Landing in trees

[GraemeClarke]

I seem to find myself flying over forests a lot. Has anyone had to make an emergency landing into trees. Has anyone thought about strategies for landing into a forest. I also have to fly over large areas of vineyards, which seem a lot more scarey!
Thanks
Graeme

[jcarleto]

A few have. Most avoid forests and other obstacles at all costs. Bill Parsons always said, "Pick the largest tree and land right in the middle of it." I'm told he practiced that procedure at least once and lived to tell the tale. I'm also told he landed in a sewer treatment plant tank once, so I'm not sure it pays to follow his lead.

I have flown over Paulding Forest once with the thought of Bill's words in my head...and hoping that the little Rotax wouldn't pick that day to fail me. It didn't, and I am pleased to say I haven't had to test trees, vineyards, corn or any other such obstacles. I like to think of that as a trend. :D

[Redbaron]

"Pick the largest tree and land right in the middle of it."

It also helps to land on the softer trees. Balsa trees are preferred for their cushioning effect. :boom:

[jcarleto]

Balsa trees are preferred for their cushioning effect.

Oh, I dunno...I think I'd favor a cork oak (Quercus suber) if I had an actual choice in the matter.

:boink:

[SideKick]

T he golden rule is to not fly over anything you can't land on. When I find myself nearing a patch of forrest I either go high enough to find a field somewhere in site that I could coast to if need be, or I take a different route.
Maybe that's just me but I don't want to take any chance of damaging my gyro just because the engine went quiet.

[GraemeClarke]

I always keep an eye out for landing spots. Around here there is so much native and pantation forest that its really not possible to avoid it. The real problem is that all the "safe" areas are IFR.
Graeme

[thomasant]

I've had to fly helicopters a lot over dense jungles in mountains many years ago, and 2000 feet AGL was standard, so as to get a suitable landing area. If a force landing over trees had to be considered as a last option, it was to flare to a zero speed above a large tree and then descend vertically down so that the cabin would most likely stay below the rotors which would hopefully get caught in the branches, without impacting the cabin.

[Arnie Madsen]

I think it would be possible to do a zero speed decent into trees and even get caught in the branches without much harm. However , it is the violent reactions that happen when the rotor blades hit (the tree) that will cause the most problems. Even a "gentle" rollover on the ground is pretty tame until the blades hit the dirt. That is when the chaos begins.

GyroDoug just posted a (helicopter) blade hit on a hangar door. Observe the small rip in the tin door compared to how far back the heli is thrown.
http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31538

I suppose if you could get both blades to hit (the tree) at the same time , the gyro would chew its way down leaving the cockpit intact.

[choppergabor]

I was taught to flare at the tree top and go tail down into the trees. The tail boom will dampen the hit as it wrinkles up and the engine and the mast behind the cabin should protect the pilot. Having the blades spin vertical they will slice small branches that will gradually slow them opposed to hit the trunk that will throw the whole body..... This is how I was taught. Not saying it is the right way.....

[Arnie Madsen]

I have been told the same Gabor. I find this an interesting topic , and something I have always wondered (what I would do) if coming down in trees. There are specific techniques for ditching , depending on blade rotation , which blade you let hit the water first by using cyclic once the cockpit is in the water , also , some pilots have saved themselves just before a wire strike by tilting the disc sideways to cut the wire and then back out and then hit the ground intact with only blade damage.., It would be interesting to hear of any successful tree landings that were survivable , both gyros and helicopters.

[thomasant]

That seems to be an interesting method. Just curious about what to do if the tail boom goes through the branches without getting wrinkled, if it misses the big branches. Also, in a helicopter, there is a good possibility that there will be a tail rotor failure first as it hits any branch, which could make the cabin alignment change drastically and suddenly, before the cabin gets under the branches.

[Arnie Madsen]

Further to (the un-related) powerline strikes ..... Tony Carmody has some good safety articles on the Brumby Helicopter site (AUS) .
He calls it the "TC TURN" for wires ... http://brumbyhelicopters.com.au/tcturn.htm

.... and if memory serves me correct he discusses tree landings somewhere on his site. It has been several years since I read his articles and they are all based on real-life tough-condition flying in Australia. Great safety reading esp. for heli pilots.

Various other articles here http://brumbyhelicopters.com.au/tcpages.htm Hopefully the tree strike info is there too. I don't have time to look for it right now. Thanks.

[thomasant]

Thanks for those links, Arnie. Very useful info.

[PTKay]

I was taught to flare at the tree top and go tail down into the trees. ..

That is also, what I was thought at my FW training,

Take the tree-tops plane as the reference and try to do
a slow landing on this plane, with normal flare and stall.

The bigger the AoA at the moment of the "touch-down",
the better.

[phantom]

my advice is try to protect the rotor until you don't need it anymore so no trying to land on 90 foot trees of any kind unless you are comfortable with being pushed off a four story building in your gyro with a stopped rotor. I have always thought that I will be ok as long as I can get with in 10 feet of the ground with a flying rotor as long as the ground will support me when I get it stopped. If you must use trees try to pick short soft types, up here I will pick alders which are like 12 foot springs.

Norm

[ckurz7000]

Yeah, I would also try to avoid hitting a tree until I'm as close to the ground as possible flying as slowly as possible.

-- Chris.

[Arnie Madsen]

(On that subject)Tom just added an interesting post here
http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32321

[PW_Plack]

It also helps to land on the softer trees. Balsa trees are preferred for their cushioning effect...

All flight schools should operate in South America, where there are rubber trees.

[BUD ONEAL]

The "keywest conchcord" said that he picked the "fluffiest" tree he could find and land in the middle of it. He did just that at arcadia Fl. airport some years ago. He and his "test dummy" Boo walked away unhurt.

[C. Beaty]

That was the only tree on a square mile of airport property; a willow tree.

Bud’s comment was classic, he said; “looked like someone was making a tossed salad.”

[C. Beaty]

My very first gyro, a stock Bensen was a jointly owned project.

When my partner decided to go to law school and needed to raise money, I donated my half of the gyro and he sold it to fellow named Danny from South Georgia.

Danny, one night after boozing it up at the local Moose club, decided to go for a 3 AM flight, ran out of gas and lit down in a tall pine tree.

He somehow managed to grab a branch as the gyro tumbled through the tree but lost his trousers in the process and had to sneak home through back alleys.

Danny said his poor wife spent the rest of night picking pine bark out of his hide.

That’s the story I heard.

[bryancobb]

my advice...unless you are comfortable with being pushed off a four story building in your gyro with a stopped rotor...

Gill Armbruster was an FAA employee and multi-thousand hour helicopter pilot.
He successfully autorotated his Mini-500 into the top of a tall tree, and then fell to his death. RIP Mr. Armbruster.

[Early Bird Dave]

Thanks Bud for the info.
I'll have to ask him about that one next time I see him.