View Full Version : Polish or Not?
03-20-2004, 09:31 PM
I have standard Brock blades and have been flying them about 4 hours now. There is still writing on them and the bugs are pilling up. I've been using alcohol to clean the bugs, but I need something stronger to get the writing off.
I was thinking about using some "Mothers" or "Fritz" and a buffer and just polish them to a glare!
Steve says that clean blades can sometimes take on a personality of there own, What do yall think?
03-21-2004, 05:04 AM
When is some kind soul gonna let you try a set of DW's? I would really like to hear your opinion over the Brock blades. Are you going to buy a larger hub bar now?
Did you get your LW frame yet?
BTW, I have cleaned and polished my McCutchens with just about everything and noticed only a smoother feel, maybe.
03-21-2004, 05:57 AM
I too really would like for you to try a set of DW's before you go to the trouble of polishing yours. If you were here, I'd let you try mine. Surely someone close to you has a set of 24, 25, or even 26 foot DW's you could try.
03-21-2004, 07:04 AM
Why yall pimping Dragon Wings? What the deal?
03-21-2004, 07:05 AM
No Chris I haven't recieved the LW. Not expecting it for a while.
03-21-2004, 07:09 AM
John, I'm just trying to help you. I think you would see a big improvement.
03-21-2004, 07:30 AM
Dragon wings are much better and would increase your gyros overall performance over the blades on there now.
Polish the current blades up and use Armor All type tire shine to wipe the bugs off and they will stay pretty for a long long time. Then post them for sale and then go get some dragons. Fly and smile a lot. ;D
03-21-2004, 10:27 AM
I know yall are trying to help. ;D I just don't know anything about Dragon Wings or why they would be better. Just fishing for info Chuck.
03-21-2004, 01:26 PM
John I'm not pushin the DW's, I got a brand new set of Brock blades myself. Mine sure could use a polishing also! But before you spend too much time ,effort & money on the longer hub bar, I would sure like to hear what you think of the DW's. You just might start pimpin them yourself!
I wonder how many sets Ernie has sold? Lots of them out there flying.... they're doin something right!
Have you thought about what blades you are gonna use on that "dreadnaught" 2 place you're getting? Just kidding about that "dreadnaught" statement Ron H. !
It's just nice to try before you buy, Just make sure you give full payment up front before you try someone elses shiny DW's. LOL
03-21-2004, 03:48 PM
1000 plus and counting since 1991. He has test flown each set before they were sent out. :) It would be better if some non biased person would comment on their flight charteristics. I do know this, they are fairly priced, and dad gets them to his customers when he promises them. :)
03-21-2004, 03:54 PM
I can attest to what Mike has said about his dad and the blades.
03-22-2004, 07:48 AM
What do a set of 24 footers go for, and and does that come with a hub bar? Would I need to buy another head?
03-22-2004, 09:02 AM
John, I believe a set, complete with hub bar, is in the 15 to 16 hundred range. Ask Ernie about whether or not it'll fit your head. My thought is that it will. Measure between your plates on top and I can tell you if it will work or not.
Don't you know someone that has a set close by that might let you try them?
03-22-2004, 03:49 PM
Dragon Wings come already set up with the hub bar. They have been test flown and tracked. I just talked to dad they will fit your head as long as it is a standard brock head.The prices are as follows: 22 ft disk $1350.00 and go up $100.00 a foot up to 29Ft. Shipping is not included it is $145.00 to the nearest airport to you that can handle jet traffic. In your case a set of 24 ft. blades would be $1696.00. The blades are usually shpped 7 to 10 days after funds have been recieved and cleared. If You are bringing you machine you can try a set at Bensen Days. Anyone is welcome to try a set just remember we have a you bend them, you own them policy. I hope this helps. :)
03-22-2004, 05:48 PM
The 1696$ price is shipped Blade box and all right Mike?
I like the option of going to Bensen Days and buying them off Ernie there and saving about 200$ by not needing Shipping and or a box to put them in. Plus you can try a few different sizes to make sure you are getting just what you need.
when I bought my old Red Dominator it had 25 footers on it and a terrible rotorshake. I met Ernie at ROC with it and we tried a set of 24's and then a set of 23's and found that the 23's were the smoothest blades and did for me just what I wanted. Saved me from having to buy a set of 24's just to find out the rotorshake was still going to be there.
just to clarify, my rotorshake was not due to the blades themselves being out of whack, But because of the stiffness of my mast and the speed the blades turned caused a harmonic vibration that made it feel like flying a jackhammer. The 23's spun so much faster than the 25s or 24s that the Harmonics of the blades were different than the harmonics of my mast and hence... No more shake!
03-22-2004, 06:11 PM
John, I talked to Rick, and he flys Dragon wings on his bensen. He said you will not be happy with the Brock blades. Rick has over 1800 hours on his gyro and said the dragon wings are the best he has ever used. And he still hand starts his blades!
He said the dragon wings just perform better than anything he has ever used. And he even has a set of helicopter blades that he flew on the gyro.
They are SWEET looking, and apparantly perform just as good as they look, they ARE more prone to flapping during spin up. Hell next time you are down there we can swap blades and let you fly my 23ft Big A** stiff rotorhawks and see if it makes a difference. I saw a guy selling a set or rotor hawks at ROC for $700.
I'll have your GPS mount too. :D
03-23-2004, 05:45 AM
Ron, why did the previous owner/ builder of your red Dom. buy the 25' DW's?
You said they shook because of the stiff mast & blade speed. Is there anyway to adjust the pitch on them to change speed?
Did you ever solve the stiff mast problem? Was it built incorrectly or what causes this phenomina? Did I spell that right?
Did you sell or trade the 25s for the 23's? What was the RRPM of the 3 different sets ?
03-23-2004, 06:41 AM
The guy who bought my Dominator got 23 foot wings not 25's.
The other red dominator I sold last summer for a friend, the one with the 2Si 100 horsepower engine, Had 25 footers. It flew fine with them.
I had sold my 25's to another gyrohead who was going to use them on a direct drive Subaru machine.
I was turning around 305-310 straight and level at 60mph with the 25's. With the 24's it was around 320-325, and with the 23's it was around 350-370 All at the same speeds. With the 23's in a tight banked turn I would see well over 400 RRPM.
Every machine is different. The mast on one Dominator may be stiffer or more flewxable than the mast on another Dominator just like it. Same thing with any make of gyro. No matter what kind of gyro or mast you may have, you can run into the same thing as I did where the rotors turn at a speed that causes harmanics that make the shake real bad even with perfectly smooth blades.
Ask Ernie about it, he could explain it better. Or maybe Doug R or Udi or someone else could give a better explaination.
03-23-2004, 08:41 AM
Hell I'm Sold!!! The only question is what size? The 24 footers I have on it now will hit the ground if the cyclic is in the full aft position. I wonder if 23ft would be better for me? I just don't know.
I'm not going to Bensen days, but I'm ok with shipping.
Anyone know someone wanting Brock blades?
03-23-2004, 09:33 AM
John, just my opinion, but I believe you need a minimum of 24 footers and maybe 25 or 26 would be best. Maybe the DW's won't hit the ground. Mine don't. You'll just have to check to see.
Do yourself a favor and try some different lengths before you buy.
03-23-2004, 11:48 AM
Good advice Chuck.
03-23-2004, 12:02 PM
If you want DW's, why not call Ernie and see what he might recommend? Find out the empy/all-up weight of your machine without the rotors, and I'm sure he can tell you what would be a good size.
I seem to remember Dave DeWinter flying his Subaru-powered Bensen on 23' Dragon Wings. I'm sure your VW-powered machine is lighter.
03-23-2004, 01:51 PM
John, it is always better to be 1' too long than 1' too short with rotor blades.
If you are concerned, make new longer head plates and longer control tubes. an extra 6" would be fine.
Down under we all use 1/4" plate material for head, cluster, cheek plates etc.
That reminds me that I have to make 2 head plate sets today for some more testing of rotor heads.
It is a bugger that manufactures vary things a little some times. Then the biggest hammer in my tool box won't make things fit!!!! LOL
03-23-2004, 02:05 PM
Thanks yall. I talk to Ernie. I'm glad Mike is an active member of this forum.
03-23-2004, 02:22 PM
Thank You ! :)
03-24-2004, 03:37 PM
:D I have a friend that use bugs off on this rotorway. I beleived is made by turtule wax. I use nwe finish from walmart or kmart. I use to use QMI paint oxidizer wax, great but expensive.
Polish is the way to go be careful to to bend the trailing edge with the polisher. benn there done that.
I have never flown a DW but I sold one to a friend that have an aircomand and they were spining really fast. They felt so good the guy went island hopping. Scary trip but he love it.
03-25-2004, 06:56 PM
John and all,
Nothing more to say that hasn't been said other than I have directly compared the DW's with the Bensen blades and there is no comparison.
The only kind that haven't been tried on the LW's is the RAF or extruded Fleck blades.
03-26-2004, 07:54 AM
I'll give them a shot.
I am sure Ernie will help you size the blades right, but if you are concerned about having blades longer than 23 ft due to ground clearance, you can use Chuck Beaty's spreadsheet to calculate which size is best for you.
If 24 ft Brock blades work well for you than IMHO 23 DWs is what you need. Besides, you can't be any fatter than Ron, and he used 23 ft blades ;)
I don't want to post Chuck's spreadsheet here because I don't have his permission, but I will email it to you if you want. I can also make the calcs for you if you give me your gross weight and the altitude you are flying from.
03-26-2004, 09:35 AM
you can use the free program you'll find here:
03-26-2004, 10:10 AM
Gas @ 8.3 gal=50lbs
total bird, me, and a full tank=563lbs
I figure @ 22 foot rotor system A=379.94 which is 1.48lbs per square inch.
I figure @ 24 foot rotor system A=452.16 which is 1.25lbs per square inch.
To me when I first flew the 22s I felt like I was gonna fall out of the sky with every turn, but I was also flying way behind the power curve.
Now that I've learned alittle about flying mine, the 24s feel great! Even a little floaty on landings.
If you feel the 23 DW are the ticket, I'm in! I do worry about ground strike with the 24s when spinning the blades to balance and tail first, super slow landings.
Here is the calculation for Da Screw, fitted with a pair of 23 DWs, flying at a DA of 1000 ft (calc courtesy CB). The numbers look really good, but you should really get Ernie's blessing before buying.
03-26-2004, 12:34 PM
Udy, The machine Ron was flying was totally different than what John is flying. John, in my opion, will need longer blades due to the lack of thrust. Flyem, then buyem!
03-26-2004, 12:55 PM
Mr. Mike Boyette,
Could you run these wieghts and measure by your Dad and see what he says please? Don't know to go with 23s or 24s. Thanks in advance.
03-26-2004, 04:06 PM
I spoke to him earlier in the week he said he wouldn't go any bigger than 23' disk on a VW powered KB2. I Hope this helps. I think if you went to a 24' disk you would have ground clearence problems. I maybe wrong. When I see hime tommarow I will ask him again. He does visit this forum, however he usually only reads posts. He leaves it up to me to post. :)
03-26-2004, 05:32 PM
John, just a minor (well, maybe not so minor!) point, gas weighs pretty close to 6.5 lb/gal. Water is what weighs 8.3 lb/gal.
03-26-2004, 06:38 PM
Udi, John IS a lot fatter than me. I lost 3 pounds this week and still pushing 203. John has about 15-20 pounds on me.
03-26-2004, 07:57 PM
8.3 gal is the size of my tank. I figured 6lbs per gal. 50lbs because 6x8.3=49.8lbs.
You wouldn't wiegh 203 on the moon!
03-26-2004, 07:59 PM
How much would Dad come off a set of 23s taking on trade-in for my Brock Blades 2 foot hub bar (22ft) and blade box?
03-26-2004, 08:02 PM
Good one, John!
03-27-2004, 02:27 PM
No trade ins. I posted the price list earlier. You can save yourself shipping if you pick them up at BD. :)
03-27-2004, 07:21 PM
John my scale is expensive and digital - and tells me my body fat percentage as well. 203 baby! It is okay to be upset, I will comfort you over a round of McDonalds double cheeseburgers at Roc....
03-27-2004, 07:34 PM
I new the answer...I was trying to be cute.
Your on! I'm a sucker for MD double cheeseburgers. How did you lose the wieght? Dr. Phill's new book?
03-27-2004, 08:09 PM
I call it the "Working the weedwacker" diet plan. I am back to work, back to walking my Arse off all over peoples lawns with the weedwacker and blowers and fertilizer spreaders etc.... - I get to sit on my mower so I do get a break! -
Winter time is hard on my body with nothing much physical to do. Once I start working I can lose weight fast. I plan - yeah right you say.... - to stop smoking, and cut back on the portions of food I eat and maybe even exercise a little this summer. This beer belly I got is embarassing
03-29-2004, 01:45 AM
thats the reason I got 180hp. my pasengers alway tell me I shouldlose weight to carry bigger people but I told them. Iam the owner you want to fly build one.
I am slowly working it out any way.
Question the rotro hawk blades that is mentioned in the thread. are they the new version or old version. I have flow the old one not the new one nor Ernie's blades. But I have 2 guys here that said they leike the new version (I think they are fleck) But thenm I have a guy with an aircomand and he likes the Dragonwind.
I just want to understand more the Naca Foil issues as explained by CB on a precios dicusion plus I am been ask for advice and want to give a honest opinion.
03-29-2004, 06:11 AM
They were the older style Rotorhawks. They flew pretty good but not the smoothest in the world.
03-29-2004, 07:16 AM
I got my cooling problems solved. I may not need new DW, but I sure would like some anyway. I't amazing how cool you can run a motor with the nose down.
04-04-2004, 07:15 PM
I bought a used set of 23 DWs from Docjon. Cant wait to flyem.
04-05-2004, 10:57 AM
Good job I hope you enjoy them. 23' should work out great for you. Just remember to take it slow the first time you fly them they won't take air as fast as you Brock blades. I don't know what prerotator you have but get them above 150 rpm before you even taxi. They will start below that, but better save than sorry. Good Luck Fly Safe.
04-13-2004, 10:39 AM
I got my cooling problems solved. I may not need new DW, but I sure would like some anyway. I't amazing how cool you can run a motor with the nose down.
How did you cool that thing?
Was it just trim?
04-13-2004, 10:57 AM
That statement was premature. I'm still having cooling problems and I am currently working them out. The engine is getting way hot because I am way in the throotle to stay airborn. My tach only goes out to 3500 and it is pegged on takeoff. This if ok, but cruise should be around 3000-3100 rpm. If I'm less than 3400rpm I decending.
I have installed a larger oil cooler and changed blades to DW 23 footers. Hopeing the more efficient smaller blades won't work the engine so hard. I want to see how this works before I try AVgas. If Avgas in combination to what I have already done doesn't work, I have to send the motor back to the Great Plains and have them enlarge it to a 2130 or 2180cc.
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