Reversing hands on controls?

[twistair]

Recently I was invited to fly Xenon gyros and after trying it owners asked me if I could instruct on it.
Xenon has only one throttle lever which is between pilots so left guy must control stick with left hand and throttle with right one which looks weird for me. I flew some hours in this gyro to the moment but did this in the right seat so controls were familiar.
Yesterday I tried to make it in the left seat and... it was a complete hair raising. Right after nose wheel rised at take-off my hands immediately started to do something so inadequate that it was a very close to a disaster. I think I was simply lucky not trashing the thing.
Somebody at the airfield took a video of this rodeo, I haven't seen it yet but will publish on youtube when they give it to me. Gang told it was something special and I feel myself I was very close to the edge. Finally gyro escaped hard meeting to the Globe, made a pattern and landed. The rest of the day I flew from the right seat without any problems.
Talking to some experienced helo pilots after that I knew that in helicopter training it is demostrated by experienced CFIs how fast things may get bad when collective is in your left hand.
Is there anybody here with any ideas about how critical is this for gyros? I think I should spent more time on the ground adopting my brains to this new attitude. And then to continue this at altitude first.
On the other side my best (and strongest) guess at the moment is not to play with tiger's tail and to make second - usual - throttle lever for the left seat and to fly as usual...
Any input on the subject will be warmly appreciated.
For those who interested - I asked same question at helicopter part of UK forum (http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/470286-reversing-hands-controls.html).

[hillberg]

I would add a second throttle too.

[barnstorm2]

I fly my wifes plane from the right side very often.

It has the stick in the center (y-stick) and throttle on the right side for right pilot and left side for left pilot.

It took me some time to get used to this arrangement and I don't recommend anyone trying this without a pilot in the left seat for the first few hours at least.

Also, I often fly my gyro with my left hand when taking photos, this has also taken a good bit of practice.

After time you can become confident and competent flying "left handed".

I still fly better right handed but I no longer hesitate to fly in the right seat, it just takes practice and knowing the bounds of your skill.

.

[choppergabor]

Alex just add a second throttle! The controls do become an extension of your limbs but the brain needs to learn it first and it does not automatically reverses hands. It does separate different tasks by the sides. I have learned that too the hard way :)

[Vance]

At the risk of being slightly off track, when I road raced motorcycles for the Moto Guzzi/Ducati distributor I would race a Moto Guzzi in the sprint races and a Ducati in the endurance races. The Guzzi shifted up for down and the Ducati was down for down. Sometimes during the latter portion of the race when I was tired I would down shift the Ducati accelerating out of a fast turn. I was always quick to recognize my error but not before the motorcycle diverged from my intended path.

Based on this experience I would add another throttle.

All of the side by side gyroplanes I trained in had a throttle on the left for either side.

Thank you, Vance

[Gyro_Kai]

It is a matter of practice. I photograph or film with the right, because the controls of all cameras are that way. I did all the wrong things with my left on the stick, PIO and all the rest. Some say you need to consciously say "I now change my hands, left is cyclic, right is throttle."

Some people have no problem at all with the change. But again, you need to re-train.

Kai.

[WaspAir]

At the risk of being slightly off track, when I road raced motorcycles for the Moto Guzzi/Ducati distributor I would race a Moto Guzzi in the sprint races and a Ducati in the endurance races. The Guzzi shifted up for down and the Ducati was down for down. Sometimes during the latter portion of the race when I was tired I would down shift the Ducati accelerating out of a fast turn. I was always quick to recognize my error but not before the motorcycle diverged from my intended path.

Based on this experience I would add another throttle.

All of the side by side gyroplanes I trained in had a throttle on the left for either side.

Thank you, Vance
My 1973 Norton has the gear shift on the right, push down for higher gears.
My Suzuki has the gear shift on the left, pull up for higher gears.
Without some mental flexibility, for a Norton rider it is easy to stab the rear brake on the Suzuki instead of upshifting, or to bang-downshift instead of braking (and the reverse situation when transitioning the other way).

Shared power controls in the middle is the most common configuration in side-by-side seat airplanes, and everybody seems to cope pretty well. (The one exception I can recall of the 50+ types I've flown is a Robin 2160 that had dual throttles.) I have never liked flying "left seat" in most airplanes, because I have significantly better dexterity with my right hand, and that's the one I want to use for attitude control. I'm much happier and more precise with stick in the right. I have resolved that if I ever build an experimental airplane with side-by-side seating, I will set up the panel for right seat PIC.

[jcarleto]

It is just practice. I have a lot of right-seat time in a variety of machines. It is never easy the first time, but it is never as hard as learning to fly the beast from scratch either.

I treat flying from "an alternate position" the same way I treat flying a new aircraft. Test hops and the works. I believe if you treat second seat time as time in a new and different aircraft, you won't go far wrong. It is foolish to the point of dangerous to believe you can fly as well from any position in an aircraft if you have no time in that position.

[TJMay]

My RAF has a throttle on both sides of the left seat.

While training, my CFI always had his hand near his throttle, just in case.

Now, after 150+ hours, while flying solo I often switch hands just to get used to the stick in my left hand. I've gotten to he point now where it feels good but I still land with the stick in my right and the throttle in my left.

[JAL]

I learnt to fly with the right hand on the cyclic and when I started flying long ross country trips I would change to the left hand to give my right hand a rest and initially I was always suprised how difficult it was just to hold straight and level. Another interesting thing that would happen to me was that when flying left handed I would manage to excite the cyclic to the point of it being uncomfortable and would have to change back to right handed flying in which I would stop it almost instantly.

It took maybe 15 hours of flying before I could control the gyro equally well with both hands. This is after I got my ppl on cessna where you fly with the left and throttle with the right, flying either hand in aeroplane is easy but not in gyro.

I figure there is actually a lot of subconcious small co-ordinated inputs required to fly the gyro that requires muscle memory training that only comes after practice.

[Chuck Roberg]

I have flown a few 2-place gyros from both seats. I don't have a problem either way. I have also flown FW from either side with out a problem. But that's just me. I think it's just practice and repetition.

[Texasautogyro]

I learned to fly fixed wing with a left hand. Right hand on the throttle. I learned Gyro Left hand on the throttle. But put me into the Cessna right hand stick left hand throttle Its hard to do even when I do it in Gyro all the time. Its the brain learning game for sure.

[Redbaron]

other than the gyros I gotta say ditto. I can shoot pool left or right handed also.

I have flown a few 2-place gyros from both seats. I don't have a problem either way. I have also flown FW from either side with out a problem. But that's just me. I think it's just practice and repetition.

[Resasi]

Switching seats/ control hands is at first a partial re-learning process and reasonably quick, however twitchy and sensitive aircraft can make the process 'interesting' as Twistair found out.

I have switch cyclic hand without problem on the Hornet and not even thought about it, the first time I did it on the Bensen I got a very unpleasant shock. The rotor shake was such that I very swiftly went back to my right hand.

Now that the rotor on the Bensen has changed from a Rotorhawk to a Rotordyne/Layzelle and there is far less shake, it is manageable with the left hand but not as comfortable as the Hornet.

Never tried on any of the others.

[GyroCFI]

when I got checked out in the Xenon I flew in both sides and I had a couple hair raising moments when I flew from the left side. I eventually got it straight in my mind and felt comfortable in the left side, but it wasn't pretty at first either.

Don

[barnstorm2]

I figure there is actually a lot of subconcious small co-ordinated inputs required to fly the gyro that requires muscle memory training that only comes after practice.

That is exactly correct.

It is also why high time gyro pilots and instructors are the worst pilots for determining pitch stability, especally dynamic pitch stability.

Only a fixed stick test can remove the subconscious input.

Strangely on topic,

Last week at a bowling ally party I attended we all had to play a game with opposite hands.

Not one person, even the devoted regulars, managed to score over 100.

A real eye opener!

.

[twistair]

What is the difference between wise and clever: clever guy finds how to extricate from tough situation, while wise one simply never enters it.
I taught a lot from this thread, thanks to everyone sharing. Wish I asked before trying this...

[scottessex]

I concur! Yes it is different, you need to develop the "muscle memory" so you will do the correct things, it sure feels different, almost like starting over.
My old ironhead Harley sportster had the shifter on the right, foot brake on the left, and going from one bike to the other was never an issue after time. At first it could be a little hair raising.

[Arnie Madsen]

If my natural instincts were to have a gyro cyclic in my right hand , and throttle in my left , I would not want to change it. I have never flown in a powered gyro but at important times natural reflexes are vitally important. Those 4 seconds of automatic reaction in emergency situations are what saves us.

[ckurz7000]

Like most, I fly FW from the left hand seat with the left hand on the yoke and right hand on throttle. Flying from the right hand seat only poses a bit of a conscious difference on landing, when suddenly I sit right of the centerline and everything looks a bit different upon final and flare. Flying a gyro in tandem seating with either hand is not a problem at all.

To me, it's the shift in parallax when changing sides on a side-by-side configuration that I notice most.

-- Chris.