Gary Goldsberry

[Rotornut]

OK ALL PRA MEMBERS!!! Gary Cannot step Down as PRZ!!!
Lets Ban Together are All Might Be LOST!

Since 1994 I have Know Gary and Dave Pratter Each of them will HELP anyone!

If another gets Prez where will PRA be in 2yrs???
I am sure that Some Would say Better OFF, But where are they???
How much time do they Volunteer???? What do they give Freely?

Think about this long and hard PRA Members as we have LOTS to Lose!!

MJ :)

[automan1223]

Need more info what is gary stepping down ?

Will the Pra still have an airport to fly mentone ?

[ventana7]

MJ,

I disagree wholeheartedly. No disrespect to Gary and I am too new to PRA to appreciate all that Gary has done but one person can only do so much before they burn out.

PRA despereately needs new blood, new thinking and new strategies. Membership has been in a steep decline in the last 5 years. The biggest problem PRA has is that the BOD must be life members-- this is totally counterproductive.

I have been on the BOD of large organizations and it is usally the newer members who bring the most energy, new ideas and innovation and under the tuetalage of older membrs they accomplish great things.

However as PRA is now it is very difficult to convince new comers to spend the amount to become life members-- the result is that the BOD will be continually forced to be selected from an ever shrinking pool of "old timers" who do things the way they have always been done-- that results in stagnation.

Gary has given PRA his best--he agreed to stay on until the airport was paid off and he has-- he will still be a PRA member and available to give advice but the BOD needs new ideas and new thinking-- it is time for someone else.

[Dean_Dolph]

MJ, I thought that you had opened a real can of worms but thus far this thread has remained civil and low key. Hopefully it will remain so.
.........I am too new to PRA to appreciate all that Gary has done but one person can only do so much before they burn out.
Rob, I do agree that there comes a time when a person in a leadership position burns out. When that happens then energy, inspiration and effectiveness falls off. I’m a firm believer in term limits for all elected officials for this very reason.

The problem, as I see it, is that the PRA, like all volunteer organizations, has a small pool of people who are willing to assume a position of responsibility. And the closer to the top of the organization the more reluctant they become. The top leadership position becomes the focal point for any controversy and, since there is always multi view points in a controversy, the leader will consequently take a lot of heat from someone and will receive very few accolades for those things done well.

Gary can be proud of what has been accomplished under his watch and if half the stories I’ve heard about his personal sacrifice, time and money, is true, then he can be comfortable about his legacy..........PRA despereately needs new blood, new thinking and new strategies. Membership has been in a steep decline in the last 5 years.......I’m not so new too the PRA and have seen the membership go down and then up and then down and then up and ……….. This down trend isn’t anything new but when it happens there is always a lot of hand wringing. The fact that we now have the Internet and this Forum available for communication just makes it look worse than it has in the past. I know you were at Mentone ’05 so you must remember the numbers, that PRA treasurer Robert Rhymer presented, indicate the down trend has bottomed out. Whether this is a lull that happens before it gets better, or worse, remains to be seen. In any case, the sky is not falling and the PRA as a functional organization is in no danger..........The biggest problem PRA has is that the BOD must be life members-- this is totally counterproductive.Counter productive? In what way?.........I have been on the BOD of large organizations.......Were these volunteer organizations? If so how was the BODs created and maintained? How were you selected to be on the BODs?
.........and it is usally the newer members who bring the most energy, new ideas and innovation........

However as PRA is now it is very difficult to convince new comers to spend the amount to become life members-- the result is that the BOD will be continually forced to be selected from an ever shrinking pool of "old timers" who do things the way they have always been done-- that results in stagnation..The PRA BOD is a general membership elected body and then the BOD elects the PRA officers from its ranks. The PRA members have an opportunity every year to elect new people to the BOD. However there won’t be a wholesale BOD turn over because the members are elected for three year terms and it is divided into three classes. A different class is up for re-election every year. So, while your point about new members bringing new energy and etc. to the BOD may be valid, it isn’t likely that there will be many of them elected. All of this info is available in the PRA by-laws on the organizations web site. It took many years for the general membership to get the right to vote on the BOD. And it must be discouraging for those BOD members, past and present, who worked diligently for that right to see only about 10% of the members cast a ballot.

I doubt if there are any large number of ‘newcomers’ who consider becoming a life members immediately on joining the PRA. And I don’t know of any dedicated effort to convince them that they should. However, I will say, that economically, it would have made sense if I had become a life member as soon as I joined instead of waiting the many years that I did! And even if every ‘newcomer’ did join as a life member that doesn’t mean they would be willing to serve on the BOD. So, there is no guarantee that the pool for BOD candidates would be much larger than it is now.

As far as selecting from a shrinking pool of ‘old timers’, how do you know that the pool is shrinking? It may be but I don’t have any numbers to say one way or another. And ‘old timers’, if we are talking experienced people instead of chronological age, have value to add. The organization as a whole attracts innovators so I doubt if there is any lack of new ideas presented at BOD meetings and consequently no stagnation. Any thing the looks like stagnation is probably a reflection of the organizations financial status. And this isn’t likely to change soon; although the airport may very well help out with revenue now that it is close to being paid off.Gary has given PRA his best--he agreed to stay on until the airport was paid off and he has-- he will still be a PRA member and available to give advice but the BOD needs new ideas and new thinking-- it is time for someone else.PRA members will get what and who they vote for, nothing more and nothing less.

Gary has said he is stepping down as president but I'm not sure that means he will not serve on the BOD and help elect the new president. There are ten other BOD members besides Gary that have been elected by PRA members and hopefully there will be one that is willing and able to make the sacrifices necessary to take on the responsiblity.

[Brent Drake]

I've been a member of PRA for several years and Know Gary well. Gary always gives a very educated view on the PRA and is a very proffesional Instructor. I've seen many people come to his place with a gyro that will not fly or propably kill somebody. Gary always stops his day to help the newcomer and ster them in the right direction. If you are to elect new members, then please make sure they have the experience and the willingness to help people all hours and be very easy to reach. But I do not believe they should have to be life members. A couple of years ago, I was the one who counted the votes at Mentone for the years election. Less than 10% of the BOD actually voted and several of those written ballots were so screwed up, they could not be counted. Not many people will make all of the time, energy, and responsibility need for such an endeaver.

[Heron]

PRA is going one way . . . and that is up!
Gary is going to be around to help!
New Blood is good and Robin is on de money.
If M.J. is right then the PRA is all wrong, only one man for the job out of the entire membership? Impossible!
Sensei Dolph, lets change and see where it goes, the next Prez cannot do much on one term but it will show us the way not to turn to, good thing for future.
If Gary wants to rest, lets respect, if he stays as Prez lets help some more and press him for more action.
Heron

[rgraffeo]

Less than 10% of the BOD actually voted and several of those written ballots were so screwed up, they could not be counted.[/QUOTE]

Brent,
I understand that many folks don't vote. But what was screwed up about the ballots? Were they not filled out right?

[barnstorm2]

MJ,

I agree, that GG has been one of our greatest, hardest working prez ever, and that I am skeptical that a replacement will do a better job. Most people don't know how much GG has done for us, I think largely because he does not gone around 'tooting his own horn' as many 'leaders' do. GG is more do than say.

The good news is that GG will still be here for us and I hope (assume) will still be on the BOD.

. The biggest problem PRA has is that the BOD must be life members-- this is totally counterproductive.


Rob,

I agree that 'new' blood is a good idea as a general concept.

I don't know what large corps you have been involved with but I also have been involved with many non and for profit orgs BODs and I can tell you that my experience is just the opposite.

Almost all charters for BOD I have ever seen or been involved with have some sort of mechanism for making sure a board member is worthy of boardship.

I will just get to the point here. If someone is not willing to pony up $400 (about a quarter of the cost of a set of blades) and have at least a few years of being interested enough in gyros and the PRA to join for few years they have no need to be on the board.

New blood is good, handing the wheel to a bunch of noobs is another thing.

[Brent Drake]

I understand that many folks don't vote. But what was screwed up about the ballots? Were they not filled out right?
Rudy, some of the ballots had 2 and 3 votes for Pres. And your only allowed 1 vote

[Brent Drake]

Tim I agree with you GG has done more for the PRA than anyone knows. And Ive never seen him toot his own horn. He is a very fair and hard working person. Gary takes serveral calls and emails a week and tries to answer them all. And recommends them to join the PRA. His wife Sue works just as hard trying to promote gyro's and their safe flying. Iv'e even spoke with Dave Prator on a couple of occasions at Mentone. He to is very knowledgable and willing to help when he can. Greg Greminger Sorry Greg if I spelled it wrong. Always try to steer a newcomer in the right direction with knowledgeable info. There are a couple more I cannot think of as I write this. But these guys in my opinion help keep PRA alive. And in the past things I have reccomended I was told to get a commitee together and see what happens. But I have never done the commitee thing. I do not have the time. I welcome guys that do. I applaud you!
Brent

[Mayfield]

Filling Garys shoes is going to be real hard. Gary does not talk about it, but I am certain he has bailed the organization out of financial trouble more than once.

Dean wrote a very good post. Many of us (including me) have great ideas on how to make things better, but when it comes to the crunch it is a man like Gary that buckles down and works at it.

I am astounded how long he has kept it up. He gets little praise when things go right and is the one that takes the arrows when things go wrong.

If he does step down when the airport is paid off I hope we can find someone that works as hard as he does.

Jim

[Harry_S.]

Is, or has Mr. Goldsberry, essentially been a retired person?

The amount of a persons *free time* is of importance in a matter such as this, IMO.


Cheers :)

[Heron]

It will be a hard task to replace him, it needs a person with guts, will, time and heart to do it!
Heron

[Brent Drake]

Gary is not retired. He has a sign business in Indianapolis. It keeps him very busy and he puts in long hours.

[PW_Plack]

Considering that the PRA started out as the Bensen owners group, it's remarkable it survives today in any form. The focus of the organization and most of its members on traditional, inexpensive, Bensen-derivative designs may contribute to keeping it like a Bensen Gyrocopter - small and cheap - into the future.

Being led by innovators, ironically, rarely begets more innovation. Innovators can be competitive and somewhat jealous, as reflected in some anecdotes we hear about Dr. Bensen himself. Industry associations, run and funded by representatives of big, established companies, are infamous for talking a good game but stifling real innovation. It's like expecting meaningful campaign reform ideas from lawmakers who will have need to campaign again.

Trying to be an international organization with so few members means few hands to do the work at events. Recruiting a membership with the common interest of getting airborn as cheaply as possible may mean many members who can't travel frequently to distant fly-ins.

By all accounts, Gary has made a considerable contribution to PRA and to the sport. Squabbles have occured among the membership, caused mainly by lack of communication, or failure by the BOD to follow bylaws, but if it all comes together in the end, these rifts will eventually heal. I believe PRA will survive, if not flourish, and that Gary will be appreciated historically.

It is absolutely true, IMO, that limiting BOD eligibility to life members will lead to an inward-looking organization focused on "what we've always done before." You don't guarantee a knowledgeable or competent board by requiring lifetime commitments, but rather by requiring qualifications such as minimum membership duration, pilot credentials, builder history, etc.

If a life-long gyro enthusiast who pays his PRA membership year-to-year can't be elected, but a newbie can pony up $500 and be instantly eligible for the board, you're not discriminating based on experience. It becomes more like the initiation fee at a golf club. What you're really doing is locking out anyone not willing to demonstrate $500 in personal financial support for the assumptions of the past. Nobody's saying you can't do it, but if you do, don't complain about stagnation!

[PW_Plack]

Considering that the PRA started out as the Bensen owners group, it's remarkable it survives today in any form. The focus of the organization and most of its members on traditional, inexpensive, Bensen-derivative designs may contribute to keeping it small and poor going forward.

Being led by innovators, ironically, doesn't always promote more innovation. Innovators can be competitive and somewhat jealous, as reflected in some anecdotes we hear about Dr. Bensen himself. Trying to be an international organization with so few members means few hands to do the work at events. Recruiting a membership with the common interest of getting airborn as cheaply as possible may mean many members who can't travel frequently to distant fly-ins.

By all accounts, Gary has made a considerable contribution to PRA and to the sport. Squabbles have occured among the membership, caused mainly by lack of communication, or failure by the BOD to follow bylaws, but if it all comes together in the end, these rifts will eventually heal. I believe PRA will survive, if not flourish, and that Gary will be appreciated historically.

It is absolutely true, IMO, that limiting BOD eligibility to life members will lead to an inward-looking organization focused on "what's always worked before." You don't ensure a knowledgeable board by requiring lifetime commitments, but rather by requiring qualifications such as minimum membership duration, pilot credentials, builder history, etc.

If a life-long gyro enthusiast who pays his PRA membership year-to-year can't be elected, but a newbie can pony up $500 and be instantly eligible for the board, you're not discriminating based on experience. It becomes more like the initiation fee at a golf club. What you're really doing is locking out anyone not willing to demonstrate $500 in personal financial support for the assumptions of the past. Nobody's saying you can't do it, but don't turn around and complain if the organization becomes stagnated.

[Rotornut]

Sorry. Heron did you Join PRA? Do you have your Chapter up and running?
I ask you this as you say New Blood, can we have yours?
1994 is when Richard(catfish) started flying gyros and I got involved because of the PEOPLE!! Bud O'Neal, Ernie, Connie, Mike, Pat ETC ETC.
Since then I have become more and more involved, not as a Pilot but as a Wife and Family Member to the Gyro movement.

Change is Good dont read my post wrong.
But Gary is worth his Weight in Gold!

MJ :)

[Rotornut]

Dean, Also the more that the PRA Members Know the Better off PRA is.

MJ :) just my 2 cents

[Dean_Dolph]

Dean, Also the more that the PRA Members Know the Better off PRA is.

MJ :) just my 2 centsMJ, I wouldn't dispute that! I've beat on the need of more communication thing for so long that I'm sure people have closed their ears. Did you have a reason to think that I wasn't in favor of complete and open communication?

[Rotornut]

No Dean, I just wanted my post to be uderstood in the manner that I posted it. Thats all. I have talked with you about your views and ideas for PRA and I stand with you and with PRA. MJ:)

[barnstorm2]

If a life-long gyro enthusiast who pays his PRA membership year-to-year can't be elected, but a newbie can pony up $500 and be instantly eligible for the board, you're not discriminating based on experience. ........

Not true.

You must be a PRA member in good standing for a number of years, five, I think.

The very point of it is to keep your scenerio from being possible. You have it backwards.

[Heron]

M.J. you will know when I finally join the PRA, it will be just a simbolic thing.
I consider myself a member, paid dues sometime in the past and care about what is going to happen.
The Club here is going with lots of sacrifice and shortly I will present them with the question about joining or not. I hope somenone can come here and give them the dos and donts and show why it is important to join.
I am amemic right now and that is the only blood you will get from me.
Anyway, if you want to keep this thread for members only, just say so and I will stay out of it.
Thanks
Heron

[Rotornut]

M.J. you will know when I finally join the PRA, it will be just a simbolic thing.
I consider myself a member, paid dues sometime in the past and care about what is going to happen.

Simbolic OK.. Heron this Forum is not for Members Only. I Was asking as I wanted to know not that you need to be a member of anything.

You for one year joined Sunstate, but not since. Then you say you are starting a Chapter of Rotorcraft on the other coast. I am Nosy I guess and Interested that is all. I did not mean to put you on the spot or in any position. Only asking and asking From You not others. If I overstepped I am Sorry. MJ :)

[Heron]

Not at all, but as you started this thread with good intentions I said I will do watever you want.
Tri County Rotors, Inc has been initiated, 25 members so far (guess who's not a paying member?) several pre meetings to explain and discuss options.
Today is the meeting for shareholders (all invited) to discuss payments for our trainer and instructor expenses. Also we are collecting the first round of shares (500 each) and discussing air time for the shareholders.
We have a glider (boom) in the mends, Hector offered the frame and the Club will by the blades (26's anyone?)
I paid dues twice for Sunstate and for TRA, once for PRA and made my best efforts to go to Mentone and have the Golden there, lots of work but I am happy I did go.
Now I have over 15 g's on this enterprise of mine, just learning and participating so I can be in a position to help, not the PRA in specific, but the gyro movement as a whole.
So . . .my favorit Clubs will have to wait a little longer for some financial pin drop from my part.
Just compiling and translating material for those not speaking english costs me so far 300 bucks. It is a pain in the neck but it has to be done.
As I am ready to leave the country as my residence (I'll be back!!!) joining the PRA it will be only to say to all, do it . . .it is worth!
Heron