I give up!!!!!!!!

[Aussie_Paul]

Oh boy, there must be something wrong with me!!!!!!!I know, I know, tell you something that you don't know.

Well I guess that we all know that I can be a little arrogant and know allish at time on the Oz thread, but I can't seem to get the CLT with effective h/stab message across to some of the Oz blokes.

Please come and give me a hand. Maybe they will listen to some outsiders.

The Oz forum site is www.asra.org.au in the forums section.

I don't k now if you guys in the US have the same problem as can happen down under, and that is "pull the tall poppies down".

I don't want to be anything other than a hard working gyroplane instructor, gyroplane promoter, and the supplier of a safe and reasonably priced 2 p[lace 4 stroke powered cross country gyroplane that is extremely stable.

I know that I am vocal about what I do, BUT I have done the hard yards to prove the concepts that you guys helped to understand.

Anyway enough feeling sorry for myself, but if you have the time to help me out here please do. If I am at fault please feel free to chastise me.

Aussie Paul.

[Greg Mitchell]

Paul,

Be honest. You cop it because you always slip that 'little bit of history' into it and only ever name yourself and one or two others, whilst giving yourself a BIG pat on the back. I have seen post after post, where you continually let the readers know 'how good you are'. Come on Mate, Birdy told you no probs with CLT, and it will be interesting to see you/Hybid, matched up against some of our cattle mustering gyros in the Desert Air, or Bad Air as some of them call it.

Many in Australia are on line with all the current debates, nothing is set in concrete yet, and even Greg Grimminger's theories with respect to neg angle incidence HS's or should I say a HS that presents a Neg angle of attack in S & L with an above CofG thrustline, is the only way to achieve airspeeed, power and G load Stability, has not been proved definitely at this point. Some of the other "CLT" type craft may prove otherwise. I don't know do you?

Just talk and debate the issues Paul and stop crying fowl, just because a few of your fellow Aussies put it on you. LOL!!

regards

Mitch

[Aussie_Paul]

Tyanks Mitch, points noted. I will seriously take advice on the area. I really don't like fighting, it is not in my nature. I appreciate your honesty.

Had a great day today, flew 25 mins solo in hybrid running the new engine in some more, and then flew with a few mates to quite a large airshow at Tyab, the other side on Melbourne. A lot of the WW11 flyable stuff down there.

We saw all of the 7 airworthy P-51 Mustangs in Oz, in the air at the same time. That has never happened before.

We flew down in a mates Cessna 206, about an hour. The weather was perfect with 3 to 7 kts of breeze, the clouds covering the sun for most of the day. No sunburn and no windburn.

Compared to the Northern hemisphere airshows, todays was not huge but we all enjoyed ouselves.

Went to start the 206 to come home, and the starter motor had an internal problem and we ended up having to hand prop almost 300 hp with a 3 blade prop!!!!

Anyway it was great to take a day off gyros and lower myself to ride in a fixed wing!!!! LOL.

Aussie Paul.

[PTKay]

I repeat myself, but I take the opportunity to post something here, not highjacking "for sale" posts....

I am contemplating it from a safe distance with amusement and have lots of fun on Saturday evenings and Sunday mornings.

Come on, people, let Paul continue his crusade,
it cetainly helps him to fight his problems...

I am a complete outsider here, so maybe that's why I can allow myself such comment....


PTKay

[Chuck Irby]

Paul (PTKay),

Maybe I am wrong, but I evidently didn't take Aussie Paul the same way you did. Or, perhaps I didn't take you as you meant for it to be taken.

It seems to me that you all have your hearts in the proper place, and maybe we sometimes have some difficulty in our communication with each other.

Please read my signature line again. It's not just meant to be cute. That's the way it is, especially with the written word.

[PTKay]

Chuck,

I respect you, Chuck, Paul and everybody, but there are limits.

I would like to give the example of AAI. Their "bon mot" is
"Stability". But they do not preach it, they DO it.

If somebody belives, the stable machine is what is necessary, then let them just DO it. As I understand Paul is also a manufacturer ??

Let him DO it...
(Unfotunalely I am afraid that part of his preaching is also marketing...)

To the "bullcatcher" gyros and the Australian disscussions:

The short anwser is: Cessna 152 is a perfect stable machine,
used for training all around the world (my training included).

But you also have kit crafts build for "dogfight" games.
And nobody with common sense will go for a "dogfight" in C 152.

I hope you follow and agree...

So, there ARE "horses for courses".

(I do not even mention here intentionally unstable military machines
designed for better maneuverbility.)

So. Live and let live...

Let Paul build his Firebird and sell it to recreational pilots,
let AAI bulid and sell SparrowHawk and sell it as above, but also to
Police forces around the world, who should concentrate on
their tasks on the ground in a stable machine and not on
keeping the craft fly straight and in pitch.

But let also Birdy and Co. fly their near-aerobatic trics in rough
desert air in the machines of their choice chasing the cows...

This is my point.

And I hope I wrote what I meant....

PTKay

[Aussie_Paul]

I read that quite often Chuck as it is very true. My posts are usually quite long as I try not to have ambiguity or something that can be taken the wrong way compared to how I meant it. I have a long ways to go to become successful at that.

Aussie Paul.

[Chuck Irby]

Paul K,

I hear what you're saying and I believe your heart's in the right place. I also believe Paul B.'s is also, and I have a lot of respect for you both.

I believe we are mature enough here in this wonderful forum that we can disagree, but not get our feelings hurt, and realize that we are limited in our communication, due to it all being written.

What do you guys think of the pics my son took of me yesterday?

[PTKay]

Chuck,

they are great, I envy you for your hobby...

Hope to be able to catch up soon...

PTKay

[Mike Hook]

Heya all

Just wanted to say that we all are from different parts of the county and of the world and everyone has different customs and ways of communicating. What one finds offensive to others may be the common way of expression. Soooooo lets try to all understand each other and not get our feathers all ruffled and make harsh comments about others here. You must realize what a asset you have here. No were else can you come and share thoughts and experences about gryo's as you do here. There is a chat page http://www.rotaryforum.com/chat/flashchat.php that is great. I have had to chance to talk to serveral of the guys there and even been The GREATAWAD lol. You cang get a better feel of a persons personallity there, so if you get the chance pop in and see if anyone is there or set times to vist. I would love to hear in chat about OZ and Brasil and Poland .

Later all

Mike Hook

[PTKay]

Mike, great idea, but the samall problem is:

it is now 10 am your place,
5 pm my place and
2 am in Australia.

So what time you suggest for a chat ?

Chat at 8 pm Pacific is 5 am here....

I am afraid, we will have to stick to the forum for some time.....

But you are right, this is almost a miracle, we can argue over such distances !

So, let's argue, but a nice way.

PTKay

[PTKay]

Hi everybody,

maybe to expalain to you what I am talkin about,
I can give you an example of my motorboat.

It's 12 m long, 7 tons, flat with no keel, with water jet propulsion. There is no rudder,
steering is with the jet stream only. No rudder, no keel = no directional stability !!!

At low speed it needs permanent steering inputs to keep a straight line. All my freinds
are laughing at me, permanently moving the wheel, when they can just set the rudder
and have their drink. But I do all this moves already subconciously and the boat goes straight.
(Some call it training and experience...)

But now the bottom line.

MANOEUVRABILITY.
(maneuverability US ?)

With no keel, no rudder (preventing sideways movements) I can turn this
boat on a dime - with no bug thruster !!!

Turning radius = boat length, for 12 m, 7 tons boat !!!

And I like it, on small lakes and rivers...

I would never trade it for a deep V speedboat !
It's maybe good for open sea.

So Aussy Birdy probably also can turn his gyro over the bull's nose...
And he likes it...

So, "horses for courses".

PTKay

[Heron]

G'day Aussie Mates!
You have the solution right there, just can't see it, can you?
Go visit Paul more often and he will not feel so lonely and unappreciated and maybe he does note need a shrink after all . . .
heheheheheheheheh ;D
Go Aussie Paul . . .tell them as it is!!!!
Heron

[pwendell]

PTkay,

One of the great things about Gyros is that there need be no compromise between stability and manuverability. A Gyro with a stable airframe can be just as manuverable as one with an unstable airframe--and much easier to control as well. Remember, we're flying the rotor, not the airframe. A stable airframe prevents unintended cyclic inputs from being transmitted to the rotor, but it does nothing to limit, diminsh, or slow down the pilot's intended cyclic inputs.

[Chuck Irby]

A great reply Peter. Wish I had thought to say that.

[Aussie_Paul]

Me to Chuck!!!!!! ???

Nicely said Peter. I wish that I was a little more educated.

Aussie Paul.

P.s. Very happy with my factory new 120 hp ej-20 sohc and Sub4 gearbox.

[Chuck_Ellsworth]

Hi Paul:

I hope all is going well with you.

Today I loaded my RAF 2000...(what I have left of it)
on a trailer and tomorrow I will take it to the airport and put it in the hangar and slowly re build it.

It has sat in my garage for over ten years, a constant reminder of what a big mistake I made when I bought it from RAF, are those pri.ks still in business?

Anyhow I seldom post here anymore.

I find it depressing that nothing really seems to change, the boat and gyro stability thing posted by PTkay is an example of why it is better for me to just lurk.

Anyhow I thought you would like to know that I finally moved the RAF to the hangar and will probably work on it and eventually get it flying.

Over the years you have earned my respect Paul so all the best.

Chuck Ellsworth

[Greg Mitchell]

Gentlemen,

There are a lot of gyro people in OZ that have a great deal of respect for Paul Bruty and this is not about BASHING PAUL. Paul got straight back on the Aussie forum and stirred it up again after his cry for help! I reckon this whole thread is out of hand now.

Take a look at the crap that was throwen at Larry Neal under the Monarch thread, over what seems to me to be a highly personal issue. Tim was advised to call Larry and see if it could be sorted. But Tim was obviously so p*ssed off that he kept comming back at Larry with more and more. Look at the emotive language that was used and the attempt to rubbish Larry's ability to stay focused and service any and all products and client base. Now go on and tell me what a wonderfull little family gathering it can be, when a person can villify someone like that on a public thread.

Paul gives as good as he gets. Yes he is one of the Aussie pioneers, yes he has come on line and is looking to reduce high thrustlines and employ adequate HS's. Yes, his Hybrid fly's great, been in it and told him, and others just that. Paul is not the only one in Australian Gyro Sport Flying with Half A Brain and he didn't get to where he is today by having a closed mind. He is a funny bloke with a mischeivious sense of humor and a force to be reckoned with when it comes down to knowledge and hours in the air.

I don't like all this GOOD GUY, BAD GUY stuff, it's crap.

Some of you close knit Buddies should get Tim and Larry communicating again and prove to me just what a great gyro fraternity you have going there, and here for that matter.

Regards

Mitch

[PTKay]

Thanks everybody, especially Peter,

as you probably understand, I am trying to learn as much as possible from this forum before doing any mistakes myself.

So maybe my questions are sometimes silly or out of sense.

But thank you anyway for your patience and all the explainations.
The most important thing is to give clear, well documented anwsers
instead of repeating around and around the same phrases.

And the second most important thing is, that I am learning
more and more every day.

PTKay

[pwendell]

PTKay,

We are ALL learning everyday....It just goes with the territory ;D

[Heron]

Chuck E. can we consider ourselves orfans of your grace?
Get you ass back in here stat!!!
We miss you . . .or go pound some salt, ok?
I am going to Rio finally!!!
see you
Heron

[Fiesty]

???Hello Chuch E. Long time no see. Hope you are hear to stay as we need the experience instead of wannabees!!

Both you and Paul Buty have been in this long enough to know that some are here only to aggavate instead of help the forum.

Randy Brooks