View Full Version : Is there a problem with my pedals? With pics!
How much travel should the pedals have? I attatched 2 pics to show the range my pedals have. I don't know, but they seem like they don't have enough travel. Of course, I don't know how much this would affect rudder travel so thats why I'm asking. Anyway, suggestions would be appreciated!!
gyroparts
06-24-2005, 05:40 AM
That looks like what they should do. They may even move a little less than that when the rod end bearings are attached. Just make sure you have a bit of clearance between the bottom of the arch support bolts and the rudder pedal brace. You might have to add an additional washer under the head of the bolts to help with that. My pedals just touch the top of the brace when pushed all the way back...like your picture 1, and stand just a little less than vertical when the other touches the top. Looks good...keep on buildin'
~Jerry
RICK MARTIN
06-24-2005, 07:16 AM
Looks good to me. I think I did end up making the inside member of each pedal a little longer so that I could get a little more rudder deflection. And I also put multiple holes on each rudder control horn to help control the ratio. But remember that I do not have a stock tail.
And to tell you the truth, I use the rudder so little during normal flight, that I think you are being overly concerned. You don't often hear folks say that they have too little rudder deflection. Although my friend Bo has a Honey Bee tail on his Bee, has flown mine and says he likes mine better because it does have a little more authority.
My whole vertical surface may be a little large. My machine weathervanes easily in a good side gust. And even though this gaught me off guard the first few times, I guess it can be good thing. Pointing into the wind can't be all bad can it? Anybody else have thoughts about this? Doug?
But back to your pictures. You will not be comfortable with your ankle deflected any more than pictured. I don't think you'll ever use all that travel. So it looks great in my opinion.
Thats' good news. I am planning on use a the StarBee tail (unless I can find a good tube and fabric tail) so the rudder should have plenty of authority. Thanks for the tips guys!
Doug Riley
06-24-2005, 09:25 AM
The EAA Experimenter had a great article about a dozen years ago on cockpit ergonomics. It gave comfortable angle ranges for head, back, thighs, arms, feet and so on. As I recall, the range of foot motion of the type used in rudder pedals was vertical to 40 degrees forward. KDOG's pedals look as if they travel more than that. At the extreme ranges you (well, I) get leg cramps. If a 40-degree pedal throw, stop-to-stop, doesn't deflect the rudder enough, you need to change the leverage ratio between pedal and rudder, not make the pedal travel a bigger arc.
The vertical tail surfaces should positively yaw the gyro into the relative wind. The controllable part of the tail must, however, have enough authority to defeat this "weathervane" effect when the pedals are deflected. If that ability isn't there, you won't be able to land in a crosswind.
If a 40-degree pedal throw, stop-to-stop, doesn't deflect the rudder enough, you need to change the leverage ratio between pedal and rudder, not make the pedal travel a bigger arc.
Aaah thats what I was looking for. I was wondering if that might be the case. In the flying photos forum there's a video that RotorHead put up with him flying and I paid attention to his feet on the pedals and they hardly seem to move, even in the sharper turns.
Thanks for the heads up everyone!
GyroRon
06-24-2005, 04:44 PM
on Barrys Gyrobee we turned the angle piece that the pedals bolt to around so the L - when looking at a side view like in your pics - faces to the front, not the back as the plans called for. Easy swap around and gave twice the pedal travel. Not sure how good Barrys tail is, but as your just about to leave the ground on takeoff and just as your landing, you can end up needing all the left rudder the pedals allow. I don't think it would have flown had we not reversed the L bracket.
banaari
06-24-2005, 05:16 PM
Kevin - that looks fine to me - i.e. exactly like mine! :D
John
p.s. That's one VERY stylish looking workshop - does Mrs. KDOG know???
Ron: I see what you are saying. Maybe I'll do that....
Bannari: Yeah the wife knows, it just had to leave when I was done taking the pictures!
RICK MARTIN
06-24-2005, 06:58 PM
Ron, Is Barry's vertical fin offset relative to the keel? If not, that may be why you have to apply so much left rudder. Mine is offset and I don't feel that need for left rudder.
GyroRon
06-24-2005, 07:12 PM
His is not offset and I know that could have helped his alot..... Seemed like when I flew yours it still took a good bit of left pedal during takeoff and landings. Of course if you keep the nose wheel on the ground and don't balance on the mains before takeoff that will help and also if you come in hot for landing and or with power will help. I like to balance on the mains before takeoff and I like to always come in to land with no power.
Are we talking about the 10 degree left offset for the rudder? Or do you do the whole tail? Seems like if I set the rudder to 10 degrees offset with the pedals neutral, it should be fine...
RICK MARTIN
06-25-2005, 01:30 PM
Kevin, I just got back from the airport and I have lots of pictures. Give me an hour or so.
RICK MARTIN
06-25-2005, 02:21 PM
Kevin, What you want to do is set the fixed vertical fin at as much of an offest as you can and still stay on top of the keel. I used a piece of Teak. The wood (or whatever you use) is tapered. I went thick at the front to nothing at the rear for the left piece. Then the opposite for the right piece. Then I just sandwiched the fin in between the aluminum plates with the two tapered pieces of wood on each side. There was a lot of trial and error getting everything to fit correctly, but I eventually got it.
I got the idea from my friend Bo with the Honey Bee tail.
RICK MARTIN
06-25-2005, 02:27 PM
"Pointing into the wind can't be all bad can it?
I apologize for my lunacy. Of course this would be bad in a crosswind landing. Thank you once again Doug. Maybe my jumbo tail is a good thing after all. It's always been very controlable landing in a crosswind (so far).
RICK MARTIN
06-25-2005, 03:29 PM
Kevin, here are the pictures I promised. Let me know if you would rather have them via regular email. Rudder cables, pod mounting and pedals.
RICK MARTIN
06-25-2005, 03:32 PM
Here are three more showing the full amount of rudder deflection each way and the adjustment holes in the rudder control horns.
Great pics! I saved them for later analysis. The adjustment holes- you would move them out for more leverage, correct?
RICK MARTIN
06-26-2005, 05:04 PM
Correct. Out = more leverage but less travel
RICK MARTIN
06-26-2005, 05:05 PM
Please note that my clevis pins are not in line with the rudder hinge like they should be.
Another question: Where do you get those 2"x2" end caps for the square aluminum?
Doug Riley
06-27-2005, 08:52 AM
Rick, say it ain't so -- the dreaded over-center tail?
The Watson tail plans also show rudder horns that are drastically over-center. It's a common mistake. It makes the tail tend to lock over to one side or the other.
Rick? You there? Sorry if it seems like I'm being pushy, I'm just at that stage where I need to be getting this stuff...
Alan Coats
06-30-2005, 04:34 AM
Kevin,
LEAF has the 2"x2" end caps in their catalog. They are really cheap.
Alan
RICK MARTIN
06-30-2005, 09:35 AM
Kevin,
Don't ever, ever hesitate to ask or call: home is 941 795-4668, cell is 941 812-7182.
I, and everyone else did the same thing. That's what this forum is all about.
The sources I used are Wicks, LEAF, Aircraft Spruce, Lockwood Aviation and now I have a California Power Systems catalog also.
RICK MARTIN
06-30-2005, 09:42 AM
Doug,
Yes, on my rudder, a line drawn through the clevis pins would pass about an inch behind the hinge. I just didn't know any better at the time. It's not severe enough to cause the reported lockup, but to change it is simple and I will do it. As far as I can tell, the other consequence is that set up this way (I still have a control horn up front because my cables pull from the bottom of the pedals) you cannot maintain even tension on the cables throughout the full range of the pedals. Once again though, the slop is very minor and doesn't really create a problem.
Thanks guys. Just placed an order with Wicks for a whole mess of crap...here we go! I'm getting there!
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