McCulloch J2

[Mike Nelson]

If there is anyone looking for accurate information on the McCulloch J2 please let me know. You may ask here or send me a private email message. I have owned N4364G since 1996 and it has been a true delight to own and fly. I have heard a lot of untrue statements about the J2, so I want to be sure to set the record straight. I even recently read in a International Aviation Magazine that the J2 does not have a baggage compartment (it does) and that it has dual collectives (it does not) and that it has a bad safety record (only one fatal accident caused by pilot error). So, if you want a straight answer from a J2 owner and commercial gyroplane pilot, please ask away.

Mike

[Heron]

Mike
I was talking with a pilot that tried the only J-2 in Brazil and he said that even at 80 mph he could not take off.
My only wild guess is that the rotor had a problem, maybe on assembly, he said the collective was working fine. RRPM was around 450 . . . ????
They parted that gyro and sold the engine, I will find out about the rest.
thanks
Heron

[Hognose]

What I have heard -- true or false -- is that maintenance is expensive and rotor system parts, which are life-limited, are getting hard to come by. I understand (perhaps mistakenly) that these are certified helicopter parts, shared with a helo population that is much larger than that of J2s.

You don't sound like a guy who's suffering from maintenance stress...

cheers

-=K=-

[Mike Nelson]

Heron and Kevin,

One of the annual inspection items and an A.D. is to check the pitch angle of the rotor blade whe the collective is up and in flight mode. It must be between 3.5 and 4.5 degrees, and mine is 4.1 If it is less than 3.5 or if the prerotation was not 500 rpm, or the pilot let the rotorspeed fall below 400rpm prior to rotation, the J2 will not fly. I have flown my J2 for 8 years and have never had a problem. I pre-rotate to 500rpm, let off the brakes and add full power (2700engine rpm) and rotate at 45 mph, then accelerated to 75-80 in ground effect and climb out at about 900fpm.

Yes, there are parts and many are standard aircraft parts. I just had the battery, compass and brakes replaced and all three were in stock at my local FBO. And yes the blades and transmission are of similar design as those on the Hughes 269A helicopter. My last annual was done by a first class FBO and was $915. The blades would be the most expensive, but I have seen brand-new (3) blades for $5,000.

It's a great ship if properly maintained and flown.

Mike Nelson

[Victor Duarte]

Mike, heron (ola) kevin, you may know that , but there is a complete page on the LAFLAMME helcopters site about J2 and A 18 . also an interesting video.
http://www.lafhelicopters.com/francais/company/history.htm
cheers

[RHerron]

Heron and Kevin,



Yes, there are parts and most are standard aircraft and Hughes helicopter parts. I just had the battery, compass and brakes replaced and all three were in stock at my local FBO. Yes the blades and transmission are from the Hughes helicopter. My last annual was done by a first class FBO and was $915. The blades would be the most expensive, but I have seen brand-new (3) blades for $5,000.

It's a great ship if properly maintained and flown.

Mike Nelson

Mike,

The blades are not helicopter blades. In fact, they will not work on a Hughes 269 helicopter because they will hit the tail rotor (!) as each blade is 4 inches longer. Another major difference is that they have no twist as do the Hughes blades. Therefore, the helicopter blades will not work on a J-2 either.

The transmission is much smaller than the helicopter transmission and is only good for about 25 hp continuous. It has a built-in rachet overrun instead of the sprague-type clutch used in the Hughes and is made by Shapiro. The main rotor stub shaft is different (and smaller) too and is not interchangeable.

The upper portion of the head is the same style as the Hughes but was built by Kaiser Aerospace instead of Hughes Tool Company.

The flapping, feathering and main bearings are the same as the helicopter.

The similarity of the rotor systems stems from the fact that Drago Javanovich designed both of them and the use of similar production processes expedited the certification process for the J-2 (it still took 10 years!).

[Mike Nelson]

RHeron says; "The similarity of the rotor systems stems from the fact that Drago Javanovich designed both of them and the use of similar production processes expedited the certification process for the J-2 (it still took 10 years!)."

Similar design but not interchangeable. Sounds good to me.

Thanks for the clarification Ron. Well, I have another 760hrs to go on the blades which would last me around 15 years which places me at the end of my flying days.

Mike

[Hognose]

Ron -- thanks for the fascinating details about the J-2! "Drago Javonavich..." LOL I think everybody who designed an early helicopter is Slavic... unless you count Leonardo. It would stand to reason that the helicopter blades would want a bit of twist and gyro blades would be neutral or even reverse, due to their autorotative regime vs. powered.

Yeah.. the FAA's one size fits all certification is not a fine thing... unless you are sitting at a GMD in OKC with one of those trees of rubber stamps next to you, counting the years to pension.

Mike -- can the J-2 do a jump takeoff, or do you always do the roller that you described here?

Thanks to both of you for teaching about this rare and interesting gyro!

cheers

-=K=-

[Mike Nelson]

Kevin,

Well, I have had a few days flying solo, 45 degrees, wind 20+, less than full fuel and had 5 to 50 foot take-offs. No jumps, but it aways gets up on its tippy-toes (oleo struts fully extended about 14") when the collective is raised up at the beginning of the take-off roll. It's also not unusual (on a good day w/ 2 on board) to gain 1,000 feet of altitude while still over the runway at AAO which is 6,100ft long and at 1,420' ASL.

Mike

[The Rock]

Kevin,

I resemble that remark regarding the FAA guy with the rubber stamps counting the years to pension.

Cliff Rock
FAA/ASH DENSECFO :D :D

[AirgyroAviation]

I have an article with pictures from the Popular science magazine, issue year 1969 that talks about the McCulloch J2 as the family gyro finally here!

The article is amazing, it talks about the gyro and all of its features. I am really impressed with the machine. It seems like a lot of time has gone by and the best gyros out there are barely competing with the stats the J2 touts!

I would love a flight in one of those! My Sparrowhawk rocks, but I would love some baggage room and the jump takeoff ability!

[Brent_Brown]

Not sure about a jump take off in the J2? Can it do one?

[Chuck_Ellsworth]

I did but with very little fuel and I only weigh 115 lbs. :D

Oh, by the way the rotor RPM decayed very fast and I had to abort the take off. :D

Chuck E.

[Mike Nelson]

Kevin,
See my previous post about Jump take-offs.

Nathan,
Do't be too impressed with the 1969 PS article. The hoped for 120mph cruise is really 95mph solo and 90mph dual and you can't get it in your garage and fly it out of your driveway to work. It is a solid aircraft, built like a tank. I fly in Kansas winds that average around 20mph and I have flown in max gust of 48mph with half of the bounce you get in an R22 helicopter. The 3 fully articulated blades provide for a very smooth flight and with no tail rotor to catch the gusts, its even better.

[Hognose]

I resemble that remark regarding the FAA guy...

Oh, ca-ca, and I bet you know guys in my FSDO too. OK, Cliff, I'll take my medicine, but for the love of God have mercy on the 135 and 145 certificates... the pilots and mechanics have kids to feed....

LOL

Cheers

-=K=-

[Hognose]

Mike, thanks for all the information. I can tell you really like the machine. Now, if only we can find someone who has flown the Umbaugh/Air and Space 18, and the Pitcairn.

These certified gyros are the subject of a lot of myths and legends.

I'm not surprised that Popular Science has the technical stuff all wrong. They always do. You should see the November 2004 issue which has a totally whacked article about the Mojave Aerospace Ventures (i.e. Scaled) X-Prize team... reads like something from Boy's Own Stories and the 'nauts are ... bemused?... by it. Then they have an article that includes Jay Carter and a number of other guys from the shady (Paul Moller) to the bizarre ideas (Attilla Melkuti) to some pretty mainstream folks (Barnaby Wainfan). The title of that article is Crackpot Aviators or something like that.

(Ah, here it is. "The Daring Visionaires of Crackpot Aviation." Boy, that's sure something you want to show your kids, eh? What garbage. http://www.popsci.com/popsci/aviation/article/0,20967,1006774,00.html )

Jeez, some of the guys I've been looking up to for years are actually refugees from It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World and I never would have known it if I didn't read Popular Science!

cheers

-=K=-

[Mike Nelson]

Kevin,

I have about 12 hours in the 18A. I'm not an expert on the aircraft, but could give you some basic info.

Mike

[AirgyroAviation]

I have another magazine Popular Mechanics from 1996 that on the cover is "Jet-Age Gyrocopters...Sky Scorchers you can build and fly up to 400 mph!" The cover shows a picture of the First Hawk Gyroplane designed and flown by Groen Brothers Aviation http://www.gbagyros.com. The article also highlights Carter Copters planes http://www.cartercopters.com

Cool stuff! I can't wait for my own 400 mph gyro!!!!!! :)

[Mike Nelson]

Nathan,

If you think about it, how could a gyro achieve 400mph? Rotor blades will not allow for flight much over 200mph. If Carter Copters or some one else plan to "park" or stop the blades and let wings take over in high speed flight, what keeps the stopped rotors from flapping around and/or creating a lot of drag? A gyro as we know it, even the concept aircraft on the drawing board today, won't ever reach 400mph. I'd say if you want to go straight up and fly like a jet, see if you can get a ride in a Harrier Jump Jet. It's nice to dream about, but I'm not holding my breath.

[pwendell]

Mike,

You're absolutely right. A 400mph gyroplane is impossible. The Groen Hawk 4 can go 150. The CarterCopter is not, technically, a gyroplane at all. It is a 'Convertiplane'. At low speeds it flies as a gyro, but at high speeds the wings take over and it flies like an airplane. They believe they can go 400mph and have done alot of work solving the problems you pointed out. Their website is a very interesting read.

[darrellwittke]

The Cartercopter website is an interesting read, www.Cartercopter.com, which I haven't looked at in awhile. Hope they get things going real soon, I am really interested in the blade weave at appx. 180 mph.

Just on a quick note (for the new person), Jay Carter's Cartercopter combines a very rotor-tip heavy rotor with small high-speed laminar flow wings on the gyro fuselage. The centrifugal force of the tip weights hopefully allows the rotors to stay strong and stiff enough to decelerate to appx. 100 RPM (1/27th the drag) while the wings take over transport of the fuselage at higher speeds (appx. over 200 mph.)

It's all on the website (or was) if anyone is interested, although it may take some time to digest.

Hey I just clicked on the website in this post to double check and came up with some computer page. Looks like cartercopter changed their website to www.Carteraviationtechnologies.com. Boy, my poor little fingers are wore out just typing the title!

[Mike Nelson]

Hey Guys,

How will Carter Copters stop and stow the rotors? If they stop them from right to left won't the leading edge on the advancing blade want to climb while the other decend? If the stop them from front to back won't they just flap up and down at 400mph? I guess I doubt they can make a blade stiff enough to stop and just "hang out there" in a 400 mph wind. ??????????????

[darrellwittke]

The rotor is slowed to appx. 100 rpm to maintain its centrifigal stiffening effect. If interested, peruse the FAQ's on their website which explain the idea and construction much better than I can.

There also was a constructive discussion with C. Beaty and others awhile back that may be enlightening (it was to me.)

Don't mean to hijack your thread about the J-2 though. Say, am I correct that the J-2 time can be logged towards a commercial ticket?

[Mike Nelson]

Darrel,

Sure. Hours in any make and model of gyro can be logged towards your time needed for a Commercial Gyro Rating, of course you need a Private Gyro rating first unless you already have a Commercial Helicopter Rating, then you can demonstrate proficiency and do your check ride, both in as little as 2 hours. I know, it was a long sentence. I obtained my Commercial Gyro by doing the Commercial Heli first, but it can be done the other way around which should be less costly.

Back to the J2...............
I have several hours giving demonstration flights in the J2 and everyone that I have ever taken up and given the controls to, have really enjoyed the flight and said the J2 was a real teddy bear to fly. My self and my business partner flew the J2 to Kansas City about a week ago in gusty winds and made 2 cross wind landings with the wind about 80 deg off our nose. He was real impressed with the smooth flight and the cross wind capabilities of the J2. I'd have to say that the more hours I fly the J2 the more impressed I am with the aircraft.

[RHerron]

[QUOTE=
Back to the J2...............
I have several hours giving demonstration flights in the J2 and everyone that I have ever taken up and given the controls to, have really enjoyed the flight and said the J2 was a real teddy bear to fly. My self and my business partner flew the J2 to Kansas City about a week ago in gusty winds and made 2 cross wind landings with the wind about 80 deg off our nose. He was real impressed with the smooth flight and the cross wind capabilities of the J2. I'd have to say that the more hours I fly the J2 the more impressed I am with the aircraft.[/QUOTE]


Mike,

You are certainly correct about the J-2's wind handling traits. A good friend of mine, who used to be a partner in the one I have, put it very simply.. He said: " The way it is shaped, the wind can't get a grip on it!" :D

[Dean_Dolph]

I thought I would post a couple of pictures of Ron's J-2 that were taken several years back at a PRA Convention.

[barnstorm2]

Dean, is that Greencastle, IN? I love that airport!

Fellow J2 fans, Gyro history fans and those who just like to read everything on gyroplanes.

I have created an Adobe Acrobat document out of my J2 Flying Manual ( with bonus document ) and though it is too big to post here you can download it from the PRA Chapter 34 web site.

Here: http://www.prachapter34.com/libary.htm

( don't forget to scroll to the bottom of the page )

Let me know if it was worth my time!

[Dean_Dolph]

Dean, is that Greencastle, IN? I love that airport!Beats Me! But it probably is. I don't think the batch of pictures I pulled these from were marked with the year so I won't be able to verify it.

[gyroplanes]

Since we all like pictures so much I thought I'd post a few J-2 detail pictures that I took the other night.
Picture:
#1= L rear 1/4 view of the Lycoming O-360, 180 hp engine
#2= L side shot of engine (with new Millenium cylinders)
#3= Cockpit shot. I noticed the ASI reading when I got home and looked at these pictures. The next day it was back at zero ???
#4=Vertical firewall looking aft. behind removed seats and upholstery panel. The circular opening is the "salad bowl" access to the engine accessories (here removed for overhaul). Notice the massive "A" frame mast and push-pull control cables to the rotorhead.

The large gray object at the very top is the spin up transmission and the handle protruding forward is the engagement lever. You engage the lever, push down slowly on the collective stick which tightens the belts between the engine and the pre-rotator shaft and de-pitches the blades at the same time. Then you slowly roll in the throttle until the blades reach take-off RPM (510? it's been a while). Briskly releasing the collective re-pitches the blades, removes tension from the belts and releases the engagement lever.

If all goes well you have anything from a jump takeoff (albeit, not too impressive) or the more typical short take-off roll. YMMV

[gyroplanes]

A few more shots of the project.

#1= Inside the forward compartment. Battery is removed. You can spot the nose gear strut and shimmy damper. VOR antenna, shower of sparks ignition module, and greenish-yellow Tygon pitot and static lines. The top center is the back of the instrument panel and the black hoses are brake lines that lead to the dual master cylinders mounted to the rear of the rudder pedals.

#2= The rotorhead, cousin of the Hughes 269 (300, TH-55,etc.). The J-2 uses a 3 bladed, articulated system employing fluid filled lead-lag dampers that basically hold the blades 120 degrees apart and yet allow them to move, in plane, for lead-lag damping.

#3= The pre-rotator drive shaft. Pushing down the collective raises the shaft assembly tightening the two belts that are engine drivenby the lower pulley which is apart of the starter ring gear support assembly.

#4= One of two vertical stabilizers (and rudders). The horizontal stabilizer is removed for ease of engine maintenance so you don't have to constantly climb over the tailbooms. The down side is that the stabilizer was stored against the wall, near the large overhead hangar door. One day a gust of wind caused the tube and fabric horizontal stabilizer to slide down the wall and rotate 90 degrees just in time to be crushed by the closing door.

Don Farrington smiled down on me from heaven and guided me to his auction in Paducah, KY. where he had a brand new stab among the multitude of control surfaces to be bid on as one item. I (and probably Don) convinced the auctioneer that it wasn't a flap or aileron and that it should be sold separately. It was, and I won it.
Thanks Don.

[Jerseywing]

Thanks for the explanations, I was kinda wonderin what the forward compartment was. I can't wait to get it home

[gyroplanes]

It's probably been 30 years since old 26G made any noise. We fired up the Lycoming last night for the first time.

It was good to see life coursing through the veins of another McCulloch J-2. Everything we tested still worked.

The engine made a few revolutions under the starter and fired right up, the idle mixture is a trifle lean but that is to be expected in colder weather anyway.

The checklist is getting shorter. It shouldn't be too long before another piece of rotorcraft history takes to the air.

[barnstorm2]

Fantastic! Any idea when you will be ready for crow hopping?

[Jerseywing]

Tom is bringing 26G back to life for me. He sent me a video of it starting up and it was incredible. I get more and more anxious with each progress report he sends me, and am awaiting the day it takes to the air like a child waits for Christmas. :D He has taken a 30 year old airship that was only used for 50 hours and with his skill and patience brought it back and made it airworthy. I'll be out in Ill soon to take her up for a ride and then put her on a trailer, and bring her home to NJ.
Tom, I can't thank you enough for the work you've done, and the care you've taken to bring her back.

[gyroplanes]

Tom is bringing 26G back to life for me. He has taken a 30 year old airship that was only used for 50 hours and with his skill and patience brought it back and made it airworthy.

Not quite airworthy yet, we're getting there. I primed the new horizontal stabilizer last night and fixed the inop engine tach (loose wire at gauge). I also replaced the SCAT hoses on the heater system.

The Cyl head temp and Carb air temp probes are both missing and have to be bought, but the circuits function "OK".

I have a 2 day FAA IA renewal seminar and will be guest speaking about gyros(along with Chuck Roberg) at an EAA chapter this week, so it won't be as productive as I hoped.

I take pride and pleasure in returning the 5 or 6 J-2s I have returned to flying status. I'm really sad that several have been hacked up and the engines sold off.

[Caribean_gyro]

tOM ANY 18a OR j2 RESTOR PROJECT YOU KNOW JUST SHOOT ME AN EMAIL. I need to start builkding something else and I have always wanted to restore a 18A or a J@

CHuckP

[gyroplanes]

Were are getting close with the J-2 project. We got the fairings, cowl, wings (fuel tanks) on and installed a new battery and fixed a non-flashing beacon (Old, troublesome Aeroflash design upgraded to newer version) Aircraft holds fuel and oil without leaks, starts well and runs just as good.

Horizontal stab is now in primer and will be painted tomorrow. Current owner has to bring blades and spinner.

Soon we will celebrate another J-2 brought back-to-life.

Any more out there needing restoration?

Photos are self explanatory.

[Roy]

Did this ever fly ?


Roy

[RHerron]

Tom,

If the entire rotor head and transmission haven't been gone through, I would be very suspicious of their airworthiness.

I have never found one that set up for long that didn't have bearing issues.

Good news that another J-2 is being revived..

Ron

[skier]

I'm not positive, but I think this http://www.usnasw.org/Original/major_exhibits.htm
is this gyro's final resting place, in Cape May, NJ. I don't know if it ever flew. I believe it was put up for sale, but it wasn't bought so the gyro was donated to the museum.

[WaspAir]

Several years ago I was at a PRA Chapter 5 meeting at the Nut Tree airport (Vacaville, CA), and there was a J-2 there that had only the initial certification hours on it (about 15 TTSN as I recall). It hadn't been flown in decades, but looked basically complete. I've had no contact with that chapter for quite a while and I don't know where it is now. If somebody is seriously looking for a project, that one might be worth chasing down (assuming that it wasn't previously snapped up and one of those already under discussion on this thread).

With 20kts of wind at sea level and a light load my Super J-2 would jump, but not in a very spectacular fashion (nothing like an 18A). The rotor is too light to store enough excess energy. 18As have much more spinning mass to make them jump briskly.

I have quite a bit of time in both the J-2 and the 18A and would be happy to comment on either (or compare) models, if anybody has specific questions.

[gyroplanes]

Tom,

If the entire rotor head and transmission haven't been gone through, I would be very suspicious of their airworthiness.

I have never found one that set up for long that didn't have bearing issues.

Good news that another J-2 is being revived..

Ron

Hey Ron,
That post was a couple years old.

We did completely disassemble the rotorhead. This machine was very well preserved in a hangar in Texas, no rust or corrosion.

[dragonflyerthom]

I remember when he was trying to decide to either sell it or donate it last year.