Celier out of business [Archive]

Vance

12-21-2011, 02:00 AM

Hello Christen,

I see from your profile that you are the Xenon importer for Germany and Switzerland.

I infer from the happy face you are pleased with the change.

Did you have disagreements with Mr. Celier?

Do you feel this management change at Xenon will enhance your business?

Thank you, Vance

PTKay

12-21-2011, 02:03 AM

SixPack, first read, then write... :)

http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32302

You are completely new to this forum, (at least regarding your postings)
so we would appreciate, you would
introduce yourself in a proper way.

You are not "Xenon importer for Germany and Switzerland",
you are "former Xenon importer for Germany and Switzerland".

Or maybe I do not know about something.

Then you should inform us about your business relations with the Xenon manufacturer,
whoever you think it is.

SixPack

12-21-2011, 06:22 AM

""""You are not "Xenon importer for Germany and Switzerland",
you are "former Xenon importer for Germany and Switzerland".
Or maybe I do not know about something."""

Dear PTkay,

I have never claimed that I am importer of xenon ! right ! Sorry my profile was old , its updated

But get it right, I was until 2010 the German and Swiss Xenon dealer.
I had all the German rights on xenon in germany, after Norbert Braun.

myself have been 3 Xenon, and I currently fly a Xenon R, i like it.

more on this and why I've stopped all that, soon

Best regards

SixPack

pictures from my xenon

PTKay

12-21-2011, 06:25 AM

Sorry, Christian,
Vance an me, we took the information from your profile:

About SixPack

Total Flight Time
200
Aircraft
Xenon II
Biography
Xenon Importeur for German
and switzerland
Real Name
Christian Ried
Location
Munich
Ratings
Gyrocopter and Trike
Occupation
avioniker
Primary Airport
EDMY near Munich

You might wish to correct it, if it is 1 year old.

SixPack

12-21-2011, 06:28 AM

Dear PTKay,

you are right, now i have my profile updated ! Thanks for the info !

PTKay

12-22-2011, 12:06 PM

http://www.celieraviation.eu/view/916-flash-news.html

--FLASH NEWS--

*Due to a deep re-structuration of the company, I will publish here under the next 72 hours a world publication, about it.

R. Celier – President.*

MAK

12-26-2011, 07:25 AM

I see still no statement from Mr Celier as promised.

PTKay

12-27-2011, 02:19 AM

MAK, but something has changed...

http://www.celieraviation.eu/view/916-flash-news.html

--FLASH NEWS--

Due to a deep re-structuration of the company, I will publish here under the next 72 hours a world publication, about it.
It is worth to wait.
R. Celier – President.

Heron

12-30-2011, 09:21 AM

I wish he decided to come to Brazil with his products!
Maybe in 2012 . . .
But most of manufacturing and assembly should be done here, import tax and Europrices are an impediment!
Happy New Year to all around Xenon, a great gyro!
Heron

MAK

12-30-2011, 09:46 PM

.... and yet another 72 hours pass without response.

Brent_Brown

12-30-2011, 09:54 PM

I don't see an update? most be a two week thing

PTKay

01-03-2012, 06:33 AM

From the RC web page:

Flash News 2

I have available at specific request by email, a letter of information for end of collaboration with Artur TRENDAK and his actual company.
Next news of the new Company will follow very soon.

R. CELIER

http://www.celieraviation.eu/view/918-flash-news-2.html

PTKay

01-03-2012, 06:50 AM

RotorTom published the letter:

http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32523

Steve_UK

01-03-2012, 07:07 AM

Hi

Interesting.

So it appears that at this moment you can order a new Xenon either from the new Artur company autogyro.eu ( I don't like this name - toooooo similar to "autogyro gmbh" ) or place your order with Raphael and his soon to be established new production site near Warsaw city.

In addition there was a suggestion recently of production in Russia in the near future ( F.A.T ).

Will the KISS make a re-appearance at some point too.

In a competitive business place the other rival manufacturers will no doubt try to exploit this situation.

2012 will certainly be interesting.

Regards

Steve

Vance

01-03-2012, 07:38 AM

As is often the case with R. Celier I see the words but the meaning eludes me.

It appears to me there has been a relationship challenge that will in an uncertain way affect the production of the gyroplane we currently know as Xenon.

I am grateful to be a spectator rather than a participant.

I hope someone can find a way to support the existing customer base and continue to improve this gyroplane.

I enjoyed my ride in a Xenon with a skilled aviator.

Thank you, Vance

bones

01-03-2012, 04:08 PM

I have had email contact with viarious members involved with all this, there is nothing to be worried about if you have a Xenon or are thinknig about a Xenon.
That is all i can say at the moment, i will not comment any further UNTIL Artur releases a formal business release as i told them.
But the important thing is i feel this is a great move forward.

twistair

01-03-2012, 06:55 PM

UNTIL Artur releases a formal business release as i told them.

That's promising. It's often worth to listen to alternate viewpoint.
I wonder who is now providing Xenon owners technical support these days :der:

Timchick

01-03-2012, 07:10 PM

It's not uncommon for the founders or creators of products to be pushed out of the companies they founded because they are not best suited to market their creations/products. If this is the case it may not be such bad news for the gyro community.

bones

01-03-2012, 07:10 PM

That's promising. It's often worth to listen to alternate viewpoint.
I wonder who is now providing Xenon owners technical support these days :der:
More than likely the same guys who were providing it before :first: :typing:

twistair

01-03-2012, 07:27 PM

More than likely the same guys who were providing it before

Goog one, Mark :D Last three months I fly a Xenon and none of my technical questions were answered from there (I didn't contact them myself, gyro owner did).

bones

01-03-2012, 09:25 PM

Goog one, Mark :D Last three months I fly a Xenon and none of my technical questions were answered from there (I didn't contact them myself, gyro owner did).

I always been able to get all my questions answered, within a resonable time frame.

PTKay

01-03-2012, 10:15 PM

I kindly remind you of our discussion few months ago.

http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/sho...dak#post410941

I already then (March 8th, 2011, 04:31 PM), in public, informed everybody about the legal situation:

Tom, I appreciate your comments.
You made your own experience with Xenon and Raphael first hand.

I am far from "making Raphael a saint".
What I know is, that within 5 years of his and Artur activity in Poland
they sold over 125 aircraft, 97% of it for export, and created almost 40 jobs
in the region where I live. And this is something in the time of crisis.

BTW: look carefully on the certificate he published.
The commercial name of the company is "Celier Aviation",
but followed by the name of Artur Trendak, and his home address
in Michałowice, not the factory address. (Everybody can check it.)

I checked the legal situation, and formally the company is just
the personal business of Artur Trendak, from his home address.

I don't know the formal relations between Raphael and Artur,
I just read the certificate, and Raphael, besides his name in the logo,
has nothing to do with it.

It would be interesting to me to know, when you were buying your Xenon,
who was selling it to you, who signed the papers then?

PTKay

01-10-2012, 03:53 AM

http://www.celieraviation.eu/news/420-news.html

Flash News 3

We shall publish this week the full new organigram of the company, with the organization, program etc.
We will be in position to take orders in a matter of few weeks from now.
We are establish in a new facility near Warsaw / Poland, providing better access, 5 times the space, ultra modern equipments.

Thanks for your patience,

Raphael Celier

twistair

01-10-2012, 08:47 AM

So the main news is that there still are no news :noidea: :D

PTKay

01-10-2012, 08:56 AM

So the main news is that there still are no news :noidea: :D

Yes. At the moment, yes. :)

ckurz7000

01-10-2012, 09:48 AM

After a big drum roll on Dec 22:

--FLASH NEWS--

*Due to a deep re-structuration of the company, I will publish here under the next 72 hours a world publication, about it.

The "world news" after 456 hours is that there is no news yet. Great.

-- Chris.

twistair

01-10-2012, 10:00 AM

Anybody taking bets whose real news on Xenon future appear first: RC, AT or third party?
10 bucks for draw :lol:

Steve_UK

01-10-2012, 10:41 AM

Hi

I'll put my money on AT making a delivery soon.

Steve

PTKay

01-10-2012, 10:58 AM

Steve,

AT took down-payments from several customers.
He has to deliver soon, so there is no bet. :)

If he will not deliver, he will be in deep trouble.
As well as his customers...

:(

twistair

01-10-2012, 11:23 AM

C'mon Paul, tell us more :)

I'm particularly interested if there is a chance to order separate Xenon's cabin from AT, RC or third party for a certain experiment.

But mostly I'm interested who will provide customer support for Xenon owners since I'm now flying Xenon among other gyros and its' owner has no technical manuals for it other than poor POH and not very informative engine maintenance manual. And they are in Polish language :(

Luckily I still remember some words ;) - got a chance to briefly learn language a bit those days when General Spawacz and shipyard electrician butted each other for the country.

Steve_UK

01-10-2012, 01:51 PM

Hi Alex,

Well I don't know the answer but I'd suggest it might be worth emailing Artur via his new email

artur@autogyro.eu

Good Luck

Steve

twistair

01-10-2012, 08:32 PM

Steve,

Thanks for the advice. For some reasons I'd prefer owner does this himself, I'll suggest him.

PTKay

01-11-2012, 04:48 AM

C'mon Paul, tell us more :)

Sorry, Alex, the situation is changing every day.
Once it is stabilized, the due information will be probably
released by the parties directly involved.

As I already mentioned in March (see post above)
legally nothing has changed. Just the web page and addresses.

So the suggestion by Steve is valid.

BTW, I would ask a few question too.

Who sold the Xenon to your friend?
Whom he signed the purchase contract with?
Is this not the person he should get in touch with?

twistair

01-11-2012, 04:57 AM

They contacted directly Mr.RC while buying this Xenon and after that. When I started to operate this machine (none of owners fly gyro currently, they're just learning) I prepared a bunch of technical questions which they forwarded to RC. I did this some times since it's a bit tricky to operate flying machine without any tech info on it. No one technical answer came back though I believe my questions were simple and usual. This lack of information also made it difficult to prepare needed paperwork to get airworthiness cert here.

PTKay

01-11-2012, 05:04 AM

Hard to give a good answer.
Keep trying.
A lot has changed.

RotorTom

01-11-2012, 06:47 AM

Dmorris

01-11-2012, 02:58 PM

I e-mailed the factory early last week about ordering a part. I received a prompt reposnse, within 24 hours, stating the part was not in stock but would be soon.

I was pleasantly surprised with the response.

dinoa

01-12-2012, 01:49 AM

My experience of a few years ago was similar to those of twistair and rotortom's.

Dino

fara

05-17-2012, 10:56 PM

This is not uncommon. The factory has never been all that responsive to consumers. I knew that years ago. I do not believe this recent split has anything to do with it. That is just Raphael's way. "Ignore and it will go away."

Hmmm ... interesting. I have been in touch with Artur since we had lunch with a common friend who introduced us in Germany (Aero Expo). He seemed like a nice guy. I don't find him unresponsive. If anyone has any question for him, I'd be glad to pass it along and get the answer.

This rather Soap Opera like situation between Celier and Artur is quite entertaining to read about. Unfortunately I know how that goes in light aircraft business. Generally it has to do with extra large egos. When you are a part of a team, there is barely room for such things. In this niche business, there is no time for such things either.