Ressources to built a safe gyro.

[quadrirotor]

Where can we find the new (proposed?) LSA Standards to design a safe gyro?
Where can we find others ressources?

[Mike Jackson]

You might start with Greg Gremmenger. He'ss posted several notes on longstat & HS topics. I believe he was actively involved in the consensus standards for gyros and LSA.

He can be reached at: gyrogreg@ldd.net

Cheers,

Mike

[Doug Riley]

Andre, you'll find that the LSA standards don't teach you how to design a gyro. Mostly, they require only that the gyro pass certain tests. HOW to design the gyro so that it will pass the tests is not included in the regulations.

The FAA specifically said that the standards must not be "prescriptive," that is, the rules must not require a specific device or structure be used to reach a regulatory goal. They expect you to apply knowledge that you have gained elsewhere!

[quadrirotor]

Thanks Doug;
My purpose is to know the exact wording of what could be the LEGAL wording to conform with.
To built a gyro, the stuff developped by Martin Hollman is the best, and it takes all my PhD (Push here Dummy...)knowledge to understand him...

[Doug Riley]

Andre, Greg has published the most important part of the LSA standard, namely, the flight testing procedure. It appeared in the PRA magazine a year or so ago. If you don't have a copy, contact Greg. I'm sure he can tell you how to get one.

[quadrirotor]

Thanks Doug, i have the rotocraft mag. and the articles in question; i can have them, too, on the site of Greg.
But i have not the official (legal) wording of the standards witch go in ballot in April!

[Doug Riley]

Andre, perhaps you saw Greg's post elsewhere. Apparently, the standards are at the moment the property of ASTM. ASTM is a private umbrella organization composed of members of various industries. Its mission is to develop industry standards for all kinds of products and processes. Without such standards, light bulbs would all have different threads, gasoline formulas would vary by refiner and generally life would be chaotic.

ASTM is non-profit, but they sell copies of their standards at a price, usually over $100 per standard! The folks on the committees can't give out copies (as I understand it) without violating ASTM's copyright.

I'm not sure if the Light Sport Aircraft standards will eventually become public domain if the FAA accepts them... Greg (as chairman) would likely know the details of the deal between FAA and ASTM.

[quadrirotor]

Doug, André, roger.

[Mike Jackson]

A few posts ago, Martin Hollman was mentioned. His son, Eric - a Ph.D. type, has developed a computer model. Main site is :
http://www.aircraftdesigns.com

He has a good discussion of longitudinal stability design considerations under the gyroplane section. Don't let the math scare you. Look at his assumptions and realize the basics have been around for a long time. His graphs analyze several gyros - stock Bensen, the Sportster, the AAI Sparrow Hawk, and BumbleBee. After a vertical gust input of 30 mph is applied to each gyro for 2 seconds, he graphs the gyros vertical velocity and horizontal velocity responses. Basic results show Bensen with rock guard - divergent unstable response. Sportster and Bee - neutral (little damping but no divergence), Sparrow Hawk - nicely damped and agrees with AAI's flight tests. Check out the evaluation of increasing HS size.

Bottom line - if you agree with the assumptions and the math, you could input your design configuration and predict its longitudinal characteristics.

His new design book along with the computer program is $200. I spoke with Greg Gremmenger today and he is trying to get a "complimentary" copy to help finalize the ASTM Light Sport Gyro spec standards.

Give it a visit.

[TOTAL ECLYPSE]

Do Ya'll Have Free Plans For A Simple Gyroplane ??
I Could Realy Use The Help, It Would Be Greatly Apreciated.

[TOTAL ECLYPSE]

Do Yall Have Free Plans For A Simple Gyroplane ???
It Would Be Greatly Apreciated....:help: :help: :help:

[MikeBoyette]

Do Yall Have Free Plans For A Simple Gyroplane ???
It Would Be Greatly Apreciated....:help: :help: :help:
Ralph Taggert had free downloadable plans for the gyrobee on his web site. I don't remember what it is but, if search under gyro bee plans on the searc part of this site you may be able to find it.

[kc0iv]

Ralph Taggert had free downloadable plans for the gyrobee on his web site. I don't remember what it is but, if search under gyro bee plans on the searc part of this site you may be able to find it.

Try:

http://taggart.glg.msu.edu/gyro/gbplans.htm

about 3/4 down the page.

Leon
kc0iv

[Bob]

interesting topic !
there is a number of things that a gyro has to have in order to be "safe" however "Safe" is a relitive term, safe to a test pilot whose skills are fine tuned is not nessarialy safe for me.
so sense I was wondering the same thing , I have been gathering information for quite some time.
and i have discovered that just about any gyro out there can be MADE to be safe, or conversly extreamily UNSAFE.
that is there the subject of stability comes in at.
the diferent types of gyros, namely HTL,CLT,LTL all have their stability ishues, some worse than others, some easier to fix than others. there is no one type of gyro Design that is totally safe, its the total makeup of that gyro and how it tests out to preform, another words even the least offending of the three types can still have stability ishues and it takes carefull tewwking to get the "bugs out" before it is "Safe"
....
I am not sure but I believe this holds true with manifactured gyros as well, though they Should be better than others about it as care from experienced people who put them togather should make a quite stable machine. but just because its "store bought"
means nothing... its up to you the pilot to check it out carefully, to make sure it is safe to fly...
so the key is Your knowledge ! You are the one that needs to know what makes a gyro safe and what does not, and many hours are given to debateing the things that do or don't ,so it can be a grey area, not as simple as black and white.
on one hand you will hear a fella saying that a HS on a gyro isn't needed ,and on the other you will hear that it is of up most importance for gyro safty !
every aspect of the gyro's make up is clouded in this manor unfortionately. sifting through the Bull is not an easy task.and when your done sifting you are lible to have a biast outlook if your not very very carefull to get the facts
getting the Facts are essiential to understanding what makes a gyro safe or dangerous.
Unfortionatly there is not a single depository for gyro facts that I know of anywhere, they must be gathered by you and assembled. this is a time comsumeing task and prone to error
... the only attempt that I am aware of of someone trying to make a list of needed things is from "Aussie Paul" he was gracious enough to put his years of experience into a 2 page list of things needed for a gyro.
I think if you do a surch for his posts you will eventually find it. unfortionately I do not know where it resides here on the forem, but it is here !
.....
this is a good starting place... but that is all it is , is a starting place from there the craft must be tested to conferm weather it is safe to fly or not. that is where Greg G. comes in at , his articals give you step by step instructions on how to test, what to test, and in what sequience to test it in.
and the best part of all, is that he tells you WHY ... and educates you in the proccess.

Hopefully Some day there will be more plans on the net for diferent Gyro types. other than the Gyrobee. but that day is off in the future it seams. till then we must make do with what is available to us .

....
Bob.........