Norms forum

[Aussie_Paul]

I have not been able to log on to Norms forum for a couple of days.

Anyone shed any light on this please?

Aussie Paul.

[CLS447]

Paul,

I tried a few times this morning and can't get on either. I don't know what's going on though.


Chris

[Heron]

I was there yestarday but it is funny, I get redirected to a search page all the time.
Heron

[GyroRon]

Lately it has not been too interesting over there anyway.

We got Doug and most of the guys with the brains to come on over. If we could just get Stubborn ole Chuck Beaty on here ;) Norms forum could disappear and we wouldn't lose a thing.

[gyromike]

What we would lose is years of valuable information that we could search through. I tried to logon last night and this morning to do a search on a couple of topics, but I can't get on either.

I may be mistaken, but I think Norm's problems have been that he has been running his own servers from home, and the cost of building/maintaining these plus the connection fees, are more than he can afford.

It is cheaper to just find a hosting company to rent space from, and pay according to the amount of space and bandwidth you use.

Maybe Todd can shed some light on what this Forum is currently costing him per month for comparison.

I had considered setting up another Forum after hearing of Norm's troubles, but Todd beat me to the punch, and has done a great job of it too.

[GyroRon]

7 bucks a month Mike. And Todd has declined accepting any donations from us.

[gyromike]

That's very inexpensive. I would have thought that it would have been higher, but not by much.

If Norm's forum does go down the tubes, hopefully someone could get the archives and set it up on another server, if for nothing else to be able to search through.

I have lots of old threads saved on my computer, but there's always something I want to search for, and there's lots of info for new folks to sift through.

Also, Ernies site went down with rotorcraft.com, and any others that he was hosting.

I seem to recall Norm or someone else saying that it was costing $400 a month to keep the whole setup going.

[Rotornut]

Ron, Every forum has some days not so Interesting and others more than enough. I miss Rotcraft Conference MYself. MJ

[GyroRon]

Heck with Chuck Irby, John Stevens and the whole Georgia gang, me and the rest of us.... There isn't hardly a day that goes by without something interesting going on here.

Not happy to see Norms forum go down, But this is a forum for us too so it isn't like we will have no where to go. I like the format here MUCH better.

[Chuck Irby]

There's no dout in my mind about it. We have the best forum. It's friendlier. We all try to help each other. That's what it's all about. I love you guys. It's like we are family, and family helps each other. When something good happens, like when John soloed, we were all quite excited for him. When something bad happens, like when Ron's plane got messed up, we all joined in to prop him up. Hell, we are closer than my blood family is.

[Chuck Irby]

Hey guys, I got some pictures of me showing off today. Where should I post them, if at all?

[GyroRon]

Not in this thread! Start a new thread in the Dominator section or in the general discussion section.

[Chuck Irby]

Thanx Ron, I'll do it under General Discussion.

[ToddP]

I certainly hope the archives of information from Norm's forum are not lost. When he was first talking about shutting down, I asked him to place the archives on CD and I'd make them available for sale here. It would possibly be a way for him to recoup some of his costs. He never replied.

His forum provided me the resources to get started in gyros and I'll always be thankful for that.

[Heron]

Ron: I am pretty sure that your words came out wrong and your heart did not mean anything bad to Norm's Forum.
Afterall it was there that we all met long ago!!
This Forum came about in good time and I always wonder if we could keep up with both and some guys (and our favorite gal) out of loyalty did not want to cross over.
I dont know if Norm's Forum is out for good, I hope not.
Every channel open for those in search of gyro info and friendship is a good thing.
I have seen some decaing over the last two years and it is all around GyroDom, some nasty stuff going on, the PRA loosing its objectivity and about to become a clique.
I am gratefull to Norm for years of wonderfull moments and enlightment.
Big Thanks from a former NEWBIE!
Heron

[GyroRon]

I didn't mean for it to be taken bad at all Heron. I appreciate Norms forum very much, it has been in the past - and if it comes back I am sure it will keep being - a big help to me.

I like it here much better is my opinion, don't know why can't explain it. Mj I think feels the same way for Norms forum maybe she can explain it.....

To me it is not who owns the forum or which one I am on, it is the people I can stay in touch with and communicate with that matters to me. Even though we all use both forums, this one feels warmer to me, more like I am among friends. Norms forum used to feel the same way to me, but with all the catfights and bickering and so on, it feels more like a tool to me than a place I want to hang out.

I really do hope it comes back up, but if it doesn't I just hope that the smart guys will come on over to start building some archives here.

If it is a money issue then maybe Norm could email Todd back and get some pointers on how to set up a forum for a lot less money. It is hard to collect donations when a forum can be hosted for pennies a day.

[barnstorm2]

Norms forum is great. The archives are a 'national gyro treasure'.

It is good to have options and diversity. I spend most of my time here but I have always kept up in Norms forum. Lots of lurkers on that forum, a great deal of text to read when researching.

I do prefer the format and software of this forum and 'tempo' I guess you would call it.

Todd, in times like this your efforts and forthought really pay off for all of us.

[Chuck Irby]

Heron, your words are "right on".

I knew that Ron wasn't badmouthing, and I know that you all know that I wasn't either.

I feel probably like Tim does in that this forum just feels better, it's more comfortable, it's friendlier. Like Tim said, the "tempo" just feels good.

It's like we are family, and in a big way, we are.

Thank you Todd, for your insight and willingness to give of yourself as you have in putting together and maintaining such a great meeting place for us.

[Aussie_Paul]

I hope that we don't lose Norms forum. The two forums compliment each other nicely.

Thanks Todd.

Aussie Paul.

[Rotornut]

Norm is Family also. And he is a Sunstate Life Member and his Forum will be sorely missed. I hope it comes back up, but most of all I hope Norm is doing OK. In the years I have Printed out lots of Info from his forum and enjoyed it everyday. MJ:)

[Dean_Dolph]

Some random thoughts and opinions. There are those who will say that all my thoughts are random! Shame on you, give the old man some respect!

My personal feeling is that Norm's 'Old' (not the Old, Old conference!) conference had the best features. He made a vague reference to going with different software for the last conference because of security concerns. The format of that last conference is similar to this one. I do know that there was considerable hacking going on with the 'Old' Conference. But still that 'Old' conference format and features were the best.

In any case, Norm's conference(s) supplied the technical expertise and discussions that this conference has only rarely provided because the majority of community recognized experts don't visit here. That is not Todd's fault, of course, and we can all be thankful to him that we still have a place to convene. I personally hope Norm's conference revives but if it doesn't then I hope the 'experts' will start visiting here. I don't believe, as someone else stated, that the 'experts' stayed in Norm's conference particularly out of loyalty, (although that isn't a bad thing!) but did so because there was no need to divide their time between two forums. I can only imagine how much email these guys have to deal with on top of their participation on the internet. It has to take up a major amount of time to try and accommodate the community.

It is my personal observation that this forum is populated primarily by relatively new enthusiasts. And when I say that I mean those that have little or no gyro flying , building experience or other exposure to rotorcraft. That is not a put down since we all have to start somewhere. However, I suspect that there are many people that are active on this forum have been reluctant to jump into the fray on Norm.s conference(s).

That is unfortunate because there have been questions asked here that in my personal and unexpert opinion didn't get the correct, proper or complete answer. Granted, there have, and are, times that the discussions on Rotorcract.Com got a little personal and brutal which certainly intimidates the timid. But when you need the best info available, in order to stay healthy, you go where the experts are. The old timers (not in age necessarily!) such as Paul Bruty and Ken J. can relate. Some of it was unavoidable since there are those whose attention you can't get any other way and then there were times when the info provider just got frustrated that his explanation(s) were not being understood. Some experts have patience and some don't. They range from Chuck Beaty and Doug Riley, with the patience of Job, to the infamous Craig Wall. I think Craig got fed up with the 'idiots' (Pogo says I are one!) and took up internet residence elsewhere. Our loss.

[Heron]

Hey Ron . . I know you a little and you are allright, just that sometimes the choice of words to not favor you, you shoulda stayed in school a littel longer, heheheh hahahahah!
Just kidding!! ;D
Now . . .if the guys (in case Norm's fold for good) do not come here I will consider that discrimination and wage war against them . . .(oh I can see them trembilng)
I hope evryone crosses over and we can go back and forth trading experiences.
It seems that lately the Old Forum is more to the technical side and this Forum carries more emotions and human experiences. More colorful here and you have more latitude for bad jokes.
Different folks . . .different strokes!
It is all good!
Heron

[Chuck Irby]

Hey Dean,

Well stated, and a valid point.

Where are you located Dean?

Oh, and by the way, you ain't old.

[GyroRon]

Dean good post.

one comment, if you see something posted here that you feel isn't right, don't wait for Chuck Beaty to come over here and fix it, why not jump in and throw your two cents into the discussion.... This forum is in more need of the experts than Norms forum at times. It doesn't take any longer for these experts to monitor and reply to threads they feel they could expertly answer, than it takes to go through all the threads on just the one forum. I go to both and it isn't that much harder to be active on both places.

[PTKay]

Is this the forum you talk about:

http://www.rotorcraft.com/forums2/index.cfm

I can't get through since few days.
Maybe a wrong site ?

PTKay

[Dean_Dolph]

You are right Chuck. My personal philosophy is there is no future in getting old so I'm not going too! But my body is starting to let me down! I'm spending my retirement in Katy, TX which is 30 miles West of Houston on I-10.

And Ron, I don't hesitate to provide advice locally (some will tell you I'm too free with it!) but despite all my years of involvement with gyros I really don't have anything to offer technically except to occasionally offer some historical perspectives.

Because they don't have any thing to reference too, the newbie will see the advisor as being an expert. We are all experts to a point. I see an expert as someone that appears to know more than I do. And that doesn't take much! This means almost every newbie will see everyone here as an expert unless he/she is blessed with a good dose of cynicism.

A person has to be sure, when offering advice/opinions to new people, that we throw in a disclaimer if in our heart we know that we are not genuinely knowledgeable. If we are wrong then we could get someone hurt or worse.

[Chuck Irby]

Dean,

You just made another excellent point in your last two paragraphs, one we should bear in mind.

If you ever find yourself headed toward South Mississippi, let me know and maybe we can plan to at least have a meal together.

In case you didn't look at my profile, we're the same age.

[Fiesty]

Dean Dolph:

My son-in-law lives in Katy. He flies a Piper PA-19(L-18C)
His name-Ron Robertson Phone: 693-6308.

Randy Brooks only 83 years

[Chuck Irby]

Hello Randy,

We really appreciate your post and letting us know more about you and the connection between you and Dean.

This is what it's all about. We are fortunate to have people with your experience here on this forum with us.

Thanks again

[PW_Plack]

If the more experienced guys who were exclusively using Norm's forum ever do make it over here, they may discover what I did...the "Search New" function here means I can view this forum in about one-fifth the time Norm's was taking. I was down to about once a week over there, and stopped trying to post the last time I lost my entire message due to a time-out.

Norm's forum was a goldmine of archived info, but much of that info exists other places. Perhaps someone with free time will compile some of the links to make it available here.

It's a sad comment, but Norm's forum has been a MUCH better source of gyroplane info for newcomers than the PRA website. I don't understand why the PRA, with the financial support of something like 3,700 dues-paying members, couldn't step up and archive the content on Norm's forum. That's the kind of effort I'd expect from the world's leading association of gyroplane enthusiasts, especially one which operates tax-exempt on the premise it provides education.

[Udi]

It's a sad comment, but Norm's forum has been a MUCH better source of gyroplane info for newcomers than the PRA website. I don't understand why the PRA, with the financial support of something like 3,700 dues-paying members, couldn't step up and archive the content on Norm's forum. That's the kind of effort I'd expect from the world's leading association of gyroplane enthusiasts, especially one which operates tax-exempt on the premise it provides education.


Two simple reasons: liability and technical controversy. Sad, but true.

Udi

[barnstorm2]

Has anyone heard from Norm on the situation?

[Whirlydog]

Just to put in a few words, I have enjoyed both forums. but I have to agree that this one is more frendly. On this forum I have never been treated as if I was an idiot for asking questions, or told "we discussed this a year or two ago, go do a search before continuing this discussion."

I sincerly hope we will allways remain frendly and ever helpfull. We will always have newbies on the forum, may we always treat them with as much respect as we do those with more knowledge than ourselves!!!

Keep this forum frendly and as upbeat as it is and we will see the numbers grow. Have a nice day ;D and may we continue to enjoy and live our dreams ::)

Shawn Rowland

[Chuck Irby]

Shawn, I totally agree. I never felt at home on the other site.

[Mike Jackson]

Hi All,

I also agree this forum is more friendly! I personally got tired of trying to have good faith discussions elsewhere and found myself intimidated and getting angry like a child - I guess I was one of those "idiots". I just left.

I find it very refreshing how the "newbies" are treated. Guys here are not to busy to go back to Genesis with them. While this, or any forum, cannot be a stand alone training media, you are not afraid to point the new guys in the right directions for expertisse - either expert personalities or documents. Good on you!

Regarding expert personalities - Todd, why not email/call some of these well respected experts and invite them personally to join in on the forum. Maybe you have, but I think you might find some "converts".

Cheers,

Mike

[GyroRon]

Shawn we did have a hard time keeping it friendly in the wind threads ;D Glad it taught something in the end. I love it here. All hail Todd! all hail Todd.

If in 5 minutes Norms forum reappears, why go back? What are the chances it will still be up a week later? I appreciate Norm hosting us a forum, it has been a major plus for all of us. But he has too much going on in his personal life to keep the forum going. I say let someone transfer the posts to a disc or transfer them here, sell them so Norm can make a few bucks and let us show this forum our support.

[jucie]

I remember Chuck Beaty said he would hang here if Norm's forum eventually went down.

(Mr. Beaty, we hope you don't wait too long.
I think other knowledgeable guys will follow you.)

[LGoodhind]

Lost in reverie Ron suggested...

>I say let someone transfer the posts to a disc or transfer them here, sell them so Norm can make a few bucks

If you want something from Norm why not ask him for it? If he agrees it would be trivial to dump the posts from both of the old conferences into this one.

The idea of hijacking material out of Norm's forum and cross-posting or selling it without permission as a way of "helping Norm out" isn't very nice; anybody out there like the thought of people helping you out by selling off your stuff without talking with you?

[jucie]

LGoodhind:The idea of hijacking material out of Norm's forum and cross-posting or selling it without permission as a way of "helping Norm out" isn't very nice;

Norm deserves respect for the huge effort to support the rotorcraft forum along these years.

But (only an absurd hypotesis, as Norm is a great guy) if the forum administrator doesn't want to share that contents with the community (that created a lot of content)? Would it be fair? I think it wouldn't.

LGoodhind: anybody out there like the thought of people helping you out by selling off your stuff without talking with you?

Sorry, Larry, I can't be with you at this one. Details are subtle here: we are talking about public information, not private physical things. When I share information with other guy I don't miss it, it's duplicated. That's an ancient human tradition.

The rotorcraft forum content is by no means private information; it's been formed by thousands of contributors around the world. One should not deny it, and therefore that content should be handled accordingly.

[quadrirotor]

Jucie, i agree and support!.

[Harry_S.]

AAhhhh. The flamers cometh.

[ToddP]

Obviously some people haven't read this whole thread.

Back in October when Norm first talked about closing down his forum, I was not willing to pay the $5,000 Norm was asking for the forum and his equipment.

I started this forum because I felt this community of people was too valuable to lose.

I sent Norm an e-mail thanking him for his years of service to the gyro community. I also asked that if his forum closed down, would he like to archive the information to CD, then make it available for sale on this forum. I offered that he could use the proceeds to help recoup some of expenses.

He never replied to my e-mail.

There was never any mention of Hi-Jacking material or anyone selling it on here for their personal gain.

Lets please get the facts straight before we start ranting.

Todd

[LGoodhind]

>There was never any mention of Hi-Jacking material or anyone selling it on here for their personal gain. Lets please get the facts straight before we start ranting.

Ranting? Flaming? Wow- I thought this was where the kinder and gentler rotorheads hung out! ;)

I was directly quoting Ron who suggested "let someone transfer the posts to a disc or transfer them here, sell them so Norm can make a few bucks." I never said anything about personal gain and don't know where you got that from. My comment was meant to relate my understanding of who the owner of a couple hundred megabytes of text and image content data is.

I can't go grab a quote since the site is offline but I'm fairly certain that content disposition was called out in the terms of use and as participants we agreed to whatever those conditions were by posting on the conference.

Like I said the first time- selling or cross-posting stuff on Norm's behalf without his consent doesn't sound very nice and that is what it appeared to me that Ron was suggesting. Maybe Ron could clarify his comments.

[ToddP]

My apologies Larry, I didn't mean to jump. I just wanted to make my position real clear. I've never had any intention on stealing information from Norm's forum, but I do wish we could make it available, it is a very valuable archive of information.

My personal feeling on the archives is this. I will only speak for myself, but I don't feel like the information on the forum belongs to me. I've only contributed a small fraction of the information here. Most of the truly valuable stuff comes from other contributors and is really the property of the membership. In my opinion, the only thing I "own" is the forum, I don't "own" the information. In the event that sometime in the future this forum also has to close, I would hope to make all the material available to any member that wants it. But like I said, I can only speak for myself.

Ok, back to happy gyro talk ;D

[GyroRon]

Larry you took what I said out of context. I know what I said, but what I meant was for Someone - Anyone, Norm is fine but maybe he is too busy to do it so then maybe one of his Admins like Dave Dewinter or Jamie Bodie, or perhaps Al Hammer or anyone it doesn't really matter - To transfer all the info to a disc to sell FOR NORM.

Larry you ought to know by now that I speak my mind openly on the forums. If my intent was to hijack Norms forum and sell bottleg copies I would have just said that.

I do somewhat agree with Juice, that Norm gave us the place to be, but it was us who made the posts. I think it would be somewhat questionable WHO owns the right to that info.

I know that several people have a lot of Norms forum downloaded for their own use already. Are you saying that those people should kick out some bucks to Norm for downloading the stuff they already got?

Larry this disappoints me that you would not ask more questions first. I thought we were Buds ;)

[Rotornut]

Got my own libary due to printing all that was posted that I was interested in. Catfish Bitched at me for it, wasting ink etc, but now look. Got my own Libary!

MJ :)

[ToddP]

Don't you worry MJ,

We all know who's Boss :)

[Heron]

By the powers of GraySkull!!
I am about to have a heart attack Larry!!!
My blood pressure is 187 by 117 and I am blowing my top.
Are you faking or something just to have more fun?
Ron . . .can I tell him to go pound salt?
I guess not . . .
Larry we all love you and you are welcome to post any thing you want, even your delusions, we understand!!
By Golly!
Heron (tilting away)

[GyroRon]

Heron don't pick on him, He just mis read my post. It was easy enough to do. It is hard to communicate on a key board, especially for me with my limited computer back ground.

[LGoodhind]

Heron- I can't understand about 3/4's of your post. You have a tendency to believe that the person reading what you say can fill in your blanks- I regret that I don't have that capacity. I have no idea what I said that upset you, why I should pound sand/salt/whatever, why you think I'd be faking, or why you think I'm delusional. Maybe you could clarify your comments but I doubt you will- anytime I've ever asked you to in the past all I get is a "hahaha-hehehe-hohoho winkwink ... oh, I gotta go!" response. If you think I'm frustrating imagine what it's like on this end of the ethernet cable.

I'll say it again- it would not be nice to attempt to repurpose or redirect content from another website without speaking to the person who's taken responsibility for maintaining it unless there is a clear policy that you can. Formal terms and conditions would change not nice into illegal. The intellectual property position Jucie brought out is frequently used to justify stealing software, MP3's, video, and so on. I'm sticking with "not nice" and avoiding that legalistic quagmire because we don't have the T's&C's to refer to.

Ron- Of course we're pals; I harass all my pals which is why I actually feel comfortable speaking my mind with the few who stick around. The rest can go off and pound sodium metal into chlorinated water and try to make salt. =)

I'd like to know why you think I took your comments out of context. Your post started with the other forum coming back online with your response being "why go back?" If the forum came back online the only assumption I'd be prepared to make would be that Norm wanted it back online. Since you're a proponent for people talking with each other to avoid misconceptions I'm wondering just how much of this great advise you've attempted to share with Norm directly.

I know that several people have a lot of Norms forum downloaded for their own use already. Are you saying that those people should kick out some bucks to Norm for downloading the stuff they already got?

Of course. All of the participants of the conference should have been sending in a love offering now and then. Didn't you? ;D

[Chuck Roberg]

I have to agree with Larry about not being able to understand Heron's post's. I admit, I have the same problem understanding them. So I usually just skip over them. ???

I don't mean to pick on Heron's writing skills. I do pick up from his posts he is trying to keep things lighthearted and interject some comedy where he feels it is needed. It just is hard for me to understand what he means. ::)

So Heron please write your posts so some one like me ::) is able to understand them. I think you have a right to be heard here and what you say is important. I want to be able to understand what you say. :) :) :)

[jucie]

Hi, Larry. Thank you for responding.

The intellectual property position Jucie brought out is frequently used to justify stealing software, MP3's, video, and so on.

Excuse me, but I think there is a substantial diference.

Let's play, Larry: imagine you spent your valuable time writing alone an entire book, and I want that information. Maybe you give me a copy, like a gift, maybe not: it's your choice. I think it's fair for me to pay for your time, effort and materials for the book. That's right. All concur.

Now, please imagine a different story: we both wrote a book. I sent you my texts, so that you keep all parts together. A month later I ask for the book and you say: "No, I won't send it to you. That is my intellectual property and it's part of my assets." What a nice guy, uh?

Before deciding what is fair and what isn't, we must understand that the ethical choices and assumptions are different from people to people and if I don't respect other people positions I can't expect respect from them.

Don't expect large acceptance if Norm eventually keep that content as his "intellectual asset". (Norm, I am not saying you will do that. It's just an hypothetical game).

Larry, if I wrote something hard to understand, please excuse me, my English is a pain in the neck and to argue in English is a real chalenge for me. Here in Brazil we speak Portuguese. That's why my messages are just a few.

For that matter, Heron is a playfull guy and like to joke everytime, ok? That's a typical brazilian way of talking.

Thank you very much for dabating.

[LGoodhind]

If I sounded ill-tempered or contemptious of Heron that wasn't my intent at all- Heron seems like a very pleasant fellow and I'd enjoy interacting with him someday rather than talking past each other.

Jucie- You're right. It is two different things and that's why I said I was sticking with the not nice comment. On the other hand intellectual property rights can be transfered and (my opinion) if you freely agree to do so then you've done so and loose your ability to influence future publishing choices. Totally moot point with no T's&C's. I'm not talking about fair or right but just about what people can freely agree to. The ability to make choices that you may later regret is what gives us sex, smoking, drinking, bungie jumping, New York cheesecake, and people building experimental aircraft in their garages. =)

[GyroRon]

Larry I guess maybe I took what you said out of context??? I don't know. what I do know was I have never intentionally made a statement that I think someone Besides Norms should copy all the info on Norms forum and sell discs or copys of the info - Other than Norm himself - What I meant be using the word someone instead of Norm was just that, If Norm is too busy to do it himself, maybe he could get SOMEONE to do it for him.

Me personally I don't care if they vanish into thin air. As long as there are people around I can email, call , read their books, or post a question to on A forum, then I would not use the archives. I never have before and probably never will. BUT..... I made my comments about them because I see there is value to them and it would be a shame to loose them if Norm is out of this for good.

Now onto the next issue. you quoted me saying this - "why go back?" - Well there is a few reasons I say that, but the main reason is I personally know the owner of this forum Todd. I know he is committed to keeping this forum up and running 24/7. In the last few months there has been too many times Norms forum has been off line. And many times he has said he is going to pull the plug for good. I just think that this is the better, more dependable gyroplane - rotor craft Forum and it would be better to Start adding to these archives where I know they will be around than to go back to Norms forum where the posts may be lost for good at the next plug pulling. I hope this makes sence....

You have also mentioned Talking to Norm. Well no I haven't. Like I said I have no personal interest in the archives, so I am not going to bother him over that. I just really have no reason to bother the man. I would love for it to come back up, but if it doesn't It won't bother me too much.

You also made a kinda joke about donations to Norm. Well to tell the truth, No I have never sent him any money. Call me a cheapskate, call me a tightwad, look at me anyway you please, but that is the truth. But hosting a forum doesn't need to cost someone a small fortune either. Todd pays 7 bucks a month to have us this forum. I am sure Norms uses more internet space and costs more, but Todd did some numbers up on it and figured it would be less than twice what he pays the 7 bucks for, so it couldn't cost more than 14 bucks from what I have been told.

[GyroRon]

And yes I skip a lot of Herons posts too. Can't make sence out of a lot of them... sorry Heron :'(

[Heron]

Larry my man . . .
We presented many options and wishes to Norm (I did a few) and when some people felt that it was all but lost they went in action and we got this nwe Forum.
I even offered my forum like a spring board for all to keep in touch till things got sorted out.
Now, I miss NOrm very much, he did not posted a whole lot and I barely know him, met in person, liked him instantly, and I wish he comes here to post and make a fool of himself every now and then.
I even proposed we buy Norm's forum for the sum spoken (5 g's) and give it back to him so we could continue on.
SElfish? you bet I am, I want this forums to go on forever.
Did Norm do it for us? I think he did and if so we are the legit owners of all that stuff minus his hardware.
Would I take anything without permission? Hardly . . .
Thanks Juciê for you defense, love you guy!!
If you guys do not understand sometimes it is allright, I do not understand myself most of the time.
I opened my heart in the other Forum in dire times and took lots of FLAK, started to turn ironic, sarcastic.
If you have been paying attention in the last three yeaars I have presented many suggestions and different insights in lots of subjects.
It can be done, it will be done.
Heron
Oh forgot one thing! Larry how do you like the Monarch now that is finished?

[LGoodhind]

>Larry how do you like the Monarch now that is finished?

At the risk of triggering your hypertension (go see a doc- try yoga- quit smoking- take your little pink diuretic pill) I'd have to take time to form an opinion for me to have one; my knowledge of butterflies is limited to the fact that they have little knobbly things on the end of their antennae rather than being fuzzy like a moth's.

[Aussie_Paul]

The longer we go without having access to Norms most valuable forum, the more I realise that we have to do something to retrieve all that info.

I know Todd has tried, but is there anyone out there who can help to retrieve that info?

I am not having a go at Norm, just missing the search function to all that info, some that goes back many years.

Any suggestions? :confused:

Aussie Paul.

[barnstorm2]

Paul,

If you can find someone with the data I would be willing to host a read-only searchable version.

[Heron]

A leader . . .my Kingdom for a leader!!!
Does anyone have the scoop on NOrm himself?
Hey Norm, come by and say hello! WE missyou . . .
Heron

[le-wardy]

I've got to admit, Norm's stonewalled silence is quite unnerving. The question remains of that, does Norm know that we all miss him and his forum ??

[Udi]

I am perplexed with the way Norm's forums have disappeared, without anyone knowing what happened with him. Does anyone know Norm personally, or was he just an Internet guy with no personal contacts? Was Norm related to any gyroplane activity, other than setting up and maintaining his web sites? How come people and web sites just disappear like that?

In hindsight, I was very fortunate to have gotten on the old forums almost a year before they went down. I learned most of my gyroplane knowledge from the wealth of information on these forums, knowledge that is not available anywhere else.

If anyone who reads this post knows Norm personally, would you please beg Norm to allow us access to his old databases? All he has to do is to give a copy of the databases to Todd or any of the other web- literate people on this forum and we will make sure the info is posted for everyone to see.

Thank you.

Udi

[Heron]

Udi
Sometimes I feel like going up to Orlando and do a fly-by to check on Norm, I saw him twice at BD and he is a very likable guy. We need to get the scoop and bring him back or maybe just leave him alone if this is what he wants.
I have been missing M.J. and Richard's posts, all is quiet in SoFla . . .
HEY GUYS . . .WUAZAPPP!!!
We should have bought his set up and kept it going!
Heron

[Aussie_Paul]

I just hope that Norm was successful with the custody of his daughter. That would be one hellova problem to have. If you read this Norm, please know that I think of you often.

Aussie Paul.

[Dean_Dolph]

Udi, Norm is the nicest guy you would ever want to meet but unfortunately was going through an apparently nasty divorce where child custody became the priority in his life. He was very passionate about gyros, especially on the training side.

If I have my facts straight, he is a retired naval flight officer and is a professor at a Florida university in Orlando where the last I heard he was involved with developing distributed learning for the Navy and others.

He shared his domestic problems with us thru his conference to a limited extent because apparently his wife's lawyers were monitoring the conference and he had to be careful what he said. He kept the conference going as long as possible but it looks like a vindictive soon to be ex-wife finally shut him down. I've tried to contact him several times by phone and email without success. All of us that know him and have had dealings with him have to be concerned by his silence. Dave DeWinter and Jamie Bodie helped him administer the conference so one of them should have had the last and latest contact.

[automan1223]

Hands full.

My hope is that Norm has just gone quiet because he has too much to handle. However given his previously mentioned state of affairs I hope he is not in jail or has fled the country with his daughter. The "justice" system in our country is terribly broken and it is not uncommon for a child to dissappear with a parent involved in a custody battle. Sometimes it is easier to take what you got and run on a long vacation. Esp if his wife was as crazy as I imagined. I do hope Norm is ok and not dead or laying in a hospital somewhere. While I would hope that one day soon we hear from him or get a letter of his situation, I feel that we may never hear from him again. We will just have to recruit and rebuild the gyro conference from the ground up again. Lets just hope that the older gentlemen have the kindness to help out with our "redundant" questions to fill our heads with correct info. There are just sooo many people that operate on "ignorance" today its a hopeless cause in my view.

Sincerely
Jonathan Weis
Oriental NC.

I am guessing that someone could call the university and find out about him.

[Hognose]

Gents

A partial archive of Norm's web site exists. I suspect some of you already know where it is. However, it does not have any of the forum stuff (sad face). Anything that was password protected is probably not available. It does have stuff like the dominator and Barnett websites. I don't think Barnett, for instance, got back on the web since Norm went paws up, so it's useful info, even if it is not the most useful info.

Assuming that America's native predatory animal, pursuicus ambulancio torticus, also reads this forum, contact me back channel and if I know you, I will tell you how to get there. If I don't know you I may, alas, give you misleading information and waste your time -- time better spent stealing from your clients' escrow. (1 in 9 lawyers is before the bar disciplinary board every year, mostly for that. And those are only the ones that get caught).

cheers

-=K=-

[Heron]

Guys . . .what happened to faith?
I am not ready to give up yet . . .
There is a rainbow somewhere and light at the end of every tunnel!
C'mon guys . . .
Heron

[Doug Riley]

Hognose, your statistic about lawyer escrow accounts may be accurate, but, as with most one-liners, it's a bit misleading even so. If a client gives you a check to deposit, and if you deposit it and conduct a transaction for the client using the money, and thereafter the client's check bounces, YOU as the keeper of the escrow account are hauled up for censure, license suspension or worse -- even if you cover the bouncer's check out of your own pocket. The theory is that you have other clients' money in the account, and you "stole" THAT money when you disbursed against the (non-existent) funds represented by the bad check.

The "torticus" guys also don't need escrow accounts much. They don't usually hold client money because they work on commission. The thefts from escrow are done by business and estate-planning "lawyers" who prey on naive, confused and/or elderly folks. Bogus investment advisers and money managers do the same thing to the same demographic group.

The new Sport Pilot aircraft certification system will likely rely almost entirely on the presence of tort lawyers to (in theory) keep the manufacturers honest. The manufacturers are to "self-certify" compliance with the standards. We hope all the self-certifications will be truthful. A dishonest manufacturer (know any?), however, need only hide all his assets to make the "torticus" threat a hollow one.

[PW_Plack]

Have you followed the case brought against Parker Hanafin by the Carnahan heirs? Given the behavior of juries these days, the honest manufacturers probably better hide away a few rainy-day bucks, too.

[Edddyjoe]

I just wish Norm all the best and may God be with him to help him with whatever he is going through. I spent many eveings reading post after post on his site. Norm take care.
Edddyjoe

[automan1223]

who is parker hanafin ?

how does he relate to aviation ?

[gyromike]

Jonathan,

Parker Hannafin is an aerospace manufacturer. They make vacuum pumps among other things.


http://www.avweb.com/newswire/10_04a/briefs/186511-1.html

[B8MFlorida]

There was a ton of great info on his forum(old and new) it would be great if we can capture it on a disk somehow?
I wish him well!
John

[ToddP]

I have e-mailed Norm a couple times asking him to make the archives available on CD. He has not responded.