Pitbull

[eclipse]

In this forum that is little about Pitbull.
I have bargain a Pitbull as a kit from one that never get any done.
I wish to by some part from North American Rotorwerks, and sent a mail on on adress i found on the net “john1@nwi.net” but i receive “No such user” form that mailserver.
Is there any out there that can tel me what mailaddres i can use to reach N.A.R or can it be true that they don't have any mailadress.
I hate to use the phone, and i don't use fax.

From Norway

[Chuck Roberg]

Here's the information I could find from the PRA site;
http://www.pra.org/index.php?module=article&view=61&page_num=12

North American Rotorwerks
P.O. Box 1363
Chelan, WA 98816
(509) 683-1507 phone/fax
john1@nwi.net
http://www.classics.nu/pitbull

Hope this helps. Good luck on your build. Let us know how it flys when your finished.

[eclipse]

Thank you Chuck.
There it's the same mail address that i get “undelivered mail returned to sender”.
well i have to call them on Monday.

Is there any Pitbull owners that can tell about experience with different rotorblades and sizes on Pitbull, and share other experiences about Pitbull.

Erik
Norway

[pbool]

Hello Erik of Norway, I also see very little on here about the pitbulls. I have had one for several years now and will try to help you out any way possible. Mine has a rotax 503 DC with a 59" ultraprop. I had a 68x30 Tennessee prop on it for about a year and it gave better performance all around. I currently have 129 hours on it but haven't flown it this year at all due to the fact that I banged it up.Please don't ask how I did it because I can't imagine anyone else on the planet doing it the way I did. I have since repaired it and have replaced the gimbal head with a Brock but still haven't worked out the control rods. I had dragon wings on it before but am going to try the Brock blades because they are hand startable and I took the prerotator off to lose weight. The only big change I felt was necessary was to the landing gear. With the fixed tailwheel it was impossible to maneuver it on the ground. It had the turning radius of an aircraft carrier. I added heel brakes and made the tailwheel steer with the rudder. I also added in some toein to the landing gear. If you desire, I can post some photos on here as to how I did it. John M

[eclipse]

I have a Hirth 2703 with 55hp that i will mount in the gyro.
I will order rotorhead and rotorblades from Rotor Flight Dynamics.
How many feet was your DragonWings rotor, and what is your opinion what is proper size.
My weight i nearly 100 kilo (220 lb), and i want to make a 70 liter (18 gallon) gas tank.
For me its not a issue to prerotate by hand, and i think to by a kit from Dick Winderlinche.
What is important for me is low drag and god lift and reasonable price.

What i want to by from N.A.R is canopy so i have a fully enclose gyro.
In Norway we have a cold winter (there is not any polar bear in the street).
I can see of the pictures that is cold where you live to.

Do you have the data for hangtest.

I will be grateful for pictures and any information i recieve.

Erik
Norway

[pbool]

I have to go install a 200 amp electric service this morning but will post some info when I get back tonight. My blades were 23 ft and seemed to work pretty well. I'll take the camera and make a picture of how the hang test is done as shown to me by VanVoorhees. When he demonstrated his method at Mentone some people got all over him saying that he was doing it wrong but it worked for me. As for the gas tank, I don't think one that size will fit in there. I had a custom tank made that fastens to the front of the mast and fits the shape of the fuselage. It made for much more footroom especially when wearing snowmobile boots and raised the capacity from the original 5 gal. to 9.0 gal. I also made a bigger windshield and somewhere have a photo of it with me in it to show the size. If I can't find it, I'll make a new one. I am able to fly it in relative comfort on some pretty cold days. I'll write more tonight. John M

[pbool]

Here is a photo of how the hang test was done. With the gyro suspended from the teeter bolt, place the angle indicator as shown. The angle should be from 9 to 13.5 degrees nose down. Then retest it with you in the cockpit. John M

[pappyadkins]

First of all I'm new to this 'posting' thing... I hope it all shows up for you...

I had ordered the info pack & been watching this gyro for the last couple of years... I've even talked with John Vanvoorhees(sp?) on the phone several times...

I'm happy for you on your 'prize' I'd love to fall into a kit...

As far as this company, I've noticed on several occasions, they're a little slow on the response time... It even took quite a while to get the info package... With that being said... I just love the finished look! And when I called - I got 'straight' through (I think) 4 out of 5 times...

Here's to the BAD NEWS (I think), I BELIEVE these guys are out of business! I'm from Texas, IF they were closer (or IF I get up that way) I WILL try & LOOK them up!

I hope this helps... Also I have their info package (if you want copies of anything), email me & I'll send you a scanned copy... My Email is pappy@adcoaviation.com(I hope that's OK to post my Email...)

Let me know your progress...

david

[Desert Flyer]

I was told by a guy in Washington who knows John that the company has been put on hold due to a family illness. I currently know of three pitbulls for sale, two in Washington and one in Montana. I would be glad to forward the contact info in anyone is interested.

[eclipse]

Hello Hal
Is any of this two seater.
I wish to by a two seater if i can find one.

Stein Erik Lundblad

[eclipse]

Here are some pictures of my Pitbull project.
I think i can take my first test flight in early april.

[Desert Flyer]

It looks like you've been busy! I just picked up my Pitbull kit yesterday - drove 760 miles and had to unload it in the rain - but I'll be ready to start soon. Let us know how that engine works for you - is that a 1/2 VW? Looks like you changed out the rudder bar for pedals - does your tail wheel steer? Anyway, keep up the good work...

[John Stahl]

I would like to know where the Bull is in Montana?

[pbool]

It looks like you have done a lot of really nice work on it. Your gimbal head looks different than mine. Mine has the rotator motor on the back side instead of the front. I also don't see the gas tank in the photos anywhere. Where did you manage to put that? I mounted my seat to the keel and don't have the aluminum frame like yours shows. That's the great thing about these things, everyone has a few different ideas to put into them. Some of them work and some don't. I just did some modifications to mine and they didn't work at all. I put a bensen gimbal head on it in place of the one it came with and now realize there is no good way to hook the control rods up to it. Some days you eat the bear and some days the bear eats you. John M

[eclipse]

The engine i use is a Verner Motor http://www.vernermotor.com/ 84hp.
I build new rudder pedals that is like any fixwing pedals, the original pedal with that single bar i think will confuse me to think i is in a trike/flexwing and kick the wrong pedals, as you know in a flexwing everything is opposite to ordinary plane.
I fly Fixwing, Flexwing and gyro.
The tail wheel don't steer at this moment, but i have brakes on each main wheel.
If this don't work i, make the same steering mechanism that John M have build.
I have mounted a gimbal head from Rotor flight Dynamics, the prerotator is from Wunderlich and the rotorbrake is hydraulic brake to a bicycle.
I have not make the gas tank yet.

John M i perform a hang test yesterday, and when i sit in the plane it's 5 degrees nose down.
You write that you test it with no pilot in the seat, and then it should be 9 to 13.5 degrees nose down. What is degrees nose down with you in the seat.

[Desert Flyer]

It looks like you have done a lot of really nice work on it. Your gimbal head looks different than mine. Mine has the rotator motor on the back side instead of the front. I also don't see the gas tank in the photos anywhere. Where did you manage to put that? I mounted my seat to the keel and don't have the aluminum frame like yours shows. That's the great thing about these things, everyone has a few different ideas to put into them. Some of them work and some don't. I just did some modifications to mine and they didn't work at all. I put a bensen gimbal head on it in place of the one it came with and now realize there is no good way to hook the control rods up to it. Some days you eat the bear and some days the bear eats you. John M

John, I sent you an e-mail with a photo of someone who set up Brock KB3 control rods in a Pitbull. I tried to post the photo here, but it is too big. From the looks of the picture, it might make sitting in the pitbull quite difficult, but obviously not impossible.

[pbool]

It has been 4 years ago but I think it was 12.5 degrees nose down with me in it. This was also measured while holding the stick as near centered as possible. John M

[eclipse]

Hello Dan

I am finish with all the building that is necessary to begin to fly my Pitbull.
The control authority have given me the necessary license to begin to fly it, i got this a few days ago.
I have tested to tax up and down a couple of times on the airfield, and it is very different from all other gyro's i have flown, so i feel i need a lot of practice so that i don't tip it over and damage it.
Now it's summer vacation and i don't have time to try it out more before the vacation is over.
There is two things i will finish after i have began to fly it, and this is to modify and mount the cowling, and make a proper windscreen.

Erik
Norway
http://www.gyrokopter.no

[eclipse]

Two additional pictures

[gyroplanes]

ERIK,

I just tried the phone number for NRW Pitbull and got a "No longer in service" message. The e-mail is bad as well.
I will ask of my friends in his area to see what John's status is.

I would suggest looking at some preformed canopies found on other aircraft anyway as I don't believe the full canopy was offered on the Pitbull.

[Desert Flyer]

Wow! You have really made some progress there! Good work...

Please let me know what you think of the Pitbull after you have flown it and how the Verner engine works.

[Airone]

Hey Guys, John V. is back in Seattle and his number is 206-763-9392
and the email is : normanv@seanet.com

[C.A. Bach]

Has anybody built the two seat version, and can report on any modifacations and performance. Im really intrested in it and want to here other peoples imput before squandering of the kids college fund.

[Fragmaster]

So those flying this gyro, what do you think of it. I am in Washington and have not seen one, but on the net have heard mixed reviews most skewed to the negative. I take all of that with a grain of salt as I dont think any of them were from anyone who flew or owned a PB

[JRB549]

Very nice work, keep posting photos please.

[Desert Flyer]

So those flying this gyro, what do you think of it. I am in Washington and have not seen one, but on the net have heard mixed reviews most skewed to the negative. I take all of that with a grain of salt as I dont think any of them were from anyone who flew or owned a PB

I have an unassembled Pitbull kit and hope to begin assembly next year after I move. I have been on this forum for a while now, and I have spoken to only two people here that have flown them.

One had positive things to say and the other had negative comments. Negative comments on the Pitbull are easy to find on this forum, but if you want to speak with the pilot who had good things to say search for him here - his user name is "pbool".

I am also in contact with a gyro pilot who is not a forum member who is building one and should be flying soon. Let me know if you would like me to pass along his results when he is done.

[Fragmaster]

I am also in contact with a gyro pilot who is not a forum member who is building one and should be flying soon. Let me know if you would like me to pass along his results when he is done.

I would very much like that. I have the demo tape from NARW and the aircraft looks great and the tractor design is something I like. The only thing I dont like about it is the tail dragger config, I like my tricycle gear with a nosewheel. Of course looks dont fly and if we tossed Pam Anderson out of a plane she would not stay up long, but she would look great as she plummeted. I have what may be argued as one of the crudest and ugliest PPCs out there, (AFU) but it is also one of the strongest and best I have flown.

[Desert Flyer]

I would very much like that. I have the demo tape from NARW and the aircraft looks great and the tractor design is something I like. The only thing I dont like about it is the tail dragger config, I like my tricycle gear with a nosewheel. Of course looks dont fly and if we tossed Pam Anderson out of a plane she would not stay up long, but she would look great as she plummeted. I have what may be argued as one of the crudest and ugliest PPCs out there, (AFU) but it is also one of the strongest and best I have flown.

No problem. I have added you to my "buddy list". As soon as Charlie starts flying his Pitbull and I hear from him I'll let you know what he tells me.

As with most people who have built these things, he is modifying the landing gear to allow for steering. The toe-in adjustment is also important on the Pitbull (per pbool) for ground handling performance.

I have never seen that tape from NARW, is there anything interesting on it? Could you make me a copy? I'd be happy to send you a postage-paid container and some money to cover the cost of the tape.

I too am partial to the tractor configuration and the Pitbull's simplicity of design appeals to me as well. But I think just about everyone else here on the forum has nothing good to say about them. As with anything else, you have to take what facts you can gather and draw your own conclusions. :D

[eclipse]

Last week i tested the Pitbull on my field and it was difficult to handle on the ground.
The field is bumpy av have a slightly slope on the cross of the field.
I have mounted the rear wheel with steering and spring like the most tail dragger fix wing.
I taxed two tree hours and make some small progress in handling.
If i had tried this on a real airport that is smooth i think it will handle ok.
But, the way this plane handle on the ground is far away what i wish my gyro to handle, it is to difficult to use.

I wish my gyro to be no more difficult than other gyro i have flown with a pusher configuration.
From the field i have flown many type of pusher gyros, and this have not been any problem.
I think the main problem with the Pitbull is that it is to short and the rudder is not efficient in low speed.
The Pitbull is delivered with fix rear wheel and i can see the reason why it like this. But i can not use this with our “airports” that is no more than a grass strip in a corn field.

[chuter]

Nice looking machine....I hope you get the taxi problems worked out.

I've never tried to take mine off from a grass strip, so I don't know how it will do.

[Mike Schallmann]

I think Charlies is powered by a BMW--

[animal]

looks great, how does the power seem to be? keep us posted.

[asmuzsr]

The Sonex fixed wing has a direct connection between the rudder and tailwheel, no springs. Supose to make their plane a pussycat to handle. Wonder if that would be better?
Also most tail draggers handle better on grass than hard surface.

[eclipse]

I attend to make some modification regards rear wheel steering.
I think the spring must be real tight or not have a spring at all.
Now it is unstable weather in Norway and i am short on time.
I think not am finish with this and new test before after new year.

[PW_Plack]

Eclipse,

Here's the thread John started, including descriptions and pictures showing how he addressed the problem.

Old Thread (http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4313)

He changed both the tailwheel setup and the main gear alignment to get his Pitbull to handle on the ground.

[Mike Jackson]

Talked with Charlie Mara a few days ago. He's been taxi testing his PB. He's had some cooling problems with the BMW but has only had it to about 40 mph. Nothing airborne yet. He's experiencing some problems with main gear toe-in/camber and is trying to dial that in.

He's also put on a tail wheel he can lock for TO/Landing but unlock for more maneuverability to taxi.

His PB is on hold now while he finishes his Sport Pilot instructor rating.

If he gets his single going and his SP rating he might be looking at John VanV's
2 place for training.

[pbool]

I have been reading about the taxi problems some are having. My pitbull isn't flying due to the fact I banged it up during the winter. It would need a new mast, control rods, and rotors to fly again. However, I took it out today and took some pictures of the airspeed while I was moving down the runway. I also took a pic or 2 of the runway. John M

[WHY]

Wonder if a tailwheel that can be locked in position for take off and un -locked for taxi will be the answer?

Have been told by some of the older WWII pilots that in the taildragger trainers of that day, if you did not have the tailwheel locked on take off and landing things could get VERY EXCITING for a few seconds before something got bent.

Tony

[Airone]

Tony
That is a great idea, in the 2006 Aircraft Spruce & Specialty's catalog, they offer a 4" Raven Locking Tailwheel P/N 06-00122 for $375.00 and good up to 1250 lbs.

Jon P. Gardner







Wonder if a tailwheel that can be locked in position for take off and un -locked for taxi will be the answer?

Have been told by some of the older WWII pilots that in the taildragger trainers of that day, if you did not have the tailwheel locked on take off and landing things could get VERY EXCITING for a few seconds before something got bent.

Tony

[WHY]

Hi Jon

Have learned one thing about tailwheels, the bigger in diameter the more stable, with in reason of course.

In my early training in fixed wing I learned in a old Aeronca 7AC that was a dream to handle on the ground, but did not learn until later that it had a large Scott tailwheel on it, thought I was good with a tailwheel until I tried to taxi a friend's T-craft with the little hard rubber original tail wheel and could not keep it on the taxiway, but he had not problem with it, having learned on it.

The 7AC with the large Scott tailwheel was a cake walk, also Jim Eich's little experimental XNJ790 used a tailwheel the same size as the mains.

Tony

[Airone]

Tony

Thank for that info, I havent flown to many taildraggers to see the differents yet.
They do offer a 6" locking tailwheel for $425.00 too.

[chuter]

Just want to add a little to the discussion based on what I’ve experienced with mine; I have doubts about a locking tailwheel working.

I’ve noticed that when going over bumps (even a good sized crack in the runway), when the tailwheel is bouncing up and has less traction, a crosswind (or the bump itself) will move the tail to the side. If you don’t have enough airspeed for rudder control I don’t see how you could correct and get back on course.

I’ve never tried a locking tailwheel so I really don’t know, but I do know that I find myself correcting for these little excursions.

Now that I'm thinking about it, I usually notice it while taxiing with the blades stopped. Perhaps having the blades loaded puts enough pressure on the tailwheel to keep it planted.

If you could lock it and unlock, you'd at least have the choice.

Anyway, something to consider.

[Desert Flyer]

Last week i tested the Pitbull on my field and it was difficult to handle on the ground.
The field is bumpy av have a slightly slope on the cross of the field.
I have mounted the rear wheel with steering and spring like the most tail dragger fix wing.
I taxed two tree hours and make some small progress in handling.
If i had tried this on a real airport that is smooth i think it will handle ok.
But, the way this plane handle on the ground is far away what i wish my gyro to handle, it is to difficult to use.

I wish my gyro to be no more difficult than other gyro i have flown with a pusher configuration.
From the field i have flown many type of pusher gyros, and this have not been any problem.
I think the main problem with the Pitbull is that it is to short and the rudder is not efficient in low speed.
The Pitbull is delivered with fix rear wheel and i can see the reason why it like this. But i can not use this with our “airports” that is no more than a grass strip in a corn field.

Erik,

Thanks for posting the update. Unfortunately personal problems have kept me from working on my Pitbull this year. But if I can manage to keep my kit through these troubled times, I hope to start work on it in the Spring.

You're progress inspires me. I hope you can work thru the ground handling issues. I'll keep checking the forum from time to time to see how things are going.

[giro5]

My citibra had a scott tail wheel, ground handling was no problem but it had toe brakes and these were the primary directional control at taxi and low speed on the ground. Without the individual brakes I think it would have been a handfull under some circumstances.

[magilla]

Hi all - been following this thread, as I am about to buy Joe Terminella's JT-2 tractor frame.

I think that the use of tailwheels on helicopters would be more applicable to the situation than the typical FW taildragger.

The Sikorsky aircraft all have locking tailwheels - to be locked on take-off and landing, but then allowed to free-wheel during ground taxi.

On the UH-60 Blackhawk, you can still make small corrections to heading with the tailwheel locked.

Caveats:

#1: Helos have tail rotor thrust to use while ground taxiing ... so effectiveness of a locking tailwheel would all depend upon the thrust of your prop and the surface area of your rudder.

#2: UH-60's have independant toe brakes that also assist with steering.

Hmmmmm. I still think I am going to go with a larger diameter locking tailwheel. If that doesn't work, then I will try the mod to correlate pedal and rudder.

Final note: Locking tailwheels are great - you don't realize the security and safety it gives you until you try a roll-on landing at 60 Knots with a broken tailwheel pin... So I am a great believer in them.

Spencer

[karlbamforth]

Mr Gardner,

What aircraft is that in your avatar ?
Do my eyes deceive me or does it have two sets of rotor blades ?

Any chance of posting the pic full size for us to see more clearly ?

[Airone]

It is the X-Gyro that I downloaded for my Microsoft 2004 Flightsim
Yes it has 2 sets of rotorblades, it is fun to fly and even has autopilot and GPS

[Airone]

Here is some pic's of the X-gyro you should be able to find it to download from www.simviation.com x-gyro3

Jon P. Gardner

[eclipse]

My Pitbull project began with my wish to have a amphibious gyro.
To make a gyro relative safe with floats it had to be a tractor type gyro.
I have talked with John V and he have flown Pitbull with floats, and it was stable and flown well.
Instead of sort out tail wheel problem, i now have began the work to put my Pitbull on top of floats.
I will do one design change on my Pitbull, and it is to enlarge the horizontal stabilizer and integrate this on top and between the floats. The stabilizer will be build that it acts as rear mounting brackets.
In the spring i will be finish with this work.
If this works fine i will next winter mount wheel on my floats, something like Krucker and Full Lotus.
With this wheel my Pitbull is no longer a tail dragger.

[WindRyder06]

Erik,
Did John V. also tell you he flipped his Pitbull in the water while it was on floats? Please be very careful with that set up. I am not saying that it can't be done, I have John's video with the Pitbull on floats, I am saying be careful. I think the Pitbull would be very cool as a tri-gear. :D

[eclipse]

Yes the gyro flipped but this was not under flying, and was related to other thing that handling and stability issue.