USAAC Autogiro School HQ

[kolibri282]

USAAC Autogiro School HQ - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hCOzuo5Re4&feature=related)

Have fun!

Juergen

[Resasi]

That was fabulous Juergen, thanks for sharing.

[JAL]

How good is that gyro! Why are there not modern versions of these.

That looked like a vertical descent into a hover then land. As my kids would say Awesome.

Great post

[mark treidel]

That should be part of every gyro museum on the globe.
Great find.

[joe nelson]

I noticed something in the openning credits. It said that Patterson Field was in Fairfield, Ohio. It's really located in Fairborne, Ohio. FYI, lol. Thanks for posting, Juergen.

[scottessex]

SWEET! I like very much!

[WaspAir]

That looked like a vertical descent into a hover then land. As my kids would say Awesome.


A friend of mine who owns the Kellett company archives says the full film shows that it was a windy day, so the hover effect is a little misleading. It looks like fun nonetheless.

[gyroplanes]

Captivating. Thanks so much for sharing.

[hillberg]

Thanks, That was great.

[kolibri282]

A friend of mine who owns the Kellett company archives says the full film shows that it was a windy day

Uhmm.. WaspAir... if your friend should ever consider hosting the film somewhere I am sure Mike would make some disk space available on the rotaryforum server....;-)
Seriously, I think many people are interested in e.g. the handbooks that used to be delivered with aircraft. Are the Kellet gyro handbooks available or does your friend consider offering digital versions of these one day?

[WaspAir]

I don't know whether any manuals are included in his documentation; my impression from having seen a few of the films (but not reviewed more than a handful of the paper documents) is that there are engineering, development, testing, and publicity materials there, but I don't know about customer documents such as flight manuals. I can certainly ask him.

[WHY]

WoW, this was 19?? . Makes me wonder just how far we have come. Wonder if that "big Iron" would sell in the market today :) :)

Tony

[kolibri282]

Wonder if that "big Iron" would sell in the market today

I bet it would. Flug Werk GmbH has sold 20 FW-190 replicas and is working on a Bücker 131 and a P-51....

http://www.flugwerk.de/html/page.php?GID=20&SID=5

[WHY]

That's quite interesting Jurgen, It would be interesting to do a fantasy - fairytail gyro, we could start by throwing out all reason and logic and just start designing. Like where would the engine come from, the engine on those gyros look a lot like the engines on the old Stearman PT-17 which I think was a Continental 220 hp so they have been out of production for a while :). The only one I know of now is maybe Russian or the PZL so it looks like the engine would come from Europe. The fuselage is rag and tube and there is not many with those skills here in the States, so that may be done in Europe as well and for sure you are not going to get anyone here in the States to manufacture a rotorhead because of liability (I doubt anyone will spend the money to go thru certification) so that will probably be Europe or Asia, and I imagine the rotor blades will likewise come out of Europe as well--------Gosh it looks like the only hope these would ever get produced would be in Europe :) :)

Tony

[buckwill]

of the boeing 75s,, PT13/17,, 61 had J5 wright whirlwind,, 150 had 755 shaky jakes,,, the rest were R670 continental or R680 lycoming,, in 1990s YAK i russia built new Yak3/9s with allison V1710, the ivchenko AI14 VedeneyevM14p developed 360 to 450 hp with weight of 472 lbs with 623 cubic inches 10.2 liters, the russian, polish, chinese versions had air start, american improvements are electronic ignition, electric start,, viewed from cockpit they turned counterclockwise with paddle blade prop,,,,buck

[WHY]

OK----Anyone know what size engines those are on those gyros ??

Tony

[WaspAir]

Other web sources say it's a Jacobs R-915 (15 liters) (300+ hp). There was a variant (A4) with a drive shaft for rotor spin up.

P.S. I'm puzzled why someone would think that we lack tube and fabric expertise in the U.S. and that more could be found in Europe. That's not what I see at fly-ins, EAA gatherings, and at the airports I visit.

[WHY]

Hi JR

That was just a conclusion that I have about Europe seems to place more emphasis on trades and skills than here in the US. I know we have people with those skills here, but do we have that many ?

Tony

[bmoore2156]

Very impressive. Its a tandem with a 200+ hp engine, three bladed rotor system and almost fully enclosed thats weights 400 lbs.. And we have trouble making one thats 254 lbs and bare bones..
Brad

[WaspAir]

Very impressive. Its a tandem with a 200+ hp engine, three bladed rotor system and almost fully enclosed thats weights 400 lbs.. And we have trouble making one thats 254 lbs and bare bones.

Are we still talking about the Kelletts shown in the film? Dry weight on that engine alone is 555 pounds. My sources suggest that the empty weight was 1580 pounds, and the gross weight was 2250. It's a very large aircraft when compared to homebuilt Bensen-style gyros, with a 40' diameter rotor.

P.S. I went back and listened carefully to the narrator on the film, and I'm pretty sure he says "TWENTY-four hundred pounds".

[kolibri282]

Gosh it looks like the only hope these would ever get produced would be in Europe
One reason why the FW-190 project was launched is probaly that there were none left, you in the US have so many P-51s and 40s 38s and the like that there is not such a big need to build new ones. The Buecker 131 is interesting. I think they choose it because it has a unique reputation as an airplane that can do aerobatics (limited by engine power) and is a very well behaved aircraft at the same time.

And yes, Tony, it's a marvelous dream to imagine seeing a KD-1 take to the skies again.....sighhhh.....;-)

As for skill I think Germany has a real advantage. We have a system - that has deveolped over about 150 years or so - where companies and schools work together to give formal training in different trades to as many young people as possible (some alas just can't seem to get their a$$ moving) and of course the trade unions support this system as well and try to bring companies who do not train young people to do so. So we have a pretty large, well trained work force.

[WHY]

Hi Jurgen

Yes, it is that trade skills program that makes me think as I do. On one encouraging note, the small town (13000) where I live has a small college and about 8 mile outside of town there is a small "tech/trade school/college" . This year the trade school/college went to maximum enrollment :) :)

Tony

[buckwill]

the rocker box covers w/4 hold down nuts, pushrod tubes and exh off the back of the cylinders,,, after looking at the engines used, says that these engines are the 755A jacobs, shaky jakes,, at the start of the video the voicer said these autos had 225 horseowers,, kellet site said 6 were re-engined with 915C 300 hundred horsepower engines

[buckwill]

check out kellet K-1X, british pathe film, it sez tey had szekely 40 hp then re engined to 65 hp velie radial

[kolibri282]

there is a small "tech/trade school/college" .
Tony, could you please post a link to the home page, I'd like to have a look at what they offer. My wife is a teacher at a German trade college and she is interested in what is going on in other countries.

Thanks,

Juergen

[WHY]

Hi Jurgen

The website for the small tech school near my town is under this title www.netech.edu it is one of 3 or 4 schools in different locations but under one education program. The one nearest me is in Fairland, Oklahoma, about 8 miles from Miami, Oklahoma. Different locations offer different programs.

Tony

[kolibri282]

Very interesting to read the curriculum. In Germany most any formation for a trade is three years and the students get paid by the companies at which they got a job as a trainee. My son has started in a Siemens trainee program where he will learn all sorts of metal working (milling + turning + CNC... the lot) and get a degree in mechanical engineering at the same time. He's paid €800 per month by Siemens (that actually is the wage the students who just learn the trade get as well). I hope that more German companies will realize that Germany's wealth depends on its engineers and skilled workers and that this small sum will result in a great return on investment.

[WHY]

Hi Jurgen

As you will note, not all of the curriculum is a "trade skill" but some more or less social or personal training. The whole world should have "trade/skill" training patterened after the German concept. We would sure have better manufacturing structure here if we did !!!

Thanks for your reply.

[WHY]

Was very supprised when I watched this film, I had always thought the outer stabilizers on the KD-1 were "active/movable" it appears that only the small center one is actually the active rudder and the outside stabilizers are ridgid or non-active

Tony

[WHY]

Jurgen

In this country right now the manufacturing industry is "DESTITUTE DESPERATE" for machinist who have the skills to operate MANUAL lathes and mill, as in NOT CNC.

There is such a scaricity of this type machinist that many factories farm out there prototype and short run machine work because they cannot find machinist to run the manual machines and the small machine shops that do the manual type machines are desperate to hire QUALIFIED machinist. Have seen some that have graduated out of some Vo-tech classes in highschool that could not read a blueprint , yet graduated !!!!

If Gernamy wants to see what it's like to NOT TRAIN TRADE SKILLS just come over here, we have the perfect example and economy to back it up. Jobs do not necessarily go to Asia because of the "cheap labor", the jobs also follow where the engineeres and scienctist are.

Tony