Celier back in business

[PTKay]

Recent news:


Flash News 4

While this website is under correction, we apologize for the possible mistakes, ommissions, erratums.
As visible on the HOME page, our new organization is now made.
We are currently busy for its completion.
We are preparing new technological developments, new bigger models specifically for the professional markets.

More to come on the news, stay tuned.

R. CELIER – CEO

http://www.celieraviation.eu/view/921-flash-news-4.html

[PTKay]

More on the Home page:

...The company in Poland, was first established with an associate named Artur Trendak, but for specific reasons, and after 5 years of cooperation, the company continues without him, but with new associates, such as:

MRT with Sir Rojkov (Russian large company)
Krzysztof Wronowski (former General Manager Free Fun)
Piotr Stepnicki (Director Technical)
Francois Celier (Diplomatic relations)

R.Celier

http://www.celieraviation.eu/view/24-home.html

[twistair]

MRT with Sir Rojkov (Russian large company)


Holy cow, RC already knighted Andrew Rozhkov... Next time he likely canonizes his next sponsor LOL :D

[PTKay]

Alex, you will always find something interesting.


...;)...

[CLS447]

Holy cow, RC already knighted Andrew Rozhkov... Next time he likely canonizes his next sponsor LOL :D

What does this mean ?

Are they importing any Xenons into the US anymore ?

Are they ever gonna offer kits ?

[PTKay]

More on the Home page:

...The company in Poland, was first established with an associate named Artur Trendak, but for specific reasons, and after 5 years of cooperation, the company continues without him, but with new associates, such as:

MRT with Sir Rojkov (Russian large company)
Krzysztof Wronowski (former General Manager Free Fun)
Piotr Stepnicki (Director Technical)
Francois Celier (Diplomatic relations)

R.Celier

http://www.celieraviation.eu/view/24-home.html

In the meantime the names of the associates disappeared from the home page.

[Steve_UK]

The Home Page says

""From all Raphael Celier designs and those 3 companies, more than 5 000 machines have been produced.
Without a single fatal accident. ""


Not correct - Chilean Xenon CC-PTP - had a fatal accident 27-3-2011 near Melipilla, Chile.


Regards

Steve

http://xenongyroblog.blogspot.com/

[bones]

The Home Page says

""From all Raphael Celier designs and those 3 companies, more than 5 000 machines have been produced.
Without a single fatal accident. ""


Not correct - Chilean Xenon CC-PTP - had a fatal accident 27-3-2011 near Melipilla, Chile.


Regards

Steve

http://xenongyroblog.blogspot.com/

While this is technically true, you could hardly blame a machine of any type for the death of a pilot who (from my findings) had a heart attack(or similar type of seizor) whilst flying can you???

[Steve_UK]

The conclusion of the Chilean accident report is "indeterminada" - ie indeterminate

Thankfully the Chileans understand the importance of publishing such accident reports on the WWW - accident reports are a great source of insight and hopefully help save others.

The large Chilean accident file can be download here - it is in Spanish - see accident number 1584 - lots of detail, weather, flight plan, servicing, pilot experience etc, lots of images too.

http://www.dgac.gob.cl/portal/page?_pageid=315,428969&_dad=portal&_schema=PORTAL

The quote on the CA website is factually incorrect.

If this fatal accident had happened in Australia then this report would not be publically available.

The Australian ATSB ( transport safety ) does make publically available gyro accident reports up to 1996 - from this point on a casual browser might assume the years have passed accident free.

https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/safety-investigation-reports.aspx?mode=All&q=gyro


I *understand* that since 1996 ASRA ( gyro org in Aus ) has investigated and reported on gyro accidents - these reports do not *appear* to be in the public domain - this is a real shame as knowledge promotes safety. Why are they not in the public domain ? I can think of several possible reasons but none of them reflect well on organisation.


Thankfully the US NTSB, the UK AAIB, French BEA, Polish ULC, German BFU and many nations including Chile do publish such accident reports.

News reports for recent Australian gyrocopter accidents can be found on the WWW thanks to Australian TV/Newspapers - these of course are mere "news" reports so do not cover the factual investigative findings. A summary of these ( plus a few Cornoers Reports ) can be found here - the ASRA reports do not *appear* to be available.

http://gyrocopteraccidentsinaustralia.blogspot.com/


Let's hope the report for the recent fatal accident at Mangalora, VIC ( Kruza gyro ) is made publically available.


Regards


Steve

[PTKay]

Steve,

thanks for the link. Very interesting and informative.

Not taking sides, and accepting that factually CA web page is wrong,
the question is, what kind of machine crashed in Chile.

From the earlier post on this forum and from the report we know,
that the engine was a 914 modified with fuel injection, so certainly
not original Xenon engine.

Also, if you look on the images on page 30 of the report,
you can clearly see, that this is not original Xenon rotor and hub.

http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=90783&d=1330535211

It remains to be proven what else, except for cabin and tail,
remained original on this machine. It certainly was substantially modified.

[Jason O]

It looks like a Sport Copter head to me. As I recall, some time ago on the list Master Roda was flaunting the fact that someone put a S/C head on a Xenon and the fact that the Xenon designer was not too thrilled about it. Could it be that one?

Steve,

thanks for the link. Very interesting and informative.

Not taking sides, and accepting that factually CA web page is wrong,
the question is, what kind of machine crashed in Chile.

From the earlier post on this forum and from the report we know,
that the engine was a 914 modified with fuel injection, so certainly
not original Xenon engine.

Also, if you look on the images on page 30 of the report,
you can clearly see, that this is not original Xenon rotor and hub.

http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=90783&d=1330535211

It remains to be proven what else, except for cabin and tail,
remained original on this machine. It certainly was substantially modified.

[Master Roda]

It looks like a Sport Copter head to me. As I recall, some time ago on the list Master Roda was flaunting the fact that someone put a S/C head on a Xenon and the fact that the Xenon designer was not too thrilled about it. Could it be that one?

It is a Sport Copter head. The owner of the machine was a friend of mine. His machine is not the only one with the conversion. All owners with the conversion are happy.

You want to speculate the cause of that crash? First notice the blades and head are still attached. The mast is not.......


PS JASON.....when did I "flaunt" as you say?

[Jason O]

Here is the link to the thread,

http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24713&highlight=xenon+sport+copter&page=3

I am sorry for the loss of you friend.

Jason


It is a Sport Copter head. The owner of the machine was a friend of mine. His machine is not the only one with the conversion. All owners with the conversion are happy.

You want to speculate the cause of that crash? First notice the blades and head are still attached. The mast is not.......


PS JASON.....when did I "flaunt" as you say?

[Master Roda]

Here is the link to the thread,

http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24713&highlight=xenon+sport+copter&page=3

I am sorry for the loss of you friend.

Jason

I guess I don't consider that "flaunting" but then again, this way of communicating lacks emotion that may be interpreted differently.

In any case. This person did alot of modifications as he was not happy with the design (cracked mast,sloppy rotorhead,etc). Raphael bought prerotator parts from us and duplicated the design to some extent. When we wouldn't reveal our sources for parts, he got mad.

It is my personal opinion that my friend suffered a heart attack, but I wasn't there.

[Greg Mitchell]

Sorry for your loss Jon.
Many of us here in Oz are still mourning the loss of a great friend and aviator.

See you just before the 4th of July, on the 3rd if that works for you.

Mitch.

[Greg Mitchell]

Hey PT,

So is there now two Xenon manufacturers?. How does it all work?

Cheers,

Mitch

[karlbamforth]

You want to speculate the cause of that crash? First notice the blades and head are still attached. The mast is not.......

MasterRoda,

Why do you say the mast is not attached ? or maybe I misunderstood your comment.

I don't speak Spanish but it seems to say there was no evidence of mechanical failure, implying that any mast damage was attributed to the crash.

The pictures also show the head and blades to be in the vicinity of burnt wreckage which indicates it was with the main fuselage at the point of impact.

[bones]

Hey PT,

So is there now two Xenon manufacturers?. How does it all work?

Cheers,

Mitch
Only 1 Mitch so i understand

[PTKay]

So is there now two Xenon manufacturers?. How does it all work?


Only 1 Mitch so i understand

Effectively, bones is right,

One of the dealers, for the Czech market, claims on his web page,
he represents two companies: Aviation Artur Trendak and Celier Aviation.

http://virniky-celieraviation.eu/

I don't know, what the other dealers do or claim.

But, a.f.a.i.k. CA has not established production yet,
so, effectively and technically only AT is manufacturing
and selling Xenons at the moment.

As you can read elsewhere on this forum, he also delivers spares
and does the service.

There is still a legal argument between the two,
the outcome unknown.

[Master Roda]

MasterRoda,

Why do you say the mast is not attached ? or maybe I misunderstood your comment.



Tongue in cheek friend. That's why I said "speculate". That's what ALWAYS happens here. No facts, just guessing.
My friend fixed his mast (another unapproved mod) after it cracked (broken) with reinforced brackets. Lucky for him (at the time) he found it in pre-flight checks. I'm still guessing his health failed him.

Jon

PS there's a reason Artur is changing the design (mast.suspension,etc) (as read from his website).

[Arnie Madsen]

Has anyone else heard that Celier will be using a Yamaha engine in future Xenons ?

Back in January I read about it somewhere. I will trying to find the article again

Edit found the article http://www.celieraviation.eu/view/101-xenon-3.html
(Thanks PTK)

[PTKay]

They tested, check the forum...

[karlbamforth]

Tongue in cheek friend. That's why I said "speculate". That's what ALWAYS happens here. No facts, just guessing.
My friend fixed his mast (another unapproved mod) after it cracked (broken) with reinforced brackets. Lucky for him (at the time) he found it in pre-flight checks. I'm still guessing his health failed him.

Jon

PS there's a reason Artur is changing the design (mast.suspension,etc) (as read from his website).

Ohhh Ok Jon,

I have been involved in accident investigation for a number of years and my brain automatically starts to look for things when I see a picture like those. I just wondered if you knew something that I had missed.

I know they are changeing the design of the mast, but as far as I know none have come away in flight yet. Xenon are not he only ones suffering cracks in primary structure, many helis have a problem, fixed wing too and even new airliners from some of the biggest companies have similar issues.

[Master Roda]

Xenon are not he only ones suffering cracks in primary structure, many helis have a problem, fixed wing too and even new airliners from some of the biggest companies have similar issues.

Its true, I've seen other gyros (not naming brands) that suffer the same early fatigue in primary structures.

It's funny, I would rather step into one of the gyros here at the shop than fly a commercial airliner. Mostly because I'm the one doing the preflight :)