:09 PM

Hi Ron,

Thanks for the comments. On the intial recomendation to order one complete and then try it again with updated list would have actually had more reorders than we have now. When we find something missing we add it to the list and order enough for the other two. The parts we have made so far have actually worked out well without any remakes for incorrect drawings. This pretty much has been headed off because Rich looks at things before making them and knows when something isn't adding up. But when it comes to missing tubing if a person was to try to order off the parts list they would be ordering at least 2 times - longer than normal shipments because they are not found until we go to the parts list and see it isn't there in the first place.

I think actually, by ordering parts for three and leapfrogging materials that we aren't that far behind in shipping costs as a person who is doing it all by himself. Because of the reorders it is like us all ordering on our own, with us not saving on shipping as we thought we might. We tried to save money and order extra based on the first frame and the day after we got it we found out that we could have added something else to the order that we didn't know we didn't have because it wasn't on the parts list. Anyway, that portion is probably a wash, we thought it would help but it just didn't quite work out that way. BUT - we are keeping notes and are becoming very familiar with actual needs and things will be better for others in the future. Building them behind each other has actually been working out pretty decent.

The side frames are all made, I doubt there are any mistakes there. But now, we will soon be pulling the first frame off the vertical jig and will be starting the second. During this time we will only be able to work on that until that is ready to come off the Vertical. In other words we are actually leading one frame out and custom fitting. Then we will be starting 2nd as the first moves ahead. We are NOT doing everything x3. We are basically running one ahead and then backtracking when one gets WAY ahead. That is why we have one frame all tacked up ready to close the front and add gear brackets and 4 side frames just waiting till we need them. It is as close as we can get to assembly line without getting into a problem by not realizing everything other than brackets are still custom fit and custom cut.

On the second point you made Ron, I just wanted to be clear - other than the scalloping, they will be just as strong? Mine is just tacked and I might still have some options to pursue. I was just thinking of the scalloping on my SP and maybe that would look good (lol). Seriously though, you know I care and want things to be as good as they can so I am open to suggestions. If you think that it is a big mistake and that I would do better to get someone finish weld it without gas then I can do some more consideration time as it gets nearer.

The parts are so far working out and things are going together pretty decent. Just some snags here and there with some parts but nothing that any of us are upset about or anything. We are just thrilled to be seeing things come together so nicely.

How is your welder working out Ron? Does he want a finish weld job? If your concern is only possible warpage, I am planning on adding stringers to outside fuselage anyway which I think would hide most of the side frames anyway.

I am glad you are watching over us.
I appreciate it and it means alot to us!
Looking forward to Mentone and when you stop by to see us. jtm

ymmv

06-30-2004, 02:33 AM

... we are keeping notes and are becoming very familiar with actual needs and things will be better for others in the future.

So you'll be writing up a list of erratta or a corrected parts list or something? (If you did it might not do me any good, since I'm thinking about a different model of LW, but it'd be worth having for comparison nonetheless.)

mcbirdman

06-30-2004, 06:33 AM

Hi ymmv?,

Yes, we are keeping notes. Any problems we encounter we are going to pass it on to Ron. He has done alot to demonstrate and put these designs out there. There are just some details that haven't been caught yet until now. He has done a wonderful job making these plans available and we appreciate him and his wonderful support and caring attitude.

We are giving these recomendations to him because we care also and want to see more of these birds flying and also want to share with him. The problem areas will affect materials on any frame you make. Nothing you wouldn't be able to figure out yourself, but ordering multiple times and waiting for parts you could have had does add up very quickly and slows production down proportionally. We are just aiming to improve things for future builders and to help update the plans to correct some details.

I have to say again, Ron provides excellent support and responce time whenever we have needed it. To take on such a project and to know he is just an email or phone call builds our confidence. We know we can't stray too far and know that if it is a photo we need emailed or a question of why something is done - One step at a time we are getting closer to completion because of his prompt, caring replies. It really has been a pleasure and honor working with Ron. jtm

RHerron

06-30-2004, 07:11 PM

Jim,

The finish-welding, done with gas will be fine. Piper, TaylorCraft and just about all tube and rag airplanes through the 1950's were welded with Oxy/Acetylene. The advantage they had was that the frames were well jigged with heavy-steel framework.
This held things straight. You will have yours free from the wood jigging when it is finish-welded so it may twist a bit.

What little warping will take place won't hurt a thing at all.

My only purpose for the other comments on welding were to point out that there are distinct advantages to MIG and TIG processes...with hardly any disadvantages.

My welder helper went to work for an aluminum boat factory for the summer. If you wanted your frame TIG welded, I'm sure I could book him back part-time. He does good work.

Yes, Rich is keeping a close eye on things. I hope you all aprreciate his efforts.

Sincerely,
Ron

mcbirdman

06-30-2004, 07:48 PM

Thanks Ron,

Since we have some time before the other 2 get done I will have time to see how things are going. As mentioned before, I probably will do some stringer work that would I think most likely hide any twist that may occur. I may be interested though in the Tig and it might be nice to know what kind of hours/cost there might be for finishing welding the tacked structure.

Also it seems stupid that I didn't even think about how things were done before mig/tig. I knew it was considered newer but cubs and whatnot being gas welded makes perfect sense. Anyway, I still appreciate the clarification on gas welding.

Looking forward to Mentone. Will only be there from Wed til Fri night as I have a Wedding for Sat again. jtm

mcbirdman

07-11-2004, 11:41 PM

This week found the horizontal jig put away. Rich's frame was on sawhorses. Bob said for me to go ahead and put my frame in the vertical jig that Rich just pulled his out of. Bob must be busy and wants to keep us moving forward.

Today I got the sideframes mounted vertical and some of the cross beams for cockpit floor. I attatched the tabs for the floorboards, the plate for the control cables and two sets of tabs for the one set of brake pedals. Since it seems popular to show aerial photos with feet showing - so I jumped up on the vertical jig to show you what I am talking about.

I will also attach a few photos of Rich's frame sitting next to the jig that is now being used for the second frame. It is starting to look like an aircraft shop around here finally. All those small parts now being assembled they make big parts that are resembling something exciting.

Anyway, a few shots of the progress as another week goes by....

mcbirdman

07-11-2004, 11:43 PM

overall shot 2 frames

mcbirdman

07-11-2004, 11:44 PM

Another overall

mcbirdman

07-11-2004, 11:45 PM

another shot

mcbirdman

07-11-2004, 11:48 PM

Here is another photo

mcbirdman

07-11-2004, 11:52 PM

Rich's Frame From Front.... nice...

richard lidke

07-16-2004, 05:34 PM

Yeseree folks, just like a Littlewing Factory here,

Ron will be envious of us Boosters, all we think about is Littlewings, Littlewings, Littlewings, Women, oops, Littlewings etc. Rich.

mcbirdman

08-16-2004, 01:36 PM

Aug 17 update. Went down to Rich's house and started around 1:00 in the afternoon. Rich worked on finishing the bushings in all the rudder pedals. He turned the bushings so that he could press fit them into the pedals without glue. Rich likes his lathes. He made them fit so tight they won't fall out. I know this because he was having to use one of those 25 million pound presses. Ok, I don't know how many pounds but it is taller than me.

I Decided that it was time to draw the tail together so I could fit the cross tubes that were not installed. I allowed the gentle curving of the longerons to continue from the pilots seats on back. The curving of the frame was controlled with blocks and straps as I installed the pieces to keep things square. I installed the vertical tail post and the leading top edge that goes from this post all the way up to the front above pilots head. I installed other diagonal cross braces once the cross tubes were in place. This means significant changes are being made that now make it look definately aviation related. I started installing the braces that will hold the upper leading edge but it was 16 1/2 hours since I left home.and I had to drive that long trip home. Got home as my wife was getting up for work.

It was a long day but I think that a major change occured through the nite as we went from having a box frame to one with personality. There isn't any more doubt what it is and I look forward to next weeks progress. If things go as I plan I will be able to take it to my friends house to see what he can do with his new tig welder. He should be able to inspect my work and we will try to finish off any joints that need it. Not sure how much I was going to get done, I brought my trailer down in case I would get enough done to take it home to my welder. With Rich's ok I left the trailer down there so it will be there when I get ready to bring it to welders temporarily after one more Sunday of work. We will know better then just how much help the tig will be and it will help us to have someone look over the work.

I wanted to get stuff done on this jig because Rich is a tornado of activity and we have to keep up with things if we are all going flying together. Bob will be able to hop up on the jig here I think within the next couple Sundays of work.

I covered up the tables with plastic as we always do, to keep them clean and dry and as I turned the lights out, I had to walk one more time up to the frames and peek under the covers. It is a lot of work to get things done. It is alot of satisfaction stepping back for a second and trying to look at it as if you never saw it before. The changes that have been made today and the last couple days make it seem like it is growing like a weed, but I know it is a flower waiting to bloom.
Anyway, this is the progress we have made and the steps we are taking in order to do something we all love to do. I hope you enjoy the update. jtm

richard lidke

08-16-2004, 05:07 PM

Nice Job Jim. Keep up the good work while I'm snoozing--Rich.

mcbirdman

08-23-2004, 11:14 PM

Aug 22 Sunday. Arrived down there eager to work. Pulled another all afternooner into the night and get home by 5:30 am trips. BUT a lot happened. I finished adding the cross members for the tail and finished all the upper supports from pilots seat back and then some additional cross tubes for the floor. Rich and I heated and bent the sides of the front of the frame together and I installed all the cross tubes and supports for the engine. I mounted the bracket and tube for the stab. In short, it may not seem like much but I was able to pull the frame out of the vertical jig and brought it home so I could do some work with a tig welder. It will not be worked on next weekend as I head out to Rhode Island for a week. I have some pedal brackets added already but the basic frame is ready to finish weld anything I missed while it was on the jig.

With 2 frames up to this point we are now going to have to encourage Bob to show up more as he should be able to start welding the 2 side frames that I made for him, as he puts it in the vertical jig and starts a going at it. Hopefully his schedule will start allowing this.

It is neat that we are now this far. We are making progress and things are looking up. It seems like we are quickly approaching the time to start deciding what engine is going to be used so we can figure out what instruments are going to be added into the dash.
We made it this far, and things are looking up. It is a good day when you can finally step back and see that there aren't any more tubes to add to the frame ! The last 3 weeks has seen big changes. Well, that is all for now.

Chuck Irby

08-24-2004, 02:52 AM

Sounds good James, but how about posting some pictures? :D

donshoebridge

08-24-2004, 03:53 AM

Hi Rich,

Are you guy's going to take your LittleWings up to the ultralight fly-in at Three Rivers in a couple of weeks? Tim is going to take his tractor up. I'm still debating if I should go to Three Rivers, or go to the Fly-in/Cruise-In in Marion on the same weekend. Any plans?

mcbirdman

08-24-2004, 07:32 PM

I will try to get some photos when I get back. I tried posting some before and I am not sure if people were enjoying them or not so I didn't shoot the last couple times. To the average person seeing a few tubes added here or there doesn't seem much but when you can look at a full frame all of a sudden it looks exciting.

Problem is that now it looks like we are really going fast and people will expect it to be finished like next week or something. I had thought about putting a drawing on here and then just coloring the pieces in as they are added in but I knew in maybe 3 days work once in the vertical jig I should be able to have nearly everything done anyway.

I will try when I return to take a photo of the frame. It is hanging next to the single place at my dads shop with the nose down. I have these wheel pants from an Archer I once had. Would you believe that with just a little adaption/welding I can probably get them to fit perfectly? They still have to be painted but I think it will look great with them on. Anyway, thanks for the asking/interest. I will do what I can. jtm

Ps Don, Rich comes on here once in a while. He is usually out in the shop though... (lol) This or next weekend I think he has to go back down to Ohio. That is all I know about that.

richard lidke

08-25-2004, 06:51 PM

Hello Don Shoebridge. Rich here. I noted your post. I wasn't aware of the Three Rivers deal. Could you give me more info. Maybe I would go since Three Rivers isn't too far from where I live. Thanks in advance. Rich.

Brian Jackson

08-25-2004, 07:16 PM

jucie

08-26-2004, 02:25 AM

I will try to get some photos when I get back. I tried posting some before and I am not sure if people were enjoying them or not.

I do like your photos, James. I think a buch of other guys like them, too. Keep them coming.

richard lidke

08-28-2004, 05:07 AM

Hello Brian Jackson. Rich here. Yes, I will probably go, since nice people like yourself are attending. However, I still don't know what is going on, times, etc. Could you please fill me in. Thanks. Littlewing Booster Rich.

richard lidke

08-28-2004, 05:12 AM

Hi Richard.
I just noticed you're from Rolling Prarie. I live in the Niles, South Bend area. I'm planning to be at the Three Rivers fly-in on Labor Day. Hope to see you there with the Littlewing!

Cheers,
Brian Jackson
Hi Brian. I sent another threat, but maybe this one will get your attention sooner. I will probably go to the THREE Rivers thing, but would like more information on times, what is going on etc. Don Shoebridge got my interest, but hasn't responded yet. Rich.

gyroblackwell

08-30-2004, 04:48 AM

Rich,

Glad to hear you will be attending. Bring your build to show!

Info is right here : http://www.threeriversairport.org/events.asp

We will be there Sat. Morning the 4th

Tim

richard lidke

09-01-2004, 03:32 PM

:) :) Hi Tim. Looks like your the only one who saw my request for more info on Three Rivers. Bob Randall and I will probably make it. Maybe Jim McNeilly will too. Good things come in three's you know. Kind of like our three Littlewings tsk tsk tsk. We sure have been having a good time building. The more I build, the more I wish I would have started sooner. More people are really missing out on a great thing in this gyro realm. I hope we can do some more PR for the PRA and gyro's in general. I'm glad to be a member of 81, at least we correspond. Thanks again for your input. Talk to you soon and I hope at Three Rivers. Littlewing Booster Rich.

mcbirdman

09-02-2004, 08:42 PM

Okay so I haven't got alot of photos yet of the frame but here are a few that show the wheel pants I am trying to adapt to the SP and note the 2 place airframe hanging tail UP next to it. I will try to take it out of the pole barn and take some more. We just got back from the trip and I just grabbed a few shots before heading home.

So here is what I have so far. jtm

Chuck Irby

09-03-2004, 02:35 AM

WOW!!! and another WOW!!! That's awesome James. Beautiful craftsmanship.

mcbirdman

09-03-2004, 06:52 PM

Thanks Chuck !

Well, probably no work at shop this weekend so will try to get push pull tubes worked out tommorow on SP. I did install the seat belts tonight and now the Strobe light works on the tail and the cigarette lighter sockets I mounted below the seat for accessories. ( for my gps and radio and such). I am going to try to get the flashing taillight from a c172 wired so she lights as it is already mounted on the mast. It is 1/2 white and 1/2 red and pulses a quartz light.

Anyway, thanks Chuck will see what I can do tommorow. jtm

mcbirdman

09-07-2004, 11:14 PM

Ok it is late at night but wanted to update with progress. I brought the two place frame home to work on it leaving a note posted on the sister ship.... something about not being lonely that she was only flying the coop for a few days and would be back. I figured I could do a little tig and mig welding on her back at home. It came home easy enough on the trailer.

I ended up working on the Single place instead. I did a lot of things On Friday. This included moving the tubing that forms the dorsal fin... at least putting a "Y" at the end of it where it terminates on the rear cross tube. With the "Y" in place the third push pull tube in the center can fit through it and is no longer a problem.

I installed the seat belt and shoulder harness.

I removed the seat, welded on locking nuts so that I no longer gotta fiddle with trying to start a bolt on a nut while being in such a tight spot. Seat should only take a few minutes to remove now.

Made custom brackets that are now welded to landing gear so that the wheel pants are removable in just a few minutes also.

I strengthened up the control tube where Ron suggested.

Now it was time to figure out if I thought I could bring the frame down without the Big trailer......

Well, it traveled well but even after putting duct tape on the "engine mount" tubes she still whistled quite a bit as the wind gusted. It didn't sound so much like a locomotive as the sound came and went on the highway with the gusts. Sounded sometimes like a foghorn going off every few seconds or so. Pretty funny. the things we do..... jtm

mcbirdman

09-07-2004, 11:36 PM

Then I get down to Rich's on Sunday, later than usual. Bob was there and he had just placed the last set of frames we made into the vertical jig. Rich finished assembling all 3 of the control tubes and accompanying parts. I worked as long as I could, which was not long because we ran out of mig gas. Still, we got some small parts made and did make progress and it was nice to see all the birds together and hear about 3 rivers that they attended. (Btw I heard a few asked about me- sorry I just was in this build mood instead ) I did think of you all and even though we were tired we decided to take a few photos you have asked about. It still will be a while to get these things done but we are starting to see the fruits of our labor. Anyway here is a few angles of the sister ships and how the shop is starting to look like a hanger (lol)
Rich and I talked about a few parts he made that were extra and we decided it would be kinda nice to pass a little part on to another builder that has expressed interest in the jigs and is anxiously wanting to build. In a way, if we can start the tradition of handing a piece of one of ours to another builder they will all be related. Just a sentimental thought but one symbolic of all the sharing and caring that Ron Herron has exhibited with us and others.
Anyway, here is a few - gotta go nite nite. jtm

richard lidke

09-29-2004, 05:49 PM

Hey Jimbob. Booster Rich here. Got two sets of engine mount bushings done tonight. Received the stock from Wicks good delivery, cut, reamed, polished, pressed them into the nice lathe turned washers we made last weekend. Polished again after assembly, boy do they look nice. Ready for the old tigger next. Got Bobs set of bushings done, but couldn't find his washers, maybe he took them for bead blasting---I know he is dying to try out that blaster, what do you think. Rich

mcbirdman

09-29-2004, 06:26 PM

It is possible. I thought you hung the washers on a string on all the airframes? I remember you doing that. Good job on the press fit. Now we just gotta start thinking about what goes on the other end of those bushings..... Does that cog belt redrive put us out of the water cooled VW? I know Bob is considering some different engine that I don't even remember the name of. At least whatever we put in will be a new engine.

Just like the blaster, I see you liking your "old" tigger more and more. I know I do.....

Looks like Saturday will be ok for me to come down. I was able to make the 4 brake pedals, add the brackets to the airframe so they will mount, and get all 4 tabs attatched on the airframe for the brake cylinder each side. Looks nice getting the pedals in place. Good job on the progress. Wish I lived closer because I would do some evenings also like you. These things would be getting done even faster. Still, for starting in November... We are pretty far along thanks to your know how and our commitment to keep moving things forward.

Not sure what we will do next, I guess I gotta get the seat base put in like yours so we have the adjustable front seat done. I did bring home the 8 pieces that go to the adjustable seat posts you made prints for. I thought if I could drill them... something I can do here to save time for when I am there.
ttys jtm

mcbirdman

10-03-2004, 05:28 PM

Update. Yesterday I was able to get the front seat put together and moun it in the airframe as Rich had drawn out. He got the details worked out and it seems like a nice little option. It is adjustable about 4 inches and does tilt if needed or is removable with just 4 push button pull pins. I added bracing to the posts to make them stronger and to have a place to attatch the choke and mixture cables. Rich did a few things on his machine concerning the plastic blocks that hold the torque tube and other fittings that will be attatched to the torque tube. Rich was able to place the motor mounts on the airframe and then went to work making a jig that suspends the airframes. Rich found the center of the aircraft at the nose and mounted it so the whole airframe will rotate to allow for better acsess for welding and or fitting.

We discussed fuel capacity and are considering two under belly tanks about 30 or so inches by I think 8" around. The idea is that we can put a door in the cabin that we can fuel through but clear so we can see fuel level. I think it would total about 15 gallons not including the header tank which is 5 gallons. We are trying to decide on paper I mean metal or plastic. I think it will be metal.

I won't be working next week on it since I will be tied up at a local show that runs through the weekend called the Fall Color Cruise. It is on the island in the heart of the city and I will be exhibiting both photographs and the single place. The newspaper just printed an article that came out today (sunday) that promotes the studio and the project. It is good advertising and does feature a full color photo. Not bad for the local paper. Anyway, we are getting to the point where we have gone from small parts making... to assembly of a big frame and now we are back to small parts because we are now installing the componants and finishing details on the frame.

We are going to contact the folks in Texas and see if a smart strut can be adapted on our birds. Things are starting to turn cold here and we will probably take part of a day to partition off the workshop with hanging plastic to make it a little easier to keep warm when it isn't....
If anyone has any ideas on the power plant can they post them in a new thread? I have been lucky so far as to be able to use this thread as an update for anyone who may want to or is just interested in the week to week progress of such a project. We figure for those of you that are just starting to build you may actually be able to see the rate of progress you might be able to expect and possibly learn something from it. I guess I will go ahead and ask about the engines on another thread. jtm

mcbirdman

10-25-2004, 12:16 AM

Well, I'm settling down after the drive back. 3:57 am. Have to stay alert on the way back and it takes a few minutes of relaxing before I go to sleep, even though I know I am already tired, so I thought I would update a litte.

Arriving down there at Rich's house I found the 3/3 frame had been getting the floor braces put in place by Bob. He had the dash crosspiece in place and it is looking like he is about to draw the nose together. He has installed some upper crosspieces including the 1" main tube. He is getting there.....

Rich has his engine mounts tacked on his firewall and is finishing up the second part of his special modification that allows the rear seat bottom to be removed by a few pins or two pins to rotate it. He was working on the linkages to get familiar with them for the morse cables and how they interact with the torque tube. He felt like this time it was just a bunch of detail work.
Sometimes the changes we see are big and sometimes they are just lining us up for a bigger assembly...

I cut the 4 tubes flush off the nose of the frame in order to get ready for my engine mount points also and also finished the rear tilt/removable rear seat. I reamed out all the floor studs and holes for the adjustable seats so they work fine. I added some more tabs so that the floor can be attatched to the frame. I test fitted the torque tube in place within the delron bushings to make sure we have clearance. I installed the tabs on the bottom crossbar that fits behind the instrument panel, providing a place that screws will go... Rich and I made the cross pieces and studs/sliding posts for Bob to use on his.
Well, that is pretty much all I can think of that we did. A bunch of small stuff that needed to be done so that it can all be put together. I guess we are going to order the rod ends for the morse cables as we are going to start fitting that to the torque tube soon. Time for nighty nite. jtm

B Hawley

10-27-2004, 06:13 PM

This is my first time posting, but I’ve been reading for quite a while. I’m glad to have found a site with so many others with the same interests. I have an LW5 under construction. The fuselage sides are tack welded and hanging on the garage wall, rudder welded and now working on landing gear, control tube and horz. Stab. I’m doing this on a budget so my project will most likely take a few years.
I moved to Northern California from Washington State ten years ago. My whole family used to go to the EAA fly-in at Arlington every year. I’ve always been interested in rotor craft, and there were always some there demonstrating their unique flying characteristics. I started a Cozy MKIV in Washington, I was six months into the project and everything changed. The project sat, collected dust and took up space in my shop. I sold the project and started looking on the internet for something I could build that wouldn’t cost $40K, or more, to complete. Something that I could take photos from. I came upon James McNeilly’s Little Wing construction site and was immediately taken by the design. Now I’m hooked and the rest will be history.
I’m not committed to any type of engine, although cost is a major factor. I have been reading along about several engine selections that will work, all discussed except for the Corvair. What is the history of the Corvair, is it something that I need to shy away from? According to the fly Corvair website it has a good history and a fairly large following, relatively. The larger piston configuration falls within the weight and power envelopes needed. Does anyone personally know of a flying Corvair engine with some hours on her?
I could ask a thousand questions with so many experienced builders and pilots on this site. I’ll ask them as I need them. I do really want to thank Ron for such a good aircraft design and outstanding support. He is rare in this modern day. I only hope our paths will cross someday so I can thank him in person.

Brad Hawley Grass Valley, Northern California. (AKA “R.A.V.I.N. Eye”)

mcbirdman

10-27-2004, 06:46 PM

HI Brad, There was some info on Corvair engines on a different thread. Won't go into talking about them here as I have been trying to keep this thread more of an update type thing for other builders to read or wanna builders also. I figure that they can see the rate of progress and the things that we learn. But I will say it is nice to meet another builder.

If you have any questions or need something specific you may either email me or just ask. If you do a search by using the words corvair I think you might find some additional info. If not if you go to engines section and ask you might get more readers there. Glad to know there is another Little Wing waiting to emerge from the garage...... Nice to meet you ! jtm

mcbirdman

11-30-2004, 07:19 AM

Okay here are a few misc photos. They include Closeup torque tube installation, seat belt installations, an underbody shot of airframe, some overall shots just for the fun of it. These photos were shot on my "pocket" camera and not my real one under LOW light but hopefully you will enjoy seeing the progress we are making. Rich made a mount so that he could rotate the frame as needed for both welding or installation. At first I didn't really want to stop and mess with it but upon consideration of all the things yet to be done... It is vitally important for several reasons....

We can have all three machines in the same place and work on them without the gear being on. We can rotate the machines to get optimum angles for welding. We can turn the frame as needed for part installation. Instead of taking alot of time however I just bought the 39.99 engine mount from harbor freight. I figured even though I had enough scrap to build it on less than 20.00 worth of wood and 20.00 for a couple hours work... might as well buy it.

Anything I might build may not end up being portable enough for me to just throw it in my car when transporting the frame back and forth. I started taking the frame back and forth in order to keep up with the tornado. There is no way that I can put in a ten hour day and equal the progress of Rich who does that plus the hours during the week. This is the only way we can both keep progressing reasonalby close together.

Anyway, the most important reason to use the setup is when it comes time to cover the airframe. It was difficult for me to do the kind of cover job that I wanted while working vertically or upside down. Turning the airframe should allow flowout of the byutarate and make gluing and cutting the fabric much more comfortable. I can even put a chair by the frame and sit there working on it instead of stooping over it for hours on end.

These are just a few thoughts and the more I avoided working on the stand the more I knew that I could be using it instead of finally getting to the point where I had to make one and then keep thinking how much more it would have helped if I had just did it sooner..... Well, here they are, some various photos of our work. Rich found some yellow for his seats and I found the blue..... I need to get some more photos closeup as Rich has gotten the control cables (all 4) installed and the brake pedals with all the clevis attatched and it looks great. I'll try to get more soon but we just get busy pushing ahead and forget.....

mcbirdman

11-30-2004, 07:22 AM

here are a few more...

Victor Duarte

11-30-2004, 07:59 AM

wow !, James, really great work, great pictures, great you..
cheers

murraybarker

12-16-2004, 02:32 PM

Hello All,I am building a twin seat here in OZ,Is there any reason you are not useing seat tanks? I like the idea of control cables,more photo's would be appreciated.

mcbirdman

12-16-2004, 04:36 PM

I suppose you could use a seat tank like other versions but headroom suffers from the lifted seat even without padding. I will try to get some more photos of our progress.

We pretty much decided to build custom belly tanks in addition to the fiberglass tank. We think we can make something that looks nice and will carry enough fuel to really use these machines to do some serious cross country stuff. So far all I have is cardboard to show for it. Soon I am going to start mocking up a general shape. Might have to have Rich draw something up we can just follow. The main thing is that they didn't want the fuel inside the cage so ........

Today I cut the cables and started making the shackles for the rudder pedals and brakes. I gathered up some cardboard to use for making a pattern for the flooring.
I went scavenging at the local scrap metal place and found some 5' x 5' thin alluminum sheeting @ 1.35 lb the sheet is only 20.00 and big enough to do two machines, which is 2 boot cowls and 2 instrument panels. Not bad .... 20.00 for 2 machines? Wow..... only bad thing is I have to go back with a trailer or a truck :(
Will be going back down this weekend to work at Rich's on the gyros and maybe will get some update photos then. I probably won't be doing much on the gyro after christmas for a while. You know when you guys were talking about flying down to Florida ? I am going to go down there with my family leaving Jan 1-8. The only thing is that we will also be seeing Cuba off our left wing as we continue down to Cancun. I will try to make them honk but I am pretty sure they won't stop even though I would love to. Update to come.....

richard lidke

01-07-2005, 06:34 PM

We are moving forward as usual.

I was able to make all three firewalls over the last week.Lucky I had a friend who worked in a HVAC shop which had some left over .022 ga galvanized stock, he sheared the outside sizes for me saving cutting time and providing a nice straight edge, then informed me the material was my Christmas Gift! Pretty nice eh?

We then went to another friends who let us use his brand new six foot hand brake press to make the bends. We made the curved bends by hand on a six inch piece of bar stock with a ball peen hammer. Of course I had laid them all out with blueing and scribe lines first. They all turned out very nice. Rons suggestion was to shim the firewall down 1/8" then backdrill through the engine mount holes, which I did, and they went in to make a very nice job of it. Made bushings for completion of the rotor shock mount which I made an extra one of if anyone is interested.

Learned from Ron that the new style Lateral Control Cable upper support replaces the bushing and end caps, which aren't needed with this piece. Got all the cheek plates sheared by Wicks for no charge, thus making all three sets out of one square foot of aluminum, saving some bucks.

Now to cover and finish up my horizontal stabs after mounting, attaching the two vertical helper stabs, adding flying wires and braces, followed by the rudder, which is finished except for mounting my white tail nite light.

I was able through a friend to have all three tailwheel springs made at no cost, can't beat the price. Hope all you LW guys are moving forward.

We're having fun here at the Littlewing Booster group.

Good New Year to all you rotor folks. Booster Rich. :) :)

richard lidke

01-23-2005, 06:27 PM

Hello, fellow rotorcraft builders.

Just though that I would let ya'll know that Ron has forwarded photos of new shock absorbers he has built for the littlewing as well as a belly tank, which we were contemplating also.

These photos have been forwarded to Jim McNeilly who should be able to put them on the site here for information purposes if any of you builders are interested, as I am for sure.

If you want the information, sooner, I can e mail a copy of the information to you directly. My e is pilotnow2003@yahoo.com let me know if you need this information.

Best Regards, Booster Rich. :) :)

mcbirdman

01-23-2005, 09:54 PM

see different thread: belly tank.

mcbirdman

03-01-2005, 01:18 PM

Well, winter did slow us down but this is how far I have gotten this far. Soon the weather will break and we will be going full force again. I can't complain about the side tracking as it included finishing up checkride SEL and getting to take my first passenger and recharging myself for some more work.

These are a few photograph/snapshots as taken at the studio where I was doing some of the work before taking her back down to Indiana to be with her sisters. I didn't want her getting all rusted up in the travel back and forth so I did some painting and protecting. The floorboards are in, adjustable seats with out the rear seat back, Rear seat belts setup, torque tube, Throttle brackets, and the flying wire tabs have been since added to the generally built frame. There is alot to do but looking at how far we have come I think it is going to get very interesting come this spring.

Rich has been working on the masts, cheekplates and accompanying mast plugs and mounts while I have been up here. This weekend I plan on going down to see the progress on the other two and getting back to work. We are trying to get the third one off the vertical jig so we have room for them all set up. I took some photos at Rich's shop which I will try to post later but I do know that last week the nose was drawn together on the third one so it should be coming off very soon now.

And now that I am legal to fly my single place Lw I need to finish her up and start some serious training...... I hope this summer will be good...... It has been good ever since I met up with Rich and Bob and we started the 2 place machines. Could not have done it without his help.

mcbirdman

03-29-2005, 08:19 PM

Well - Last week we were able to add the front seatbelts and work on the rounding of the aircraft aesthetically.

On the seat belts the interesting thing is that the front shoulder straps are removable at the click of a button. Leaving the shoulder straps in the buckle means that when we pull the 4 seat floorpost mounts that the entire seatbelt assembly will be removed with the seat. No shoulder straps in the way and with lapbelt mounted to seatframe it will all stay together. Pretty neat.

On the rounding.... I am not sure if you guys realize how much time it takes to add stringers here or there just so it looks good - but not only did we add the custom window frames that make the back windows " wing " shaped but we made a couple hoops to round the area behind the pilot as it transitions to the empenage as well as 2 full length stringers above the lower longeron to help round out the body. I also put my special custom teardrop shaped window frame in place same as I did with the single place. I just like the idea of looking back to see what is there.

Also notable is the top (sunroof ?) area will all be one piece and I raised the headroom for the pilot (rearseat so that with a helmet on I will be comfortable. Hopefully you will be able to see what all this is going to do towards making her look a lot more curvy as my single place was modified. I learned a little on the first time through and hopefully this will come out even nicer than before.

I know it isn't perfect but I do think it is looking pretty exciting. If we can get Ron to get us a drawing of a suspension that is similiar to a J3 cub then we can move the cross bar that nearly hits my knee when I sit in the front seat. I want the front to be more comfortable but I also want the clean look of a landing gear without struts on the outside. Anyway here is a couple photos. It may not look like much but there are DAYS spent just on the stringers and windows.

pix 1 the special rounding. Notice that the horiz stab has a airfoil shape. That took a while to do but looks nicer. Notice hand bent teardrop rear window

pix 2 partial side view with window frame and special hoops side windows will actually wrap/sweep/curve back.

pix 3 darkened area shows rough window area.

I just figured as long as I have come this far I might as well give it my custom look...... it is alot more apparent if you compare the previous post photos where I had only run the long stringer at that point.

richard lidke

07-30-2005, 07:17 PM

:) :) Well all is well with the Littlewing Boosters even if Jim is slacking off a bit (just kidding of course). I have been grinding away every day as usual. You may have seen my LW 2+2 at Mentone. I have been able to install the control panel (less gages) the forward boot cowl over the fuel tank, made the tank openings and forward frame holes in the cowling were the front to cabin struts go through it, and tonight I finished up the two front foot boards.

Got my left side foot boards laid out on templates then transferred them to the wood. Got to cut and polyurethane them yet, then the right side tomorrow. Jim is coming down to work, so I'll probably get my two windows done tomorrow also. I was able to get the right hand door finished (cut and tacked up) before mentone. I will finish squaring it up and tacking a bit more, then finish gas weld and blast and prime before adding hinges and plexiglass with seals.

I have decided to add elbow rests on both sides of the front and back seats for use on long trips, my arms always get tired in the car when I don't have somewhere to raise them up a little bit. I was able to finish up my back seat and the shelf with the cloth pocket before mentone. I hope you guys liked the way I did it up. It gives a nice little storage pocket for trip stuff. I put a little sheet of 1/8 inch plywood in the bottom for a little better protection for the cloth bottom where the stuff you put in it will rest most of the time. Since the stuff will be swinging around in the pocket when flying, I figured a small stiffener in the bottom of the pocket will make the canvass last longer. When I got it installed, I noticed it made the pocket look better with a more defined bottom, the full size I had intended it to be.

I now have a pocket in the back of the front seat, and hope to make a similar pocket for both sides of the back seat too. Once I have my trim wheels installed in the front and back seat, I will know how much room I have for the pocket on the left side. The right side will be clear as is.

You may have noticed at Mentone that I now have my forward brackets and the mast installed, along with the cable connector bracket. After discussing it with Ron, I finally grasped how it should be made, and made four, 3 for us and one spare as usual. The mast is really sturdy and rigid as it is designed, and the brackets really make it a solid mount. It is interesting to see how the mast transferres loads from itself onto the framework around it, really spreads the loading out nicely. All these brackets were relatively easy to fabricate, tack, gas weld, fit up and install, and they look very nice once installed.

I was amazed how easy my boot cowling went on and how nice it fitted up to the firewall material and the control panel. The layout of the control panel curves took me most of the day, but once the template was correctly completed, cutout and fitup of the aluminum was relatively easy.

I have fitted up both cheek plates on the rotor mast with the cable mounting tube, and with its mylar like washers, it pivots really smooth. The inner tubing and solid aluminum bar make it a very strong rigid connection for the rotorhead. I hope to order this soon. First I want to get two three bulb strobe/marker/running lights mounted on the tail horizontal stabilizer, then I can begin to do the stits cloth covering process as soon as I get the stab blasted and painted.

All this stuff takes time, but it is a lot of fun, and I feel good every time I work on the thing. By the way this strobe comes from Wicks and has a red or green light on the forward plane, a white stobe on the side plane, and a plain white running light on the stern plane for nite identification. Runs around $ 400 + but I think is is worth it for all that it does.

I hope to mount the strobe electronic booster boxes just behind the battery behind the back seat. There is a nice flat spot available there for that purpose. I had better sign off now, Jim will be here bright and early to work on his 2+2 tomorrow, need a bit of rest before that.

Tailwinds to all my friends. Booster Rich. :D :D

richard lidke

08-30-2005, 02:19 PM

Just an update on progress-Littlewing Booster's only product! I have completed all the foot boards and polyurethaned them. They look great. I also have received the two strobe/running lite/marker light units with their separate power supplies--surprise, they were made in Chicago.

Guess what -- everything so far has been made in the good old USA. Makes me feel good to see things going this way, not foreign sourced!

At anyrate, got a template made and made brackets to mount both of the strobe/comb lights on the outboard ends of the horizontal stabilizers. They turned out good, and I was able to make the 90 degree brakes on a little one foot brake press that a friend gave me after building his Sonerai. Made a template to fit the back of the light units (there is a big bump where the forward bulb is mounted) and and opening allowed for the wiring from the bump and the other location where five more wires come out of the unit.

Fitted and mounted up nice. I will build a light wood streamlining round end for the front of the bracket to improve airflow around the light bracket.

Found out from Ron that the details for the airfoil are on one of the ultralight drawings in the packted. Very small print, so I read it with a big magnifying glass and pencilled in on to the print so it could be easily read. It says that you may add wooden ribs on the edges of the metal ribs to get a true airfoil curve, and it varies from 8 to 10 percent of the chord length at a center hight of 25 percent of the chord length.

So I again made paper templates for each rib at the correct height, and my friend Dick Cains (Mr Stearman) is helping me fabricate them. We will glue them to the finished blasted painted steel horizontal stabilizer ribs, then make a notch for the strobe/marker light wiring to come out at the leading edge attachment point where I will have a plug in disconnect for the wiring, which will continue on thru the fuselege to the power supplier which I am mounting just behing the seat / battery location.

Running the wiring thru the chord of the airfoil solves a problem I would have had of trying to hide the wires under the cloth covering of the airfoil. Now with the higher volume, I can do it unseen. We will then rib-stich the ribs and apply dacron with the stits process. Man are these stabs going to look nice! We are going to add a little bit of airfoil shape to the two vertical stabs too, and then cover them, for better airflow and looks.

Im telling you guys this thing is going to look like a Balanka (spelling) from behind.

I think I have finally arrived at my paint scheme. I am going to paint it white, with a phosphorescent stripe and black trim like a Coast Guard Chopper. I was in the Coast Guard for 4 years, and it will be my tribute to the great work that those guys do every day.

By the way the Coast Guard has turned money back in to the Federal Government every year of their existance, rather than waisting a penny. None of the other Branches have ever done this. Nice trivia bit eh?

At any rate with the showy paint and the strobes, I'll bet she's going to show up good in the sky! We are also going to add a couple of airfoil ribs in the rudder too. This will help smooth the airflow and again add a nice touch in the way of good looks to it.

Hope all you guys are keeping up your good work and are moving ahead with each of your projects. I'm really into this little wing.

Tailwinds Friends. Booster Rich.

MattPearson

08-30-2005, 06:07 PM

Former CoastGuardsman here too, Rich! 1994-1998 BM2

KenSandyEggo

08-31-2005, 12:24 AM

Rich, hit the enter key once in awhile to make some paragraphs. Makes it much easier to read. My eyes are vibrating.

richard lidke

09-09-2005, 04:56 PM

Hello fellow aviators. Booster Rich again.

Got my horizontal stabs back from the blasting guy, they looked good. Then I applied zinc chromate, and two coats of shiny metal rustproofing white enamel to finish them along with the door. The white paint really makes the frame parts look good, and professional, with a nice finish.

My friend Dick Cains brought over all the Fir ribs that he had made to go over the outboard edges of the stabilizer ribs. I had made a layout drawing of each one so as to be able to get the dimensions right and in correct proportion for an airfoil. The wood ribs looked nice, now I will glue them with gorilla glue to the ribs, run the wires from the strobes up to the fuselege connection point, then we will be ready for the stits process to begin.

I can't wait to get started cloth covering. This will be a new phase of the construction for me. It seems we can always learn something from each other and Dick Cains is an expert at cloth covering.

I'll keep all you aviation friends posted as to how we do on this exciting aspect of the Littlewing construction. Thats this short bit for now.

Tailwinds friends. Booster Rich. :) :)

KenSandyEggo

09-09-2005, 05:49 PM

Rich, doesn't it start a new paragraph if you hit your "Enter" key twice, when you want a new paragraph? I'll hit mine twice right now.

There...new paragraph. Maybe it's time to trade in the Commodore 64.

KenSandyEggo

09-16-2005, 04:38 PM

Holy Shlemoly! Someone actually listened to what I had to say.....er.....type. Can you send me $49.95 to help defray the cost of my new reading glasses?

richard lidke

11-06-2005, 08:21 AM

Hello fellow gyro enthusiasts. Littlewing Booster Rich here. We did it. My first time at covering with Dacron. As I mentioned above, I was getting ready to cover my tail feathers with cloth and with help and suggestions from my friend Dick Cains, we got all of the parts I wanted to get done, done in one day.

I ordered the materials from Wicks. Poly Tak Glues the cloth to the metal frame and wood/metal ribs. Poly brush, penetrates and seals the cloth. Poly fiber reducer acts as a thinner and cleaner for the above items.

Called Wicks and told them what sizes of pieces that I needed to do the rudder, both horizontal stabilizers, and both parts of each of the two vertical stabilizers. They responded with a recommended amount of cloth which I ordered. Got it the same week, good delivery from Wicks.

Dick Cains showed me how to make a long needle out of a welding rod for pulling the material through when rib stitching. I made it at work by heating up oned end and flattening it on an anvil on a vice. Then brought home and ground a hole in the top (slot) with my small cutoff wheels on my hand held die grinder. Ground a long taper for a point on the other end, being careful not to burn the metal while grinding.

We proceeded to lay out the cloth on a 4 x 8 sheet of plywood as a work table, then traced around the parts with a felt marker. We then cut the cloth out about a half inch larger then the tracing. After this we glued the cloth to the outboard edge of the metal of the stabilizers and some of the ribs where we would be cutting it out for the vertical stabilizers to pass through. I had already run the six wired that I needed for my strobe/marker lights through the ribs and polyurethaned and painted them. I had also marked my wires with cloth wire numbers at each end and attached the quick connect fitting from thomas/betts as a supplier. My wiring was all high temperature, fiberglass covered, not plastic. All fittings were crimped and tested with a wiggie for continuity. The other ends will be run through a six prong connector/disconnect at the edge of the stabilizer at the edge of the fin where it attaches to the fuselege.

After slitting the cloth outsice the curved sections about every inch to allow the bends with out wrinkeling, we finished glueing all the cloth down, and worked more glue into the edges and smoothed them out and down on the metal, wood as applicable. We went for a iron to tighten the cloth, and when we got back ironed out all the cloth on all the parts. It was amazing to see it tighten up nice and smooth. After ironing the first time I applied a coal of the Poly brush to all the cloth. It went through the cloth, someplaces I could see it dribbeling down on the inside as I applied it. I was careful to smooth it all out on the outside as I moved along the surfaces.

Applying the Poly Brush was a bit slow since the dacron is smooth. But it does cover. Make sure you get the orange colored stuff, since coverage would be difficult to see if you use the clear stuff. The orange showed up good. Today I will do a little more trimming and cutting to opend up the holes for the vertical stab locations. Next week we will apply the rib stiching and tapes over the stiching, then more glue and Polly brush to seal the tapes.

This was a new process for me and I was amazed how much fun it was. It took us from about 10 am till 7 pm to do both sides of all these parts, including the rudder.. Not bad for time I think. Now I have a background to go on to the fuselege when I get that far. If Jim comes down sometime this month, I hope he can take a few pictures and post them here for everyone.

Thats it for today. I'll let you all know about how it goes on the rib stitching process.

I'm having a get together for Littlewingers on Saturday of Thanksgiving weekend to celebrate two years of building/learning. Anyone wanting to come is welcome, we will have a good time, food and Ken Brock movies. My phone is 219-778-2708 if you are local and want to come give me a call please.

Hope you have a nice day. Booster Rich. :) :)

richard lidke

12-04-2005, 05:32 AM

:) :) We did it!

After the previous weekend efforts, Dick Cains and I were at it again this last weekend, this time at his garage where he is rebuilding and covering a TRI-Pacer.

After reviewing last weeks efforts, we re-ironed the Dacron and it tightened up a bit more as was expected. Then we added a tape about 1/4 inch wide over the top and bottom edge of each rib (on the outside of the previously covered ribs that is). Then we marked off two dots where we would pierce the Dacron at about 3 inch spacing equally spaced in from each edge of the horizontal stabilizer edges. Once finished on one side we turned the stabilizers over and repeated the marking process on the other side.

Then we held the stabilizers up vertically and pierced the right hole first on the first top set of marks. Once the needle was through the material we came back through the cloth through the marks on the left side of the rib. At this point Dick showed me how to tie the ribstiching material off. Here is where the process gets really interesting. Now you move down to the right mark on the next set of marks down and pierce the Dacron again, through the front to the back side, then come back out on the left side as before, but you'll notice I didn' t say anything about cutting off the material, you don't.

Here you come out of the starting side then cross over under the previous thread brought down from the first point, pull the long thread over to the left side, pull the slack out of the down coming thread, go under the thread again, but before pulling the needle through, take the slack thread and go under the needle sticking out, then over the top of the needle, then hold it tight to the left, then pull the needle all the way through, and wala! you have this knot done, move down to the right dot mark on the cloth and repeat the process all the way down to the end. It looks beautiful on the back side, and very nice on the front side as well.

Once the rib stiching was finished we layed another covering tape of cloth, about 2 inches wide, over the stiching, from leading edge to trailing edge of the stabilizer, then this was painted down with the polycoat. After all the ribs were stiched and covered, we added tapes to the back, then the front of the trailing and leading edges of the stabilizers, again painting them down with the polycoat. After we finished up one it looked very good. We did the other, and then the rudder. All were left to dry. I will again iron the tapes and edges of both the ribs and leading and trailing edges to improve the tightness and smoothness of the cloth coverings.

I have taken pictures for Jim to Post when he gets the time. I am now running the wires to the power supplies for the strobes etc. Boy did this stuff turn out nice! Starting here on the tailsection provided the opportunity to learn the rib stitching and covering process without using up big pieces of the Dacron until I learned the process. It was the right thing to do. Fortunately, there was no waste. All leftover pieces of any consequence are saved for future use on the airframe next spring.

Today I am working on the ribs for the elevators which I will be finishing up and covering just as the above parts were when I get that far. Haven't ordered the Rotor Head yet, but will hopefully do that in the next few weeks while the elevators are in process.

We did have a celebration get to gather last weekend here as I had previously mentioned. About five pilots showed up and we had a great time watching Ken Brock slides and movies, and the amazing gyro-grinder food chopper short. We also used Jims computer and screen to run flying programs on a J3 Cub, a Bi-Wing and a Jet. We were even able to use our own airport which is built into the program. Pizza and drinks along with Pumpkin Pie and salad made a good luncheon for us and all enjoyed it and had a good time. Hope to do it again to celebrate more progress on the littlewings.

Again progress is our most important product at Littlewing Booster Aviation!

Have a great Holiday all you guys and gals.

Littlewing Booster Rich.:D

richard lidke

12-25-2005, 10:32 AM

:D :D

Yep its Christmas. Hope you all are having a great holiday. Just a note that I have finished up tacking up both of my elevators.

When attaching them to the stabilizers, there is a little interference where the hinges rub each other, a little filing and minor grinding fixed this. Decided to go one inch longer on the joining tube between the elevator ends. Gives a little more room to install the fasteners out where you can get at them easier, versus very close to the vertical tail surfaces that will be covered.

Man -does this really enhance the streamlined looks of the tail of this bird. As soon as I get it covered, I'll hopefully try to get Jim to post a photo of it for me. Hopefully I can get these parts finish welded, bead blasted, and covered while I have the next two weeks off from work. Just ordered my cables from wicks to brace the tail featheres.

There are two kinds of cable available in stainless steel in 3/32 diameter which Ron H. recommends. The 7/7 is a bit less flexible and should be used on the bracing of the surfaces on the tail. The 7/19 is more flexible and can be used for the linkage to the rudder pedals. This 7/19 is what I will be using where it passes through the fairleads etc and connects to the rudder/rear wheel linkages. This cable is rated at 900 lbs pull!

The EAA had a good article on making the cable connections, adding the pressed on connectors, and how to test the pull capacity on these cables.

This article was dated May 1998 and was on page 92 thru page 97 of Sport Aviation. It was called "Controlling your Aircraft" by Ron Alexander. It clearly shows how to compress nicopress sleeves, how to use the turnbuckels, thimbles, sleeves, and installing, testing, inspection.

I highly recommend its review for anyone rigging cables as all of us Littlewingers will be.

I will be following this procedure to insure that there are no weak links in any of my control cables. Its always a good idea to be a little bit safe when you do the work, then you don't have to worry about it when you get the bird in the air

Thats all for today. Friends have a great holiday season. Booster Rich.:) :)

GyroRon

12-25-2005, 10:35 AM

Where's Mr. McBirdman been?

richard lidke

12-28-2005, 11:41 AM

(All the listed pictures can be full screen size if you point and click on each of them).

Hello fellow gyro builders, here after a long trip to McBirdmans (my fellow gyro enthusiast Jim Mc Nielly's), is my first set of pictures, thru the majic of electronics and the ability to make picture copies on a DVD, (and a lot of inspiration and help from Jim).

The first picture is my tail parts jig, showing the wood cleats ready for the metal parts insertion, prior to any tack welding of the two elevators.

The second picture shows the metal parts and channels all in place nearing ready for tack welding condition with my mig welder.

The third picture shows the elevators in the flat plane position, after they came out of the jig and were fully tack welded, ready for gas welding to finish out their assembly. The curved portions of the elevators were reheated to make them take a set, so they won't try to straighten out when they are gas welded.

The fourth picture shows another angle shot of the elevators from the side. If you look closely you can see the many tacks on the piper channels forming the ribs front to back. These are about one inch apart, and all the welding that is required to stick these together.

The fifth picture shows a view similar to the sixth, but from the left side.

The sixth picture shows the angle shot of the rudder, horizontal stab, and you can see the strobe on the right stabilizer and the right vertical stabilizer now covered. Although the picture is a bit dark, you can also see the tailwheel from Matco, just below the rudder. Notice the three false ribs in the rudder, which really added a nice airfoil curve to the surfaces, resembling an airfoil similar to that of the horizontal stabilizers.

The seventh picture shows the wires running past my elt, and then connecting to a terminal strip at the location of the two strobe power supplies just aft of the rear seat area where I will be locating my battery mount. The wires have sets of quick connects which allows them to be disconnected through the elt removable window for panel removal, should maintenance or replacement become necessary at a later date. The wiring will be harnessed and tied when the final assemblies are made, which should make this look a bit more organized than it is shown here.

The eight picture is a vertical shot showing the entire tail/stabilizer assembly (less elevators) in the plan view. Notice the quick connects where the wiring extends from the last rib on the stabilizers into a plug assembly attached to the fuselege. This allows removal of the horizontal stabilizers for maintenance or painting, without undoing any of the internal wiring connected to them for the strobes etc. at the end of the stabilizers.

Also note the angular bracing of the two small vertical stabilizers at the ends of the horizontal stabs. This provides an excellent stiff connection for their mounting. If you scroll down in the enlarged version of this photo, you will be able to see my elt nestled in the center of the tail longerons, with all the wires running beside it up to the power supplies.

The ninth picture shows a close up of the right strobe/marker/location light on the end tip of the horizontal stabilizer. (See more pictures-couldn't get these last two shots on the format).

The tenth picture shows my friend Dick Cains, helping me by attaching a tape above the wooden rib in the rudder, prior to doing the rib stitching, which he is an expert at.

Thats about it for today, and my limited ability to post pictures like this. I am doing this from Jim Mc Niellys computer in Grand Ledge Michigan, where we went today to do this for you guys so you could see some of my progress.

Again have a great holiday season. Booster Rich.

richard lidke

12-28-2005, 11:50 AM

more photos

richard lidke

01-04-2006, 06:39 PM

Finally I was able to start my cable rigging work on my tailfeathers. I mentioned the format that EAA has made during one of their past magazine publications.

I followed it. They told how to cut, assemble, and test the cable after the crimp on thimbles were in place.

The cable is rated at 920 pounds tension. The EAA recommends a pull test of about 60 per cent of this.

I built a nice movable crane in my shop before I moved any of my machine shop tools into it, many years ago, and it has become an invaluable tool over the years. It can pick up 2 tons and move it anywhere inside my shop, covering the entire floor. It is on a track 14 feet wide and is about 26 feet long, my building floor is 64 feet long, and the crane comes up to within about 3 feet at each end of the building.

I rigged two plates each with a 3/16" diameter hole and a 1/2" diameter hole. With these I was able to rig to the hook of the crane, and through the clevis at each end of the newly made cable connections for the horizontal stabilizers, I was able to attach a metal bucket which I loaded up with concrete and tractor weights to get what I needed. Using a scale, each of the concrete blocks weighed 20 pounds, with all I could get onto the bucket, I also added two 75 lb tractor wheel weights. This gave me a dead load of 525 pounds.

The first test was with just some concrete weights at about 255 pounds. The load was gradually applied to the cable. This cable was 3/32 rated at 920 pounds. The nicro press sleeves were properly compressed with a brand new tool purchased from Wicks Aircraft supply. As the load was applied, it was lifted about one inch clear of the floor. After just a few seconds, it began to slip through the sleeves. This was not achieving the rating that was required.

There wasn't much more I could do, because I had compressed everything correctly, and it didn't work. So I elected to add one more sleeve, after scrapping the first cable assembly, and recovering the clevis at each end, which were undamaged. This time I put a second nicopress sleeve on the cable abutted with the first. And then repeated the same pull test. This time it was successful in not slipping at 525 pounds pull. I completed two more cables did the same pull test, and had the same strong no slip results. I even added 40 pounds more and retested, still good.

Therefore, having been a test engineer with several company's, I would recommend that, if you are building a Littlewing using this small cable, use two sleeves, test and you should have acceptable results. I just wouldn't trust my life to a single sleeve, they might look good, but the pull test that EAA recommended might have just saved my butt sometime in the future.

Just a little trivia, the plates that I used were made of 0.065 thick 4130, the clevis were drop forged steel, expensive, but very strong, the thinbles, were standard Wicks plated steel catalog items. None of the rigging elements showed any damage.

I have also completed roughing out my adjustable trim. It seems to work pretty good, as soon as it is finished, I will advise further on this aspect. The best test will be the shakedown on the ground easing into everything when I get that far.

Thats it for now friends. Booster Rich.:) :)

Dick Illyes

01-05-2006, 02:06 AM

I would like to know more about the crane. I am in the thinking process on a shop I plan to build this spring. Can you post some pictures of it or describe it in more detail.

Thanks.

gyroblackwell

01-05-2006, 05:38 AM

I was told to always use 2 sleeves if it is a load bearing cable.

I am glad you did the test, and hope that you will write up a small article (even just copying your post) add some pics and send it to PRA editor.

Keep up the progress rich.... would like to see you bring it down to Benson Days 2006 !!!!

Good luck.

magilla

01-16-2006, 04:19 PM

richard lidke

01-16-2006, 05:43 PM

Booster Rich:

Can you send me plans / close up pictures of how you did those elevators with the lights - they look awesome!!

I like the wiring, too.

How did you build your table? I'm not trying to be funny, but I would like to know how to build a flat table to mount jigs.

1 . The strobes were ordered as a kit from Wicks Aircraft. The kit consists of two strobe/marker/tail light units, two separate power supplies. The marker lights are one of red, one of green. They are mounted appropriately per FAA stds. The cost about 400 plus, and were made in Chicago. There are about five wires from each unit to its respective power supply, and a separate 12 volt supply for the other two wires, one wire is a ground.

I designed the mounting of one piece of metal bent at a 90 degree, to follow the outline of the outside of the strobe body by about 1/4 inch larger. It is rounded and tapered the same as the strobe body, and is welded only in two places. One at the end of the horizontal stabilizer, the other where the 90 degree bend contacts the front curve of the stab. The front edge is trimmed with a wooden shaped form to allow better airflow across the surfaces. This form was made of three pieces of wood glued together, then shaped to form a smooth curve in all of the directions away from the high point in the center.

In the plans you will see on one of the pages, the method to make and attach a supplemental wooden rib face to each of the metal ribs on the stabilizer. This is made by following the leading and trailing edge of the stab, measuring it and making the highpoint 15 percent of this length, which is located at 25 percent back from the leading edge of the stab. I drew this up on my drafting board for each separate rib.

A pair was then made of fir, glued to each rib top and bottom, then sanded and painted. At the highpoint I drilled six holes large enough for each wire to pass through the wood only part of the rib. This made a nice insulated pass through, without any sacrifice to the metal part of the rib. These then ran from tip to tip of the stab. I terminated the outboard wires, with an extra 6 inches of wire with thomas and betts disconnect terminals for ease in connection/dis-connection to the strobe itself, which had the other sex of the terminal connection.

The wires were wrapped with a single covering of aluminum foil, to discourage high voltage rf from interfering in my radio transmission/reception, then a tie wrap about every two inches. This stiffened up the bundle and made it self supporting between the ribs. The aluminum foil also acts as a uv protector for the wiring bundle from the sunlight, which should enhance its life span.

There are two false ribs at the outboard end of the stab not on the plans, which I designed, which allowed me to have a gap between where the vertical stabs attach, and which the wires pass through. There is enough room between the last false rib and the strobe lite mounting to allow the quick connects, without producing a bulge in the dacron covering.

I mounted the light frames with three stainless allenhead screws for corrosion resisance and future removal if necessary. I tapped the light fixture for these screws. I have pictures, but no way to post them on the internet, maybe I can xerox them at work for you. I'll let you know. On the backside of the thin mounting steel are a series of three pop riveted nuts (aircraft type) which the allenhead screws thread into. The wooden parts of the ribs were polyurethane coated, then the steel with two coats of yellow zinc chromate, then two coats of white rust inhibited enamel paint. All metal parts of my aircraft has been steel shot blasted to stress relieve all of the welded parts before painting, then cleaned with acetone just prior to painting.

The wiring was purchased from a local electrical supplier, and is a high temp cloth braided outside type, not plastic. It resists burning. And by passing and glueing it into the wooden ribs, no chafing or rubbing is possible. The other end of the stab has the wires attached to a 6 prong disconnect, so the stabs can be removed without any work to any of the wiring. All of this will be hidden with trim when finished.

2. In the plans, it explains that a hollow square 2 inch steel tube is used to help support the flat plywood used for the jigs. My tubing runs the full 16 feet of the two butted together sheets of plywood, crosses at each end, and under the center seam of the sheets. I only did this on the side jig, on the bottom jig, I used full length 2 by 8 pine with 2 by 4 cross pieces about each 3 feet. Where my vertical posts of the jigs rise, I used two 8 by 8 timbers below lagged to the bottom of the jig, then all 2 by 4 wood above where the sides of the airframe are supported by it. Look in our old posts closely, blow up the thumbnails and you will see this in detail. I hope this will suffice for now.

The plywood and steel are the most expensive parts of the jigs. Use a good level flat concrete floor when assembling after welding the tubing, then use a good level, then level your jigs in all directions before using, otherwise you might end up with some crooked tack welded parts.

I was very meticulous in this regard at all times. It took some time to layout all the major parts, especially the curved tail parts, but alas, it was cold in the shop, and I accomplished this in my nice warm basement the first winter of construction.

All of my jigs are used on top of saw horses, which can be made to suit your height conveniently to help the old back while bending over them. Sometimes you will work on top of them when assembling the sides and pulling the front end and tail parts together during the welding process.

You can buy cheap wooden shims to help achieve level, then use cheap chinese bar clamps to clamp the jig to the saw horses so they don't move while you are using them. This worked very well for all three of us here. I highly recommend purchasing a vertical belt sander for use with metal sanding belts, and a cheap horizontal metal saw from Harbor Freight. These will be used continuously in your building. A grinder with wheels formed for grinding the joints in the tubing is a must too! This grinder works better then the tubing jiggers you can buy and is faster by a bunch.

You will need to do some lathe work since there are quite a few bushings, with a reamed hole in them. Buy a 3/16,3/8,1/2,5/8 reamer, you will use it continuously to make the AN bolts fit, they are a very snug fit in all of the sizes, and a reamed hole is a must for a good fit. These reamers can be used in your electric drills, or a lathe to complete all the bushings you will need. I may be cohersed into making these if someone wants me to, I have four lathes, three drill presses, four grinders, a shaper, and the best belt sander from foley/belsaw. All of these tools get used all of the time on this project. All of the holes on my entire aircraft are a reamed fit, all of them!

I will delete this within 30 days to save space on this string.

Best regards, Booster Rich.:) :) Is this a book or what? LOL Mike Gaspard wanted me to leave this post on for a while, so ok. Thanks for the request Mike. Hope this helps someone. Again Best Regards, Booster Rich.

richard lidke

01-30-2006, 01:58 AM

gyromike

01-30-2006, 03:57 AM

Rich,

At the end of post #115, you mentioned deleting the message to save space.
There's no need to do this, as text does not take up much space.

Please leave it there, as others may interested in your techniques.

richard lidke

02-08-2006, 05:52 PM

It was a busy weekend. Managed to get both elevators and the door bottom covered and sealed with polycoat this weekend. Was also able to get all the external cables rigged and tested and temporarily fit up to see how they would look. Sometime this week I hope to get the rib stitching done on all these parts. Got my door hung with the formed hinges, and made a working latch per Ron's verbal description. Works pretty good. I hope to get my window frame completed and the lexan mounted this week if I am lucky. No cloth required on it luckily. Best of flying to all you guys. Booster Rich.

Ah yes, been at it again. My friend Dick Cains came over last Saturday and we did all the rib stitching and taping of the door and two elevators. Now all of the tail parts separate of the main frame are completed, covered, and polycoated.

I will re-iron the loose bubbles or loose seams to tighten them up, give everything a second coat of polycoat, then get a low pressure sprayer from Harbor Freight and begin to do the silver coating of these cloth parts.

Usually two coats of the silver are applied over the polycoat waterproofing on the dacron to prevent sunlight from penetrating into the interior of the parts and causing uv degeneration of the interior elements or rotting of the cloth.

The Stits process which I am using is a lifetime process, so these parts should remain with me till I pass on (who knows how long that will be I'm already 61), I was glad to do these small parts first, since it allowed me to become familiar with the covering process, and the ribstitching and taping, prior to doing the main body of the airframe.

I sure am having fun building this Littlewing. If anyone out there is interested, don't hesitate, get started so you can have fun too. Besides the sooner you start, the sooner you can finish up this baby and begin to enjoy flying it.

Tailwinds friends Booster Rich.:D :D

chuter

02-09-2006, 03:23 AM

richard lidke

02-13-2006, 04:54 PM

Hi Rich,

You may already know this, but I'll offer a heads-up; if your final color is a light color (like yellow) it will work better to cover the silver with white first.

I didn't know this (I read it somewhere later) and I put yellow on top of the silver. It takes a lot more yellow that way. Mine still didn't get fully covered, you can sort of see the silver behind the yellow in some places.:(

You might want to research this a little to be sure I've got it right.

Mike, thanks a lot.

I believe that you do have it right. My base color will probably be white (typical of a Coast Guard chopper).

Jim Mc Neilly covered his first airframe then painted it yellow. I believe as you said, it takes a lot more paint to make it look good if you are going to a lighter color such as yellow. I know that Jim told me that he thought that he had used more paint and added more weight than he would have thought to make it look good.

My successive coats will be to trim out the white with the orange, black etc necessary to get the color scheme right. I'm looking forward to it, but it will be awhile befoe fI get that far.

Again thank you for your comments, allways appreciated here at Littlewing Boosters!

Booster Rich:) :)

richard lidke

02-13-2006, 05:07 PM

Ah yes, been at it again. My friend Dick Cains came over last Saturday and we did all the rib stitching and taping of the door and two elevators. Now all of the tail parts separate of the main frame are completed, covered, and polycoated.

I will re-iron the loose bubbles or loose seams to tighten them up, give everything a second coat of polycoat, then get a low pressure sprayer from Harbor Freight and begin to do the silver coating of these cloth parts.

Usually two coats of the silver are applied over the polycoat waterproofing on the dacron to prevent sunlight from penetrating into the interior of the parts and causing uv degeneration of the interior elements or rotting of the cloth.

The Stits process which I am using is a lifetime process, so these parts should remain with me till I pass on (who knows how long that will be I'm already 61), I was glad to do these small parts first, since it allowed me to become familiar with the covering process, and the ribstitching and taping, prior to doing the main body of the airframe.

I sure am having fun building this Littlewing. If anyone out there is interested, don't hesitate, get started so you can have fun too. Besides the sooner you start, the sooner you can finish up this baby and begin to enjoy flying it.

Tailwinds friends Booster Rich.:D :D

This weekend was good for working out in the shop on Saturday as was last. So I went back to the previous parts, re ironed them to smooth them out a bit more, then gave them a second coat of polybrush. They now have a little more shine to them. This also allowed me to tighten up the tapes a little bit and add more sealant where the air gaps appear around the rib stitch tapes and threads. All in all I'm pleased with the outcome. It appears professional to me (but who am I to judge). and looks good. I think the silver coating will do good on this preliminary work.

My edges and seams came out good. I also re ironed the rudder and stabilizers and gave them a second coat of polybrush too. Now all of my empennage is at the same stage. I may wait for a little warmer weather before applying the sliver, but who knows, maybe a good day will occur before spring breaks. My edges and seams are now nice and smooth with very little bumps or raised bubble areas. The ironing helps clear these up nicely. Dick Cains tells me I can continue to iron up to the final painting, if I feel more is necessary. One can see the taughtness of the cloth pulling on the steel tubing now, so it must be nice and tight to do that.

Thats it for now. Tailwinds friends. Booster Rich.:D :D

mcbirdman

02-15-2006, 10:26 AM

Well - like it or not I am back. It has been a lot of work at the new house. It wasn't like it was in bad shape or anything - just that it has been full of surprises. I may at a later date fill you in with the story about our 1st thanksgiving at our house or what a slow moving drain means.....in another thread. Keeping with construction type activity in this thread I can tell you a few things that come to mind concerning progress.....

With the unexpected house going up for sale and having to hurry and sell our old one money became a little bit of an issue. We were still buying things to fix up the house but it became hard to leave the house to see and work with Rich and I miss that. I did make a few trips and intend on getting back down there more often to keep pushing ahead. I really enjoy the time we spend down there working together on these airships.

I did bring my airframe back to my house before the weather turned bad last fall. In between building a hanger for the single place out in the backyard I kept working on the 2 place. The "hanger" is a specially built - on the fly steel shed that has a special peak to allow the gyro to be backed in with the tower up and the blades on. Nothing fancy but we ran lights out to it and figure that with the airport being in the same square mile as us.... It would be nice to just park it and close the door. Someday maybe I can afford a pole barn of some sort but for a while this will work. It started off as a conduit frame that used bungee cords to hang tarps on but ended up with steel sheets instead. It seemed like it wasn't that much more to replace the tarps that rot or tear in the wind with something to last a bit longer. At the same time I needed to get it out of the 2 car garage because I wanted to make it into a makeshift shop to work on the two place. My father, who lives across the street has a 40x80 2 story polebarn that we built for him that could have housed the single place but there is a certain pride that comes from taking care of it yourself.....

I ran airhoses out of the automotive closet in the garage to the center of the garage with a retractable air line. Kitchen cabinets were already installed out in the garage and made a good start for the shop. We have an automatic blower with the garage fireplace and have used it a few times. Mostly I use the little propane cylinder heater because the ceiling is drywalled and holds in the heat reasonably well.

I got the boot cowling installed, the instrument panel clecoed in, the side strips for the windshield along with the top stripping. I am working on the tailwheel spring that Rich was so kind to have given me already curved. It needed to be ground down and drilled.

I just installed adjustable flight trim with a modified gearbox for a house window opener. It is fairly light and is actuated from either seat. I made a trim indicator that has a movement of about 6 inches so you can precisely see the trim setting - either person.

I got the door made and installed Removable and Slideable windows for comfort, and for photography. I found a workaround to get out of the front seat much more comfortable thanks to our adjustable height seats that Rich and I installed in both. I am going to have to order the rotor head soon and start hitching that part up soon to get all the cabling done.

I am starting to look around at engines and gather more information.

The single place got it's N numbers last fall and needed a lot of ground hours to break the engine but I didn't have the time with the move. I did get the radio installed in it and was getting ready to take it to the airport for taxing time to help the engine time. I am looking forward to spring and I am considering the possibility of making Bensen days again for some more flight training if we have enough money and a car that can make it.

I have been catching up on all the posts - all the changes - we couldn't get internet except dialup at the house so we had it installed at the studio so now we are ON, just not as much.

Screw

02-15-2006, 11:41 AM

Screw-In

I got an engine and really big prop for ya! All you'd need to do is re-fit the cowl.

Screw-Out

mcbirdman

02-15-2006, 12:45 PM

Hi John,

Just reading up. What the heck? Check PM mail.

mcbirdman

03-17-2006, 01:11 PM

here are some photos of a simple trim system and various overviews. I can't wait for spring to get here and revive my energy. The trim system has an indicator that slides along the U channel enabling a visual cue as to trim position. I made it out of a masonry bit that has coarse threads and embedded it into the U channel with the feeler that moves the needle as trim is cranked in. It is viewable by both the pilot and passenger. On the horizontal stabilizer notice that I hand bent the tubing into ribs so that we won't have a flat plate back there. On the boot cowling, 1st photo notice the tear drop shaped covers that will add a little style while hiding the bigger than neccesary hole for the crosstubes to pass through. With Rich's good idea to make them removable for ease accessing the fuel tank header it helps that we can manuver these pipes a bit once the covers are off. Well, With the move I haven't done a whole lot more than the boot cowl, instrument panel rough install, and trim device but I guess it something. Rich coming up this weekend to our ST Pats Pary blowout at the town hall so not much will be getting done except discussing what is next and how we are going to accomplish it. Take care all. jtm

Vance

03-17-2006, 05:28 PM

Thats very creative James, It looks like it is realy comming together. Nice attention to detail.

Thank you, Vance

richard lidke

03-18-2006, 09:00 PM

Click on the thumbnails for a full size picture.

1. The first shot is my left elevator completed. It had been mig tack welded, then gas welded by Bob Randall one of the three of us Littlewing Boosters. He did a great job of finish gas welding the part. I then had it steel shot blasted, then this was followed by a washdown of solvent to remove any oil or dirt. Then this was followed with two coats of zinc chromate, and then finally by two coats of rust inhibitive gloss white enam

2. The next photo shows the dacron polyester cloth laid out with the outline of the traced airfoil. This was cut out with scissors which are laying next to it. The tracing was made by simply laying the airfoil on the cloth and then tracing about an extra half inch around the part with a felt marking pen.

3. The third photograph shows the cloth laying loosely over the airfoil, with the extra piece cut for the backside laying just above it.

4. The fourth shot shows the airfoil with the dacron glued to its edges, and then ironed out to tighted up the material. You can also see the cloth which was applied to the door in the next view. It is amazing how much nicer the material looks once you begin to iron it out. My friend Dick Cains says that you can continue to iron the material up til the time that you do the final painting of the fabric. Just be careful that you don't hold the iron in one spot too long, since this will burn and discolor the material.

5. In the next shot you can see Dick Cains with his big needle, passing the dacron thread through the airfoil material. Once passed through, the needle is then passed back again, a knot fashioned, the thread dropped down to the next hole, and the process is then repeated again, about every three inches. Before the rib stitching takes place a self adhesive tape is applied to the ribs to cushion the thread where it tightens up on the cloth. This helps to strengthen the area and helps prevent tears in the fabric. Remember the fabric had already been tightened by ironing before the reinforcing tapes were applied. Also will note that the edges have all been reinforced by applying an edge tape over the joints formed where the original cloth had been overlapped along the edge of the surfaces. This helps seal in the overlaps, and makes them more resistant to weathering and tearing in the high speed airflow that they will work in.

6. In the next shot you can see Dick Cains laying on the sealer over an edge tape along the window ledge of the door. I learned to do the rib stitching and did the elevator that you see laying next to the door that Dick is working on. You can see the rudder, and the other elevator have had their own tapes appied, and there are two coats of polybrush applied for sealing in this view.

7. The last view shows the completed airfoil, with all the tapes, the rib stitching, and two coats of polybrush applied. It is finished, ready to install and rig on the airframe. Then two coats of a silver paint will be applied to keep out the ultraviolet sunlight which would cause damage and rotting of the fabric. Over this a single or multiple coat of the white finish paint will be applied. Other colors will be added over the white to finish the trim out to look like a Coast Guard helecopter.

Hope this detail helps someone out there.

Booster Rich.

richard lidke

03-18-2006, 09:13 PM

Hello again from us ambitious Littlewing Boosters.

1. This photo shows a nice view from a ladder of a forward looking view of my horizontal stabilizers and elevators. This is the first time that I had assembled the tail in its entirety.

2. This photo shows an angle view of the tail and you can also see the rudder and auxilliary vertical stabilizers. The white spot on the floor is the sunlight shining through the window.

3. The third photo shows the tail from a ladder looking aft. My right marker/strobe lite is easily seen in this view. Now it looks much better when the entire empennage is assembled. It also blends in nicelly showing how nice it will look on the assembly.

4. Nice side view of the assemble showing again the marker/ strobe lites mounted, internally wired.

5. The last shot here shows my friends Dick Cains and Jim McNielly who have been very supportive throughout the building of this project. Thanks guys.

Hope this can also help someone out there with what they have to look forward too.

Tailwinds : Booster Rich.

richard lidke

03-18-2006, 09:37 PM

This is the third time trying to get this updated. I keep getting cut off somethow then it is lost.

Click on the thumnails for a larger photo if you want.

1. In this photo a square is used to give proportion to the cable and fittings shown.

There are a series of two nicopress sleeves, one thimble and one clevis shown on this line.

In the following line is a cable threaded through the sleeves, thimble and clevis prior to cripmping and testing. Note the extended length of material. This is to provide a area where you can see if any movement takes place in the sleeves when testing takes place.

2. In this shot you can see the weights added to the cable on the bottom to provide tension as the hoist is tightened up on the cable. There are concrete weights each at 20 pounds, two wheel weights at 75 pounds each, and a metal container and chains which total about at least 540 pounds. This is the recommended weight (60 percent of the rated)that EAA suggests that you use when testing the cables prior to use, the cables are rated at 920 pounds pull.

3. This view shows the 2 ton hoist used to tension the cable during the test. White cardboard was positioned behind the cable so that you could see it and the parts more easily, since they are so small.

4. The next view is similar and shows how the hoist was suspended from my movable crane. I mentioned its construction above, and detailed it for one person who was interested in it. This has now been deleted I believe to save space.

5. This view shows the heat shrink material adjacent to the tested sleeves and fittings. It is slid over the cable end covering it completely, then heated slightly all around with a match to shrink it over the cable end, making it look nice and clean and factory fresh. Next to the thimble, I will apply red fingernail polish to mark the cable entrance to the sleeve. If any future movement occurs it will be easily seen at this point. The bare wires are protected from stabbing you with the heat shrink, giving that nice appearance.

6. This shot shows the heat shrink in place end complete.

7. This view shows the cables installed on my bellcrank used to trim the elevators for straight and level flying of the machine. You can also see the turnbuckles used to adjust and tension the cables to the next bellcrank just forward of the elevator.

In an earlier post, I mentioned that my first cable test failed. This was with one nicopress sleeve installed and crimped. It was crimped with a Wick small crimping tool which had never been used before, and was used in the methods recomennded for this fabrication. After the initial failure, I doubled the sleeves, recrimped and retested.

This was ok until I tested the third joint. Then they all failed again after that. So I scrapped all of the original cables, and made them over using a larger hand crimping tool which made a different pattern on the sleeves. It looked like three little marks on the sleeves, where as the original crimping tool made one mark 90 degrees to these later ones. This tool was borrowed from the airport near me at no charge.

It can be rented from Wicks or purchased outright for about 270 dollars from Wicks. Wicks was very nice about this and offeded to rent it to me for ten dollars a week when it was returned. It had to be paid for up front then the rent was deducted from the price and returned when they received the tool back.

I thought that this was very reasonable and could save any of you the problems that I had originally had.

I hope this small article will help someone with their project, and I know it will make a project much safer if you will take the time to do this.

Something I just noticed after getting my new computer and the latest windows update, is that once you point and click on a thumbnail it will become larger. After all the little dots indicate the computer is finished, you can click on that photo, and it will become larger yet, and you get little arrows at the bottom right of the picture. You can then move around on the largest phots highlighting the smaller details. This is really neat, try it! You'll really like this feature.

Best Regards....and of course....Tailwinds friends: Booster Rich.

richard lidke

05-05-2006, 06:20 PM

I would like to know more about the crane. I am in the thinking process on a shop I plan to build this spring. Can you post some pictures of it or describe it in more detail.

Thanks.

Dick, check out the last set of photos regarding the testing of the cables.

You can see some of the detail of the crane in one or two of these shots.

Best Regards Booster Rich.:)

Dick Illyes

05-06-2006, 02:40 AM

Thanks Richard, this information is very timely.

For people who want a 3D drafting package, check out the new Google free version of Sketchup. I just downloaded it this week. It is truly amazing in its ability to let you do quick 3D sketches.

richard lidke

05-27-2006, 05:17 PM

Booster Rich here.

I would like to thank all our our US Forces for their outstanding work. We must support them to help keep our country strong. I also want to thank any past military folks for the great work they have done for us throuout the many hostilities we have been through since the end of the second war.

My update today is to tell everyone how well my first coat of silver primer was achieved. It is premixed stuff from wicks called poly-spray. Simple name. It is the silver stuff you apply to prevent the ultra-violet and radiation from the sun from penetrating your cloth covering, which shortens its life.

I ordered it a couple of months ago, but wanted to get the warmer temperatures here, before I applied it to get a good job.

While I was waiting, Harbor Frieght had a sale on their little high volume, low pressure paint sprayer. It consists of a turbine vacuum-pressure unit with a shoulder strap, and a regular one quart paint gun with mix adjustment and pressure aluminum pot, just like you would paint a car with. What a nice unit, it was on sale for thirty five dollars, and I opted for a two year warranty no questions asked--replacement for an additional ten bucks.

Bought a pack of four paint strainer-paper funnels from ace for a buck twenty nine, added it paint to the gun, turned it on a boy did it work nice.

You wear this thing while you work, no air hose, no big compressor, no high pressure air to worry about. A little chepie, but boy does it do a nice job!

You may not believe this, but I was able to paint both stabilizers, both elevators, all four vertical stabilizer parts, and my door, all on both sides, with just slightly over one quart of paint.

You can't imagine how nice this silver stuff covers the sealer stuff on the dacron. It looks like its finished already, with just the first coat. I'm very happy and wanted to brag about this a little (harbor frieghts product), because it worked so nice, for such a little investment.

Spent about a day a few weeks ago making additional tabs to attach my roof lexan, and the windshield, and door and window panels. Got them all tack welded on this weekend so far.

Last weekend I finished up mounting my radio and VOR transceiver. Made an aluminum case, with an extra storage compartment which mounts between my legs in the front seat. Made it to pivot and attach at the firewall area, then it has two adjustable legs near the front seat, where it can be raised or lowered to suit the front seat occupant for ease in operation. Got its own little needle for tracking, and lights for tracking, to, from, and over the VOR transmitter, just like the later versions. It also has a transceiver radio, and switch for nav or com, just like most planes have installed in them, with the obs adjustment and the compass rose too!

I finished up all my trim controls, got them all finished gas welded, bead blasted, and zinc chromate primered, ready for the final mounting.

One more thing to do, thats get a battery, get it mounted, then I am ready to start the final finish gas welding, shot blasting, and primering of the main frame. Been a long time coming, but I'm almost there == whew! I will support my frame when I mount the battery, to allow the most balanced cg location I can get, before I fasten it permanently.

Hopefully everything will then be pretty well cg centered for the finish work.

I did finish my windshield template and cut out the lexan, did the same for the door and window materials. (Hope i'm not repeating myself).

I will probably get some more to finish up the roof and back turtledeck windows. I sat in the machine the first time today, believe it or not, I am six foot tall, weight 200 pounds, and did get in and out of both the fron and back seat, with relatively little effort. Its snug, but relatively comfortable.

The curved back seat is actually a very nice fit. Good posture for a long trip!

Been checking out engines some more. Its a big choice. I must get the best I can with the least money, since this is tough to coff up the bucks fore. Also been saving my money for the rotorhead. Getting close to that too.

Hope you other Littlewing guys are getting yours done too. Its an effort, but fun, and closer and closer to the real thing for me, you too I hope.

Have a great weekend.

Your friend, Booster Rich.:) :)

richard lidke

06-14-2006, 06:13 PM

Littlewing Booster Rich here.

Another outstanding Booster Update!

Been at it again for the last few days. Got my roof template made, received the lexan from Wicks. Traced it out and cut it out over at my friends house on his band and jig saws.

Also made templates for the lexan window and window on the hinged door.
These were made of a illustration type cardboard, then cut out at the proper extra dimension for the lexan overlap around the edges. I began by tracing the outline of the finished tubing forming the window opening for the window, and for the door. Then I added the extra overlap dimension shown on the plans for the extra lexan protrusion. After cutting out the illustration board templates, I transferred it to the lexan, then cut the lexan out to match.

Now here's the neat part some of you may want to do like I did. Next, after locating the hinges and door operating latches on the frame, mark the template you originally made with their location. Then measure off the location where you want the rivets to penetrate the outside of the tubing frame, and pass through the lexan. Draw a line across the traced outline of the tube frame where every centerline of a rivet will be located. (You may want to play around with the spacing, so that it looks nice, and is symmetrical as possible. I used a two inch center to center location where it was possible.

Now here is the very helpful part. Roll back the covering on the lexan about one inch all around both sides of the window. Tape it with masking tape to hold it away from the edge while you are working. Next, lay the lexan on the window or door frame, and securely clamp it down with the full size template with the cross lines for centerlines of the rivets under neath it, and the frame in between the cardboard template and the lexan window.

Now you can see through the lexan around the edges. Carefully drill through the lexan on each one of these centerlines (by eye, no mark needed on the painted frame), making sure you stay exactly on the center of the tubing. Then stick a cleco into all the corner holes, and on each side, or as near to the next hole that you drill, as you work your way around the frame.

Be very careful as you drill to make sure you stay centered on the tubing, if you dont, you will find that the drill will wander off the top center of the tube, sliding down the tube side and making a groove in the lexan, which neither is desired, scarring the lexan and taking the paint off the tubing.

The lexan acts wonderfully as a guide to help you drill the tubing, and you can see through it completely as you do all the drilling.

Now that the drilling is done, You can make the aluminum trim pieces, and lay them upside down under the edge of the lexan, and drill through the lexan as a template through the aluminum trim, and bingo! you have the correct spacing for the trim, and everything is now ready to assemble and rivet.

Make sure your door and window frame are finished painted, and that the hinges are installed before you finally install the lexan.

This seemed to be the easiest way to template and assemble for me, and it worked very well.

I plan to add a little brake on the edge of the aluminum trim pieces, which will protect the edge of the lexan. I may apply this over the rubber edging, which will secure it in place, and allow for the rubber backing to contact the outside of the fuselege frame.

This was another fun aspect of building my Littlewing, which I wanted to share, since I felt it was worthy of adding to the forum.

JIm McNeilly came down over the weekend, and we modified all three sets of joysticks, by adding an additional bushing two and half inches aft of both the front and back existing bushing where the joystick attached to the horizontal tube.

This was necessary to give the joysticks more room and avoid hitting the back of the front seat, when pushed forward. This also eliminated the need to make a special bent joystick to solve the problem.

These were tacked and then finished gas welded by Bob Randall. We then shotblasted them, and primered them to match the original work, ready for finish painting now.

If anyone has any questions in regards to this post, please give me a call, I'll be happy to discuss the details with any one interested.

Sincerely, Booster Rich.:) :)

richard lidke

06-25-2006, 08:01 PM

Booster Rich Here:

Weekend progress included making about sixteen trim strips to go around the windows on both sides of the fuselege.

I purchased a 2 x 4 foot sheet of 22 thousandths thick aluminum from Wicks. For my luck, it came with a plastic covered side on one side, and a nice high polish. This was good since it allowed the forming to take place without scratching the outside, where it will be trim to highlight the area surround the window edges.

We took the sheet of aluminum and layed it out in strips of one and three sixteenths inches wide. A friend had a foot operated shear which we used to cut the strips nice and even. I was very pleased at the true dimensions that we were able to obtain in this fashion.

Next we layed out the brakes with blueing and scribe marks for a 1/8 inch ninety degree brake, and two 3/16" brakes at 30 degrees per the drawing. We found that we couldn't make a 1/16" brake, in that the hand brake press just wouldn't hold the forming that close to the edge.

This was my idea, which didn't work, so we went to a 1/8 90 degree brake, which worked out fine. This brake is to trim the edge of the lexan windows all around their edges, and to protect them from damage, and of course to make a rough plastic edge nice and square and straight. It adds a lot of eye appeal to what you see when you walk up to the machine.

We made the 90 and two 30 degree brakes on sixteen pieces, which can now be laid under the already drilled lexan on 2 inch centers and drilled for the rivets which will hold the lexan, and trim to the door and window frames.

This is really working out swell. I told you above how we drilled the lexan, now it is easy to use the lexan as a template to drill the trim which forms its surround. Clean and easy. Just the way I like it.

I was also able to layout templates for the rear windows this weekend and get one of the plywood frames cut out and polyurethaned.

I am making the rear windows of lexan 3/4" larger than the cutout opening. I will surround the lexan with a rubber seal/edge strip which I am ordering from Wicks. I am also making the two top windows in the turtle deck of lexan in the same fashion. They were made by cutting out cardboard templates, then laying out a hole for the lexan.

Next the layout is transferred to the playout and cut out. Next the cutout in the plywood window is used to transfer a outline to another template, which is surrounded by a 3/4" wide edge. This is then layed out for the rivets (on cardboard) on 2" spacing. Then this template is transferred to lexan, and it is cutout.

Now when the plywood windows are attached to the airframe, the cloth will be brought up around the frames, and then the lexan with its predrilled holes, will be used to drill the wood frame, then attached to the wood covered with cloth frame, with its rubber edging, and finish riveted to the frame, providing a finished window which is attractive, functional, and nice to look at.

One other small thing which I accomplished this weekend, was to layout three small ribs for the landing gear struts which will be covered.

These (the struts), were finished welded and primed a long time ago, and now I am getting them ready for mounting to the airframe. I measured off three positions which I wanted to have a rib under the cloth. Then I used the drafting board to layout the curves to the ribs on a cardboard template for each. This was transferred to the 1/8 plywood scraps which I had left from the window frames, with the centerlines of the tubes on the struts.

This wood was then hole sawed for the 1" tubes, drilled for the 1/2" tubes, and then the parts were cut out on the bandsaw. I then drilled them and glued and attached them to the wheel struts. I will then sand them down to match the curve smoothly of the the steel tubes that they attach to. After sanding and finishing the wood, they will be cloth covered and treated as were the tail parts recently.

I also added drain grommets to the outside of the door, all the elevators, and the stabilizers where internal condensation will need to be drained. These grommets consist of a small washer like part made of 10 thousandths thick aluminum, which is glued to the surfaces close to the edge. It is then polybrushed to seal it, then the drain holes are burned through the fabric in its center, which forms a reinforced drain hole where the fabric will not tear. This is then painted over, to form the finsihed part.

The small vertical stabilizers were not drained because they are made of wood on the inside, and should not be subject to consensation/corrosion as would the steel framed larger parts.

I have been taking pictures of these parts, and as soon as practicable, will add them into this string on the forum.

Got my final sheet of plywood and lexan ordered. This will finish up all the windows and window frames which I have already made the cardboard templates for.

I also continued to make more steel fasteners for the parts to weld to the frame, as attachment points. It would be wise for anyone making this model to make at least 200 or more of thes little clips, because you will use and use and use them all over the frame as attachpoints where you will rivet your parts to the airframe. Make a strip the width of the clips, lay them out, drill them, then sand each one of the ends round on your belt sander, then cut them off the strip.

Believe me this makes it much easer to handle them, because they get hot when you are sanding on the rounded ends. Then cut them off on the saw, and clean up the edges before welding them to the airframe.

You might be interested to know that I have used 16 band saw blades so far on the little harbor freight saw we bought at the start for about 150 bucks.

It is a must to have a band saw, grinder for tubing radius's and one inch wide belt sander for finishing all the small parts.

These small tools are being used continuously in the Littlewing construction.

Have a great day my friends.

Best Regards, Booster Rich. :) :)

richard lidke

08-26-2006, 07:03 PM

Yes friends, were still at it hot and heavy.

Littlewing Booster Rich here.

As we near Labor Day, we can all be thankful for the blessings that God has given us this year.

I hope to be able to visit Jim Mc Neilly again soon so as to be able to post a few more photographs to update our string here.

This weekend I have been busy as usual. I am currently adding hinges and sides to the top cowling which will be attached down to the bottom edge of the front of the airframe. This will allow me to have access to my radio gear, the underneath area of the fuel tank, my forward rudder pedals etc. for inspection, adjustment etc., as may be required.

I pondered this aspect of metal sides, versus cloth. Because the cloth is so permanent, and non-removable, I decided to make the sides of light gage aluminum, and a hinge of aluminum, to allow access, which I feel is both desired, and necessary in future operations of the vehicle.

Bob Randall came over Thursday nite this week and finish welded the primary joint connection where the strut attach point is located, so that I could mount the bracket (tack welded) on the right side of the airframe.

With this done, I can add the aluminum access door as I am now doing on the left side of the airframe. With the bracket located, I can notch out the door to clear the bracket and get its attachment finished.

With the doors both attached, I will locate and attach both pair of landing gear strut brackets to the bottom of the airframe. These were some of the first parts that we made two winters ago, and have been waiting paitently for their mounting since then. I installed the finished, trimmed window in the frame on its hinges first, to make sure there was no interference with the window opening and closing, with the bracket tacked permanently in its place.

I will do this too on the right side, but with the door attached to its hinges.

Got all the window work done for the door, but had a problem with the finish paint from Wicks. When I ordered the paint, I was not aware that it required some kind of other product added to it to make it dry.

The label on the can only had the paint name on it, nothing else, there was no paper work to indicate any additional requirements, and no one mentioned it to me when I ordered the paint, so dummy me (you remember the mushroom scenario), took the paint and applied it to my rudder and door. Boy it went on nice, and looked wonderful.

Guess what, after three weeks, its still isn't dry. So I called Wicks. The manager lady there was very nice, and helpful. She called the factory for me and found out what was wrong. I explained all that I had done, and all about what I was sent.

She was very accommodating and provided me replacement paint, the hardner/dryer, and some MEK to get the old no-drying stuff off. Wicks has proven to be a very reputable and honest company. I like dealing with them, and have been since the start of this project.

I have finished up all my window frames, all the lexan windows, and am finishing up an aluminum trim strip which will overlay the rubber edged lexan when it is fastened to the cloth covered window frames, to add strength to the lexan/rivet area, and to add as a asthetically pleasing surround for the window areas. My bird will have six windows. Two in the front, two in the back seat, and two in the turtledeck, for enhanced upward vision, both to view traffic, and check on the rotorhead operations from time to time.

I was able to purchase my rotorhead at the Mentone gathering. I had contacted Ernie in Florida about two weeks prior to Mentone, and he had brought it up with him for me from Florida. It is the heavy duty rotor head, with slider, and teeter limiters, which Ron Herron recommended to me for the Littlewing two place. Sold some scrap aluminum, and my Littlewing jigs, to pay for the rotorhead. As purchased it was $ 1200.

Once I get all the tacking finished on the frame, and Bob Randall gets started finishing the welding for me, I will go to the rotor head mode, and get all the bracket and extra stuff mounted on it while the frame work is being taken care of by more competent people than I.

I did make a couple of nice extras too, which I added tabs to the frame for. One is a cover piece of 1/8" plywood, which covers the hole in the area behind the back seat and the tunnel in the turtle deck. I added a circle simulating the sun painted yellow, with a nice star painted red, with my name on it. It looks nice and adds to the interior beauty of the product.

The other was a tapered rack again of 1/8" plywood, with holes to lighten it. This is sort of like a little magazine rack. It attached to the right side of the fuselege, and provides a nice custom touch of varnished wood for beauty, while providing a nice place to store maps, and my log book, and any other logs or whatever I may need on cross country trips. It is right below my right arm rest, and is easily accessed during flight as might be required.

I will post pictures of these items as soon as I can.

Thats about it for tonght friends.

Hope you all are having a great summer, and all those Littlewings are moving right along.

Best Regards, Booster Rich.:D :D

richard lidke

08-30-2006, 06:11 PM

Booster Rich here.

I have a suggestion to you all who are working on Littlewings. If you haven't made some of the tabs yet for attachment points, you surely will

This is what has worked best for me (made several hundred already)

Cut .065 4130 chromoly into strips 5/8" wide. Then mark them off at one inch incremens on the strips. The layout can be accomplished easily if you leave the layout work all on a piece that you haven't cut the strip off from yet.

After laying out a strip 5/8" wide, the full length of your piece of metal, then after marking off the one inch increments, drop back 1/4" from the one inch mark and scribe another line. Then drop down from that line another 5/16" and scribe another line. Do this from each one inch mark you had already made.

Now draw a centerline down the entire lenght of the layout piece (5/16" from either the outside edge, or the as yet uncut layout edge).

Now saw the entire strip off of the piece you are working with. Then center punch where the center line crosses all the lines you made at the 5/16" dimension mentioned above.

Now center punch only those intersection points. Using a drafting circle template, select a hole 5/8" in diameter, and lay out a one half circle around the top of the center punch mark, tangent with the line you layed out at the 1/4" measurement listed above. Now you can see how each tab looks before you begin work on them.

Of course you use blueing before starting to scribe line on the metal so you can see it better. Most hardware stores have this stuff, one brand is made by Starrett, who also makes all kinds or compasses and layout tools etc.

Now drill the centerpunch marks out on a drill press about .002 thousandths over 1/8" diameter hole. This will make it easy for your 1/8" rivets to go through. Now sand the back of the piece where the drill point broke through leaving a burr around the hole. If you use numbered size drills, you just look up like .128" diameter, and use it.

Now take the first tab, and sand it round following the scribed half circle you had layed out. Next, drop down to the line scribed just below the hole you just drilled (the bottom of the tab) and cut the tab off on your bandsaw. Next take the strip and cut off the space left between the just cut line, and the top of the radius you scribed on the next tab.

This method makes tabs that are 3/4" long and 5/8" wide when you are finished. A little scrap piece separates the pieces, so you can cut on the outside of the line of the bottom of the tab above without sacrificing its lenght to being a saw cut short each time. Make sense?

Now knock off the burrs from the bottom edge of the first tab, it may be hot so be careful, they usually burn my fingers pretty easy. Knock off the sharp corners, and sand the edges and the radius top and bottom. Check both sides of the hole to see if any burrs remain, sand as required.

Next take the tab to your wirewheel on your grinder and polish the bottom edge only on the front and back of the tab. It is now ready to weld on to you frame where ever you need it for an attach point.

Repeat as many times as you need tabs. The big advantage here is that you can hang on to the long strip as you are finishing these tabs, and it gives you a good way to handle them and move them around safely while they are getting hot were you are rounding off the end.

This is so much easier than making one at a time, you won't believe how much better it is till you try it. Believe me this steel gets very hot as you are sanding and working it. I usually cut out ten or fifteen from each strip every time I do this. A few extras always come in handy. This is a boring job, but you probably will make a couple of hundred of these before your done, so keep a stiff upper lip, grin and bear it, cause its just gonna happen.

Find something else to do while doing this once in a while, I don't enjoy this much, but I still do it quite often. That way it breaks up the monotny, and makes it more pleasant as you continue.

I made a good little chepie alignment tool out of a piece of tin. Drill a hole the same size as the tab in about 1/2" from the edge of a piece of tin about 3 or four inches wide. After drilling the hole, cut a little material away on both sides of the hole and about 1/16 from the edge of the hole. Now you can put a cleco in from the backside to hold your tab up against the bottom side of the tin, and clamp the tin to the tubing wherever you want to weld the tab on to the frame.

By cutting away a little around the hole, you allow yourself room to tack weld the tab to the frame, without welding the tin on to the frame too. After the weld is done (two little tack welds) pull the cleco out from behind the tin, remove the clamps holding the tin in place, and WALA your tab is nicely positioned exactly where you want it, and it is flush with the edge of the tubing just like you wanted it to be, since the tin held it there nicely while you were working on it.

I have used the same piece of tin throughout the tack welding of all of my tabs, so it is cheap and dirty, but does the job well. It works well on tabs flush with the inside or outside of the frame. "Try it you'll like it".

Thats the 2 cents worth for tonight friends.

Have a great week, and hope you have a nice Labor Day Weekend too!

Best Regards, Booster Rich.:) :)

richard lidke

09-04-2006, 05:40 PM

Hello friends.

Booster Rich here.

Just finished up "ALL" frame tack welding.

I mentioned making tabs above in an earlier post.

Here are some statistics:

1. Regular tabs on my airframe 152
2. Special tabs 16
3. Structural tabs for windshield/firwall attach rods 3
4. Brake and rudder tabs (slanted) 8
5. Landing gear strutt attach tabs 8
6.. Landing gear strutt brackets 2
7. Special seat tabs 16
8. Special radio attach point tabs 2
9. Special large antenna attach tabs 2
10 Special coax attachment brackets/tabs 2

The regular tabs are 5/8" x 3/4" and have a hole for a 1/8" rivet, which most connections are made with.

Other tabs are heavier and of other sizes, but most are retangular with rounded corners, and a single hole through them.

I have made all the windows, window frames, window trim strips, door with windows, the lexan roof, the lexan windshield, both cowling sides, and all the bottom pans from the rear of the back seat to the tail.

I have also made a trim system, and rigged the cables, and made the bell cranks to operate them, and there is a follower system, which indicates the position of the trim made in both the back and front seat areas. The trim is manipulated with two little aluminum spin wheels which I purchased from a tool and die supply catalog. I drilled a lot of extra holes in these to lighten them up a bit.

I also finished up my battery rack mounting and made two aluminum rails for the battery to purchase on. Lock downs will be added when the battery is installed on the final fit up.

Whew! Been a busy weekend. Fixed the brakes on my blazer too!

Hope all of you rotary folks had an excellent Labor Day weekend.

I was able to get my rotorhead at Mentone, so now while the finish welding is taking place, I can concentrate on the mast and appurtances, plus sundry other finishup items. We are getting there! Its all fun too.

Have a great day friends. Booster Rich.:) :)

richard lidke

09-16-2006, 01:45 PM

Here's a little stuff on the following block of photographs. For a larger enhanced view, simply click on the thumbnails.

1. This shot shows a look down the edge of one of the landing gear struts after I had added the 1/8" plywood ribs for the dacron covering, providing a smooth airfloil like profile for the cloth to adhere to. There was no rib stitching added to these ribs. The cloth was tightened with an iron, then extra reinforcing tapes were added to the outside of the ribs, and edges of the struts.

2. This shot shows the rib carboard cutouts that I used to trace onto the rib wood. I made these on my drafting board using the same profile as the wing like stabilizers on the tail. That is if I remember correctly 25% in from the edge 10 t0 15% of the profile center line to centerline dimension in height. My work center was a piece of leftover cardboard from one of my wicks shipments on top of a empty barrel.

3. This view shows how I glued my ribs to the tubes after marking the centerlines to be used on them. This centerline allowed me to get the spacing even, and measure at each pair of tubes to get the center distance for my drawing of the templates. At the centerline dimension, I cut the hole in the wood with a hole saw, before cutting out the profile. These ribs were all made of scrap drop offs from the other wood parts, such as the seat bottoms and backs.

4. This view shows a nice side profile of the ribs glued on to the struts. You can see how nice the gorrilla glue sticks them in place. It expands as it drys and really makes an excellent connection between the primed metal and wood parts. I have used it extensively on all my wood/metal work with excellent results, and it has the added benefit of being waterproof.

5. This view shows the struts with their final two coats of finish enamel prior to covering. I used a local hardware store brand of rust inhibiting paint. These parts are now sealed, ready for covering. The wood ribs had three coats of polyurethane before white paint was added.

6.This final view shows the two struts with one covered, prior to iron heat shrinking of the cloth. The other shows the two pieces of cloth which were traced around the strut, allowing about 1/2" of extra material all around before glueing commenced. This cloth work is really fun, and the results you obtain really make you feel good about the work that you are doing.

mcbirdman

09-16-2006, 01:49 PM

Rich's Progress Photos

richard lidke

09-16-2006, 01:59 PM

1. This photograph shows the belly pan directly under my seat. It has a little door allowing full access to the cable connection for the rotor head just under the back seat.
It also has a strobe in this area. With this portal, I have complete access to this connection for inspection, and adjustment from below the tiltable, removable rear seat bottom, and through this opening from below.

If you cover the belly and tail completely, you will loose access to this stuff, therefore I put these little pans on instead.

2. This shot shows my application of the rubber strip to protect the edge of the window material, and to waterproof its closure, where this seal comes in to contact with the airframe. This was glued on with an earcleaner and a little gorilla glue. A little does a lot.

3. This view shows how the rivet holes look through the lexan and steel tubing of the window frame. Peel about an inch or so of the lexan away from the edge while you are drilling through the lexan, with it clamped firmly to the tubing, then go through the tubing too. The lexan helps hold the drill in the right spot while you do this. I used a hand held drill with a bit about .002 oversize to make the rivets fit good.

4. In this view, the door, already covered is shown with its window being drilled for the door tubing rivet holes. I made a cardboard template with the centerlines laid out with a black felt marker (narrow tip), laid it under the tubing and lexan. Then I could see the centerlines my rivets need to be on from outside the edge of the tubing and through the stripped back edge of the lexan.

I eyeballed across this centerline to the center of the tubing as I drilled the holds. It worked perfectly. I then used the lexan for a template to backdrill my aluminum edge material after it was securely fitted and clamped to the edge of the rubber covered edge of the lexan. It worked perfectly for this template, and all three sets of holes i.e lexan, aluminum, steel tubing, aligned perfectly with the clecos in place for all of the holes.

By the way, the hinge material is under the edge of the aluminum trim and lexan in its area, so all you will see will be the hing pin, and the upper hing material. The upper material (aluminum trim) will also cover the upper part of the hinge when the roof material is installed, making a nice "factory look" to the finished edges. I will not permanently rivet on the lexan and trim, until the door is finished painted white, since this is under the edge of the lexan on the cloth covered area of the door. I also painted the trim white on the inside, before finish riveting it on, since the color matches better on the inside where you can see it from the cockpit. The bare shiny aluminum looks great as it is on the outside, so I plan to leave that its natural color. (Got to have something to polish you know!)

5. This last shot shows how nice the horizontal stabilizer (with strobe) looks with the aluminum sun proofing applied to the cloth. It is ready for finish painting in this mode.

mcbirdman

09-16-2006, 02:05 PM

Rich's Progress Photos

richard lidke

09-16-2006, 02:08 PM

1. This first shot shows the tab alignment tool that I mentioned in an above post. Here you can see it is made of a scrap piece of tin. Notice carefully how I notched it out. It holds the tab from the back side with a cleco while you align it with the tubing, and it holds the tab flush with the outside of the tubing while you tack weld the tab in place. This is a common rivet connection on a Littlewing. Note my numbers in the post above. I used this same piece of tin to align all the tabs on the whole airframe. Just put a bigger hole in it if you need to for a tab with a larger rivet or bolt hole. Put a washer on the cleco, and it still holds fine, without buying a larger size cleco for those special ones.

2. This second shots shows the same alighment template holding another tab in place. Notice how I used two thin strips of wood clamped to the template. This way the tin is held absolutely perfect with the outside across adjoining tubing, and making for a nice flat connection for the item which is to be riveted in this location.

3. This next shot shows how I took two standard die wheels and drilled them out to lighten them for use in my trim wheels on the airframe. I drilled the center hole in the lathe
along with finish turning the back diameter, and shoulder face to length.

Then I took some clamp fixture I had previously made and used them for a fixture to hold the wheels in the proper position while I drilled around the perimeter, and face on blue layout lines, providing a nice even spacing. They were then clamped in the three jaw chuck on the lathe and spun and polished, removing the burrs from drilling, and again giving them a nice polish for finish use.

4. IN this view, I have painted both the front and back of the wheels with red enamel paint. It makes them look real nice especially where the oblique holes show through the red paint.

5. This shot shows the rear side windows. It consists of 1/8" plywood frame made to attach to tabs around the edge of the mounting, then a lexan window, which is shown drilled and ready for mounting on the frames. The frames will be attached with rivets along the forward edge, and the bottom edge.

The top edge will float with the cloth which overlaps it on the outside. The back edge fits into a groove in the piper channel facing outward and is attached with simple cotter pins, as are the horizontal turtle deck ribs on the airframe. The cloth will come up and completely cover these frames before the lexan with its rubber edging is applied to the outside.

Then the lexan will be riveted down with the aluminum trim strips you will find shown here. This will provide a weather tight seal all around each window, and the wood will be sealed waterting inside the outer cloth covering, where you won't even know its there from the outside, once covered and painted.

The rivets will have a aluminum washer on the inside of the wood, where they do not penetrate a steel tab for connection.

6. This view shows the turtle deck windows. This will allow one to see above the aircraft from the back seat, and keep an eye on the rotor head operations from time to time. It follows the same pattern as the side windows. The back also fits into the piper channel which faces up, and is attached in back with a simple cotter pin, and mentioned before.

7. This shot shows the trim strips that I mentioned above, which go on the outside edge of the windows with the rubber edging underneath. It allows the rivet to have a firm grip on the lexan and a firm tie of the rubber seal, down to the cloth, where is is pressed against the wood frame, after the connection is completed.

This is a thin gauge aluminum, which has all the inside cut out and only a small strip is left to border and trim the window edge. I started with a holesaw in the corners, to make it easy to get a snip inside and begin to nibble out the metal within. You must be careful not to crip or wrinkel the material, to keep it flat and nice when you install it over the lexan.

8. This last shot shows the airframe on its side, with the front cowling in place. I elected to make an aluminum cover hinged on both sides for easy access to my radio gear and front foot brakes and rudder controls. This is not designed to swing all the way up, but rather swing out a little, then remove when the hinge pin is pulled out.

With the window in place, I was able to fit, tack and make sure that the upper attach point for the landing gear would not interfere with the window corner, nor its opening operation. I did not want to notch the finished window.

You can see if you point and click on this thumbnail, where I added the tabs for attachment of the side panels. Each of them has a little larger tab with a 1/4" speed nut applied over the tab. This allows you to put the machine screws in from the outside, and requires no holding or fastening of the nut on the inside. These speed nuts are readily available at any hardware store. I used 1/4" in my application. They are thin and light very strong tempered steel.

mcbirdman

09-16-2006, 02:11 PM

Rich's Progress...

richard lidke

09-16-2006, 02:17 PM

.1. In this first view you can see the lower cowling sheet piano hinged to the top curved cowling section. With the left side window installed to insure no interference, the landing gear upper strutt bracket was tacked on. I will mention how I positioned it in a later photo.

With the part mounted like this, I was assured that I would not have to trim the front corner of my window frame, which I had worked so hard to make it look nice. There is about a 1/16" clearance around the bracket and lower cowl sheet. The sheet can be completely removed by removing the eight machine screws, and pulling the pin out of the piano hinge across its top edge. This provides complete access on both sides to my rudder pedals with their cable terminations and springs, and the heel brakes. Behind them is my radio, you will see pictured below, which is removed by pulling four pins, for service or adjustment. It fits nicely nacelled between the legs of the front seat passenger.

2. The second photo here shows how I placed two 3/4" thick strips of wood into the channel of the bracket, then clamped them down against a flat strip of metal which was laid across two of the outer frame tubes.

This kept the bracket square, parallel with the tube it was centered on, and allowed me to pisition it to a place which would give clearance to the bottom edge of the window/door projection on this right side of the airframe.

If you look closely, you can see the trim strips which I made according to the plans, but with a little 1/16" 90 degree brake, which hangs down over the rubber seal strip, protecting it and the edge of the lexan all around the bottom three sides of the window. Both windows up front had the rubber strip added as shown above.

3. The next photo shows the right side lower cowl sheet being set and adjusted to clear the bracket which was just tacked on in the last picture. I added 8 tabs on each side which were a little larger, to accept a 1/4 stainless steel machine screw, which passed thru the aluminum skin, and into a speed nut, slipped on over the tab, inside. With this no nut needs to be held, or welded to make the connection. If the threads go bad, you only have to replace the speed nut itself, since it slips on and off the tab easily. Cost for the nut is about 25 cents.

4. The next five pictures all show details of how I lined up the landing gear struts. They are positioned with the outer two tabs on each side with bolts through the holes, while the struts are swing together while the airframe is up side down. This I was assured by Ron was the way to do it to keep them in proper alignment.

It was easy, and really worked out well to keep them properly positioned while I tacked the outer four on. Once the outer four tabs were tacked on, I removed the two struts and added the additonal inner two tabs on each side, positioning them with 1/4" threaded rod and nuts, through the first set of holes. This allowed me to position them easily, and tack them in with the correct spacing of one inch for the strut connections.

After these additional tabs were tacked, I again put the struts back on, clamped and tied them as before, to insure proper alignment had been achieved. It had, and they came off, and went on easily. The last view shows the tabs all in place at the base of the strutt on the left in the picture.

I had been tossing this around in my dreams, and just doing it this way seemed the most plausible and practical, and it sure worked well for me.

richard lidke

09-16-2006, 02:21 PM

OK, here I am editing to add verbage again. Click thumbnails to enlarge.

1. This view shows the rotary stand that I made from scrap wood and a few leftover pieces of threaded rod, with a few deck screws.

It allows one to fully rotate the airframe 180 degrees, for tack welding, and finish welding as progress continues. It will also be used to allow the best angle to blast the frame, prior to cleaning and priming. Cost to me nil. Usefullness, very much so.

2. This next shot shows the airframe from astern, again tipped to the right. It is attached by two u-bolts around the vertical tail post. I cushioned the tube with about five wraps of tape where the clamp goes around the tubing.

Also the piece of wood behind the tube, has about six holes drilled in in to allow you to adjust the height of the tail versus the height of the nose of the aircraft for the best balance, and clearance from the floor, when rotating it to work on it.

3. This view shows a little closer up of the nose attached via the engine mounting bolt holes, to a piece of scrap 3/4" plywood. With this plywood, I scribed centerlines for balance, and put a single piece of threaded rod through it into a scrap bracket I had left over from some other project.

Without too many internal parts installed the airframe balances out nicely. Once I have everything mounted and the frame covered, I will balance the nose and frame here, then add the battery to its sliding position on two aluminum angles, to adjust the weight to get a good horizontal balance when finished.

This can only help relieve some of the unnecessary stick pressure that an unbalanced condition would cause. (From left to right that is).

4. Yes he really does exist. Here is a nice picture of my Friend Bob Randall, executing his gas welding techniques on my airframe.

Bob is a retired seasoned plumber, who has many years of sweat soldering experience. He had also attended a course on welding at EAA headquarders, presented by an consultant on welding for NASA, prior to working on any of the airframes.

We have been very careful in clamping and attaching bracing to keep warpage minimized during all of our welding operations.

The tubing, will move if you do not do this, not that that it bad, but may not add to the looks of the frame, if you are not careful. Bob is one of the three of us original Littlewing Boosters who started working on these three frames, about 2 and one half years ago.

Bob lives close to me, so we are able to review our work before proceeding fairly easily. Jim McNeilly lives about 2 hours away, so he and I make frequent trips back and fourth from here to his place, to see how each of us are getting on with production. (Remember progress is our only product!)

5. This is a view of my windshield. I made a illustration board cutout template with the front of the aircraft, before tracing and cutting this out of the expensive Lexan. The Lexan, seems to be very easy to work with. It is very flexible, and is not brittle like plexiglass. Wicks supplied this stuff, and believe it or not it was made by GE here in Indiana. A plus in my book, made in USA, and even close to home!

6. This is my see through roof. I was also made by overlaying an illustration board, making a template, then cutting out the lexan. It drops down on either side of the roof, and will be attached, front to back with rivets, thru tabs, and then at the sides with more tabs, supplimented with rubber edging, and the same aluminum trim strips that I fabricated for the edges of the front two windows.

7. These two parts, are belly pans, which attach up under the airframe with rivets neat the tail. They include the most aft panel with my ELT, and corresponding wires. The next forward panel, is right behind the back seat, and includes the two strobe power supplies, with leads leading to the two horizontal tail stabilizers.

The two parts with the wires shown, are the connectors, which I made of plywood, and which attach to the airframe, providing a socket that the wiring from the stabilizer will plug into, through the cloth covering.

This way they can be romoved without any wire connections giving any problems. This will provide easy acces for checking continuity, and inspections, as they may be riquired.

The connectors are done, the right one is finished painted white, the one on the left has three coats of polyurethane, for waterproffing, but will also be white painted for finish.

You will also notice a single covering, of aluminum foil, to protect the wiring from ultraviolet sun radiation, and also shield the rf which may be generated by the eddy currents within the airframe. The idea being to supress static in the radio transmissions.

8.The last photo in this set is another belly pan with a strobe on it. It also allows one to remove two thumb screws for complete underneath access to the "T" connection under the seat where the control cables leave the joystick inroute up to the rotorhead, for forward/aft movement.

I have additionally made the back seat cushion, tiltable, and romovable for access to this so important connection from inside the cabin area. The back of the backseat, is also completely removable, by pulling four pull pins, for complete access behind the seat, to the battery area, and sundry other electrical items, which would otherwise be nearly impossible to access through a finish covered airframe.

richard lidke

09-16-2006, 02:23 PM

1.This fine photo (ya sure) taken by a standard, throw away camera, is of my radio.

I was very lucky in obtaining this unit. My good friend Mel Lamb of Scherrillville Indiana, gave this to me after donating his Sonerai to a Museum here in La Porte. It has a VOR, inner, middle, and outer marker lights, and voice communication capabilities.

I fabricated its enclosure out of thin aluminum, folding it in a 24 inch handbrake, which Mel had also given me for the project. The encloure allows the radio to tilt, and be removed, again with pull pins. It also includes a storage box for maps, sandwich etc, which is located between the legs of the front seat passenger, or pilot.

2. This shows the radio enclosure from the side. Removing five screws from either side allows the radio to be removed in its entirety for service, etc.

3. This is the preceptor fuel tank which is to be located under the cowling. Note, I had to add an extra little piece of plastic tubing to extend the top of the cap up high enough to project through the top of the aluminum. It will be glued in with gasoline proof adhesive, as is the seams of the tank.

These tanks have had a history of leaks, but I have been assured that these problems have been corrected, addional rivets have been added all around the seams, and a better sealant is now used. Make sure to fill and test your tank, before permanently installing it in the airframe. A leak inside a new machine, would certainly be smelly and dangerous to say the least.

By the way, these tanks are slow to get, so order early, and hold your breath. Mine took a couple of months and prodding to get, but finally arrived.

4. Bottom view of same tank.

5. One of the horizontal stabilizers, with two coats of the aluminum sun inhibitor paint, and look close and see the strobe light on the outer curved surface.

6. This is the neat little sabre saw, which I picked up from Harbor Freight. It was on sale for 60 bucks, and with a cupon, which came with the sale paper, gave me an extra 20 per cent off, giving a final new price of 41 bucks.

Nice little saw, includes extra blades, allen wrenches, is all cast iron, variable speed, has a blow off feature for dust, and didn't even shake the table it was on when I used it. It was great to saw out the wood parts from the 1/8" plywood that I used to make accessories from.

7. A star is born! Just kidding of course. I made a little detail to put behind the back seat to close up the area going back into the turtle deck. I didn't want this open in cold weather, which I hope I can fly in when completed. (A Little wing all weather vehicle with heat!).

8. And last but not least, my little storage bin. It is a wooden box, 2" wide at the top, 1" wide at the bottom, which will be located just under my right elbow rest in the back seat. This will give me a little storage space for maps, my log book, gum, sunglasses, etc. when I make those so longed for cross country flights. Is this a book or what?

Hope you enjoyed my new photo's. Jim and I worked hard to bring them to you here. Tailwinds friends, Booster Rich.

WHY

09-16-2006, 03:04 PM

Rich, looks like this is going to be a judges dream come true

Tony

richard lidke

12-26-2006, 06:35 PM

Ok, now I am home and can take care of business.

Thanks for taking the time to view our hotbed of gyro activity again. I am a little after the fact in posting these photographs. The reason is that I did not know that they could be loaded on a disc at the time that I had them developed.

To make them available, Jim Mc Neilly and I spent a good part of yesterday taking pictures of thses pictures with his first class professional camera which instantly changes the old glossies to a digital image.

We then went from the Studio downtown in Grand Ledge, to his home photo activity center, where we edited, cropped and color enhanced the following stuff to make it more presentable to you viewers.

Click on a thumbnail as before to enlarge them if you wish.

1. This first shot shows the two horizontal stabilizers in process with the newly installed wiring extending into the vertical stabilizer area of our tail section. All the ribs are of steel "piper channel", enhanced with wooden glued on curved top and bottom ribs which provide the actual air foil curve.

These provided a good place to pull the wires for my forward red/green running lights, side mounted strobes (double flash), and rear facing white lamps for night running.

All the stabilizer parts were finish gas welded by Bob Randall, then steel shot blasted to white metal, two coats of yellow zinc chromate were added. Then the wooden enhancements for the curves were added, followed by three coats of polyurethane. After this the wiring was passed through a separate hole for each wire, to keep the low height profile of the rib, and without piercing the steel portion of the rib.

I was lucky to have just the right amount of room to do this at the highest point on the airfoil curve in each rib, top and bottom. There are six wires of high temperature glass coated wiring (rated at 600 degrees F.) pulled for each lamp assembly. The units are available through Wicks of Illinois.

2. This view shows the way I provided a socked assembly riveted to the horizontal stringers of the frame to provide a quick disconnect for all of the wiring, should I wish to remove the stabilizers. I used readily available nylon socked assemblies (I was lucky to find six prong units) then glued them into plywood sockets which were to be riveted to the frame.

These plywood sockets are tipped directly in line with the sloping curve of the airfoil vertical stabilizer. I ran a wire over the horizontal stringer up to the top, to set the angle of these pieces, before I tacked the welding tabs onto the stringer.

3. This is a nice shot of the entire stabilizer before covering. You can see the little 45 degree 1/4" dia piece of tubing that I added to the one rib to provide a more stabile mounting point to tie in the outer vertical stabilizers, to both the top and bottom ones, which attach seperately with their own 1/4" aluminum rod for attachment.

At the intersection of that little 45 degree piece, I welded a little tube which allows a 3/16 bolt to pass thru, which attaches to a brace on both the top and bottom of the bolt. Made a very nice and sturdy mounting. The piper channel is quite flimsy by itself, and this helped reinforce the area where it attached very nicely.

4. This fiew shows the rudder with its added dummy horizontal ribs, before I had finished them. They are not on the plans, but added very little weight, and gave me a good place to rib stitch the dacron on to the rudder. You can see it finished up in views above this one.

5. This view shows the little 90 degree angle piece that I fabricated to hold the lamp assembly. It is made of 60 thousandths 4130 with holes to match the lamp assembly. If you look closely, you will see the riveted nut fasteners which allow the stainless steel allen screws to come into the part from the lamp assembly.

This precludes any need to have to have a wrench on the inside as you remove the lamb assembly for repairs/replacement, should the need arise.

6. This view shows a nice side view of how the wooden supplemental rib curves were added. They were cut from aircraft fir on a small jig saw, tapered to match the reverse taper on the rib, then glued with gorilla glue very successfully to each of the top and bottoms of the ribs.

The front and back of each rib was carefully measured, then the rib curves were laid out for each rib separately, matching the formula given by Ron Herron in his plans. A cardboard template was made, then the wood was cut out, glued on carefully, and sanded and sanded and sanded, to give a nice smooth curve exactly intersecting with the front and rear tube diameters.

7. This shot shows how I allowed an extra 6 inches of wire n each end to make my cable terminations. One end goes into a crimp on lug which is inserted into the quick disconnect nylon piece, while the other end has an attached Thomas and Bettes crimp on terminal spade type lug.

I did a bit of looking for thise lugs, to make sure that they had a complete nylon encapsulation, after they were pushed together, so that no wire component which might be bare could ever come into contact with the metal ribs or horizontal tubing.

8. This view shows one of the small vertical two piece stabilizers on the outboard end of the horizontal stabilizer, where the wires come through, and out of the end fixture mounting piece. This all had to be planned and made prior to any covering of the parts. All the wiring was sealed into the wood components, then covered with a tinfoil wrap, then tie wrapped.

This provided a UV shield for the wires from the sunlight, and should help suppress static noise in the radio transmissions, from the high voltage capacitance discharge to the strobe lights. The next two photographs show a few more details of the stabs, etc. before the stabs and horizontal stabs were covered.

My little stabs also have added wooden ribs which give them an airfoil curve too!. Lots of detail work -- whew!:) :)

richard lidke

12-26-2006, 06:37 PM

I thought I had included one more shot of one of these vertical stabs. What you cant see from this side, is that there is a vertical triangular shaped piece of aluminum stretching from the centerlines of each of the three fasteners.

This 030 thick piece of aluminum added a lot of stiffness and strength to the wooden 1/8" thick plywood that they were constructed of.

You may not be able to see in these views, but these alumininum sheets were riveted through the plywood, then painted, along with the aluminum, so it is hard to see it here.:usa2:
.

richard lidke

12-26-2006, 06:42 PM

:usa2: I am home now.

Point and click for enlarged shots please.

1. This is a table top shot of all the little plywood "biscuits" which are used to patch up plywood imperfections. You can buy them in the hardware stores in various sizes. When I saw them, I immediately thought of how well they would work to provide a nose and tail piece curve to give my horizontal landing gear struts a nice smooth airfoil shape.

I cut a little v-notch in the front, and back end of the pieces, then cut them in half. Then I glued them with gorilla glue to the front and back of the edges of the stabilizer that you see in the next shot. They are tied together by nice "beech" 1/4" stringers from Hobby Lobby, the rest is all balsa wood stuff.

2. This is the bottom view of the strutt. You can see the ribs filling in between the angles, and the 1/2" square tubing on the back edge of the part. You can also see the leads brought into the hole area of the part to provide juice for the Landing gear lights, which will be attached after painting. One goes on both the left and right side of the aircraft.

3. Ah yes, my favorite tool, a nice rivet tool. In this shot you can see how I placed a cleco in each of the predrilled rivet holes, then removed them one by one, to add the high strenght cherry stainless structural rivets to hold the steel tube to the bottom edge of the part.

The steel tubing was selected to be just large enough to clear the ball of the fitting that will attach it to the lower mounting tabs on the airframe. The steel tube here was also shot blasted to white metal then three coats of yellow zinc chromate, before attachment to the aluminum top plates which are 1/16" thick. They attach the two angles together, with structural rivets (stainless too), and are three thicknesses between the angle and the tube. This provides three things for me.

1. A place to mount my landing gear lights, too, a flat surface to act as a "Little Wing airfoil",

2. The connections between the shocks and struts , and

3. A place for a foot to rest, should one need to "step up to the plate" to make a minor mast correction or adjustment.

4.-5. These next two shots show the dacron glued on to the top and bottom of the strut, after the wooden ribs and plywood washers were applied with gorilla glue for attachment around the holes, where the metal light fixture parts will penetrate the surfaces.

6.-7. These shots show how I added an extra piece of dacron to reinforce the area directly adjacent to the holes in the fabric. This was glued down with the waterproofing coating, at least two or three coats of the polycoat were added to finish sealing up the surfaces.

You can see how nicely the wiring and its rubber clip were covered and tapered out to the edge with the dacron. Additional tapes were applied after the first coat of sealer to reinforce the edges, as is commonly done in the stitts covering process.

8. This last view shows the angular landing gear strut tube. It consists of a 1-1/4" diameter aluminum tube which has a fabricated top piece. This top piece has a press fit steel 4130 spacer, which just matches the space where the fitting attaches to the side of the airframe.

I made these on the lathe in three sets as usual, finished them up with a couple of nice 45 degree bevels on my old shaper. Worked out real nice. After I pressed them into the tube (.001 intereference fit), I drilled through the lower portion, and added a pinned 3/16 AN bolt and nut to secure them.

In the picture you can see both the top and bottom parts of the tube. I also fabricated on the lathe, a bottom plug which protrudes into the bottom of the tube 1/8" and has a rivet on two sides.

The rivets secure it "just in case", and keep the hornets and wasps from building up in there, where they could become an unwanted surprise in the summer months. It also keeps all the weather and dirt from being able to enter the tube permanently.

If you look closely you can see the shock mounting plates on either side of the tube. They are 1/8" thick aluminum, which each have four structural stainless steel rivets attaching them to the tube wall, per the prints.
In one shot, the plates are shown sideways, attached with cleco's, in the next they are finish riveded to the tubes. :yo:

richard lidke

12-26-2006, 06:49 PM

:director: Yep, a bit of a drive Jim.

Click and enjoy enlarged.

1.-2. My friend and fellow "Littlewing Booster" Mr. Bob Randall applying some of the finishing touches to the tabs etc. of the airframe with his gas welding skills. Bob attended one of the Classes put on up in Oshkosh by the Nasa consultant Mr. Finch, for gas welding homebuilts this last summer.

He is a retired plumber, who also has many years of soldering and sweating copper pipes during his career. He did a wonderful job for me on the project. I fitted all the tubes with his and Jim's help, tacked them all in place with my Mig welder, then Bob took over and finished welded everything with gas, as has been the common practice for years on this type of airframe construction.

On this, and the next shot, the frame is on "horses", however, we did 99 percent of the work on my turning jigs shown above, and boy for anyone building one of these, be sure you do this too, it saves so much work you just can't believe it. What a time saver.

3. This is a forward facing view of the left landing gear strut. It shows the tube, horizontal plate, lower covered strut, and the air shock, with its carried aluminum aircraft wheel, with hydraulic disc brakes. The top arm, and horizontal strut do not move, only the lower arm and lower portion of the shock absorber.

4. This is a little nicer view of the strut assembly. If you look closely, you can also see the inner 1/8" thick "step" I was mentioning above. The step is glued to the top of the metal strutt, then will be painted black.

The balance of the strut assembly will be white.

5. This next view shows a nice shot of the unit from the left side of the aircraft.

6. This last shot shows a nice view of the whole unit from the rear left side of the fuseledge. Quite a bit of work is going into each one of these, but its looking good I think.

Thats it for this edition of the "Never ending Story", I hope you enjoy it as much as Jim and I enjoyed bringing it to you. As usual we worked at this quite a few hours to post and edit it for your perusal and interest. Thanks again for viewing our posts. Booster Rich.:peace:

gyroman

12-27-2006, 05:50 AM

Richard,

How is the complete build coming along? How tough is building a little wing? My Dad is retired and has welded all of his life. He spends his days now making iron furniture. rocking chairs, beds etc. in his shop.

Just curious if I should purchase the plans to give him something to do for me. I have all the iron furniture I need now... I need a gyro!!!

What version of little wing are you building. I think I would be interested in the LW5, two place shortversion...

gyroplanes

12-27-2006, 08:14 AM

Rich, Good to see the progress on the gyro. I'm looking forward to seeing the fleet fly.

Rather than struggle with a questionable fuel tank, you guys might consider a seat tank. I have sold Calumetair seat tanks to several Little Wing builders. My seat tanks are starting to get popular with the Challenger ultralight crowd as well.

mcbirdman

12-27-2006, 11:11 AM

Hi Tom,

We cannot use seat tanks but are interested in aux. belly fuel tanks. The front seat has to fold forward to access the back seat. The seat tank is fine for the single place however. This is what is happening now but Rich will edit the posts for details on what you are looking at. We will be posting a new Thread that we can use to answer questions that may arise from reading this building thread/record. But for now.....

Well, Rich stayed over last night and got up early to go home. We stayed up late researching engines and some new information I have been gathering for him the last couple weeks. Tommorow we will be going down to an area near Columbia, Indiana to visit another builder that is making a single place version with VW.
We may make a stop to Jim Holbrooks house to talk to him about some engine and redrive building.

Mike Jackson

04-15-2007, 09:10 AM

richard lidke

04-21-2007, 08:26 AM

1. In this first photo you can see my cables linking the forward and aft rudder pedals. I used 3/32 cables from wicks (stainless steel) with the turnbuckles, clevis and thimble as is standard practice.

You can also see how the little handwheels are mounted to perform the trim adjustment of the elevators. Most gyro's don't have trim adjustment, but this allowed me to take advantage of the elevators which are an option on the littlewing.

The small items going forward of the pedals are string, which is holding the pedals in the upright position while I made adjustment to the length of the cable and taped the crimping sleeves in proper positon until I can make the crimp with a borrowed crimping tool from my local airport.

2. Second shot shows the bellcranks for the trim adjust just ahead of the horizontal stabilizer on the left side of the fuselege. You can see how the cables are run through the fairleads then through the little covers from Wicks, and finally on to the rudder.

On the above bellcrank a separate cable goes over the top of the stabilizer, and one underneath the stabilizer to attach to the crank on the elevators.

3. If you can enlarge the thumbnail, you will see the fairlead just ahead of the back seat on the right side of the fuselege, just behind the opening for the door on that side. I modeled my fairleads from those commercially available.

I made my own Delrin sleeves which are split, and have a groove at each end allowing a hairpin clamp to keep them from sliding in and out of the mounting tube, while allowing you to remove them for replacement, should they wear, without removing the cable, which can't be done once the ends are clamped with their sleeves.

4. This picture is out of secquence, but it shows the aft looking forward of the right side of the fuselege finally covered. You can see the windows are not cut out yet, but that will follow.

I followed standard Stitts process. Glue around the edges, then iron to tighten, then dope to waterproof. Taping and reinforcing the sharp or stress points follows, of course more dope to seal and stick everything together.

5. This shot shows a downward shot of my ELT antenna. It fastens through a small clip welded to the frame. The clip is about 1/2" wide and about an inch long.

6. This shot shows a little more detail of the Delrin bushing holding the coax where it passes through the cloth area. It clamps around the cable with two 3/16 AN bolts, and then the Delrin is attached with two bolts also.

A .065 4130 plate is bent at an angle then welded to the local tubing. It is mounted with a string for alignment to match the taper of the cloth between the two tubes where the cloth will pass.

7. This view shows the opposite side, and you can see where the coax passes out into the inner area of the fuselege through the sheetmetal welded to the tubing. The ELT will be located just below this arpeture.

8. This is the first picture of my Matco tailwheel finally mounted with chains and springs. It worked out very nice and looks first class. This is the small solid rubber tire which Ron recommended.

Jim went for the larger wheel which is pneumatic and may give better performance on rough ground for grass landings. Of course a little heavier in the bigger size, is always a consideration one can make too!.

richard lidke

04-21-2007, 08:32 AM

1. This first shot shows the radio antenna. It extends slightly at an angle towards the rear of the fuselege. The height of the elt and radio anttennas both are less than the height of the vertical fin on the back of the body.

2. This photo shows the fjirst wooden plate which is riveted to the tabs welded to the tubing which provides a mounting for the socket which the 6 wires running to the horizontal stabilizer lights pass through.

3. This shows a nice view of my tailwheel with the chains and springs attached. Worked out very nice, and looks like a factory job right out of the box!

4. Another view showing the tailwheel from the side and how it attaches to the rudder for control. Had to face the nuts on the bottom side of the bolts holding the back of the spring to get enough clearance for the movement of the rudder.

5. Another view showing the opposite side of the fuselege.

6. The next view shows the first piece of cloth being hung on the tail. What fun to finally get to this milestone in the work. I used wooden cloths pins and clamps along the bottom edge until I got the glue on the edges.

My friend Dick Cains, told me to only go about 3/4 of the way around the tube, that way when you add the reinforcing tape later, it will completely cover the first edge and make a good looking finish to the project.

7. This is a reference shot to just show how the cloth looked from the other side as I began this work.

richard lidke

04-21-2007, 08:39 AM

1. Starting to proceed forward of the tail to the next section.

2.,3.,4. These shots show the cloth hung loosely before it trimmed it to make the taper transition between the larger rear seat area, and the tapering turtle deck area.

5. Top view of the same cloth preparatory work.

6.,7.,8. These next shots show the cloth glued, shrunk with the iron, then doped. You can see that the windows on the sides and the top have not been cut out yet.

richard lidke

04-21-2007, 08:46 AM

1. Side windows have been cut out, edges rolled inside and glued in this shot.

2. Looking aft through the inside of the turtledeck.

3. Looking down, here you can see I have cut out the left top window and have installed the first top window with its aluminum trim strip. Took me an hour just to do this. Cleco's are holding everything temporarily here.

4. A much more detailed shot of the cleco's and the first top window mounted.

5.,6. A kind of a repeat, but this pair of shots show the top window with all the rivets finally in place. A lot of work, since I placed a washer on the inside of each rivet, and the rivet pulls down agains a rubber seal all around the window on the outside against the nice flat aluminum trim piece. Looks very professional to me at least!

7. Laying out the prerotator plate. This is going to be attached to Ernie's rotorhead which I picked up a Mentone last summer. Had to redesign this twice to get a good fit. We are in the process of getting the part number for the correct Toyauto Cresidda (spelling?) gear reduction starter motor for everyone. I had a hard time finding this, since I didn't know what year or make car it was supposed to fit on.

Ron advised that this starter must have a 11 tooth gear to correctly match with the Wunderlick starter gear. Jim and I were fortunate to get our gears just before the unfortunate passing of Mr. Wunderlick. He was a wonderful person to meet and I had hoped to see him again. I hope his wife is doing ok, this was a tragic happening. I understand Tom Milton will be trying to pick up on his work. We'll see.

8. This photo shows my new Harbor Frieght digital height gage. It was sold for about $ 80 a good buy. It reads down to 1/2 thousandths. It is very helpful in laying out the centerlines for the openings in the prerotor drive mounting plate. I added extra holes to help lighten the plate. This is some expensive aluminum. Enough to make about 3 pieces was about $ 100. I have a drawing now which can be copied if someone needs it.

You will also need to make a spacer for the disc of the hydraulic piston, and two spacer tubes to guide the brake plate where it moves up and down and comes up against the bottom side of the rotor head drive gear. These tubes keep the brake plate in alignment as they move. There is very little detail of this available on the drawings. After I complete mine, I will have the details available for anyone who may be interested.

richard lidke

04-21-2007, 08:57 AM

1. First photo shows the new drawing of the latest mounting plate. This was needed because the prerotator motor needed to be turned 40 degrees to get the maximum clearance between it and the side of the cheek plates.

After the first layout and plate was made it almost made contact with the cheekplate, without any joystick tilting made. This was unacceptable, especially with the 12 volt electrode right next to the plate to begin with. Thus, I made drawing number two. Turned the motor as I mentioned, then everything looked good.

2. This shows the motor mounted under the plate with the rotorhead and gear in position. The mating of the two gears is perfect. I measured the center distance with my micrometer caliper, then subtracted 1/2 of each shaft diameter, drilled the holes and allowing on hole to be slightly oversize for a slight adjustment in the distance. It worked out very well as you can see.

3. The next view shows the little piece that the cheek plates attach to where the rotorhead attaches via a hardened pin. This was rounded across the top corners. The reason is that it is directly located under the plate, when it is bolted to the square bar that the rotorhead attaches to.

When the bar and head try to tilt forward or aft, it makes the plate hit the corners or the tilt bracket. Thus they must be rounded off to allow clearance for the plate and bar to tilt. I did not remove any material supporting the bolt, which I felt would weaked the assembly.

4. This final shot shows the rotorhead upside down laying on the floor, with the Wunderlick gear attached. The bolts were removed and centering punches were used to locate the holes while the center of the gear was mounted on its locating boss. The bolt holes were then drilled and the assembly rebolted to check locations.

Everything fit perfect. Ernie and Dick did an excellent job of matching their dimensions on the boss and the hole in the gear. I could not believe how well they fitted together, it was amazing, and very satisfying to have it fit that well.

Thats all for now for this update friends. As you can see we are making good progress, as usual, and enjoying every minute of it. It is so rewarding to see your progress towards completion every time you add a little something extra. Have a great day. Booster Rich.

Any Comments or questions please use other Questions threads Ok? Here is the link: http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11022

Thanks

richard lidke

04-29-2007, 04:48 AM

Hi James,

I'm seriously considering putting together a LW. Looks like great fun with a serious committment in time and $.

Was wondering if anyone in your group produces parts for consumers (me) to hasten this project?

Thanks,

Mike

Hi Mike. Booster Rich here. I can make most parts, having done that as you can see. Depending on what you want. I would prefer that you get the material, then I don't have to go through that process of waiting etc etc.

Please e mail me personally to keep this thread clean at Pilotnow2003@yahoo.com. Thanks

Let me know if you have further questions, I will answer. Regards Rich.:D

mcbirdman

05-08-2007, 08:34 AM

Here are a few more photos I found of interest. I know some of them posted on the Questions thread But wanted them here in our progress thread.
With the landing gear fitted it is easy to see how much lower the 2 place machine fits than our single place. We have bigger tires on it and it really makes a huge difference.

You might note the window framing that will allow me to put my special "winged" windows in place. I had found that the tip of the wing shaped window would allow me more visibility when checking behind me. When I turned to look over my shoulder that tip area provided much improved rearward visual checks.

WHY

05-08-2007, 10:11 AM

Hi James

Would like to ask you the same questions that I asked Chuter. what is the maximum AOA you can get with the stick all the way back setting in a 3 point position and what is the minimum AOA in the 3 point position with the stick all the way foward.

Tony

mcbirdman

05-08-2007, 01:06 PM

Hi Tony, Just delete your post and go to this thread:

http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11022&highlight=Wing+Booster+questions. I'll give it a try.... Thanks jtm

richard lidke

12-12-2007, 06:55 AM

I am Posting these for Rich so he can add details regarding the photos. He is quite excited about the progress and we are almost ready to start looking at engines...... Hope you enjoy these..... jtm

Also Please only reply at this thread (click on this link) so that we may keep the thread cleaner. http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=205828#post205828 Thank you very much !

Here's Rich.......

Thanks Jim. Its always a pleasure to have you help me present these photographs to our friends. With your professional help, it seems we always have something nice to show.

1. This picture shows the left side of the fuselege with the left rear window in place. As you can see, all of the left side, except the lower section, has been covered, doped and reinforce taped. If you look closely you can also see my radio antenna for the radio or VOR plainly on this side.

Look at previous shots to see the little bracket with its teflon plate which holds the coax firmly in place where it pierces the cloth fabric.

I didn't want any fluttering cloth near the opening which could possibly tear in flight. I also reinforced it with a circle cut out of the dacron and glued on and doped for that purpose. You will note the rivets were installed, and a coat of preservative zinc chromate had been applied over this, to prevent corrosion of the aluminum.

2. This picture shows the ELT antenna on the right side in good detail. If you look at the bar at the bottom of the window(the yahoo window), it now has a per cent enlargement window.

You can magnify any of these thumbnails in increments up to 400 percent. This will allow you to study the details of the work we did if you are interested, or care do do something similar to your littlewing.

You will also note the additional reinforcing circles and tapes over the glued joints in the cloth, at the fairleed window, and other horizontal stabilizer connecting tube openings.
These were just made by tracing the bottom of a coffee cup or tin can, on the dacron cloth, then trimming with a rotory pair of pinking shears.

The effect is very strong, and looks professional, to me at least.

3. Here is a nice view of both of the top windows installed. They are still covered with the original plastic which is supplied on both sides of the plastic window material. It keeps the stuff from getting scratched and dirty during the building process.

As you see it it also has some blue paper tape attached around the edges to keep the epoxy paint off the plastic, until it dries. Nasty stuff to get off once dried!

4. This view shows good detail of my fairleed windows. Inside the window is where the cable fairleed is attached to the airframe. I made mine with a teflon bushing which is split, so that it can be romoved without taking the cable out of the hole.

The romoval of the cable would be impossible, unless you cut the eyes off the ends, then made them all over again. On each side of the bushing is a hairpin like clip which can be removed to slide the bushing out either forward or aft from its location. Then it can be easily replaced with a new one if worn. If anyone wants a detail, I can supply it.

You will also note that the lexan window has some sheet metal screws around its perimiter. They are brass #10-32 machine screws which are tapped into an inner ring of the lexan for attachment. The inner ring was glued with gorilla glue to the cloth, then a reinforcing cloth ring was covered over it, then it was doped and sealed with the orange waterproofing stuff from Wicks Aircraft.

I then used the predrilled holes in the outer cover to drill through the inner ring (the holes were a tap drill size for the bolts to follow), in eight places, prior to attaching the outer window. By the way, all of the reinforcing plates, and these fairleed window details were made from scrap left over from making the windows on the project, so no added cost for the neat little details.

You can also see the plastic cable outlets from Wicks here installed. I also reinforce taped around them, prior to sealing and painting. These cost about four dollars per pair from Wicks.

The window could be left clear if one wanted too, but I chose to paint over mine to make it match the rest of the fuselege.

5. This view is just a detail of the same thing on the other side of the fuselege. On this side you can also see how my external trim bellcranks look after covered. They allow me to trim my elevators for fuel burn, or added passenger weight, without making all the trim adjustment to the rotorhead in flight. I hope that this keeps my controls in a somewhat normal condition throughout the flight taken.

6. This is a shot of the battery on its 1/8" thick fiberglass base. I was able to get this from an electrical engineer friend of mine. The reason is that the fiberglass is strong, lightweight, and can be drilled and tapped for electrical connections. My solenoids for the engine, and prerotator will be mounted to it. I can also terminate my heavy duty leads to it, since it is a total insulator, without any problems.

You can see I made the mounting brackets from aluminum angle, and drilled out as many holes for lightening as possible. Also, I drilled 2" holes under the battery (6 of them) to remove additional weight from the fiberglass itself.

7. This shows the battery from the right side as it would appear in the fuselege. You can see my top mounting brackets and underside reinforcing where the thru bolts attach the battery to the fiberglass plate.

8. Here you can see the underside of the fiberglass battery plate, before I drilled it out under the battery to lighten it up some more. The battery is Wicks dry cell, with over 900 amps of cranking capacity. It should provide plenty of power to prerotate, then get the ignition running and starting the engine. It seems you can't have too much battery when you have an electric prerotator. My engineer friend and I have come up with a reduced amperage starting technique, to reduce the hit on the starter motor, and battery.

If any one is interested in our method, I can supply a sketch for your perusal. It allows a soft start, then full voltage, to get the rotor up to speed smoothly.

Thats it for this group. Best regards: Booster Rich

richard lidke

12-12-2007, 07:15 AM

More for Rich..... jtm

Thanks Jim.

1. Here I am machining one of the pins for the prerotator brake shoe slides. I am turning it on my 16" lathe. I also drilled and tapped it for a hardened grade 8 allen head cap screw, which attaches it through the matco brake housing casting, underneath the prerotator plate. If any one wants details of this pin, we can supply it.

It is not on the drawings from Littlewing.

2. This shows the tail with sun proof silver coating applied. My little low pressure high volume sprayer from Harbor frieght did a nice job of applying these coatings.

3. Left side of tail with same coating.

4., 5. These were the horizontal airfoils that I made out of the horizontal landing gear struts. By just adding a 1/2" steel tube, a little cloth and balsa wood, I got a nice place to put my foot, and a landing gear light on both sides of the landing gear. See my previous posts to see how the details of this were arranged.

6., 7. These two shots show the detail of how I mounted, taped, and zinc chromate painted the aluminum trim around the windows to prevent its corrosion after it was installed. The trim covers a rubber edging which surrounds the lexan window.

After the window and trim are placed, the plywood is drilled through, using the lexan as a template, then cleco'ed to hold it in place, while pop rivets are passed through the aluminum trim, rubber, lexan, and inner 1/8" window frame, with an internal washer on each rivet.

This makes a smooth, light, strong, window trim, and an area where one can plainly see the tail and forwarward running light with strobe for reference if need be. Also outside visibility was enhanced tremendously over the smaller standard window, for navigation and safety during our coming flights.

8. The detail here shows how I taped the stabilizers, rudder and elevators to add my Coast Guard Orange safety stripes. I feel that the paint did a great job of coating, with just a single coat of white, and orange, to complete this highly visible treatment of the outside surfaces of the aircraft.

Thats it for this section. Best Regards: Booster Rich

richard lidke

12-12-2007, 07:18 AM

More photos for Rich...... jtm

Thanks again Jim.

1., 2., 3. These three shots show how I had trailered my Littlewing for its first trip on its own running gear to our local EAA pancake breakfast here in Michigan City, Indiana.

I had covered the cab, with no windows, door nor roof yet. It was to keep the wind from causing damage while I trailered it over there about 10 miles from my shop.

I think the paint really is turning out great. If you could see it up close, it really has a nice shine, and real eye popping color contrast.

Just what a Coast Guard helicopter should have eh? At least thats my impression. Got the stripe details and correct angle from my---you guessed it: Coast Guard Station. My old alma matter. Was in there for four years active, 2 reserve. Love their high contrast color scheme.

4. Here's the old man of the sea beside his not yet complete aircraft. Looks pretty good to me so far, maybe I should have worn a life jacket of orange too! lol

Hope you like the work so far. This last photo was at Mentone this summer. I did get my 28 foot rotor blades from Ernie this year. If you look real close or magnify the last two shots, you can see my completed rotorhead with prerotator laying on a little table next to the display. Jim was nice enough to present me with a picture of myself to brag about, oops did I say that! Well at least, I like it so far. Hope you do too!

Thats it for today friends, Booster Rich.

mcbirdman

01-10-2011, 08:11 PM

Okay, it has been a while since I have done much with the LW 2 place. I have missed making progress and overwhelmed the last couple years with challenges. Since I noticed that the urge to push ahead despite these issues has increased I started reviewing all my plans and past threads. Surprised by the high number of views of this thread I can only imagine that that are some of you who would love an update. I started realizing I had a few extra jobs that could let me finish paying Todd. I talked and shared with Tim Mercer who has been making great headway. It helped fire me up and get out in that cold garage and get going again.

One of the things I liked about the LW Michigan Single Place thread and this thread is that I have been able to pretty much post photos and info on this builder thread and then go over to Little Wing Booster Questions threads that can handle the comments and questions without having to sift through them here without filtering out things unrelated to my build or learning. I'm not even sure if Rich still comes here if not it is
just me left and I will boost as good as I can as I learn from my mistakes and look forward to getting the two place done.

I feel there is some time for more fun things in life and knowing it is those special moments that provide us with the energy to do things NOT so fun.... It is time to make a push for those moments that reach for the dream.

Rich and I have been in contact. He has just retired and will likely be travelling up at least a bit to help at some point. I am ready to start making the mount for the Yamaha soon but am trying to get other things done while I wait.

As I've looked at the 2 place and struggled with a crowded front seat I have struggled with the idea of just making it as per plans and being unhappy or providing a solution to the cramped front quarters for a 6' tall person. After having thought about it a while ago and sitting in the front I decided changes had to be made for me. The way the nose curves up basically means sitting in a seat with your ankles and knees feeling like they are pressed up into your gut. Trying to get your toes on the brakes when your ankles already have them bent to the max so your foot is pointing toward your forehead leaves you feeling tired just sitting there. Once I am in, I can't push back in my seat and twist my knees toward the door and lift the feet out because the foot doesn't clear.
How can I finish something that still needs work? Hard to get into, out of and sit in? I realize smaller people would have no problem but how many of us are small?

The change I was about to make was/is going to take a bit to get on track but basically it means - lowering the floor. No problem, there will be a radiator hanging down below the engine anyway and having it there can be used for cabin heat. Stretching out by letting the legs lower down 5" provides more comfort clearing the dash and removes the knees in the chest crunch.
Put the seat on a track so it can move back about 4 inches for solo flight from the front and push it back for egress in order to allow knees to swivel legs out of door.
Remove torque tube assembly and place below airframe. This clears the upper floor for egress but keeps the stick "shorter" out of the floor but just as much leverage/throw.
It will give me a problem when I need to put a notch down the whole belly tank to clear the torque tube but I can get around it later....
So, to that end, I worked a couple days on the floor pans. May not look like a lot but the pedals are reworked except for the heel brakes. It took a lot of guts to take an already completed front floor apart but I believe it is at least a way to fix things.

Going to hurt to cut out a control assembly ready to go but not only will we gain room but the cables will be looped out the inside of the cabin behind the back seat instead of out the side of the a/c by the landing gear. I never liked that and Ron was kind enough to show me how to do this and I believe it is worth the work. So here is step one:

The floor Pans. Here is the problem. I put my friend Mike in front to show the fit. Bigger or smaller look at the forced slouching and fit.

mcbirdman

01-10-2011, 08:17 PM

Here is what I have done to lower feet and pedals.

mcbirdman

01-10-2011, 08:28 PM

We should be starting to gain some room now... And I am starting to get things done again. Still have to get some more thin wood for floors, make new tabs to weld to frame (to screw wood to frame) and heel brake placement but this 2 day project will be appreciated 4 ever. :) well, at least every time we get in.....

All_In

01-11-2011, 09:21 AM

Nice work James, thanks for sharing.

mcbirdman

03-05-2011, 09:56 AM

Ok, a little more work done. Pedals and Brakes Work, resized the Pedals so panels can be installed on inside walls. Redid the seats again so that They both tilt. My friend Bob gave me the upholstry out of a GEO.

After looking at how heavy duty the seats were and how they were constructed I figured out a way to eliminate ANY sewing and with a few cuts resize the covers to fit my seat frames with little work. I like the idea of vinyl because you can pivot on your butt and yet the fabric looks sooo good. I again made a rear seat pocket, and was able to make the seats so much nicer without the heavy framework. I have been working on the fuel tank mockup from which I am making paper templates for alluminum construction.

I had to move a couple bushings that suppport the rudder cables, a few other parts so that I can start the side panels in a way that allows easy removal for inspection and maintanance. There isn't much to show in this area except to know that once it is in place it will look as cool as the seats.

I can't believe I figured out the seat cover without ruining anything ! I am not an upholsterer. Here is a few quick phone shots that show the fuselage changes but with the old seat style.

mcbirdman

03-05-2011, 10:14 AM

This is when I figured out how to modify my lightweight seat frames to accept the upohlstry and foam. Car Seat frames are over built for what we are doing. Pix one is getting the ideas.

Then I stratigically cut the foam and drew it in to the much smaller front airplane seat. I put a pocket in the back same as the first time I covered them. Front one tilts forward and the back one is full sized back with reduced bottom cusion for cyclic clearance. Both seats are quite comfy now and look good.

jm-urbani

06-05-2011, 10:47 PM

Hi All,

I've found out this thread very interesting for I am gonna start building myself
I tried to down load the photos in full definition clicking the photos but I don't know why it does not work

I hope the web masters will read this post and sort out this problem if possible cause the photos are really interesting for me.

The close up photos of each part of the autogyro are really important for me cause even if the plans are superb it is sometimes difficult for me to imagine the parts in reallity, it is especially true as for the commands for example .

kind regards

jean michel Urbani

jm-urbani

06-05-2011, 11:25 PM

sorry guy don't take in account my previous message, I've tried from office and it worked , yesterday many people were maybe on the server at the same time

thanks for all the photos all of you have posted in this thread, it is a giant step for me cause now I can see the commands parts clearly

regards

jean michel

mcbirdman

07-02-2011, 11:13 AM

My friend Bob flew to Colorado to pick up a truck. He drove it back and was lucky to meet up with Racer/Todd.

Todd got me the faceplate and the basic engine I had sitting out there. I didn't need all the parts yet but this gives me a good idea on what I will have to fabricate. I wished I could have been there but it is great that a friend could meet Todd. He is setting me up with the engine, redrive cage and prop clutch.

I wonder how many inches does the rotax redrive offset from the crank? I have the engine in front of my two place and it sure looks like even though the crank is low - that the redrive will put it within an inch or two of centerline and still have the engine head not above the "normal" sized cowling.

How many inches is the offset please? I thought is was maybe 5.5 inches? If it is then I think the orientation and thrust line using this engine is much better than I thought.

B Hawley

07-04-2011, 08:34 AM

I thought I would just throw my two cents in concerning my project.
The first pic is the green laser alignment step, the fuse was aligned in all three axes, with the laser at the center line of the fuse. Current laser position is 6” above the center of the longerons, or 6” above the center of thrust.
The second pic is of the side view of the engine with a full scale cross section, CAD generated, print out of the side of the PSRU assembly. Note the crank insertion into the small cog belt sprocket. Small cog to large cog distance is 9” o.c. with a +/- .5” adjustment for belt removal and tensioning. This is all taped on the front of the left and right engine mount frame members. The laser is on a precision lab jack and is lowered 6” while retaining all original alignments. The engine, with the PSRU cut out is lowered into place. The prop hub adaptor is centered on the laser, in the “X’ and “Y” axes, with the engine level, left to right. Hole locations are marked through the frame members onto the 3/8” aluminum adaptor / dampening plate. Note the Left and Right engine frame members hold the engine in a 3 degree downwards angle, per plans.
The third pic shows the side view of the assembly, ready to drill the mounting holes for the frame members to backing plate attachments.
Brad Hawley
hawleybrad@yahoo.com

Passin' Thru

07-04-2011, 08:57 AM

I wonder how many inches does the rotax redrive offset from the crank? I have the engine in front of my two place and it sure looks like even though the crank is low - that the redrive will put it within an inch or two of centerline and still have the engine head not above the "normal" sized cowling.

How many inches is the offset please? I thought is was maybe 5.5 inches? If it is then I think the orientation and thrust line using this engine is much better than I thought.

Which gear box?
The "B" box offset is 72 mm.
The "C" & "E" box offset is 80 mm.

mcbirdman

07-04-2011, 10:39 AM

Thanks Pete - C box -a little over 3 inches I guess eyballing it it will be about 2 inches below centerline thrust as placed.

Hi Brad - Looks good. Looks like you are well on your way with redrive. I guess if I don't have to scratch build a redrive and can end up with a beltless bolt on redrive only a couple inches lower than centerline then we are way better off than I had originally thought. Wish I could, like you, but I think I can make it work without being an engineer.

HobbyCAD

07-04-2011, 12:50 PM

James, what model and year is your Yamaha engine? Is it carby or FI? It has a coolant outlet coming out on top of the valve cover, correct?

Brad, what model and year is your Yamaha engine? Yours seems to be the same as I have, sourced from a 2008 FX Nytro. It does not have the problematic timing belt tensioner that the other models have (blue dot vs orange dot). If I'm correct, good news, you are the first I find using the same model engine.

mcbirdman

07-12-2011, 06:48 PM

Hi Francois.

Yes, Carby. From Todd/Racer. He said he changes all of the timing tensioners on his engines. I am buying His Redrive system and will be trying to find some time to fit the engine soon as I can redirect some attention.

Sunday I went to a building a block from the Navy Pier in Chicago to pick up a truck with my friend the Car Repair Shop owner Bob. We drove back down very near to Tom Milton and Chuck Roberg but I figured they wouldn't appreciate a phone call at 2:30 in the morning.

On the way down we picked up extra metal, tools, LONG 4130 tubing, rotary pinking shears for fabric covering and more. I was happy to stop by Rich's house but so sad to visit the barn where we built 3 two place airframes. It is so empty there now and I feel bad for Rich for having sold his machine as well as the other builder. I am glad for the opportunity he shared with me so that now I have options but there are some new options still out there.

I am trying to keep Rich involved in the activities as I wish I could return the same favor that he blessed me with by sharing his engineering background. People like that are becoming more rare by the day and it is a shame that he lives so far from me. He still comes up and stays with us occasionally and attends some of our family parties so I am sure he knows how much we think of him. I would not have a two place airframe sitting in my garage had it not been for him.

So while I have to still drive to kansas in the next few weeks to retrieve my son who is helping his grandpa move - I have to keep fixing up an apartment so it can finally be re-rented again and make life easier.

Does anyone know where I can get some bronze tinted lexan? I need to get the aircraft covered and closed up so the upholstry doesn't get dirty while I am trying to get the Yamaha put on. We used to have a place in Lima Ohio we used to drive by that does not carry it anymore. Is there something between Wichita and Michigan that I could pick some up?

Anyway, that is where I am at with my progress. The metal tubing should give me the material I need to figure something out.

B Hawley

01-07-2012, 01:23 PM

Just an update and a couple of pics of the LW5 project. I received the final part for the belt PSRU yesterday. Assembled today and all fits great. Should pickup the Hub adaptor next week. Then start saving up for the three blade Warp Drive prop. This belt PSRU is designed with the potential need of adding a captured bearing in the front of the crank shaft cog pulley. Just in case crank shaft bearing wear becomes an issue or concern. The housing for this bearing can be mounted on the same backing plate that you see attached to the engine mount framework.
Other concurrent LW5 projects:
- Trying to locate a pair of aluminum radiators in the 6” x 16” x 2” range,
one for each side.
- Todd is working getting me the parts needed for the exhaust system.
- Fuel tank 1 was ordered and paid for. Got burned by Preceptor Aircraft,
along with many others, when owner walked away with all the money.
- I have a foam plug made for Tank 1, between firewall and instrument panel.
- I have the foam plug made for Tank 2, between copilots legs, which contains fuel pump. BUT I need some advice on glassing a
tank with the new gas additives.
- Instrument panel is finished. (non electrical)
- Original 130FI wiring harness has had most non essentials, such as head lights
and hand grip warmer wires, surgically removed.

Just a lot of details. Saving as I go.
Brad H Grass Valley, Northern California

mcbirdman

01-07-2012, 09:19 PM

Hi Brad, Glad to see you're doing good. I worked this weekend for 2 days and made 2 motor mounts for the yamaha engine. I made a quick jig to help hold the engine on the hydrolic motorcycle jack for precise positioning. Here are a few photos. I was thinking about posting them soon but since you are posting your build photos in the thread I started on my builds I thought maybe I should update. I haven't done a lot of building for a few reasons but every once in a while I go at it in marathon sessions. Looks like there will be little if any bump in the cowling and a lot of room underneath for the radiator. It is the first time I pulled this out of the garage with an engine on front. Pretty exciting. Now I am going to have to get with Todd to buy the rest of the conversion parts.

That PRSU Belt looks cool and beautiful ! Wish I could make that. Although I have a belt on the VW Little Wing - I decided that it was beyond my means to make one so I will have to deal with the slightly lower thrust line. Sorry to hear about preceptor tank deal. That is too bad. I wanted to get another tank but knew things were going badly so I made a plug for the top tank and belly tanks. I may just make cardboard templates and make them out of alluminum. I have had problems with the preceptor tank leaking and so has Ron.

I will try to post some closer photos of the motor mount when I put the engine back on. I took it off tonight to whizz wheel and paint it. The other one will stored for now.

B Hawley

01-14-2012, 03:49 PM

The LW5 in Grass Valley, Northern California, Yamaha 130FI with a belt PSRU, is moving along at the slow pace of saving money.
Just another update with more info to add to my last update, at the end of the previous page.
The propeller hub adaptor is on now, all fits great. Ready for prop and spinner.
I know I will be using two radiators in the 6” x 14” x 2” range, in the front on each side of the 130FI. I have some RFQ’s out for a set of custom aluminum radiators, they have to be cheaper than the single $450 rotax one off the shelf and I can have them made exactly the way I want.
I have decided on the location of the sump tank, the battery and all of the electronics that came with the engine, all can be forward of the firewall.
I have included a pic of a plane from my local airport that has an aluminum sheet metal cowling with a fiberglass nose. The way the sides flair open at the rear will, in my case, continue the general frontal shape started by the engine and radiator set. As well as creating exiting ducts for cooling.
I have some side view pics of the LW5 to show the lowered position of the engine when using a belt PSRU. Note that in the plans version the firewall is still .75” to low in the center. If left this way I will need to change the angle of the cowling as it transitions from the instrument panel to firewall to the nose cowling. The current plans built firewall has a 10” wide flat and horizontal section along the top center. If I radius this section up .75” in the center, the cowling angle will remain the same as in the last pic, with about .75” clearance to the spark plugs.
Suggestions and comments are greatly appreciated.
hawleybrad@yahoo.com
Brad H