Sparrowhawk Skydat

[WesTech]

Looking for some help on the sparrowhawk/skydat setup. My oil pres., oil temp., and coolant temp. all seem off. Apparently Dan said that my oil senders I got with the kit are the wrong ones, but my coolant temp. which is the subaru stock sender should be O.K. I used a temp. gun and everything according to it reads normal. But both my coolant and oil temp. read high on the skydat, they seem to start out high and end up about 40degrees higher than my temp. gun. Double checked grounds and connections, All seem good. All other read outs on the skydat seem accurate....voltage, rpm, etc.

[twistair]

Wes, in both mine SHs everything with Skydat worked OK right out of box but I had similar problem a couple years ago when installed a EA-71 Subaru on another gyro. I used regular Sub senders and indicators of another brand and got much higher readings on water temp. I simply changed senders for those which used with those regilators. I believe it's just a matter of resistance level in senders - definitely this is not a problem with ground or connections.
Which senders do you have? i.e. water temp - is it standard big automotive or small size VDO sender? VDO sender should work correctly.
Photo shows VDO sender. When your kit arrives there are standard automotive senders installed at engine. These are to be removed and replaced with VDO ones included in kit.

[WesTech]

Thanks Alex, I think that's what it boils down to is the senders. Dan is sending me some to replace these. Think it's great what your doing over there. Keep it up!

[Canadian Rhino]

Does that unit not have the option to go in and select which type of sensor you are using for example type K or what ever? I wish GBR would get the lead out and send me my manual so i could try to help you out here! ;)

[Harry_S.]

How 'bout the part no. and source...Pep Boys, NAPA or Sub dealer...for the VDO sender?!

Thank you. :)


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[WesTech]

I can't get VDO product here in Canada and at least our local parts guys havn't been able to match them up to the line they carry...Stewart warner.
As for the part # I don't have it here at home. Today I removed the coolant temp sensor and connected the lead from the skydat to it and an engine ground to the body. Immersed it in a can of water and put a temp. probe in with it. With the engine off, but the skydat display on, voltage at approx. 12.3v the probe read the water at room temp. to be 63deg while the skydat came in at 80deg. Then using a torch, I warmed the water up and observed both readings to climb, but the skydat was always at least 20deg. higher. I've concluded the sender to be the problem and so will attempt to replace it. Again this is the stock coolant temp. sender that came with the engine, unless it was changed by a previous owner or something. Anyway thanks for the input and we'll take it from here I guess.

[Canadian Rhino]

Weston, Is that unit grounded to the frame or the engine? maybe try grounding it to the engine directly? The voltage drop on the ground wire to the battery caused by the heavy charging current from the alternator would be enough to throw your gauges off. Also you may have the wrong type of sender for example if the gauge is designed for a type K and you are using a type J the gauge will read high like you are seeing. For example at 90 c type K would read 3.682 MV and type J would read 4.726 MV. Here is a link to the charts for your info. ;)
http://instrumentation-central.com/pages/thermocouple_reference_table.htm

[Canadian Rhino]

Also I forgot to add, The quickest way for you to find out what you have is to stick the sensor into boiling water or ice water with a meter hooked on to it. ;) If this guage set up is calibrated for RTD type sensors, here is a link to the charts for them.
http://listserve.minco.com/sensorcalc/rtd/index.php?action=start

[twistair]

Rhino, I'm aware this sender isn't thermocouple, just a thermoresistor.

Wes, I wonder why you cannot clear this thing with AAI? Anyway, I have it's type&model somewhere in my workshop, will check tomorrow and post it. Here in Moscow they are available in many automotive shops and they are for sure available from any Rotax/Hirth distributors (though they cost 3-4 times more there :).

[Canadian Rhino]

Rhino, I'm aware this sender isn't thermocouple, just a thermoresistor.


Alex, the values for these are under my RTD link. I gave him both to try to help him out! ;)

[twistair]

Well, Wes, I have two news, good one and another one.

Good is that I can tell exact model for oil temp sender used in our SHs. It is VDO 323-057D
Breath search shows some sources for them in US. For example:
http://www.carshopinc.com/product_info.php/products_id/55930/323-057D

Just for reference: oil pressure sender is VDO 360-004D

Bad news is that I wasn't perfect when wrote about replacing senders: only oil senders (both pressure and temp) should be replaced, coolant temp senders weren't replaced in my kits.

Do you have any progress fixing the problem?

[WesTech]

Well boys, this is turning into one of those nightmares. Got a new sender today that is s'posed to be a stock temp. sender for a subaru ej22 1990-2000. Gave the parts guys my best guess on the engine year and what it came out of. I think most of them come out of the Legacy model. Moving on; I again tested the new sensor in the same way as the old one, and to my frustration it reacted the same. So I went back to my wiring. Went through it all. Everything is identical as per AAI specifications. The module is grounded to the engine. I have no resistance in any of my four wires that connect to the skydat display. I have maybe .1 volt drop between the battery terminals to the 4 pin connector at the display, 0-.4 ohms of resistance from the engine to the battery ground. Let's just say I'm at the point that it's either got to be the skydat itself or the sender. The other senders(oil temp. and pres.) are on their way from AAI. So I can't really check them. But according to all instruction this coolant temp. should work. Anyway, Thanks again for your input, and I'll definately go over and check the sender info.

[WesTech]

By the way Alex, what does your engine run at? temp. Both our modifieds run at about 180deg.

[Harry_S.]

Went out this morning on a mission to find a VDO water temp. sender.

First stop was at NAPA. The fella behind the counter was very knowledgeable as regards what I was after. As he reached for the catalogue, his comment was that he needed to know the *sweep* of the indicator. Anyhow , the sender is matched to how the face of the guage is laid out.

I pointed out the picture of the face of the indicator that's in my panel...and he went to the bin and came back with the sender. I will install it tomorrow and check it out.

NAPA part no. for the 250 deg. range...from maybe 9:30 thru 2:30...sender is
....701 1810.

All the numbers on this new sender are on the old one except...the old one was made in Germany; the new one was made in the Czech Republic. ;)


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[twistair]

All the numbers on this new sender are on the old one except...the old one was made in Germany; the new one was made in the Czech Republic. ;)
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Harry, that's normal: Mannersmann VDO company has facilities in both Germany and Czech.

[Canadian Rhino]

Weston, I got some info for you from Skydat after about 3 emails!

The EGT senders are "K" type thermocouple
The water temp, oil temp must be +/- 800 Ohms @ 25degC decreasing with temp.
Oil press. must be VDO type 0-10Bar (+/-10 Ohms @ 0 Bar increasing with pressure)

With that being said you should be able to check your Skydat with simple Radio Shack resisters to help you trouble shoot this. ;)

[Harry_S.]

Thank you, Alex.


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[twistair]

By the way Alex, what does your engine run at? temp. Both our modifieds run at about 180deg.

Err, Wes, I'm still confused with these F temps :rolleyes:
We usually have coolant temp 86-88 C at cruise (4000-4200 rpm). I suspect it must be 186-190 F. Oil temp shows mostly 75-78 C (168-172 F). In winter we have to cover 2/3 of radiator to keep temps at this level.

Cheers,

[WesTech]

Thanks Phil.

[WesTech]

Alex, My coolant temp. is running approx. 217-222deg. Farenheit.