HI! (again)

[Mike V]

Just joined after a couple of years AWOL. ;)

I used to belong to the forum that was maybe, before this one?
I really don't know what happened or who took over. A brief explanation would be great!

Anyway, I'm a former Army Aviator, flew Chinooks in VN and was building a Gyro Bee. Well, I got the parts, anyway. I sold them on the forum due to bad health. Anyway, John Landry was just crow hopping and had crunched a rotor. I heard he's up and flying again! Great stuff.

My health is good now, so naturally, I've got the itch to build a rotorcraft again. Before I start, however, I'd like to hear from the Bee owners and others who will say:

"Here's what I'd do different this time."

I'm open to any craft, and can build, but would rather fly. I'm not up to date on the new sport regs, either. I hold a real old Commercial Helicopter rating, but maybe couldn't pass the physical. Will someone be so kind as to bring me up to speed....gently?

Anyway, any advice is appreciated........e-mails are welcome, as are web site links. Thanks again!

Mike

[WHY]

Hi Mike

If you have been away from gyros for a while, before you spend a dime on anything new or used get totally educated on the facts of centerlline thrust and the horizontal stabilizer and welcome back.

Tony

[Mike V]

Hi Mike

If you have been away from gyros for a while, before you spend a dime on anything new or used get totally educated on the facts of centerlline thrust and the horizontal stabilizer and welcome back.

Tony

Thanks for the advice, Tony. I've sorta kept up with the controversy, especially regarding the model in question. Interesting stuff. I guess I'd like your opinion of whether gyros in general are inherently unsafe.........Naturally, I couldn't afford to build a real helicopter, nor would I want to fly one for sport. My other option is to get a Kolb fixed wing, but I really like the bugs in my teeth :D

Having lived hard for 55 years, I don't mind a bit of risk, and I can't think of a better way to go than to "hover" in a 30 knot breeze, while all the skirts watch in awe. However, I do like to know the risks, and which ones I want to take. What's your opinion?? And thanks for the welcome!

Mike

[bartc150]

In my opinion if you want to fly a complete machine already trimmed out and a little gas in it go with the Dominator. If you want to build from plans, or sub assemblies go with either the Dominator or Bee. If you want to build a kit go with either the Air Command or Monarch/Butterfly.

All of these machines are Center Line Thrust or very near to it and are very stable in flight.

From what I've been hearing about the medical deal, If you know you won't pass the FAA medical, don't have it done. You could still fly under the sport pilot rule with just your driver's license. But if you fail a medical exam, be prepared to never fly again, unless you have a true ultralight.

Again just my opinion on machine selection. I have only about 3 hrs on my new Dominator, so I'm no expert by any means. But I have been researching gyros for the last few years and feel that I made the right decision.

[WHY]

Hi Mike

Just got back to your post, sorry for the delay. Personally I would make the following comments about the safety of the autogyro, properly designed, it is the safest machine in the air. However this requires some explanation, first training is a must, they do fly somewhat different than any other aircraft, secondly a good understanding of some of the terms that are used that are not quite correct in their application, the first one being PIO meaning pilot induced oscillation. This is really not correct, most of the time this oscillation is induced from a outside source such as a wind gust on an unstable design and it is then aggraveted by the pilot, so it should be PAO instead of PIO. The term PIO leads the new pilot to think that he is the one responsible for the oscillation and if he is extra careful then it wont happen, this is a set up for a accident. The next term that is being used incorrectly (I think ) is CTL (centerline thrust) when the term should be centerline stability. This is because when you are looking at stability you are looking at centerline mass, centerlline weight, centerline drag, and centerline thrust, all of these are important to flight stability, so look at all of these factors when you hear the term centerline thrust (CLT). The horizontal stabilizer of course is self explanatory. I would invite anyone else to add to these comments for Mike's benefit, nice to see someone take the right approach to gyro's

Tony

[Allantat]

Hey Mike...your just down 99 from me here in Fresno. If Bksfld is anything like Fresno (heats a given) then finding gyro folks will be a challenge. I,m currently building a Monarch Butterfly gyro. Bout 65% complete. Lets hook up some time.

[Udi]

Centerline thrust (CLT) is an important feature in ANY aircraft, not only gyros. CLT is only one of the factors affecting gyro stability. The two most important factors are 1. correct balance of moments about the CG in flight and, 2. a large horizontal stabilizer located as far back as possible for damping.

Both CLT and a stab are helping achieve #1, but a gyro can be designed with a HTL or LTL and still be balanced. So don't hang too much weight on CLT, it's only one parameter in a larger equation.

Mike - the 'bee is a very nice gyro. Today you can buy an easy to build kit from StarBee Gyros http://www.starbeegyros.com The bee is a bit HTL, but using a Watson tail with a downloaded stab helps balance the moments, which results in a very safe and easy to fly gyro.

If you don't want to build, you can buy a turnkey Dominator from RFD. This will cost a little more than the bee, but the Dominator is also a very safe and easy to fly gyro. The bee can be made ultralight, the Dom is not.

Udi

[Mike V]

Thanks a bunch for all the replies! In fact, I am leaning towards the Dom as it appears to be a much more polished A/C.

Did someone say the Bee was "HTL"?

Mmmmmm. Hard to land. High thrust load. Hard to look-at. :D

Nice info, and I've gotten back up to speed on the PIO stuff, I think. I think my biggest problem is finding like minded folks and not trying to re-invent the wheel.

I PM Allan, and maybe can take care of that, too!

Again, thanks for all the great replies.

Mike

[banaari]

Hehe... the Bee's only a little bit HTL... a better term would Near-CLT... to within two inches or less, depending on exact configuration.

Even that doesn't tell the whole story, because the 50HP recommended maximum engine supplies a hell of a lot less thrust (and overturning moment) than say, the Subaru monsters RAF persist in parking up near the rotorhead. :D

[Mike V]

Hehe... the Bee's only a little bit HTL... a better term would Near-CLT... to within two inches or less, depending on exact configuration.

Even that doesn't tell the whole story, because the 50HP recommended maximum engine supplies a hell of a lot less thrust (and overturning moment) than say, the Subaru monsters RAF persist in parking up near the rotorhead. :D

Yeah, I was just kidding a bit. I sure like the look of your Bee, and have gone to your website many times. Say, Allan said he was building a Monarch and I can't find a site out there! Can someone help with a link? I have no idea what it is..

I'd sure like to find a some gyro heads within driving/flying/beaming distance :eek:

Mike

[bartc150]

You'll find info on the Monarch here (http://www.thebutterflyllc.com/monarch.htm)

[banaari]

I'd sure like to find a some gyro heads within driving/flying/beaming distance :eek:
Mike

Welll... I'm within one planetary diameter... :D

[Allantat]

Mike..Just sent you private e-mail with info.