New Forum - RAF Recycle Bin

[davreich]

I thought this was a great idea. Hey, a separate area for RAF, neat. Basically it turned the threads into a target again. Maybe it should be called the Recycle Bin because we hear the same things again and again; did I mention again and again?
Lots of the members have some class and point out older short comings and points to double check. I appreciate that because I have changed some things on my gyro. I thought the bashers went to the AAI thread?
I tend to lurk more, not sign into the forum, or just forget about it. I still enjoy Stans posts and pictures. Thank you, Stan! The thread might improve after they tire of the new area or will stick to constructive advice without all the bias.

[StanFoster]

Dave: After further review by the officials....my call has been changed.

I have had so many e-mails wanting me to just keep sharing my little corner of the gyro world. So.....I will and I will do my best to keep it positive like I have been told many times I have.

Any negative comments will not be from me. I have voluntarily changed my signature to what reflects how I feel about flying an RAF.

Anyone wanting to dispute my enjoyable flights...go ahead. It will be answered with more flights and pictures. :D

I didnt realize how many enjoy seeing views from a gyrcopter. These far outweigh the ones that dont.

I am posting a picture of my 84 year old dad that I have the distinct honor of giving him tours over his farms. Had he not been a pilot....chances are I wouldnt be either.

So...back to my love of sharing my flying.

Stan

[Heron]

Atta boy Stan!!!!
. . .and you can post negative coments too, if they are pertinent, ok?
thanks
Heron

[StanFoster]

Heron: nope .....just positive. :)


Stan

[Jazzenjohn]

Welcome Back Stan. Your comments and your pictures are some of the best on the forum. I also appreciate all the good advice you've given me through private messages as well as posts. Thanks, John

[Brian Jackson]

Glad you're stickin' around, Stan! Your positive outlook, great pix and general passion for flying are contagious. It's just the kick-in-the-butt I need sometimes to stay motivated on my build when I'm tired and feel overwhelmed at the work ahead of me. Hoping to meet you at Mentone this year.

All the best,
Brian Jackson

[StanFoster]

Brian: Keep posting progress of your gyrobee. It will be a beauty. I am lookin forward to meeting you at Mentone. Bring those whale ashes,....wow...did I ever learn to quit skimming posts. :eek:

Actually....I had second thoughts about dumping those ashes out my window...getting in my prop and all. Maybe Brian wont care if I just dump the bag in a field. :D

Stan

[Brian Jackson]

Brian: Keep posting progress of your gyrobee. It will be a beauty. I am lookin forward to meeting you at Mentone. Bring those whale ashes,....wow...did I ever learn to quit skimming posts. :eek:

Actually....I had second thoughts about dumping those ashes out my window...getting in my prop and all. Maybe Brian wont care if I just dump the bag in a field. :D

Stan
Could make for an interesting "target drop" competition! We'll just set up a little 10-gallon aquarium in the field for the Bullseye :D

[KenSandyEggo]

I had an old hangar neighbor named Ed who flew a bare-bones Aeronca Champ. He's since passed away. No electric and he removed everything that wasn't necessary to make it fly and just used a hand-held radio. Had a 65 h.p. motor that he hand-propped and he flew it everywhere. He called it "The Ramp-Tramp Champ." Anyway, one of the older farts at EAA passed away and Ed volunteered to scatter his ashes over the mountains from his Champ. I was at the airport when Ed came back, and when he stepped out of his plane, he looked like one of those ghost figures at Disney's Haunted Mansion. He was light-gray from head to toe. I guess he never thought of the wind blowing all the ashes back on him when he tried to dump them out the window.

[Harry_S.]

That's a great picture for your album, Stan.

I wish I had some of my dad and me together.


.

[LARRYEBOYER]

Stan, I hope all get to meet you someday as I did. You are truely a friendly sharing, caring individuel.I am glad you had a chance to rethink your decision to not post as much or not at all. I had a chance to rethink my comment about kicking your butt if you stopped posting your cool pictures.My task would have been dificult and yours equally as dificult because you have so much to share.See you at Mentone with the new modified RAF. You think the stabalator screwed up your mind, wait till you fly the new Super Duper Hydred RAF with the new super scientificly designed keel modification designed to fly hands off in hurricane winds and Texas dust devels.All the sooth sayers will be silenced and the world will beat a path to the biggest change in gyro design theory in the history of the world. No, the Universe, No! the Galaxey.One look and all will know that this Puppy rocks.Would you believe a RAF with a slight modification to the keel thought up by a shot in the dark thinker? Well, you get the idea.

[StanFoster]

Larry: I am really looking forward to seeing what you have come up with. I am sure it will be a winner.

It was a treat to have talked to you in person. We should have a lot of good chats at Mentone.

Stan

[Harry_S.]

Dave, We need you and more of the RAF OWNER'S to come onboard here. We've heard enough BS from the non owners and non pilots. They can't get it thru their thick head...THIS FORUM IS FOR THE EXISTING RAF OWNERS.

How much intelligence is needed to understand that?? It's beyond me.


.

[Heron]

Mr. Harry
I have fond memories of my RAf flights, even my first one with Patrick Howell in Venice Fla. After that I did a few more thanks to Pat McNear and served as ballast to test his new 2.2 cam regrind job, he is now using a 2.5 as everyone knows (is it reground?)
I do not own of fly one, and maybe I will never have one, my mind is set on tandem for now, but I would like imensely to participate as observer and asking questions on this forum, even some times be ironic and playfull around here, can I? Pretty please?
Heron

[Harry_S.]

You are welcome Heron, as are all that are truly interested in how we have modified our machines and how we fly and enjoy 'em.

The non-contents...bashers adinfinitum...non-believers... need to go somewhere else. :rolleyes: Or, get a life. ;)


.

[LARRYEBOYER]

I would hope all are welcome to share experiences and pictures of their RAF or a ride with a sharing RAF owner. I love to give rides in mine.At mentone, just step up and ask. even though my new machine is designed to handle hurricane force winds and Texas dust devels, as long as the conditions are safe, we'll fly! :D Heron, that goes for you especially!Stan, you fly the left seat and I get to relax. :)

[gyroplanes]

Keeping this on the positive side, I thought I'd show you some pictures of an RAF in our chapter (18).

I shows what you can do with a lot of imagination and money.

[StanFoster]

Tom: Please educate my ignorance....who owns that beautiful RAF?


Nice....

Yet another one I didnt know about. These machines are all over. I bet he has lots of good comments as well about how it handles.


Stan

[rgraffeo]

Larry,
I can't make it to Mentone this year, but would you bring your gyro to Bensen Days next year?
You owe me a ride.

[mcbirdman]

Dave, Nice Graphics you posted..... The Dark ages..... how symbolic. Nice in your face stabless machine. Nice joke about naming a thread Recycled RAF Bin. How about naming the post "Hand me down RAF" is that ok too? Stick to constructive advice without Bias?

hmmm...... I guess indicating that you are a non believer in the facts or can't accept them.... but like to post photos of history. Actually I think you hit it right on without realizing it. In the dark ages the voices of authority were affecting individuals lives in order to spread their beliefs. What would have had a good message except for their very ignorent ideas on how to achieve these visions cost many lives. Looking back it was reffered to as the dark ages apparently inferring that we are "in the light now"...

I have my own graphics. Would you like some history pictures? They are equally sad, factual and would make my point also. They and not they sort of hype that you are seeming to indicate. But I never would post them because with with each of the photos comes the same pain that is seen in your illustration. I suggest that either you keep your posts to constructive type comments instead of trying to convince other people that the negative feelings many people feel towards the RAF (to keep it simple) is unearned. It seems like you are trying to say it is good to see positive stuff finally all while you are actually saying something indicating that you really are just looking for more....... of what you say you don't want.... I find it very interesting you chose such a photo and posted such graphics at the same time you are saying that you are glad to have an opportunity to share here. Also, if you want to call them bashers then you probably wouldn't mind being called a smasher or whatever. You see, you act like all we want to do is talk trash and then when you start up with posts like that that have NO facts in them you are just asking for another discussion about the facts when it is obvious by your post that you are really just looking to avoid them.

The other people didn't go away, it is just that points were made, and people were trying to go to step two in figuring out what can be done to make things better. Then you come along about a week late and are going to help the poor image with that crap? We are reading and reasonable. By the way, The RAF Catagory can have any number of threads running on any number of specific topics. You started a NEW thread FILLED with hostility towards people that are a lot more reasonable than you have given credit to with your post.
I noticed how you said you made some of the changes on your machine. You are free to pick and choose but if you are going to show up here and start in with the graphics of your unstabbed machine....... this is going to flip right back into the kind of thread that includes facts and the kinda things you guys don't like talking about because you think we are just picking on you because you bought into those
Really Awful Flaws. ( and the history that RAF is trying to shake today )

[mcbirdman]

Tom,
Those are great photos of the RAF I saw this weekend when we came down to the show. This guy put some serious thought into the personalization of his pride and joy. The scheme is beautiful and very well executed. He is very meticulous about his machine with every bolt and washer etc. There is so many details in that paint job tying it to the theme that these few photos, although great - just can't show it the same as seeing it in person. It is the best looking example I have seen of the RAF.

I remember noticing a large handle up front and the owner told me it was a brake handle off a (certain type of car I forgot). It looked good and easy to reach. He moved the strobes down to the wheel pants which he said kept the strobes from protruding into the cabin and cluttering it up with wires. He actually tapered the fiberglass out away from the pants so that the mounting area was extruded gracefully and smoothly while providing shoulder for the a sollid mount.

He also had a long black rod with a ball handle coming up from the center of the console. He said he used that to reach the brakes real fast. Sounded like a good idea that would come in handy.

[GyroRon]

Larry,
I can't make it to Mentone this year, but would you bring your gyro to Bensen Days next year?
You owe me a ride.

don't forget ROC guys!!!! I know if you liked Bensen Days, you will like ROC just as well.

[Harry_S.]

Golly Tom...that fella has more hours in the graphics than I had in building my machine...I think. ;)

I was thinking a while back about how an RAF with both a HS and a stabilator would handle...and here is one. :cool:

Can you give us any info, or can you have that gentleman give us a report?!
Then again...has it flown?

The only negative comment I have is on the vertical stacks. If they are actual exhausts, one could get burned real easy?!

That fella does think out of the box. ;)


.

[mcbirdman]

Harry I think it has flown. He said that he has about ten hours flying raf but something he said made it seem like some of or most of those hours were in d's yellow unstabbed machine. He said he has the stab off because d wants to train him without or something....... but when he is done will put it back on?........... interesting.

Seems like it would make sense to fly in a machine configured the way you intend to fly it instead of learning one way and then learning another. He strongly thinks it is smart to have it though..... hopefully he will change the rod ends too he said he is thinking about doing that too.....

[gyroplanes]

Stan,
The Star Trek RAF belongs to Bob McGuire from Hobart. IN. Bob is also a member of the Flying 80s (PRA 80) from Knox, IN. I fairly sure Bob hasn't soloed yet.

I was a founding member of that chapter after they splintered off from our Chapter 18. Their membership grew and was comprised mainly of RAFs. I think they had a total of 5 or 6, most from northern Indiana, 1 from lower Michigan.

Of all of the airworthiness certifications I have done in the last 6 years, including fixed wings, RAF outnumbers them all, hands down.

Jim,
At the risk of agitating the RAF haters (and I don't consider you one) I don't think it's a bad idea to learn in a machine that is less stable than your own. I think it could be down right fatal to learn in a machine more stable than your own.

When you and I talked the other day I related a story of my vice president, Dave Geboy in Chapter 18 and how he learned to fly a plugs down, 532, Air Command Elite with a body enclosure and Air Command, stock horizontal stabs. He flew it well, at ASC's K.I.M.O. PRA Mentone and even to and from Oshkosh. A year or two later he bought an additional 532, plugs down, Elite without the enclosure and stabs and PPO'd to his death. We didn't see it coming.

And he lived happily ever after (in another place) and Stan bought his enclosured gyro.

OOps, I wanted to keep this positive.

[gyroplanes]

Stan,
The Star Trek RAF belongs to Bob McGuire from Hobart. IN. Bob is also a member of the Flying 80s (PRA 80) from Knox, IN. I fairly sure Bob hasn't soloed yet.

I was a founding member of that chapter after they splintered off from our Chapter 18. Their membership grew and was comprised mainly of RAFs. I think they had a total of 5 or 6, most from northern Indiana, 1 from lower Michigan.

Of all of the airworthiness certifications I have done in the last 6 years, including fixed wings, RAF outnumbers them all, hands down.

Dave Reich,
It's been a while since I braved the Wisconsin winter to visit you and your new "baby". How many hours have you put on her? I'll bet the airport bums up there are still talking about seeing me and my overweight friend pry ourselves out of his Mooney.

Jim,
At the risk of agitating the RAF haters (and I don't consider you one) I don't think it's a bad idea to learn in a machine that is less stable than your own. I think it could be down right fatal to learn in a machine more stable than your own.

When you and I talked the other day I related a story of my vice president, Dave Geboy in Chapter 18 and how he learned to fly a plugs down, 532, Air Command Elite with a body enclosure and Air Command, stock horizontal stabs. He flew it well, at ASC's K.I.M.O. PRA Mentone and even to and from Oshkosh. A year or two later he bought an additional 532, plugs down, Elite without the enclosure and stabs and PPO'd to his death. We didn't see it coming.

OOps, I wanted to keep this positive.

And he lived happily ever after (in another place) and I think good thoughts and have pleasant memories of him and Stan bought his enclosured gyro and got back in the sport (yeah!) .

[mcbirdman]

I don't think it's a bad idea to learn in a machine that is less stable than your own. I think it could be down right fatal to learn in a machine more stable than your own

Hi Tom - I agree ....MUCH better trading up than down. The other part is very sad and I am sorry to hear such a thing.

The part I find interesting is that I think the training hours would be much less with a stabbed machine. It would also make sense to instruct in a machine that is closest to what you are intending to fly. Minimizes transistional time as it is an exact match to the machine he already has and will be known to fly.... Too bad I can't find an exact match for my training. I have no choice ........ but here.........

[StanFoster]

Tom:

Good point on going from something harder to fly to something easier.

My transition from my Air Command which I really enjoyed to my RAF was very easy. In fact I was surprised at how easy the RAF did fly. I did have to get accustomed to the extra torque on take off...but other than that it felt like a part of me after ten hours in it. I never could let go of the cyclic in my Air Command for very long like I can now in my RAF. I can not let go of the cyclic in my RAF on days with lots of thermals like Duane Hunns machine did at Bensen days. I never have seen a demonstration like that.



On that Air Command.....the one time I was scared in it was when I inadvertently tromped one of my hoofs on the left rudder. It went immediately about 45 degrees left crab....followed by my over reactive right hoof that made it go 45 degrees right. It settled down when I settled down.


I was concerned that with the pod on it ....it maybe possible to flip it end for end. I called Ed Aldorfer and he said with my extended tail...it would not.

I wasnt so ham hoofed after that. That cockpit was a little cramped and I just had to keep my hoofs light on the rudders.

Stan

[LARRYEBOYER]

My first training was in a rickity old Parsons. after 7 hours I was declared dangerous. I came home to a Air Command Elete CLT and flew it up and down the runway for a few trips, then said what the heck. Go for it. Wow, it flew like an airplane. Solid and stable. I then purchased a RAF with a stab. I went to Ron Menzie and flew his which was set up similiar to mine.After 5 hours ,he declared me dangerous in type. I have had no surprises with the RAF other than I thought it had some pitch issues that I had not experienced in the AC elete. I purchased a Larry martin Ultimate stab and all the Pitch issues went bye bye . I have no issues with mine whatsoever. I love the way it handles. Rudy, I can't promise the trip to Benson Days next year but ROC looks good and I would love to repay your kindness to me.