Where to buy the Aluminum Cheapest?... or any parts for that matter.

[MrGrey]

I am planning on building a Bee here shortly. I have amassed the funds necessary to build almost the entire thing. My question though is what should I do regarding the Aluminum for the frame. It seems like that Star Bee gyros is a pretty high priced location for raw materials. If anyone can offer some information as to what I should farm out and what I should purchase from star bee lemme know. I am excited about flying and cant wait. FYI I am going to my first PRA meeting tonight near my home town and expect to get some good information from those guys too. They do not own any Bees unfortuatly but they are an experienced bunch. Thanks for any help w/ my bee and advice on purchasing.

[scottessex]

Wicks aircraft supply has the best prices on 6061t-6 square tube. DO NOT BUY 6063 aluminum! it is cheaper, but it is only 1/2 the strength.
Don't skimp on the bolts and hardware either! Aircraft spruce has just about everything else you need, along with wicks.
www.aircraftspruce.com
www.leadingedgeairfoils.com
http://www.wicksaircraft.com/

[LGoodhind]

I've found aircraft spruce to be quick both to ship and return as well. I had a couple of pieces of scored tubing, and some rudder pedals that weren't appropriate and they replaced both with no questions.

Given the cost of the rotor and engine compared to the cost of everything else you may find that a raw materials savings evaporate quickly if you have problems with the vendor.

[RotoTony]

For small orders try ( online metals .com)
Tony

[John Stahl]

Would you buy from companies such as Pacific Steel?

[scottessex]

Just be carefull and make sure if you order 6061t-6 that it is "dye marked" It will be marked by the manufacturer with type, batch #, maufacture date etc. If it is not marked Don't use it.
I checked with Aircraft spruce, and they don't sell 6061t-6 in 2" square, just 6063
Wicks does sell it, Just call them and ask, or send them an E-Mail and ask if thier alum is dye marked.

[Brian Jackson]

I purchased my raw tube, angle and plate stock from Wicks. Great service too. The whole bill came in at just over $300 for the entire ship, minus the Stainless Steel plate, which they don't stock. I'm purchasing machined items such as the saddle blocks, nosewheel block, axles and tube brackets from StarBee. It's cheaper than farming them out to a machine shop, plus they have those parts already in stock.

[GyroRon]

How much more would it be to buy the aluminum from Starbee? you know if you guys don't support them they might not bee around for long. They got to make money too!

[MrGrey]

I can respect that Starbee is a company trying to make a buck and I do plan on purchasing quite a few items from them but... I've gotta save money too! If the price was not so much higher than these other places I would buy it. 300$ compared to maybe a price 2-3 times that is a substantial saving.

p.s. I went to my first PRA meeting and I loved it! So long ski boat hello gyro!!
-Matt
PRA chapter 18

[Brian Jackson]

Welcome, Matt.
This Thread (http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3638) has a couple of raw material layouts that I did that might help you in cutting and ordering. The plate stock was originally for 2 Bees, but the tube & angle cut-sheet was just for my own Bee. Note that you have a couple of choices in Mast tubing as well: Single-tube (3/16" wall) or Redundant-tube (1/8" wall). The thicker, single-tube design is becoming very popular, and your source for this tubing is StarBee. It also simplifies fabrication. The cut-sheet shows the redundant mast, but it's a matter of personal preference.

[MrGrey]

Thank you for the information that will be an incredible help. Does that preliminary
cut sheet entail everything for the entire gyro correct? (minus rotor head, wheels, and hardware) If I wanted the single-tube I would just subtract that from my list correct? Seems like a deal for all of that. I am getting so excited and I have saved for a year and now I decided the ski boat is not going to get my saved funds the gyro gets them. Hopefully by late summer I could be airborne.

[gyroplanes]

Matt,
Nice to meet you at the chapter 18 meeting last night. Sorry we spent so much time on the logo items and T-shirt / hat selection process. Boring stuff like that, while necessary, tends to turn off newcomers.


Maybe in the excitement of it all it got past you, but our club's president, Adam Helwich, built a 'Bee gyro and is currently learning to fly it.

6061-T6 is available at a great price from Marmon-Keystone in Bolingbrook, IL. (?) I'm not certain if they sell retail or in small quantities, but they do stock what we need for gyros and it comes with certs.

[Brian Jackson]

Thank you for the information that will be an incredible help. Does that preliminary
cut sheet entail everything for the entire gyro correct? (minus rotor head, wheels, and hardware) If I wanted the single-tube I would just subtract that from my list correct?

Not quite. The cut sheet covers all of the tube, angle and plate parts that are detailed on Ralph Taggart's GyroBee documentation. Please read through the documentation very carefully several times, and ask lots of questions here on the forum.

What is not shown on the cut sheet are the saddle blocks, nosewheel block, joystick assembly, axles, engine mount, and all of the items you mentioned above. You're looking at around $7K+ to scratch build. And I definitely wouldn't recommend trying to have it completed by summer. Plan on at least Spring of next year. This is my first Gyro too, and there's a lot to learn about building techniques... it ain't a patio deck :)

Also, yes; if you went with the single mast, simply order that (2 X 2 X 3/16) tube from StarBee in lieu of the 2 (1 X 2 X 1/8) tubes on the cut sheet. For the other tubes & angles, you may wish to order an extra length of each, since most of us scrap a part or two due to mistakes or just practice.

Thanks,
Brian Jackson

[Eddie Woods]

The Dillsburg Aeroplane Works . Aircraft-Race car -Machine shop and Raw Materials
Charles T. Vogelsong Co. 114 Sawmill Road, Dillsburg,Pa.17019 Ph.# 717-432-4589
He will take cc. or ck. Ships out UPS five days a week .This is the best prices I have got from any one . Also will cut it to the size you want no charge .And carries all types of AN bolts & nuts , washers. Just a nice old guy .very very helpful . I hope this will help to save you a few bucks . THIS HOBBY AIN'T CHEEP !!! You just can't cut corners on you're hardware . BEST OF LUCK !! EDDIE

[Rick Whittridge]

I`ve been buying from Dillsburg for years.Great place for material!

[Brian Jackson]

Eddie & Rick,
Not to Hijack Matt's thread, but your source: "The Dillsburg Aeroplane Works", does he stock 1/8" stainless plate to your knowledge? That's the one item Wick's doesn't stock.

Much obliged,
Brian Jackson

[Eddie Woods]

Brian,
I would have to think so .He has a lot of stuff . I have only been in one of the shops .That was where the 6061-T6 and nuts and bolts are. But they have other buildings that his two helpers are going in and out of. Give him a call Monday . They are just good people . I think I paid about $30.00 for my 2x2 mast .
Hope this will help . Eddie

[Brian Jackson]

Brian,
I would have to think so .He has a lot of stuff . I have only been in one of the shops .That was where the 6061-T6 and nuts and bolts are. But they have other buildings that his two helpers are going in and out of. Give him a call Monday . They are just good people . I think I paid about $30.00 for my 2x2 mast .
Hope this will help . Eddie
Will do. Thank you Eddie.

[Frank Zarzycki]

Wicks is a very good supplier. I find out that Shapiro Supply is very good and fast shipping. I got all aluminum for my Dominator there. www.shapirosupply.com. There online catalog is up to date.

Frank

[Doug Riley]

I ordered from Dillsburg a couple times when I needed quickly to fill an AEROTEC order and the extruder was slow getting us our regular half-ton shipment. The quality of their "6061-T6" aluminum was disappointing -- it was gouged and scratched and not stencilled. They're superb for 4130, but order your main 6061 tubes somewhere else.

I would NOT use a single 2x2 mast on a Gyrobee. Because the mast is vertical (rather raked as it is on a Bensen-style machine), it bears a constant bending load. The extra fore-aft walls increase the mast's bending strength by about 20% -- a worthwhile addition.

Many commercial aluminum companies have a bad attitude when it comes to the quality of extrusions. They are used to seeing 2x2 used to frame up supermarket doors and don't want to know about the more critical structure that you are building. To them, 6063 is just fine, and they will not necessarily even state in writing that what you're getting is 6061-T6. Insist on written certification and stencilled material. If mailordering, make very sure that they agree to supply material that is scratch-free (the supermarkets aren't very picky about that issue, either).

I've had disputes with vendors over all these issues. These hassles and special requirements are why tubing supplied specifically for aircraft use costs more. IMHO, it's well worth the very few extra dollars to buy from places like Starbee.

[MrGrey]

Ok thank all of you for the information and I will definitly use any and all of it IF I decide to scratch build. I have a new question for anyone who can help out. I have come across a never flown Bee and Trailer for under 2000$. No motor, prop, or rotor blades... everthing else is there. Is it a good deal? The guy is getting rid of it because he can no longer fly. It is his fourth build and looks perfect. Is it worth jumping on?

[ToddP]

If the build quality is good its a great deal. If you don't buy it, I'm sure someone else here would love to see this deal.

[MrGrey]

Sorry to others interested but I will not be giving any info on the gyro, its location, or any info that could lead me in to a bidding war. I will for certain give the gentlemans information if I do not decide to purchase. I will have to ask the gentleman if he wishes to post his info on the site if I do not decide to purchase as well. Chances are that it sounded like a good deal and I think I am jumpin on it. I dont think I could scratch build and get a trailer included for his askin price. All I would need is rotors, prop, motor, and radio. My only problem is that it is a LONG drive to the gyro.... about 20 hours east of me. Probably 300$-400$ in gas alone.

[Doug Riley]

Todd's comment involves a HUGE "if." One of the problems with on-line plans is that unqualified builders who are isolated from any knowlegeable people can throw a frame together. Such amateur jobs can LOOK fine but have hidden flaws in the drilling process, selection of materials and so on. You really have to know that your builder is qualified before you can say the deal is or isn't good. A poorly built frame can easily be worthless. Buyer beware!

[Brian Jackson]

A big thing to check when you inspect the frame is to remove the bolts and check to see if any of the interior walls of the tubes have been scored by drilling too close. If there's any scoring at all, the tube is worthless and dangerous. But it sounds like the guy selling has had some building experience. Make sure the guy doesn't object to your taking the frame apart to inspect. It just shows that you're serious about safety.

Just my opinion.

Thanks,
Brian Jackson

[MrGrey]

Thanks for the information guys. I did find out a little more about the builder and found out he is a mechanical engineer for over 30 years and this is his fourth gyro he has built. Apparently the man still flys his other gyros. I will definitly take a closer look at the airframe once I go see it. Everything points to a successful buy and it seems worthy enough for me to drive the distance to see it.

[REDHORSE556CES]

Being a sign and signal technician for a local municipality puts me in a unique situation. I have access to sheets (some bent up pretty bad) of 6061-T6 aluminum up to 36" x 36" in .080 and sheets of .125 6061-T6 aluminum 22" by up to 8 feet. And, for othe projects around the house, I snag a small chunk now and then..