Fuel flow meter?

[Adam H]

Has anyone tried to use one of these on their gyro? http://www.navman.com/marine/products/fuel/fuel2100/index.html I'm thinking about putting one on a new gyro and would like to hear anyone's experience. Info such as accuracy and general performance would be greatly appreciated.

[Butch S.]

yes they are sh1t & made for boats
no realy,there sh1t, you dont want one
Butch

[Timchick]

What about the ones made for aircraft sold in the aircraft parts catalogs?

[Chopper Reid]

I have used one for a few years now and have found it to be really good without any problems.

[barnstorm2]

Brian,

What make and model?

[Chopper Reid]

Tim, mine is a Navman and I'm not sure they make any other models. I will check and see if there is any model number when I go out into the shed.

[barnstorm2]

Dang.

The discription says for carbed engine. Will this be a problem with my EFI Subaru EJ-22?

[Adam H]

Thanks for the responses! Chopper, is the meter accurate in your experience? This company says they make meters for fuel injected engines. http://www.engines1.com/floscan_7000_series.html I would think they would work for a Süb.

[barnstorm2]

Navman FUEL 3100 is not round and is more expensive but looks like it will work with any engine and has good range and economy functions. You can download the manual in .pdf form.

thanks adam, I will check it out.

[mceagle]

When talking EFI engines, the preferred method (for accuracy) of reading fuel flow is a guage that reads the injector pulse duration directly from the computer. Once simply calibrated, it is 100% accurate. I do not know whether any of the readily available fuel flow meters use this method. The standard Navman appears to be quite accurate but the fuel flow transducer appears to have a limited life in most applications.
A fuel flow meter can be used with EFI but a seperate return bypass or surge tank must be used. This is explained elsewhere in this forum.

[OzyRuss]

[QUOTE=Butch S.]yes they are sh1t & made for boats
no realy,there sh1t, you dont want one
Butch

Had one for 6 yrs,100% accurate,buy another one tomorrow..........

[Aussie_Paul]

Me to Russ.

Aussie Paul. :)

[Sonnyj]

Why do you need a fuel flow meter?

Just wandering. I use flow meters on a regular basis in my work, but have never seen one permanetly mounted.

Sonny

[Screw]

Screw-In

How much are they? I'm planning to get one to help manage fuel. The way I'll have my tanks, makes a fuel gauge very difficult.

Screw-Out

[Adam H]

I’m glad to hear that this fuel flow gauge works and is accurate. I want to install one in my next gyro for two reasons, first, so that on a cross country I can find the very best cruise rpm for fuel conservation. Second, I will be using a seat tank and auxiliary air command pods. I think this would be a very good way to keep track of my total fuel usage and fuel remaining.

[Dean_Dolph]

Apparently no one remembers this thread!

http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4118

There have been others but I did a search and found this one real quick. David Homes uses a different one, as you can see, but it is more expensive. It also sounds like it has some interesting and useful capabilities. I know he has made several posts where he praises it.

[PW_Plack]

They're useful in some ways, but most fuel flow meter manufacturers recommend NOT using the device as your primary or only indicator of fuel remaining. Some sort of measurement of what's actually in the tank(s) is important.

I've seen some pretty creative and cheap ways to do this, including mirrors to allow viewing sight tubes from the pilot's position.

After all, you wouldn't use only a VSI to determine altitude if you couldn't see the ground!

[rehler]

I have had one for about 50 hours of use and I like it a lot. Mine has been accurate and I have not had any problems with it.

I replaced the seat tank SkySports system which could not accurately measure the odd shaped seat tank.

[skyguynca]

I have a navman also, used it on fuel injection and on carb. You just set the sampling rate different in the menu for fuel injection. They work great and would buy another one in a second if I needed it.

[barnstorm2]

A fuel flow meter can be used with EFI but a seperate return bypass or surge tank must be used. This is explained elsewhere in this forum.

I found mention but no schematic. Can someone post a schematic of the tanks, venting, tubing and such? Perhaps photos?

[barnstorm2]

This seems helpful.

http://toyotaperformance.com/surge_tank.htm

I would like to see what other gyro builders have used.

[barnstorm2]

Oooh. This one is purdy.

Any NZ forum member willing to call and get a price?? :)

http://www.dminternational.co.nz/oilair.phtml

[barnstorm2]

When talking EFI engines, the preferred method (for accuracy) of reading fuel flow is a guage that reads the injector pulse duration directly from the computer.

Tim,

Is there a bolt-on third-party solution available to do this? It sounds better and easyer then the sensor-surge-tank setup if there is a 'plug-n-play' solution.

[Butch S.]

If the transducer gets jamed by something it almost stops all fuel flow so cruise power isnt possable & if it needs programing and constant adjustment its to hard I would find a simple fuel gauge much better and KISS idea keep it simple stupid
Butch

[mceagle]

Tim,
Is there a bolt-on third-party solution available to do this? It sounds better and easyer then the sensor-surge-tank setup if there is a 'plug-n-play' solution.G'day Tim, I have only seen this system used on manufactured cars. I am not aware of such a system available on the aftermarket in Australia yet. Maybe in the States? It is actually far simpler than using a fuel flow transducer, and more reliable.

[Aussie_Paul]

If the transducer gets jamed by something it almost stops all fuel flow so cruise power isnt possable & if it needs programing and constant adjustment its to hard I would find a simple fuel gauge much better and KISS idea keep it simple stupid
Butch

........I had the transducer seize up on the first one I got 8 years ago and it never impeded the fuel flow. The transducer was replaced under warranty. Nothing should jam it if you have the correct strainer and or filter system.

Aussie Paul. :)

[banaari]

Oooh. This one is purdy.

Any NZ forum member willing to call and get a price?? :)

http://www.dminternational.co.nz/oilair.phtml


NZ$245 including GST, which *shouldn't* apply to overseas orders,
therefore NZ$217 exclusive; exchange rate's about 0.7, so:

~US$152

[banaari]

As for the Navman fuel-flow units; every second microlight I've seen in the last few months seems to have had one in the panel; the owners seem to like 'em.

MGL Avionics (http://www.mglavionics.co.za) produce something in the Stratomaster Single/Maxi range which will optionally take a level sensor as well.

[skyguynca]

[QUOTE=banaari]As for the Navman fuel-flow units; every second microlight I've seen in the last few months seems to have had one in the panel; the owners seem to like 'em.QUOTE]


They work really well. The only thing is for fuel injection you change the sampling time because it is not a carb that fills the float bowl and stops, then fills the float bowl and stops.....fuel injection is constant and because of fuel return you have to make sure you only put it after the return regulator not before it or it will register too much fuel used.

[Canadian Rhino]

That sounds like it would be just measuring whats headed back to the tank instead of whats going into the engine!

[skyguynca]

nope, you put it in the line that just goes to the fuel injectors which in some systems is after the return (that is to keep constant pressure on the rail no matter the flow) but others have the regulator at the end of the fuel rail, inwhich case you can not use the Navman, because it would measure total fuel pumped not used.

[mceagle]

How to set up the EFI system with a fuel flow meter

[barnstorm2]

NZ$245 including GST, which *shouldn't* apply to overseas orders,
therefore NZ$217 exclusive; exchange rate's about 0.7, so:

~US$152

Sweet!

Thank you!

I think that one is going to be a done deal next paycheck! :D

[barnstorm2]

How to set up the EFI system with a fuel flow meter

Tim,
Some of the setups show a 'low pressure' fuel pump that appaseems to fill the surge tank.

What keeps this pump from putting too much gas in the surge tank and sending fuel up the breather?

Sorry for the dumb question....

Thank you for the diagram.

I don't see a 'low pressure' pump in this system, can the low pressure pumps be done without safely?

I really like the MGL Avionics banaari posted.
I need to finish reading about the sensor. I did not see anystatements about use on EFI yet.

[barnstorm2]

http://www.performancecenter.com/autoparts/holley/fuel_pump_service_parts__and__accessories/hol12-923.html

Neat Holley, but I think I like the Dytech better.

[barnstorm2]

As for the Navman fuel-flow units; every second microlight I've seen in the last few months seems to have had one in the panel; the owners seem to like 'em.

MGL Avionics (http://www.mglavionics.co.za) produce something in the Stratomaster Single/Maxi range which will optionally take a level sensor as well.

The MGL Single looks great and the price is outstanding .

http://www.mglavionics.co.za/pands.html

This manual for the sender does not seem to indicate EFI

[Adam H]

Wow! I really like a couple of things I see at mglavionics! Where have people ordered from in the US? and where can I find some prices?

[Chopper Reid]

In my opinion, the fuel flow meter is the second most important instrument you can have as its far more accurate in sensing the load on the motor, much more so than the tacho. It is very accurate after calibration and even if it does fail or jam [the transducer] enough fuel still gets through to keep the engine running normally.

When I know the tank is getting low, its the fuel computer I check for remaining fuel and it hasnt let me down !!

Anyone running an EFI motor should seriously think about a fuel pressure gauge as well as this unit will tell you if anything is amiss with filters etc.

[banaari]

Where have people ordered from in the US? and where can I find some prices?

Check out this thread for an entire panel of the stuff, and links to suppliers:
http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6305

[Aussie_Paul]

In my opinion, the fuel flow meter is the second most important instrument you can have as its far more accurate in sensing the load on the motor, much more so than the tacho. It is very accurate after calibration and even if it does fail or jam [the transducer] enough fuel still gets through to keep the engine running normally.

When I know the tank is getting low, its the fuel computer I check for remaining fuel and it hasnt let me down !!

Anyone running an EFI motor should seriously think about a fuel pressure gauge as well as this unit will tell you if anything is amiss with filters etc.

A very true post Brian, what then is your most important instrument?

Aussie Paul. :)

[Chopper Reid]

Paul, you of all people to ask that question :( just kidding mate....most important instrument and the cheapest...the yaw string !!!!

What instrument or piece of equipment would you have at number 1 ?

[Aussie_Paul]

Attitude indicator and/or or drift string Brian, depending on whether open frame or enclosed and looking more through the eyes of a student. Hard to beat the correct attitude and string in the middle!!! aircraft attitude, that is!!!

I thought I have better qualify "attitude"!!!!!!

When I got the Raf I had to look at the drift string!!! With an open face helmet in an open frame machine my face always told me if we were trimmed!!!!

Aussie Paul. :)

[mceagle]

Some of the setups show a 'low pressure' fuel pump that appaseems to fill the surge tank.
What keeps this pump from putting too much gas in the surge tank and sending fuel up the breather?If the top of the anti surge tank is below the bottom of the main tank, no low pressure pump is required, as long as the fuel can flow into the anti-surge tank at a greater volume than the engine can use at full power.
Where the main tank cannot flow the volume or the anti-surge tank is above the bottom of the main tank, then a low pressure pump is required. In such cases the "breather" between the top of the anti-surge tank and the top of the main tank is plugged and drilled out to a pinhole to allow escape of air or vapour.

[barnstorm2]

Now that makes sense. Thanks Tim!