OH MAMA!.......Smoooooooth!

[KenSandyEggo]

Gosh I'm P.O.-ed. I've been typing like a madman for the last 20 minutes and then I accidently hit some key with one of my fingers and I completely exit the Forum and am unable to go back to where I was. :mad: Thought I'd start a new thread as the other one was getting pretty long.

Here I go again. For the last few days, I've been doing runway flights trying to get my rigging correct. She basically was ballooning up quickly, leaning to the right and not accelerating with full power and full forward stick. Forgetting about the trim-wheels didn't help either. I got her to fly level by cranking in left roll-trim, but still couldn't build up any speed after lift-off. My stick position was also too far forward. She'd get to about 40 m.p.h. indicated and stay there behind the power-curve, so I knew I had to shorten the control rods some. To make a long story short, I finally got some "slim-line" AN nuts for almost a buck apiece, and this gave me enough range to get them where I wanted them. I left a little left-tilt in for torque compensation. I'm assuming that the specs on the SC head are not identical to those on the RAF head. Tightening in the 6 rod-ends brought my stick right back to where it originally was. I probably should have invested in a good angle-level. Mine kind of sticks and I "thought" I had the correct head-tilt angles dialed in.

I took off this morning intending to do a 5,000 ft. runway flight. I cranked her up and was at 200 rrpm as I turned onto the runway. I eased in the throttle in case there was any roll tendency and waited for her to easily lift off, which she did. I then gave her the gas and before I knew it, I was starting to climb and approaching 90 m.p.h.! I had over-cranked the left-roll trim, so I cranked her a little to the right to fly level. I told the tower I would do a pattern. I thought the ride was smooth when I installed the old SC blades. Throw in the SC rotor head and it's unbelieveable! I did nothing to any adjustments. Just took them out of the box and installed them.

Jim Vanek has nailed it. Stick-shake and cabin-hop are a thing of the past with his blades, hub-bar and rotor-head. I am impressed! Broke....but impressed. I was so busy enjoying the flight, I didn't even notice what the rotor rpm was. I'll take her up again in a day or 2 and collect some figures. Something tells me she is going to be a lot faster.

Now I have a sale in progress and I'm wondering if I'm doing the right thing. :( Yikes! The money will be wired to my account on the 25th. She has never flown so well or looked so sharp. Oh well, I committed to the sale and I committed to the J-2 owner to buy the J-2 with a $2,000 deposit. I better like that sled. I'm sure I will. Who I sold mine to is up to the buyer if he wants to post it. The J-2 I'm buying is Ron Herron's. I had to do a real sales job on him to part with it. Him and Chris really weren't too crazy about selling it. Ron said it was like selling one of your kids. I'm suddenly realizing what he meant by that. Selling a favorite certificated plane is hard enough, but when you've put in as much as I have into mine.......gulp.

[barnstorm2]

Contratulations on your re-build, sounds like she is a sweet ship again.

I would love to have a J2 or A&S18a. I am envious.

[scott heger]

Ken, I think your nuts...... also ....I don't think you should sell the gyro now that it is all dialed in. You may have one of the nicest flying two place gyros in the world. Why part with that? I hear J-2's don't like the summmer heat, and standby for the parts bills. And worst of all, you can't "adjust"(remove/add/modify) much on it.

Reminds me of my Chenowith Corvair dunebuggy (that are made in El Cajon) . It was the fastest and troublefree dunebuggy I ever owned. It would pop your ears it climbed sand dunes so fast , all the time in a wheelie!! The day I sold it, I knew it was a mistake, and 15 years later, I still kick myself for doing it.

Just rethink it all again....

Scott Heger, Laguna Niguel, Ca N86SH

[asmuzsr]

Yeah Ken I'm still regreting the day I sold the BunnyHugger.

[KenSandyEggo]

I have enough calluses on my ass that another kick or two won't even be noticeable. I will say one thing. I am getting tired of lifting my leg up over the ledge past the stick and squeezing it alongside the keel climbing in. Getting out is even worse. My legs aren't as nimble as before. I'll be kicking myself if I don't ever get to own and fly a J2. I've wanted one for over 30 years. At my age, it's understandable to be going from a Miata to a nice Oldsmobile sedan. Here's a pic of the one I'm getting. Now tell me it's not a sweetheart. I think I'll be very happy with it and it'll be more conducive as to people being willing to get in and go for a ride. This is something I enjoy doing immensely. It looks more "aircrafty."

In fact, one of the things I plan to do with her is to airport hop on weekends and park her outside airport restaurants and at fly-ins with a small sign offering rides for a fee. In other words, I want to "Barnstorm." All those free rides are getting expensive. I know a couple guys that did that with an RAF many years ago and turned a very decent buck and had fun doing it. If this isn't a "Babe-Magnet," I don't know what is. Look. There's a babe in it already. (Just kidding, Demetra). I also promise not to become a "Gyro-Snob." With the under-seat storage, do you guys realize how many more grenades and ammo I can carry on my next mission to Karjakistan?

Which brings up a question that I haven't been able to get a positive answer for. Can I simply sell rides with a commercial ticket, or must I get a CFI rating so I can call the rides "Introductory Flight Lessons?" One CFI thinks I just need a commercial add-on as long as I don't do charter work. Anyone know for sure?

Scott, as I previously mentioned, mine comes with a virtual truckload of spare parts, including an extra set of blades and a brand-new rotor-head assembly. There are also belts, cables, tires, fairings and other "stuff." That's one of the reasons I went for this deal......or rather pushed for it.

[asmuzsr]

You'll have to have 100hour inspections done along with the annual. There may be other requirements but you commercial should be all you need and of course currency requirements.
I have to say I've always liked the J2's looks.

[KenSandyEggo]

But then, it'll also be a business/tax deduction. Maybe Jim Mayfield will pop in here and answer. He should know for certain if anyone does. Tony......what the hell you doing up at 3:30 in the morning!!?? :eek:

[KenSandyEggo]

"Ken, I think your nuts......"

What about them?

[asmuzsr]

Sunday to Thursday I work midnights.

[david holmes]

[QUOTE=asmuzsr]You'll have to have 100hour inspections done along with the annual. QUOTE]

WHY?

[Red Sky]

...At my age, it's understandable to be going from a Miata to a nice Oldsmobile sedan. Here's a pic of the one I'm getting. ...
You'll love it and it makes perfect sense to me. I think she's one sweet ride. :cool:

[Rotornut]

Nice Ken, J2 is a nice machine. Wish you the Best. Now we can get more cross country stories and pics. Enjoy. MJ :)

[asmuzsr]

Answer to David's question, Taking people for rides and accepting money, he will be a commercial operator. I don't remember all that goes in to it but to cover himself he'll need to check it out. I'd hate to see someone ask the wrong questions and he get into trouble. Then he's be needing your services. When you start taking money for rides, as we all know it's a whole new ball game.
It's nice for him I think, though, he could have another business on the side and this time be doing some thing he really loves. He just needs to check the reg's before he does that's all.

[KenSandyEggo]

I'll certainly do that, Tony. I know an aircraft used commercially has to get 100 hour inspections, but I don't know if what I plan to do qualifies as true "commercial" usage. 100 hours per year is quite a bit anyway.

[C. Beaty]

The designer of the J-2, D K Jovanovich, was yet another of aviation’s colorful characters.

Jovanovich and a team of ex-Piasecki engineers set up Helicopter Engineering Research Corp. in Philadelphia around 1946 and designed a series of midget flying bananas (tandem rotor helicopters).

McCulloch built a couple but there was no market.

The design rights of one banana were sold to Hughes who lifted one of the rotor systems and developed the 269 helicopter.

Rights to the J-2 were first sold to Bill Lear (Learjet) with the stipulation that if it had not entered production by a certain time, ownership, along with a bag of money would revert to Jovanovich; which it did.

At some time before McCulloch purchased the J-2 rights, Jovanovich approached Bensen with a licensing proposal. Bensen didn’t have the resources to manufacture a certificated aircraft even if he had wanted to.

[asmuzsr]

Ken check under part 91, I think that would say if you are or not.

[KenSandyEggo]

Classic Rotor Museum nearby in Ramona has one of these sitting in a corner. It hasn't been restored yet and I don't know if they have plans to do so.

[KenSandyEggo]

Look. You can plainly see that the J-2 was definitely designed for more....er....mature people like me. You can just flop your ass right down into it through that giant-sized door. Can anyone guess where this photo was taken; in which country?



Answer: Submitted by Rose Strong, Cooranbong New Jersey Australia. She named the photo "Uncle's Toy."

[barnstorm2]

Don't let em get you down Ken. I would LOVE to have a J2.

My favorate bike is not my 1999 BMW R1100S sport tour bike but rather my 1958 BMW R50S.

Sure the R50S is missing a lot of new tech but it is worth it, the R50S rocks.

[KenSandyEggo]

I'm looking forward to new adventures with the J-2. There's almost always seller's remorse to some degree. I have a lot of time, money and heart invested, but I'm sure I'll do the same with the J-2.

[Harry_S.]

Ken:

Read Part 119.1 and 121. Also, your annual will take care of everything less than 100 hrs.


Cheers :)

[enewbold]

Here's a pic of the one I'm getting. Now tell me it's not a sweetheart. I think I'll be very happy with it and it'll be more conducive as to people being willing to get in and go for a ride. This is something I enjoy doing immensely. It looks more "aircrafty."

Man, it's absolutely beautiful! Well done!

If you or anyone else hears of another J2 up for sale, PLEASE let me know!

Have a great time flying it.

Ed in Columbus, OH

[animal]

Way to go ken, from that pic I see it has the 3 blade prop,if I recall right the version with the 3 blade prop was called the Super J-2.
very nice machine. So when do you get to go pick it up?
Tim H.

[ScottTinnesand]

Ken,

Let me know when you plan to start using your J2 for money making. I'd be happy to share what I know with you. As a 135 pilot myself, I can tell you that there are a myriad of issues to take care of before you begin. Also, take my word for it, it's not that easy to just look up the info in the FARs. Even the rules on local sight seeing flights can be complicated.

Many don't really learn the ins-and-outs of what a commercial license allows you to do when you get the license. Early on in my training I thought once you got the commercial you could fly for hire. It's true but very convoluted. Seeing how most get the commercial so they can get the CFI and build hours, they never need to learn the true workings of FAR 119, 121, and 135 until much later.

Anyway, shoot me an email if your interested.

Scott

[KenSandyEggo]

"(d) Nonstop sightseeing flights conducted with airplanes having a passenger-seat configuration of 30 seats or fewer and a maximum payload capacity of 7,500 pounds or less that begin and end at the same airport, and are conducted within a 25 statute mile radius of that airport; however, except for operations subject to SFAR 50–2 of 14 CFR part 121, these operations, when conducted for compensation or hire, must comply only with §§121.455 and 121.457, except that an operator who does not hold an air carrier certificate or an operating certificate is permitted to use a person who is otherwise authorized to perform aircraft maintenance or preventive maintenance duties and who is not subject to FAA-approved anti-drug and alcohol misuse prevention programs to perform—"

Bold and italics are mine. Apparently sight-seeing flights do not have to come under part 135 and what....120-something and have operational certificates. The 2 compliances above are for flying drunk or under drugs. I looked at 119, 121 and 135, and it's not really very clear.

It doesn't really say when a commercial certificate is exactly required, unless they mean doing anything for compensation always requires one. It looks like what a "Barnstormer" needs to have is an FAA approved facility or mechanic do the work on the plane, a commercial certificate, start and land at the same airport without any stops and don't fly more than 25 miles away. Actually, it looks pretty uncomplicated, other than meeting the commercial requirements, in order to just sell short rides at a fly-in or airport. But what do I know? :confused:

[KenSandyEggo]

Tim, mine is the "Super" with a constant-speed prop. I will be paid for my gyro on the 25th of this month with pick-up a few days later. Mine is in Little Rock, AR. We just put our condo up for sale in anticipation of moving from San Diego to Charlotte, NC. I sure would love to bring her to San Diego for awhile and fly her around here some, but that would probably mean disassembly and trailering for such a long trip. That 20 gallons doesn't last long in a 180 h.p. gyro for that long of a X-country.

Practically speaking, we will probably move to Charlotte and then I will ferry her from Little Rock to Charlotte. This way the 3 blades don't have to be disassembled, a job a lot different than removing a simple 2-bladed system, I believe. I don't think I'm up to a ferry flight to San Diego and then back to Charlotte. The gas bill would kill my wallet.

By the way, does anyone know of someone who has J-2 ferry tanks laying around? They were an option. I'd like to buy, beg or borrow them, preferably buy. I talked to a couple guys in central California that had a J-2 for sale with ferry tanks, but I passed on the deal. Guess it wouldn't hurt to ask them.

[Chuck_Ellsworth]

Ken:

Set your mind to rest about your new toy.

The J2 is a neat machine and you will love it.

I did my Commercial Gyroplane License on Jim Vaneks J2 and I still have an origional J2 Pilot Operating Manual...hell if you don't get a manual you can have mine....

Chuck E.

[KenSandyEggo]

Chuck, I have a flight manual with all the specs for climb-rates, take-off runs, etc. I have "The J-2 Gyroplane and how to fly it" in a .pdf file, but not a hard copy. This is the one you probably mean.

Jim's has the wooden prop and mine has a constant-speed, so the performance should be somewhat better.

I also found a ferry tank that I can borrow. The owner also knows a guy that has several and he was giving them away. He's going to see if he still has some.

[MikeBoyette]

Oh Lord Ken in Awad's neck of the woods. This should be fun. I can't wait to see the first pictures of Ken flying with Ron in the RV.

[KenSandyEggo]

It would take some serious statements under oath for me to crawl into Ron's RV. I am NOT a fan of aerobatics. Call me "Ole Straight and Level," as far as fixed-wings go. :eek: cluck-cluck.

[Chuck_Ellsworth]

Kenny...

Yes my J2 Pilot Operating Handbook is a hard cover, origional from the factory, it was given to me by Chuck Vanek and I will probably never need it again.

I would be honoured to give it to you for your dedication to your fellow aviators and the entertainment that you have provided me with over the years on Norms Forum and now here.

I am of course still in Europe and will be going to Egypt in about ten days...after that I may get back to Canada for a couple of weeks...it all depends on the bookings for the airshow circuit here in Europe....we never really know where we will be going....the next big one will be Budapest Aug. 18 to Aug. 22 we are waiting for conformation from Red Bull who will be sponsoring our airplane for that show.

So if you want it I will send it to you when my season is over.

Chuck

[animal]

Tim, mine is the "Super" with a constant-speed prop. I will be paid for my gyro on the 25th of this month with pick-up a few days later. Mine is in Little Rock, AR. We just put our condo up for sale in anticipation of moving from San Diego to Charlotte, NC. I sure would love to bring her to San Diego for awhile and fly her around here some, but that would probably mean disassembly and trailering for such a long trip. That 20 gallons doesn't last long in a 180 h.p. gyro for that long of a X-country.

Practically speaking, we will probably move to Charlotte and then I will ferry her from Little Rock to Charlotte. This way the 3 blades don't have to be disassembled, a job a lot different than removing a simple 2-bladed system, I believe. I don't think I'm up to a ferry flight to San Diego and then back to Charlotte. The gas bill would kill my wallet.

By the way, does anyone know of someone who has J-2 ferry tanks laying around? They were an option. I'd like to buy, beg or borrow them, preferably buy. I talked to a couple guys in central California that had a J-2 for sale with ferry tanks, but I passed on the deal. Guess it wouldn't hurt to ask them.

Cool Deal Ken,lets us know when you get to carolinas,I am in greensboro about 85 miles from charlotte. So can we count on you to have it at ROC this year in OCT?
of course keep us informed I bet you can't wait.
I don't know where the stuff ended Up but I bought parts for mine from Don farrington. at one time they had a bunch of J-2 parts. as for takening the blades off the J-2, it should be easyer then the semi ridgid rotor, since it is on flapping hindges, I know when Bill my business partner had his TH-55, he could take his blades off in about 30 minutes. since you don't have to readjust anything when you put them back on if you have them color coded it flew great everytime.
You will truely love this machine. BTW we have some good airshows around here, would be cool to see ya fly it in and put it on static display at some of them.
Fly safe.
Tim H.

[KenSandyEggo]

Thanks, Tim. I hope to make all the fly-ins over that way. Believe it or not, there are not that many in southern California. When I flew my Ercoupe in Illinois, there was one close by every weekend except for hard winter.

I believe my extra rotor-head came from Don Farrington. It's brand new.

[KenSandyEggo]

Thanks, Chuck. I'll get in touch when you get back and send you my address. You live such a boring life for an old fart like me. ;)

[animal]

Thanks, Tim. I hope to make all the fly-ins over that way. Believe it or not, there are not that many in southern California. When I flew my Ercoupe in Illinois, there was one close by every weekend except for hard winter.

I believe my extra rotor-head came from Don Farrington. It's brand new.
You will love flying around here, there are small airports all over the place.and a bunch of airshows and Fly-insthey have just started haveing the Big EAA antique classic fly in at the Burlington airport again in the spring that, is always a Big one. and I bet the J-2 would really stand out there as it is a classic,then we have the warbird museam up in asheboro about 20 miles from here,then you also have some airshows in danville v.a. not far. gastonia, which is near Charlotte. statesville is also close and hickory,so I am sure you can stay busy on the weekends. hopefully I will get this Scorpion sold and get a gyro to fly soon.

Tim H.

[KenSandyEggo]

About 6 months ago, this guy Frank that lives near the airport wanted to track me down. He's seen my gyro flying overhead and has been interested in gyros all his life, but never rode in one. He finally tracked me down and has been dropping by every once in awhile while I got her ready. Today was the day.

We flew over to Ramona Airport to visit Reis Evans and his wife Katherine...maybe Catherine, I forget. Hung around for about 45 minutes and then headed back. We left around 9 a.m., so the heat hadn't come up yet to cause any thermals. We've been having a heat-wave here. Attached are a few pics he had Reis take. It may be hard to see, but he had that "Gyro-S**t-Eating-Grin" on his face all day. He's in trouble. His wife is against him flying. I gave him the name of a good attorney. :D

What I found interesting is that it seems that with the new rotor-head and blades, she is just chomping at the bit to leave the ground, even with a passenger. Frank only weighs about 140, but when I took my step-son David the other day, it did the same thing, and he weighs 200 pounds like me. That's 400 pounds of lard on the seat and David and I had 3/4 tank of gas on board. I messed both take-offs today. Landings were fine. One O.K. and one "NAILED."

I also turned onto the runway at well over 200 rrpms both times. It appears that with that much rrpm, I don't have enough ground speed to be flying when I pour in full throttle and need to wait. She easily lifts off at a very low speed and I have to wiggle the stick around trying to keep her straight while she wallows until flying speed is built up.

I believe that what I have to do is to purposely hold the nose-wheel on the ground until some ground speed builds up and then ease back on the stick. When I turn onto the runway with the over 200 rrpm going about 15 m.p.h., it's too early to go full throttle and she wants to lift off right away. It's almost impossible to try to balance on the mains, as the tailwheel must sit about an inch-and-a-half off the ground. There's hardly any room to balance. Any similar experiences or comments?

[pwendell]

Ken,

I always find that I have to keep adding forward pressure during the takeoff roll to keep the ship on the ground until I have suffcient airspeed. This is true with the AAI modifieds I've flown (all, I believe, with Sport Copter blades) and especially with the 2.5 Sparrowhawk. On a good day, I can keep it balanced on the mains until takeoff, otherwise the nose wheel is just lightly on the runway. Once I've built sufficient speed, 50-55mph, I simply relax the forward pressure and she lifts off. I have to add a little forward and left pressure just as she leaves the ground, and a touch of right pedal, to keep her straight. When I've let the aircraft come off early by mistake, it tends to go quite nose high and roll to the right. The first takeoff I made in the Sparrowhawk was really ugly because it came off the ground much earlier than I anticipated. Lesson learned.

I know you have a lot more experience than I do and have probably seen this before, but what you described sounds exactly like what I've felt from day one in the ships I've flown.

[C. Beaty]

A gyro normally lifts off before the rotor is fully up to speed. The rotor must support the full weight of the gyro for a couple of seconds to get the last 25 or 30 rpm.

It’s quite obvious with a mechanical rotor tach but perhaps not so with a digital readout.

During the first few seconds following liftoff, a substantial portion of the retreating blade is stalled which increases the flapping angle and tilts the rotor disc rearward, requiring more forward stick until full rotor rpm is reached.

Allowed to lift off too early, the machine flounders around with the stick near the forward stop. Early liftoffs use more power and require a bit of skill to maintain control.

[KenSandyEggo]

Well, sounds like I just need to keep that puppy on the runway a little longer. It just didn't seem so pronounced with the old RAF rotor-head, even with the S-C blades. The different feeling just threw me a little. She just seems to want to leave the runway a lot sooner and easier than before. Thanks for the comments.

[gyroplanes]

Man, it's absolutely beautiful! Well done!

If you or anyone else hears of another J2 up for sale, PLEASE let me know!

Have a great time flying it.

Ed in Columbus, OH

Yell real loud on this forum. Mike Avenoso wants to sell his J-2.

[scott heger]

Ken, seems like you are performing a classic "short/soft field" takeoff. Best to practice and remember how to do both types. Never know when you are going to have to do another sand dune takeoff near Yuma when you fail to plan your fuel correctly..... Some of us don't forget...
I do practice geting off the ground as fast as possible every once in a while and "whollowing" for a few seconds till the rotor comes up to speed . The ground roll is reduced dramatically. Much easier to pull off in a single place than with a battlecruiser-class gyro like yours.

Scott Heger, Laguna Niguel, Ca N86SH

[KenSandyEggo]

Hey! I had enough fuel to get to Yuma. I just didn't know it at the time. If the fuel probe in the tank was a few inches longer, I wouldn't have even made a precautionary landing and would have tootled the rest of the way to Yuma.

[KenSandyEggo]

Tom, didn't Mike just buy it? Wha' happen? Mike, are you here?

[david holmes]

Hey! I had enough fuel to get to Yuma. I just didn't know it at the time. If the fuel probe in the tank was a few inches longer, I wouldn't have even made a precautionary landing and would have tootled the rest of the way to Yuma.

I love "loading" up with a full tank (7 gal) and flying with piece of mind to land with lesss than a gallon. In the scheme of things $495 ain't much.

[KenSandyEggo]

It cost me about that much to replace one fuel pump that fried because it sucked some fine sand.

[Harry_S.]

Ken;
What was said is all correct...but they didn't offer any numbers.

When turning onto the center line with 200 rrpm is great...but don't go to full bore. Go to 3500 erpm and back stick. When you reach either 250 rrpm or you rock back on the tail wheel, forward stick and throttle up to 4000.

If solo...when IAS reads at least 40...then go full bore, if you want, and you'll lift right off, with no wallowing. At 40 IAS you'll be playing with getting the nosewheel off the tarmac anyway.

With a passenger...keep the nosewheel on the tarmac with forward stick till you reach 60-65 IAS...relax stick pressure and she'll fly right off.

Try this T&G next time your flying with a direct runway nose wind. Say you're trimmed for S&L and you approach to land...after you touch down and are solid, ease in the power...don't touch the stick...your ship will accelerate to a beautiful liftoff and climbout.

Cheers :)

[KenSandyEggo]

It seems funny that I have to think about it now. It just "happened" before. Maybe it was the layoff while I fixed her up and got a little rusty.

[Mike Hook]

Ken here is a J-2 book on ebay now http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6547177189&category=419&ssPageName=WDVW&rd=1

6 days left going for 5.75 at this time.


Mike

[Harry_S.]

Yep Ken. Extended layoffs from piloting will do that...especially for the older or senior pilots. :rolleyes:

I'm in that group as well...old but no longer bold...and still aviating. ;)


Cheers :)

[KenSandyEggo]

Thanks, Mike. I have it as a .pdf file to look at. I'll check back and see what it bids up to.

[Rotornut]

Harry S, OLD HUM BUG!!!! You Looked Great at BD Days. MJ :)

[david holmes]

Ken,
when I was flying jets off the carrier, the arrested landing skill was considered so perishable that we could not make a night arrested landing unless we had made a DAY arrested landing within the last 24 hours. This could make a tough schedule for someone coming back from a strike over North Vietnam after sundown. (never applied to me -- never flew over VN)

Those were the days before electronic coupled approaches. I don't know if it still applies to those "coupled" approaches. I am told that on launch, the F-18 pilot has to have his hands OFF the control because the computer flies the a/c.

[Harry_S.]

Thanks MJ...I owe you a BIG ONE!!! ;)


Cheers :)

[Hognose]

Can I simply sell rides with a commercial ticket, or must I get a CFI rating so I can call the rides "Introductory Flight Lessons?" One CFI thinks I just need a commercial add-on as long as I don't do charter work. Anyone know for sure?

Ken, for sure, you can sell rides with a certified aircraft and a Commercial pilot's licence that is appropriate for the class and category (and type, if a type rating is required, but there ain't no turbojet gyros, or 6 1/4 ton ones, either).

We sell sightseeing rides and conduct traffic reporting flights for SmartRoutes (fixed wing). In both cases, we require our pilots to have a full commercial ticket. We do not require them to be CFIs and neither does FAA.

See, I learned something from buying into an FBO (apart from the obvious lesson: don't buy into an FBO).

cheers

-=K=-

[KenSandyEggo]

Thanks, Kev.

[Chuck Roberg]

Ken, in addition to what Kevin mentioned.

If you put on more than 100 hrs on your gyro since your last annual. Then in order to continue to fly it commercially you wil need a 100 hr. inspection done. Plus you still need the annual inspections done. If you put on less than 100 hrs in a 12 month period then no problem.

Remember an annual inspection trumps a 100 hr inspection. But a 100 hr. can not be used as an annual.

If you are giving "rides" there is no mileage limit you can go in one day. But the passenger has to be returned to the location from which the flight originated. In other words you can not transport him/her from airport A to airport B. In that case it becomes a charter operation under part 135.

If during the course of the "ride" you require fuel and need to stop at a different airport for fuel. Thats OK. Just don't let your passenger get lost. Make eure you return with him/her.

Now, if you want to do a Santa ride where you fly a Santa to a different location, but you return with out Santa. This is covered thru a waiver in part 116 for part 135. I believe your usually the one playing Santa. So I don't think you will need to read up on this one. :o

The two questions you asked are on the commercial test in one form or another. So you'll be reading up on this again. :)

I'm off to Mentone in an hour. Everybody play nice here. ;)

[KenSandyEggo]

You also have to stay within 25 miles of where you take off from and return to.