New Gyro

[Timchick]

I just got back from a road trip to pick up my gyro. It's a KB-2 with a 72 Mac-o-matic (without the optional heating trays), Wunderlich prerotator, rotor brake, Dragon Wing blades, air speed indicator, and a rotor tach. It needs a little TLC but it'll be good for me to start with. Before I fly I'm adding a HS stab and Hagar wheels with disc brakes on the mains. I'm going to use a hydraulic line-loc for a parking brake since I'll be prop starting it. Later on I plan on upgrading the tail to the newer type and I'd like to add mufflers. I plan on going over every inch (and bolt) and doing a hang test before I fly. I'll have plenty of time to do that while I'm saving for my lessons. I hope to get my lessons and be in the air some time this summer.

[Timchick]

When I was picking up my gyro the Sheriff's dept. brought out their chopper and took off. It was pretty sweet looking.

[GyroRon]

Cool Tim, looks nice! Yes Mufflers should be # 2 on the list, after the stab! A mac with muffler is too loud as it is.....

How is those videos you shot at Bensen Days coming along? I sure would like to get a copy!!!

[Brian Jackson]

Good goin' Tim. I'm a newbie to this as well, but I noticed a couple of things in the photo that I was curious about. First was how "straight" the blades were, with very little sagging. Perhaps it's an optical thing with the lens of the camera, but since the background geometry appears straight as well, those blades appear to be quite rigid. What length are they?

Secondly, a lot of the gyros I've seen have a longer hub bar, and I am unfamiliar with that of the Brock machines. Is yours a typical Brock head & hub bar? I only ask because I remember seeing a photo of a KB3 (different machine entirely) that used a different hub bar arrangement if memory serves. I'm just curious and trying to learn.

Thanks. Your new gyro looks very nice from the photo. It'll just make your training all the more sweet, and you'll get to solo in your own machine! :D I'm really happy for you!

Best wishes,
Brian

[Rotor-Head]

Cool Tim... that's very cool. Cool Cool Cool! .. shawn

[ben]

tim sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet pard wish ya the best with it

[CLS447]

Tim, that's a nice looking machine! Best of luck with it!

[Timchick]

Ron, Who makes exhaust systems for the macs? Does anyone out there have one they would part with?

[GyroRon]

not sure. gyromike might could help

[Screw]

Screw-In

Good going Tim. Very nice meeting you at Bensen days and good luck with your KB-2.

Screw-Out

[barnstorm2]

Congratulations!

[barnstorm2]

72 Mac-o-matic (without the optional heating trays.

You did get the garlic press though right? :D

[gyromike]

Good goin' Tim. I'm a newbie to this as well, but I noticed a couple of things in the photo that I was curious about. First was how "straight" the blades were, with very little sagging. Perhaps it's an optical thing with the lens of the camera, but since the background geometry appears straight as well, those blades appear to be quite rigid. What length are they?

Secondly, a lot of the gyros I've seen have a longer hub bar, and I am unfamiliar with that of the Brock machines. Is yours a typical Brock head & hub bar? I only ask because I remember seeing a photo of a KB3 (different machine entirely) that used a different hub bar arrangement if memory serves. I'm just curious and trying to learn.


Best wishes,
Brian

Brian,

That machine has Dragon Wing rotors on it. The hub bar is only about 1 foot long, and the blades are fairly rigid.

Tim mentioned these things in his first post.
Apparently you are still in shock from the loss of your pet Beluga whale, and missed that part. :p

[gyromike]

Ron, Who makes exhaust systems for the macs? Does anyone out there have one they would part with?

Tim,

The exhaust on my machine uses a pair of Cherry Bomb glass packs, which should be easy to find.
They connect to the manifolds with 2" stainless flex-pipe.

The manifolds are the tricky part though. I don't know who makes them, as I found my set used. Construction should be fairly straightforward though, being 2 rectangular sleeves which slip over the exhauhst stacks and are welded to a 2" pipe.

If you need pictures, I can take some closeups of mine.

I have heard that the "freon can" type of exhaust is a more effective muffler, but I've never heard one in person. Maybe one of our more 'seasoned' fliers like Tom Milton may know more.

[scottessex]

I think you can go to your local AutoZone, in thier aviation department, and get some cherry bomb mufflers for about $25 a pair! :)

There used to be a guy in Georgia that made some expansion chambers, but he hasn't made any for years.

[gyromike]

I think you can go to your local AutoZone, in thier aviation department, and get some cherry bomb mufflers for about $25 a pair! :)

There used to be a guy in Georgia that made some expansion chambers, but he hasn't made any for years.


Actually, I spoke to that gentleman several months ago.
He said that he can still make them up if anyone wants a set.

His name is Ewlan (Hulon?) Burnett, and his phone number is 706-648-3433.

He quoted me a price of $500 + freight (~$35) for a set of pipes.
They weigh 16 lbs. with manifolds.

[Brian Jackson]

Brian,

That machine has Dragon Wing rotors on it. The hub bar is only about 1 foot long, and the blades are fairly rigid.

Tim mentioned these things in his first post.
Apparently you are still in shock from the loss of your pet Beluga whale, and missed that part. :p
:D :D :D
Hi Mike. Actually I did read his first post a couple times before I asked. I was just curious about the head brand and arrangement. I've been reading and learning a lot here about coning and undersling, which is why I was curious. I promise no whales were harmed in this inquiry :D

Cheers,
Brian Jackson

[gyromike]

Brian,

Bensen/Brock blades are very limber (SkyWheels also), as evidenced by their "droopiness", and have straight hub bars. The blades are flexible enough to cone upwards under a load, and tends to be a gentle arc along the whole blade.

Stiffer bonded blades like Dragon Wings and Rotordynes have the coning angle built into the hub bar.

Stiff blades will still cone up with a straight hub bar, but adding coning angle to the hub bar relieves the stress that would be placed on the root end of the blades.

[scottessex]

If you have ever messed with tuned pipes............$500 a pair seems quite reasonable.
What is the power gain? 15, 20%?
I think Rick Whitridge has a set of Burnett pipes, He should know how well they work.

[Brian Jackson]

Thanks, Mike! Your explanation shed some light on that subject for me. Attached is a photo from the Ken Brock Manufacturing site showing a KB2 hub bar. I remembered it was a little different configuration than other styles I've seen. For some reason that stuck with me, and was why I asked about the hub bar in the photo.

It's difficult to tell from the KBM site how the blades attach, so I can only surmise that the blade straps for Dragon Wings require a different, shorter hub bar to span the same rotor diameter.

http://www.kenbrockmfg.com/kb2-kit5.jpg

[Timchick]

Brian,
Like someone else already mentioned, the hub bar came with the dragon wings and it is shorter than the brock type. It also has a slight angle built into the hub bar. When I first saw that I thought the hub bar had been bent but after some investigation I discovered it is suppose to be like that. I don't know how long the blades are. I'll measure them this afternoon. Also, this gyro is suppose to be a KB-2 but the joy stick is not the standard Brock type. The tail is a brock tail but I don't know what any other differences are between the KB-2 and a Bensen BM-8. Can someone tell me what the difference is between a Bensen and a KB-2? Are a lot of the parts interchangable? I'd hate to order some replacement parts from Brock only to find out this is a Bensen.

[gyroplanes]

I have heard that the "freon can" type of exhaust is a more effective muffler, but I've never heard one in person. Maybe one of our more 'seasoned' fliers like Tom Milton may know more.

Ron Menzie used to make the glass packed muffler set up for the Mac.
Hulon Burnett was the expansion chamber guy. His exhaust made the Mac sound wild and drew out gobs of horsepower, he quit making exhaust and concentrated on motorcycle carriers or something like that. I almost coaxed him into making me a set, for a hefty fee. I have no contact information for him anymore, sorry.

I think the PRA magazine had many an article on Mac exhaust. Dr Bruce Charnov has a index somewhere.

[gyromike]

Ron Menzie used to make the glass packed muffler set up for the Mac.


Bingo!

Now I remember. :rolleyes:

Thanks, Tom.

[Timchick]

The blades are in the travel box. I measured them this afternoon. Each blade is 11' long with a foot between them on the hub bar. Does that count as 22' or 23' blades?

[gyromike]

23 footers, Tim.

[WindRyder06]

Tim,
Way to go!! Glad to see you went an picked it up. Best of luck on getting it flying and you completing your training.

How did the film footage from BD's come out????

Fly Safe,
Chris

[pwongkit]

Tim.! I have the plan show how to made the Mc muffler from the freon tank.( That I used in my KB2) it easy to make one.let me know if you want it.
pwongkit :o

[gyromike]

Tim.! I have the plan show how to made the Mc muffler from the freon tank.( That I used in my KB2) it easy to make one.let me know if you want it.
pwongkit :o

Pamorn,

I would like to have a copy of these plans also.
Just curious as to how it's built.

[Rick Whittridge]

Tom is correct on the pipes for the Mac. Hullon made me 3 sets of his pipes a couple of years back. They are the best choice for performance ! The freon can is the Quietest ex , Menzie`s pipes works well also for sound & performance. But if you want to sleep into the morning don`t Hang Around With Dave Prater!

There nothing like the sound of a MAC in the Morning right Ron!

[Timchick]

Pwongkit,
Yes, I'd like to see those plans. I have someone locally that can help me make a set if I don't purchase some eslewhere.

[pwongkit]

This is the KB-2 Mc muffler from POPULAR ROPORCRAFT FLYING Vol.11 No.4 Oct 1971 :D

[Bob Simmons]

don't it make you feel - that wild and crazy guy feeling, now that your one of the elite?
grrrrrrrr... tonight you can go howl at the moon --- your almost there. BOB

[pwongkit]

Mc muffler. I don't know how to uplode the image like you guy. anyway send me your e-mail address and I will send it to you. I get off work at 4:00 PM my e-mail address is pwongkit@tds.net :)
pwongkit

[pwongkit]

Hi.. Mike & Tim I already send you an e-mail for Mc Muffler & Fancy Trim Adjusting Device I hope you guy get it. :) Mike say he gonna post it on the forum for me Thank you Mike. :rolleyes:
pwongkit

[gyromike]

Here are the articles and diagrams.

Thanks Pamorn.

[Friendly]

I could post some pictures of one tomorrow if someone needs to see it mounted on a frame

[Timchick]

Friendly, I'd like to see the pictures. I can see I'll have to find someone with a machine shop pretty soon.

[mikezcnc]

Number 7 in the drawings above is called "an empty freon can from a refrigerator repair shop'. Since refrigerator repair shop are not common htese days, can someone give more explanation what kind of can should I be looking for and where? Mike

[WindRyder06]

You should be able to get one at an appliance repair shop. They are all over the yellow pages.

Fly Safe,
Chris

[pwongkit]

You can ask the people who work in the AC repair shop/services or you can use 5gl air tank but it a little heavier. :)
pwongkit

[WindRyder06]

Yeah, Them too..... :D

[pwongkit]

Tim ! This is some pics of Mc muffler I made it by my self. :)
pwongkit

[robertstodaro]

Tim

I'd suggest you also replace the fwd seat struts with steel ones. I broke my aluminum ones at the lower bolt hole and as luck had it, they stayed cradled on the bolt and the seat did not fold fwd. Also make sure the back of the seat is secured to the mast to avoid a fold over. A stab in the prop wash help this desigh too.

[stuart]

Congratulations on your new gyro Tim. I see that you plan on installing a hydraulic line-loc parking brake on your machine. I had a recent 'incident' that has made it clear that I need one too. I fly at out of an airport where I have never seen another person; so with no help available and after Chuck Irby's death I wanted a really safe way to secure my gyro while starting and boarding. For many starts I used a rope attached to a loop at the seat with a slip knot with the other end attached to a tie-down stake. In order to prevent the line being sucked up by the prop I always pulled the gyro forward so as to tighten the line before propping. In that it was at least 8 inches below I thought this would be adequate to prevent any problem. I was wrong. A couple of days ago, just before starting forward the rope got in the prop. Fortunately no harm done, but I've got to come up with something better, and it sounds like what you're planning would work well for me. Any information would be appreciated. I know this has been sort of lengthy, but if anyone is securing their machine this way they could get into trouble. Thanks stuart

[Timchick]

Stuart,
My gyro also has a releasing hook by the tail wheel. The release lever is up near the seat. It's purpose is to allow the gyro to be tied to something during startup and then once sitting in the seat pulling the cable releases it at the back. I'll try taking some pictures of it tomorrow and posting them. At first I planned on removing it because I didn't think I'd need it but I think i will leave it on. Someone told me the line-loc would not prevent the gyro from moving during start-up if the throttle was set too high. They said the wheels may lock but would slide across the ground. I'm still planning on installing the line-loc because I think even a little resistance is better than nothing.

Robert,
I'm planning on the stab and I'll check out my seat support mounts. Thanks.

Pwongkit,
Nice pics. I've never done any welding so I'm going to need to find a place to have mine made or purchase one.

[stuart]

Sounds like a great idea Tim; thanks in advance for the pictures. stuart

[pwongkit]

Tim.! ...sounds good to keep the releasing hook.My old muffler it was tuned pipes muffler but I didn't like it I took it off but I use the header for my freon tank muffler.here some pics of my tuned pipes muffler. :)
pwongkit

[pwongkit]

Tuned pipes pics.
pwongkit

[Rick Whittridge]

Why didn`t you like the tuned pipes? Want to sell them?

[gyromike]

Pamorn,

Let me know also if you want to sell them.

[Timchick]

Here's a picture of my releasing hook. I've seen similar hooks on the front of some of the earlier gyro gliders as a way to release the tow line. Some of the more experienced guys would know for sure if this is one of those.

[pwongkit]

I didn't like it because,it heavier than the freon tank muffler and it's easier to in stalled the HS with freon tank muffler and I think I don't need that much high performente from the tuned pipes muffler. The freon tank it's lighter and good enough for me.Howmuch would you be willing to pay for it? I will donate 50% to the forum. :)
pwongkit

[stuart]

Thanks for the photo Tim. Where did you get the hook? Thanks again, stuart

[Timchick]

It came on the gyro.

[Rick Whittridge]

I will offer you 100.00 for the pipes!

[gyromike]

$101.00 !!! :D

[Rick Whittridge]

102.00!!!! :d ;)

[Timchick]

I believe they are already sold.

[ben]

go gettem tim

[pwongkit]

The tuned pipes muffler it's sold. :)
pwongkit

[Rick Whittridge]

Who is the new owner & how much did they sell for?

[Rotornut]

Rick, We missed you at BD Days. Sorry about not having 2005 t-shirts. Hope to see you in Mentone in July. Take Care and keep in touch. Catfish/MJ :)

[Rick Whittridge]

I miss you too MJ! I might be able to make it to Mentone this year, don`t know yet. Thanks for taking care of my in-laws at BDay`s.

[Rotornut]

Rick, It was my pleasure to visit with your family. We all are Family. I enjoyed the chit chat. Wish you could of made it, but look forward to Mentone. Take Care, MJ :)

[Timchick]

I just got my exhaust back from Jet-Hot coating. Here's some before and after photos. I'm real satisfied with how they turned out.

[Rick Whittridge]

Looking good Tim. What did they charge for the ex coat. I had mine done in GA & it has not held up that well.

[Timchick]

When I sent the dimensions for an estimate they said around $250. I don't think they understood my description because their dimensions on the quote didn't match mine. With return shipping it ended up being $350. My friend had his hot rod headers done with this same coating and he's happy with them but he's only had them for about 6 months. If it keeps them from rusting out quicker I'll be satisfied.