Kestrel tip jet Helicopter

[Sapientino]

has anyone ever built/flown Kestrel tip jet helicopter (with propane pressure jet)?
Do you have any news? do you knows if it has colletive control?do you think is it safe?

Thanks for your answer
Sapientino

[Brian Jackson]

I would stay far away from that "design." A lot of red flags go up when a "distributor" has to doctor their photos just to make a product look like something. I've been burned by Vortech years ago... they're pretty much in the business of selling vaporware to the masses whom don't know any better.

[Sita]

It's been on Vortech's site for a long time but I never saw one picture of one flying...which means nothing of course.
I would not spend any money on those Vortech engines (Gluhareff's I assume).
Depending on what you want,I would put my money (if I had any to spare :) ) on the peroxide propulsion system of Eric Bengtsson. (do a google search on Peroxide Propulsion).
Perhaps not perfect yet but very promising if you decide to take the tip jet power route.

Not much of a help though I guess :o

Cheers Cita

[Sapientino]

[QUOTE=Cita]........I would put my money (if I had any to spare :) ) on the peroxide propulsion system of Eric Bengtsson. (do a google search on Peroxide Propulsion).......[end Quote]

peroxide is very promising and interesting, but big problem is the fuel! it's dangerous and very difficult to find, while propane is much easier to use and handle.....

Anyway I've read that the designer of these tip jet was a genius, he had contracts from USAF, and NASA for these tip jet projects, and he had worked in Saturn5 project. (thats why I had some hope on the project even if it was sold by vortech that I 've heard it has bad reputation).

Anyway also Fairy Rotordyne had hot tip jet for taking off, so the idea is probably to evolve

[Sita]

Hello Sapientino,

The gluhareff engine as used on the Kestrel helicopter is now available as a much better working product than the Vortech crap.
Mr.Gluhareff indeed was a genious but the problem was that he never wanted other people to know how exactly his engines where working hence the poor commercial succes.
I believe that the problem is solved now by some Canadian guys (I think :) ) and they offer a good working engine.

I agree that peroxide has a bad reputation,mainly because problems the German's during WWII with the Me 163 and their missiles had, but I would not say that it is an unsafe fuel if threated with the right care.
For years propane had the same myth regarding safety and it would be unsafe for use in cars etc...
Mr.Bengtsson can deliver peroxide without any problem I think.
The Fairey Rotodyne used a different type of tip jet and was way ahead of his time.The only reason the British abbandoned the project was that the Rotodyne was too promissing and would radically change the industrial rotorcraft scenery which Sykorsky,among others, was not too keen on.
Cancelling the Rotodyne project is beyond any doubt the biggest mistake ever made in rotorcraft history.

[Ludde]

[QUOTE=Cita]........I would put my money (if I had any to spare :) ) on the peroxide propulsion system of Eric Bengtsson. (do a google search on Peroxide Propulsion).......[end Quote]

peroxide is very promising and interesting, but big problem is the fuel! it's dangerous and very difficult to find, while propane is much easier to use and handle.....

Anyway I've read that the designer of these tip jet was a genius, he had contracts from USAF, and NASA for these tip jet projects, and he had worked in Saturn5 project. (thats why I had some hope on the project even if it was sold by vortech that I 've heard it has bad reputation).

Anyway also Fairy Rotordyne had hot tip jet for taking off, so the idea is probably to evolve
I am i member of the swedish rotor flight klubb ( the same klubb as erik)
at one of our fly ins he tryed to hover with that system and crashed.
But after a visit at the hospital he was alright.
Be careful!

[Sita]

Was this chrash the result from a system failure or pilot error Ludde?

[Sapientino]

Hello Sapientino,

...........I believe that the problem is solved now by some Canadian guys (I think :) ) and they offer a good working engine..........

do you have any web address?

[Sita]

www.glc-inc.ca

[Ludde]

Was this chrash the result from a system failure or pilot error Ludde?
I am not sure, i think i was both.
Because the rotor has fixed autortational pitch it needs very hay rpm,so i think
it was very sensitive, any way the rotorblades hit the groun so it crashed.
But im not very familary whit the system, so it might work whit some modifictions.
good luck :)

[Ludde]

here is the addres.
www.peroxidepropulsion.com

[PeroxidePropuls]

Hi,
Take a look on the thread "Tip rocket pre-rotation", under the head line "engines" on this forum. It was a while ago so you need to scroll down to page 5. There you can follow the development and testing of my system. There are many interesting comments from the members of this group.
I have sold 4 systems up to now, but no one more than the prototype, installed on the crashed glider, has been flying yet. They are all still under construction, as far as I know.

Erik Bengtsson
Peroxide Propulsion
www.peroxidepropulsion.com

[quadrirotor]

Perox, you tried your system with only compressed air: what would have been the pressure and debit of air to have almost a take off, of your single gyro?

[PeroxidePropuls]

André,
I tested the system with compressed nitrogen as one step in the comissioning of the system. It was surprisingly powerful, but not any near enough for a vertical take-off.
I did not follow up on this test.
I know you have been talking a lot about a cold jet system. Why don´t you try it? I guess it is more relaxing to be an armchair engineer and just comment on other peoples experimental work?
Erik

[quadrirotor]

Money?... place?... tools?... talents?
As i said before, Peroxide; all have been done, today, the talent is the abilities to determine among the masses of informations what worked, works and will work!...not to waste your time with useless possibilities!...
I know that for most of the people, someone, who knows what to do but can't do it, seems less intelligent than someone who flies (or try to), even with a dustbin!...
My main purpose on this forum is to give ideas to whom can catch them!...I have nothing to sell!... ;)

[PeroxidePropuls]

OK André,
No offence. We need guys like yourself, comming up with good ideas , -as well as guys trying to be practical, I think.
Erik

[Sita]

The best way of avoiding mistakes is do notting at all!!!
trying to fly with a "dustbin" can be foolish but only if you not succeed.

People with idea's are a bless for the community but are thin spread,those with only negative comments are a pain in the neck but far outnumber the first catagory!

Cheers Cita