Sport Copter----Worst customer service

[MMorgan]

I have been in aviation for almost 40 years and have owned more aircraft than I can remember.....40+ Obviously, being an aircraft owner and A & P mechanic I have had to deal with countless companies over the years.

Sport Copter has to be the worst or at least in the top 5 worst in customer service....returning phone calls or emails, shipping parts, etc.

The thread right before this one is my latest aircraft....a Sport Copter Vortex. I had a lot of problems ordering and receiving parts since I bought the partially completed kit last November. It took nine months to finish the kit but could have easily been done in two or three if it were not for the ridiculous amount of time it took to get parts.

I started typing this thread at least three previous times but bit my tongue and said....." no, no, don't make a fuss, don't start some sh--, etc." The last straw is the rotor blade situation that is mentioned in post # 22 in the thread prior to this one.

On 8-17 Jon Dailey posted that he had talked to Jim about trading my older 7" blades for some new 8" ones at a "huge discount." Great I thought as I had not even inquired about it so I sent a email to Jon to call me and discuss the details. Two days later... late Friday, 8-19, I had not heard anything so I called and Trenna said Jon was out but Jim would talk to me. Jim said he would have Jon email me on Monday (he verified with Trenna that she had my email address) the details of the deal. Well true to form I did not hear anything from anybody so on Thursday, 8-25, almost a week later, I sent a email to Trenna asking her to have Jon call me. I still have not heard anything from anybody.

This is typical of how I have been treated from day one dealing with Sport Copter. I bought my partially completed kit in November 2010. (Maybe that's the problem....I didn't spend $90K on a II) I needed to upgrade the motor mount for a 582 E drive and I wanted the folding mast so I needed some parts. It took from November till Jan. 25, 2011 to get the list of what I needed. That was just to get the list....NOT THE PARTS....the actual parts was weeks from arriving. Some of the parts were shipped and a few things were not. That's another story trying to get something that was not in the box but paid for. They take pics of the boxes before they are shipped to verify what was shipped. When I said "fine...look at the -----pics and you will see the part is not there!!!!" I was told they did not have time to dig up the pics now. So I waited and waited another two or three weeks till they decided to send me what they had left out of the box.

I ordered a few more things like a radiator, rotor brake, prop, prerotator, paid in advance I might add and it took a phone call to Jim to get my order shipped after 3 more months of waiting. (On 3-21 I sent a cashiers check for the prop and prerotator and did not get the prerotator till end of June)

Jim stated when we talked that it should not take that long to ship parts but every time I would call to check all I would hear is how "busy we are" and your order will be shipped when we have time. Jim said I should have talked to him earlier but if that is what it takes to get parts then something is wrong.

Well...this time I did talk to Jim about new blades...I am still waiting!!!!

[Timchick]

I'm ordering parts this week. Hope I have better luck.

[GyroDoug]

Mike,

We all understand that customer service is not typically going to be the same with a small company, as it will be with a large company that has people dedicated to providing parts or answering customers questions. While we all wish the Gyro world functioned more like the General Aviation world, the truth is we are a very small segment of aviation. There are not enough Gyros being sold in the US today to support more than a small handful of people. So the Gyro Manufacturers in the US (at least for the most part) are small companies with each employee handling multiple jobs and wearing many hats. I believe they are all struggling to keep the doors open and provide us with what they can.

Technically, you are not even a Gyro Customer of Sport Copter. You bought a partially built project from a third party, not from Sport Copter, so they haven't made any significant money from your business and you probably aren't the highest priority on their list. Yet you feel you should be like they owe you something when it comes to getting service from them. In a perfect world that might be the way things are, but in our small and mostly unprofitable world of US Gyro Manufacturers, you are going to have to cut them some slack. I think you should be thankful that they are still in business and able to provide you with parts for a Gyroplane that you bought from someone else. There are a heck of a lot of Gyroplanes around today that don't have any manufacturer support. And unless we are able to grow this sport and increase Gyro sales here in the US, the ones we have today, aren't likely to be around 10 years from now.

Everyone has their strong points and their weaknesses. Rather than focus on the things they may be weak in, I suggest you concentrate on the things that they do so well. And since you have one of their Gyroplanes, (unless you plan on selling it and changing to a different make of machine) I suggest you do everything you can to endear yourself to them and build a level of friendship that makes them want to take care of you. You will catch more flies with honey than a bag of crap. I know you may think I am coming down hard on you, but the truth is, I am trying to help you choose a path that will benefit you the most in the long run. I wish you well with your project.

[CLS447]

Imagine how it's gonna be after this thread !!!!

SC2's are only 90K ??????

It is good to hear that they are busy. Are they selling lots of kits or lots of blades ?

[GyroRon]

Rotor Flight Dynamics has always shipped me all the parts I have ordered immediately....... Priced reasonably.... Ernie is always easy to reach by phone...... great customer service in my opinion. Know the thread is about sportcopter, but wanted to mention, other gyro makers do have their shiet together when it comes to serving their customers

[edypaul]

Same here. I have always received parts from R.F.D in a timely manner and every time I have called, Ernie ansewers the phone. Just Sayin.

[animal]

Mike,



Technically, you are not even a Gyro Customer of Sport Copter. You bought a partially built project from a third party, not from Sport Copter, so they haven't made any significant money from your business and you probably aren't the highest priority on their list. Yet you feel you should be like they owe you something when it comes to getting service from them.

What Differance should that make where he bought it from, he still owns their product and is a paying customer that has paid in advance.

boy with that Attitude I am sure glad I have not bought a Butterfly and needed parts from you since you are a dealer.

My Helicom Commuter is 43 years old, needless to say I did not buy my Helicopter from C.H.R.I ( Safari Helicopters ) but they have always treated me with Respect as if I was a builder of a Safari and the parts I have ordered where shipped right out.

they to are not a big company.in fact they just a few years ago bought the design rights from Murray Sweet.

So Doug, your comment makes you sound like some kind of snob. about how You put it that he bought a partially built project from a third party, not from Sport Copter, so they haven't made any significant money from your business.

Regardless where he bought the project, it is still their product. and customer service should be the same no matter if it was a $10.00 part or a $90K kit.

you have just showed the world how you would treat a Custom if they bought a butterfly kit second hand and needed parts from you.

good luck staying in business with that attitude.

I am so glad I have an aircraft from a good company with good customer support and that it dose not matter that my machine is 43 years old and had many previous owners.

Sorry but you comment just really rubbed me the wrong way this morning.

even the Late Neal Carnes of Rotorhawk makers of the Falcon Gyro's was a one man operation got parts out quickly and took time to help his customers.

so your Comments just don't hold water.
Bad Business is just Bad Business. lipstick on a pig is still a pig.

[Aussie_Paul]

In this day and age there is no excuse for poor customer service, regardless of what industry you are operating in!!!

Aussie Paul. :)

[Master Roda]

Bashing us publicly doesn't make me want to help you. Certaintly doesnt help. I understand your frustration as I'm sure other customers do but this isn't the way to get what you want.

Swapping your blades out for a new set was my idea to get you a better blade. It might have only cost you shipping. I've been out with a major back injury for a few weeks (and oshkosh) and Im behind.

You can assume I want an apology (publicly) before I consider helping you.

By the way, I never got your email. It may be in the spam filter. Try sending it to Trina and ask her to forward it to me.

[MMorgan]

Doug, I understand what you are saying...BUT........after weeks of waiting on an order to be shipped I would be told, and I quote "we have customer orders to fill"...to which I responded, "I am not a customer?" That pissed me off!!!!!!

Your logic makes no sense saying I am not a technically a customer. I spent approx $7000 with Sport Copter to get the kit flying.

If you go out and buy a used Ford, Chev or whatever and go down to the dealer and order $7,000 worth of parts I think they would be very willing to service you....even though you did not buy the vehicle new.

And yes I thought about what kind of service I will get now when I need something but a guy and only hold back for so long.....I held back for over six months.

My Sport Copter might be for sale....who knows.

[MMorgan]

Jon,

I did send one to Trenna....read my post. I think that is 90% of the problems I have had.

I really did not want to do this but I talked to Jim a few months ago when the problem got really bad and he assured me that this was not the norm and he would take care of it. If you were out with an injury I am sorry but all it would have taken was an answer to the email to Trenna stating that.

[MMorgan]

And Jon don't forget that I did contact you privately a few months ago to discuss this problem.

[Master Roda]

C'mon Mike. What does this do? Or solve?

It's no secret that we take a long time getting parts out the door. We're low volume high quality---like a custom shop. I don't like it either. It's bad for business. But what do you do when you have a hundred orders and you can only fill them one at a time?

I'm sorry you can't get what you want when you want it.

[Vance]

What Differance should that make where he bought it from, he still owns their product and is a paying customer that has paid in advance.

boy with that Attitude I am sure glad I have not bought a Butterfly and needed parts from you since you are a dealer.

My Helicom Commuter is 43 years old, needless to say I did not buy my Helicopter from C.H.R.I ( Safari Helicopters ) but they have always treated me with Respect as if I was a builder of a Safari and the parts I have ordered where shipped right out.

they to are not a big company.in fact they just a few years ago bought the design rights from Murray Sweet.

So Doug, your comment makes you sound like some kind of snob. about how You put it that he bought a partially built project from a third party, not from Sport Copter, so they haven't made any significant money from your business.

Regardless where he bought the project, it is still their product. and customer service should be the same no matter if it was a $10.00 part or a $90K kit.

you have just showed the world how you would treat a Custom if they bought a butterfly kit second hand and needed parts from you.

good luck staying in business with that attitude.

I am so glad I have an aircraft from a good company with good customer support and that it dose not matter that my machine is 43 years old and had many previous owners.

Sorry but you comment just really rubbed me the wrong way this morning.

even the Late Neal Carnes of Rotorhawk makers of the Falcon Gyro's was a one man operation got parts out quickly and took time to help his customers.

so your Comments just don't hold water.
Bad Business is just Bad Business. lipstick on a pig is still a pig.



I have always received good customer service from everyone at Sport Copter. I am an especially difficult customer because I do not have one of their aircraft and I usually do not need things as they are listed.

My Sport Copter eight and a half inch 30 foot blades and hub bar came when they said they would. They were packed well and worked out of the box and worked well.

I also ordered some front suspension parts that were just some odd bits that had to be selected individually and probably messed up their parts count for kits. They were very accommodating and in my opinion their prices were reasonable.

If someone is going to take extra special care of me because I have something I don’t need and they are going to give me a deal on something I want I expect things to be a little bumpy because they may not have the margins that help to pay for customer service and almost invariably the parts I will be returning are not as I have described them. Because it does not follow the normal order process it is much more likely to not work out well.

When I was a Harley Davidson Dealer I had customers sometimes feel that they were not treated well and would loudly say, “after all the money you have made off of me I think you should take better care of me.” I was always doing the best I could and sometimes things wouldn’t work out. The software I used could track every purchase they had made so I could quantify how much that was and invariably it was less than $20. It was interesting that when these individuals took their business somewhere else they would have trouble there too. It did not seem to occur to them that they were the constant in their business dealings. In my experience inflated expectations are the prelude to disappointment and frustrations.

I did better than most dealers and I still kept around ten cents of each dollar spent in my dealership. Because I was always growing I didn’t get to spend that money on myself and instead I put it back into the dealership so I could provide better customer service. I was in the business because I loved motorcycles and most motorcycle enthusiasts and I didn’t like it when I was accused of being a prostitute. I found it took some of the joy out of it for me.

The motorcycle business is a fringe hobby business and that makes it high risk, low profit, hard work and sometimes there are simply not enough resources to meet some customer’s expectations.

In my opinion he gyroplane manufacturing business is much worse. As a business enthusiast I have tried to understand how they stay in business and I have not been successful. It is clearly driven by passion. That makes odd ball orders that are not part of a kit all the more difficult to process. The margins are simply not there to fund outstanding customer service. The customer service comes from the passion of the owner and it is worn thin by people who demand things on their schedule based on their priorities. I am certain they are doing the best they can to accommodate everyone who has an interest in Sport Copter.

They have accommodated me and in my opinion they will never make enough money off of me to justify their efforts.

I feel we are fortunate to have passion driven individuals who toil to make our hobby possible.

The level of research and development and innovation that goes on in the gyroplane business world is remarkable and I am grateful for their efforts. In my opinion it is not profit driven.

Thank you, Vance

[MMorgan]

I have plenty more to say but I guess Jon is correct and this does not prove anything.

Jon, I sincerely apologise for publicly bashing you and Sport Copter. I hope your back is ok.

You do make a top quality product and I am very happy with mine.

[Master Roda]

I have plenty more to say but I guess Jon is correct and this does not prove anything.

Jon, I sincerely apologise for publicly bashing you and Sport Copter. I hope your back is ok.

You do make a top quality product and I am very happy with mine.

Accepted.

Now, let's work on getting you what you need. If you do indeed want the blades I offered, it will be a long wait. I'm offering them to you at almost no cost, so your at the bottom of the list. Besides, you can fly on what you have for the time being.
If you have parts on order, please "cc" me in on your email interactions and I will do my best to follow up on them. I don't do parts, but I don't mind helping either.

I'm sorry for all of this. I hope we can serve you better in the future.

Jon

[gyromike]

Mike,

Technically, you are not even a Gyro Customer of Sport Copter. You bought a partially built project from a third party, not from Sport Copter, so they haven't made any significant money from your business and you probably aren't the highest priority on their list. Yet you feel you should be like they owe you something when it comes to getting service from them.

Doug,

When a person spends as much on upgrade parts as he did purchasing a previously owned kit/project, I think that qualifies him as being a customer. And when money is sent to a business, the business does owe the customer something! They owe them the goods/services that was agreed on prior to the money being sent.

And since you have one of their Gyroplanes, (unless you plan on selling it and changing to a different make of machine) I suggest you do everything you can to endear yourself to them and build a level of friendship that makes them want to take care of you.


I think you have this part backwards Doug.
There's a reason it's called 'customer service', instead of 'manufacturer service'.

[animal]

Bashing us publicly doesn't make me want to help you. Certaintly doesnt help.

S

You can assume I want an apology (publicly) before I consider helping you.



See right there, they have forgotten that the Customer is always right.
I can not believe you would have the nerve to say you want a Public apology, when you and Sport Copter should be bending over backwards apologixing to the Customer, he stated he has spent over $ grand, yet Sport copter says they have other customers that are more important.

and now you publicly state you will be even less likely to help a paying customer... Gees, give me a break, sorry, but if this was me being treated this way, my Sport copter would be for sale so fast it would make your head spin.

No excusses, Sport Copter is a Business, one to sell parts to it's Customers and support it's product. so from this post one would assume, that even if they do buy a $90+ gyro, later down the road when an owner needs parts, he will be treated like a second class citizen.

Like I pointed out, Bad Business.. You and Sport copter need to publicly apoligize to this Customer and get him his parts.

I have bought maybe $100.00 worth of parts from C.H.R.I. ( Safari Helicopters ) and they always treat me like a True Safari Builder/Owner.

Mike, do you self a big favor, sell your Sport copter and get you a Dominator ,if you want an enclosed Gyro, buy Ernie's enclosed Eagle Gyro, at least you will get good customer support.

I mean heck even in lawn care my few Customers always come first and get what they want.

[Master Roda]

I don't have to bend over backwards for anyone Tim.
I'm here as a service to customers in the first place. I could leave and make it worse, but I don't.
I reserve the right to demand an apology because I didn't do anything wrong in the first place. I'm only trying to help.
I think business's reserve the right to refuse goods and services too.

Sorry, the customer is not always right. Their bitchy and demanding. I know, I'm one of them.

Second class citizen? Seriously?

[GyroDoug]

What Differance should that make where he bought it from, he still owns their product and is a paying customer that has paid in advance.
.

Animal,

I was simply trying to point out that helping people who are 2nd or 3rd generation owners of machines is often not as high of a priority as helping out a customer who bought a product from a given company. For example I have heard that Jim has a 2 place trainer that he makes available for training people that buy a machine from him. It is my understanding that if you did not buy a machine from him and you still want training in his machine you go way down the priority list and it typicaly isn't even going to happen. I am not happy with that situation, but I can understand how, when you have limitted resources, they have to be prioritized. I honestly believe Jim is doing the best he can with the Sport Copter Co. and if you want him to stay in business so he can provide support to everyione who owns one of his machines, bad mouthing his service is the wrong way to go about improving the situation.

I am not saying the current situation is the way it should be, but I believe that it is the way it is right now. I am trying to point out that in the world of Gyroplane Manufacturers in the US, most companies are very small, have very limitted personnel to handle customer sevice issues, and it is understandable that they may give less than stellar customer service. Things happen (like Jon's back injury)and when there is only one person doing a job, they can easily get backed up and fall behind. Again, I am not saying that should be acceptable or we should be happy with that kind of a situation, but if you think about it, you can understand how it happens and being patient and understanding will serve you better than publicly attacking a company for it.

My goal with my comments was to help everyone see and hopefully consider the other side of the situation and possiblyy to get everyone to work together better, so that the situation improves, rather than gets worse.

Working in the Customer Service field, I find that there is a growing sense of entitlement that is becomming rampant in our society (at least here in the US). We have heard terms like, "the customer is always right" until people are starting to feel that regardless of the claim or the expectation, that the customer should always be given exactly what they want, regardless of whether or not it is fair or right or reasonable. That atttitude is just as wrong as the attitude of, "now that we have made our sale, who cares about the customer?" Both of these attitudes are extreme and wrong. The goal should be for the two parties to be able to work together towards a solution that is fair and reasonable to both parties and they each feel like it was a win win solution.

I am not taking sides, nor am I pointing fingers at anyone here. I am simply trying to bring about better understanding and a better working relationship so our industry can grow and become better than it is now. I believe you want the same thing and I hope we can still be friends. From your last post it seems you are feeling pretty confrontaional with me and I am sorry if I have offended you. There aren't enough people involved in this sport for us to be fighting with one another. So I hope you can get over your negative feelings and we can continue to be friends.

[MMorgan]

Tim,

Look at my profile or my signature on my posts....I have a 618 Dominator...have had it for 8 years.

Wanna trade something for your helicopter?? I have a tractor project with a VW motor also.

[MMorgan]

Got a call from Jim today.

We discussed several things that led up to this thread being started. He apologized for at least one of my orders "falling through the cracks" and he assured me that he fixed that crack.

I apologized to him for having to start this thread and I think we can all get along now that I have aired my concerns and they have made some changes that should make orders flow a little better.

Sport Copters are a quality product if anyone has looked closely at how they are put together. The control system and rotorhead is impressive. Suspension is really nice, nosewheel is much better than many...I fly off of my own grass strip and it is no problem at all and I do not have the rough field package.

Mine is not light at 438 lbs. but it climbs almost at well as my 618 Dominator.

[AirScooter]

Mike,

I know you are doing what you need to do to get your situation resolved. But you have done nothing wrong by bringing it public. We the possible future customers need to hear what to expect from a supplier or manufacturer. Funny how they demand an apology claiming they did nothing wrong when you have pretty accurate dates of unfulfilled promises by Sport Copter. That is what they did wrong.... You pay for something up front expecting the product, then don't even get the courtesy of answered calls or returned emails. That is a great example of horrible customer service. I am in business and miss the mark on delivery dates and services promissed from time to time. But I don't think that I am doing my customer a favor by performing a service for them. They did me the favor by choosing me. And when i miss the mark, if I don't correct it, and apologize for it, then why would i poke my lip out if they told my other potential customers? I would hope they would tell them if I did a good job, so you better bet they will tell them if I don't do what I say.

[RotorTom]

I can't believe this! Forgive me for being outraged ... but this is how I make my living ... going after bad companies with poor services.

Mike was doing nothing more than expressing his frustration. He was frustrated. I am sure that if Sport Copter communicated with him as to why they were behind or explained health problems, he may have been more understanding.

But for a Sport Copter representative to demand an apology for a customer expressing his opinion is ridiculous. In fact, it sounded a bit like blackmail.

Basically you were telling him "Apologize or I won't help you!" Are you kidding?

Get out of business. You don't have the aptitude to deal with people. When people are upset, make them feel better. Don't chastise them for expressing opinions -- even if you do not agree with them.

Do you really think you endeared him or anyone else to your company? Do you even care?

It is not a customer's concern as to why a business does not fulfill its obligations. Whatever is happening internally is your problem and concern. You should have mechanisms in place to deal with challenges ... not expect customers to put up with them.

If the challenges are difficult and you anticipate lax services and/or delays in product delivery -- COMMUNICATE.

Consumers are your life blood ... not an inconvenience.

If you think the marketplace will tolerate your intolerance over the long haul ... you're wrong. Companies that think they are superior to customers go out of business -- every time.

This display of power over a customer who is desperate to get parts is despicable. He apologized because he did not have a choice -- not because you earned it.

[Master Roda]

You have it wrong Tom

He has every right to be upset about his parts order. We wronged him and made it right. We apologized for that

He apologized to me because he was accusing me of something I didn't do. I deserved it. He didnt have to apologize to Sportcopter as a company.

I offered him FREE rotors and he thought I was going to ship them immediatly. I hurt my back and was out for awhile, now I'm behind.

I offer no excuses for bad customer service, but I'm only an employee whos trying to help, not hurt. That's why I come here. I wouldnt have said anything otherwise

Jon

[MMorgan]

Jon, I never said I expected the rotors to be shipped immediately. Don't start posting untruths here.

I never knew I was getting rotors till Jim told me today.....remember.....you or anyone else never communicated with me.

All I knew is what you posted in post #22 that said "a huge discount." Been waiting to hear the details.

[Master Roda]

Sorry Mike. I thought that was understood.Basically we swap blades and you pay for shipping.

But now im afraid to say anything anymore. So.....


I mean seriously. I'm sitting here on my own time trying to convince you guys that I'm trying to help a customer who didnt get proper treatment from a department I had nothing to do with? What a joke. On top of it I wanted to do him a favor and replace his old blades for FREE. Am I some kind of ass clown or what?

[RotorTom]

You have it wrong Tom

He has every right to be upset about his parts order. We wronged him and made it right. We apologized for that

He apologized to me because he was accusing me of something I didn't do. I deserved it. He didnt have to apologize to Sportcopter as a company.

I offered him FREE rotors and he thought I was going to ship them immediatly. I hurt my back and was out for awhile, now I'm behind.

I offer no excuses for bad customer service, but I'm only an employee whos trying to help, not hurt. That's why I come here. I wouldnt have said anything otherwise

Jon

John,

Thanks for the clarification. I obviously misunderstood your relationship with him and the company.

Tom

[Scary Gary]

Very well said Vance .
Everyone at Sport Copter is well awere of the fact that I will never be able to afford one of their gyro's . But , they are so nice and friendly to my 12 year old boy and I . Jim takes my boy flying for which I will for ever be grateful and has never excepted a dine for it .
Sport Copter has given me the opportunity to spend some unbelievable father son time with my boy . From Jon to Evan to Jim's wife Kelley to Jim himself I have never seen people so motivated to make a better product .

Mike I'm sorry you are not happy with Sport Copter , but it is just an anomaly from what I have ever seen .

[ultracruiser41]

I've never had a problem with Sport Copter.....very high quality products and people that are extremely knowledgable about the sport.

Like Jon said......they are a low volume.....high quality shop.....quality takes time.....to keep costs down.....shops are small....orders get filled one at a time.

So....remember.....impatient customers have the issue on their minds constantly.....businesses have many, many other issues on their minds constantly.....and must cover them all as well as they can.

Sport Copter is a company that has done wonders for this sport and continue to bring new innovative ideas to the market. They are not a fly by night company that is here to make a quick buck then go on to the next get rich idea they can find. So.....cut them a little slack.....be patient.....and you will be rewarded with a quality product that will provide lots of hours of safe and fun flying.


Barry (y'all relax now) K

[gyroplanes]

Very well said Vance .
Everyone at Sport Copter is well awere of the fact that I will never be able to afford one of their gyro's . But , they are so nice and friendly to my 12 year old boy and I . Jim takes my boy flying for which I will for ever be grateful and has never excepted a dine for it .
Sport Copter has given me the opportunity to spend some unbelievable father son time with my boy . From Jon to Evan to Jim's wife Kelley to Jim himself I have never seen people so motivated to make a better product .

Mike I'm sorry you are not happy with Sport Copter , but it is just an anomaly from what I have ever seen .


They are all afraid of you.

[MMorgan]

I am making one more post on this thread and then i hope it goes away. Like Jon said it serves no purpose to keep bashing the same thing over and over.

Someone said earlier that I want what I want when I want it and someone else said I might be impatient.

That is not true......the issue was being told it would be 3-4 weeks and not getting them for 8, 9, 10 weeks. If it takes 3-4 months....fine....just say that up front and the customer won't keep calling every week checking if it is shipped.

I apologized to Jon since he was out with a back injury and Jim and i talked for a while and worked things out.

No other Sport Copter customers have posted anything similar to my situation so apparently it was just a few of my orders that fell through that crack that Jim said he took care of.

Like I said earlier, Sport Copter makes a quality machine and I am happy to own one.

[RotoPlane]

I purchased my WarpDrive 72" prop from Jon and everything that was supposed to ship did and on time. It was well packaged and he gave a forum discount….I am a happy customer….

[GyroRon]

I don't remember all the details, but I do remember my first dealings with sportcopter.

It was 2001, and I had bought my first gyro. It was complete minus blades. I knew nothing about gyros and only knew a few gyro people in my area.... Bud Oneil, Richard Catfish Oxnam, GyroJake, and several other sw florida gyro pilots.

I had bought the gyro in late Febuary, and had intended to get rotors, and get the airframe and engine tuned and tweaked so it would be flight ready by April, for Bensen Days 2001..... this way it could be test flown by a instructor, and I could take lessons and hopefully solo shortly afterwards.

I asked what rotors to buy.... All the local people suggested Dragon Wings.

I had been given a copy of rotorcraft magazine ( I didn't have a computer back in 2001 ) and called RFD to ask about dragon wings. They were closed and wouldn't be back open till just before Bensen Days. ( this was the time frame that Ernie was overseas trying to set up a company in china or taiwan to make Dominators ) Anyways, I not knowing Ernie kept several sets of blades always in stock and ready to ship, was scared I wouldn't get a set of Dragon wings in time to fly my gyro at Bensen Days.

So I looked in rotorcraft magazine at other blade makers adds and this was right when Sportcopter first brought their own blades to market.

I called and spoke to Jim and even though I knew very little about gyros, he had me sold on his blades being the best blades I could buy. His blades were a little more than dragon wings, but since he knew I was in the heart of Dragon wing country and he knew I'd be at Bensen Days, he discounted his blades to match dragon wings price, so a set of his blades would be out here on this side of the country for people to see.

The blades shipped about 2 weeks later than I expected, but I got them well enough in time to have them on the gyro for the fly-in. They were crated and packed extremely well, better than I have ever seen a set of blades packed from any other maker.

So I am a happy sportcopter customer.

[EI-GYRO]

Mike, As you started the thread, I believe you have the option to delete it,
if you wish. Failing that, I'm sure the modes can do it for you.

Now that the issue is aired and resolved, it might be a good idea to do so.

[Master Roda]

I'm sure Mike isn't the only unhappy customer we've had. But I want to keep the list short.

I'm the blade builder. Everything else I do is for the love of the sport. That includes my participation on this forum.

I'm here to help guys. PLEASE contact me in the future if you have ANY problem with Sport Copter. I'll do everything in my power to make it right.

Jon

[dragonflyerthom]

Doug, I understand what you are saying...BUT........after weeks of waiting on an order to be shipped I would be told, and I quote "we have customer orders to fill"...to which I responded, "I am not a customer?" That pissed me off!!!!!!

Your logic makes no sense saying I am not a technically a customer. I spent approx $7000 with Sport Copter to get the kit flying.

If you go out and buy a used Ford, Chev or whatever and go down to the dealer and order $7,000 worth of parts I think they would be very willing to service you....even though you did not buy the vehicle new.

And yes I thought about what kind of service I will get now when I need something but a guy and only hold back for so long.....I held back for over six months.


My Sport Copter might be for sale....who knows.

I'm with you on this one Mike. You are a paying customer that has one of their products. Now I'm wondering why you were able to get this unfinished gyro. Man I would have started posting on this site a long time ago.:hippie:

[GyroRon]

I don't think the tread should be deleted..... people should know what these companies are like to deal with. No one wants to see a manufactor suffer or close due to lack of sales due to a bad reputation, but at the same time, making the community aware that a company has issues with filling orders and has poor communication with their customers does help people know what their getting into by dealing with that company.

I wish everyone would just be so honest and blunt....

[Master Roda]

I don't think the tread should be deleted..... people should know what these companies are like to deal with. No one wants to see a manufactor suffer or close due to lack of sales due to a bad reputation, but at the same time, making the community aware that a company has issues with filling orders and has poor communication with their customers does help people know what their getting into by dealing with that company.

I wish everyone would just be so honest and blunt....

I agree.

.

[Master Roda]

So, Mike's complaint inspired me to pursue my own complaint with a company I've had dealings with. Although I didn't post it on a forum, I called them and made some noise.

Ever since I bought the supercharger for my car it hasn't worked properly. I called and talked to several people over the course of months at the company and they all denied the problem saying that it's never happened before and there was something wrong with my car. They suggested I get it tuned by a pro shop. Well, I knew it wasnt my car. But I gave up anyway because I didnt have the time or money to waste on that.

Today I called them and finally got someone there who went out of his way to help. Now the guy I talked to is going to fix the problem nearly free of charge. He even admitted that they did in fact have problems with some cars and the mapping of the fuel/air mixture and timing.

I bought the supercharger nearly 3 years ago, but he is still not charging me for the fix.

Good customer service.

[Scary Gary]

They are all afraid of you.

Now why would they be afraid of little old me Tommy?
I'm a pacifist!

[stolking1]

I wanted to respond to Doug Baker...
I don't know what world you live in but it is my opinion that customer service is customer service. I don't care if you sell a new Sport Copter or a set of blades. If a company wants to stay in business then service is the key.
If you need sales to stay in business then sell. If your overhead is too high reduce your overhead. If you cannot support the business then find a way to offset your cost with other products or services until the market returns.
But to make excuses in this world as to why they arn't shipping is not flying.
Most of the time there are other factors playing into it.
I am just fed up with excuses for everyone. If you can't support customers then get out of the business. But to drag on and on and not respond to emails and calls. There is no excuse for that. None!
You owe your customers a call telling them something. To ignore them is horse crap.....!

JD

[Master Roda]

I don't care if you sell a new Sport Copter or a set of blades.

JD

I know you werent directing this at me. Were you?

I do care. I build Sport Rotors and take a great deal of pride in it. I also take care of customers on my own time.

You don't know the situation. It has been rectified. If that's not good enough then it will never be for you.

I hope you find happier times.

Jon

[dragonflyerthom]

Jon

I thing that is just an example. I may be wrong. Since I have been in aviation it has been a sellers market. Mostly because there isn't a lot of competition. So we wait. We call. And we wait. This is all thru the aviation industry not just gyros then we wait.

[GyroRon]

Jon, you need to check your emotions at the door bro. This is not about you, it is about Sportcopter as a company.

And I know Sportcopter is not the only company that offers products that may have had issues filling orders in a timely manner. I have heard of people having simular problems with many other companys involved in aviation. A friend of mine is building a Phantom ultralight and has had almost all the same kind of run around as Mike described he experienced.

I still remember when I bought my sportrotors way back in 2001, and after placing the order and telling the local pilots I ordered from sportcopter, they all told me horror stories of people who ordered parts and even full kits and never got the stuff they paid for. I was so scared I would get screwed after what I was told, I called Jim to verify their stories and make sure I would get my blades and get em on time. Had they told me what they told me before I ordered the blades I would have never ordered them.

There is no doubt Sportcopter is a good company, and the attention to detail and craftsmanship in the kits and products is worlds above any other american manufactor.... But at the same time, if Sportcopter can't clearly communicate with their customers, they may suffer from lost potential sales.

Im in business, and yeah, I'd hate to go onto a blog or forum and see one of my clients blast me in some kind of negative light.... But at the same time, it would be a sure sign telling me I am clearly doing something wrong on my end, and would in the end be a great way for me to learn and apply whatever I need to fix to keep my clients happy.

[Master Roda]

This is not about you, it is about Sportcopter as a company.

.

I know. Trust me, my emotions are in check, I thought his post was directed at me. I just wanted to clarify that I'm not the weak link.

Mike is still going to get new blades and hopefully this thread will become history and we can all work on a more positive future.

Jon

[STOLKing]

Guys, Sorry if I got carried away... I know there are circumstances that only the owners know of. But on the other hand I am in business also and not to return a customer's call or email is something I can't understand.
I would rather give an honest answer as why I can't ship at this moment rather than not respond. If I get an honest answer then I know the company is trying but to not respond?
Anyhow my comments were not directed to anyone special. Just to the world of not responding to customers...

JD

[BEN S]

I am typing this on a DS3 so forgive my spelling...anyway this customer calls and leaves me a phone message telling me to order him something, I cant stand this guy...really gets on my nerves...if your in buisness you know thhe type..Ihave already ddtermined Ican survive without his business so Idont return his call in the hopes that he will become a customer at my competitors store. I would not be rude to his face, but I wont return his call either. Iam prepared to have him tell everyone he meets that I suck, cause 10 seconds talking to this buffoon and either they figure it out on their own OR they have the same mindset as him and I dont want their buisness anyway. I AM NOT SAYING THIS IS THE CASE HERE!!!!!!
This is just a rebuttal to those who seem to not comprehend why a buisness would not give you great customer service...maybe its YOU, maybe its that time of the month, maybe its a whole host of reasons, but if you have never been in retail sales let me let you in on a little secret...the customer is almost NEVER right, but you make him think he is so he will buy your product.
Think Im a lousy buisnessman for saying that? Stand behind the counter for a week than well talk.
Ben S on assignment in Indiana.
MMORGAN again this is not directed at you, ask any of these guys they will tell you I am really a friendly guy.

[Timchick]

Coming from the times I've been around him I don't think Mike is one of those guys, Ben.

[dragonflyerthom]

This is a problem all thru the Aviation industry not in the private sector so much. Like I said before not enough competition in it.

[Vance]

This is a problem all thru the Aviation industry not in the private sector so much. Like I said before not enough competition in it.

In my opinion the reason there is not more competition in the aviation business is because so many people have gone out of business. It is a hard business and driven by passion rather than profit. I feel it is not reasonable to expect the same level of customer service when someone is struggling to stay in business. I would rather they focus on quality and innovation than making me feel important. I am grateful for their passion to help me feed my passion.

Having been in the motorcycle business that is also passion driven I know that many of the customers are quite taken with themselves and can be particularly annoying or as Ed would say about my Harley Davidson customers, “they are a bunch of bitchy little girls.”

I feel they would have more fun sharing the passion rather than demanding attention and a reaffirmation that they are important. The idea that because they are a customer they have purchased respect doesn’t fly with me.

Thank you, Vance

[stolking1]

Ben,
Thank you for posting your side of this. Some people just seem to rub some others the wrong way. But if you don't want to speak with him in a polite way tell him. The world has changes somewhere along the way. If I take an order and money for that order then I produce that product then. That money does not belong to me but to the customer. When I supply the product and what is left is then belongs to the business. Some companies don't realize that. I am not saying that is the case with Sport Copter.
I just want an honest straight answer in a timly fashion. When I am a customer I do expect that from who ever I am purchasing from. If I don't receive it then there is a problem. My pappy taught me early on what a razor strap was for and it was not always for sharpening a razon.
Right is right and wrong is wrong. There is no gray areas between like the world wants to say today. And I do believe a customer does buy respect and deserves honesty, quality and a timly delivery.
Anything less is just an excuse.
If a company want to stay in business. The customer is the key and a happy customer is only way to servive.

[BEN S]

Iposted in capitols so mmorgan would understand I wasn't refering to him personaly. I dont know him at all. I was also careful NOT to mention my happiness as a Sportcopter customer or the fact I consider most of the guys there personal friends...kinda kills the objectivity. BUT stolking, I am a blunt straighht forward ex military enlisted type and of course if I thought for a mooment the customer would respond to my telling him straight up, I would...but you cant fix stupid and so like a flanking manuver I have made a consious decision on the best way to deal with this particular PITA. Airplanes and guns are different but both can kill in the hands of a moron. consider this my way of excersing my right not to serve someone.
Vance ol buddy, you hit the nail on the head...just cause you might have money, your not gods gift to the shop owner. Jon call me I need some measurements for my box.
Ben S

[Scary Gary]

What's in the box ????

[BEN S]

Scary I am almost done building my ultimate gyro trailer with crane and one piece rotor box to transport the blades without dissassembly! from the time I park the truck to set up ready to fly should be under 15 min!
Can't wait!
Ben S still in IN.

[Jazzenjohn]

I have been a customer of Sportcopter too. I bought a set of blades from them several years ago and they said it would take about 6 weeks. I agreed and it took about 6 weeks. They came beautifully packaged and in absolutely perfect flying condition. I'm very happy with the experience. By the way, when I say beautifully packaged, I mean if the shipper was driving past my hanger at 60 mph and kicked the box out the back, I don't think they would have been damaged. That well packaged.

Someone who is interested in getting something immediately might not like to wait so long, but I just want the estimate to be correct. I'm more upset with someone promising it in 1 week and it comes in 3, than I am with something promised in 6 weeks and it comes in 5 or 6 weeks, even though I waited longer. That said, if Jon's back can handle it, it might help SC if they had a few sets of blades on hand instead of custom making them. It costs to have stock on hand, but you lose some orders if people have to wait too long.

[Doug Riley]

All this turmoil made me reminisce about buying from Bensen in the early 70's.

Naturally, this was long before Emails and the Internet -- and long before competition brought down long-distance phone rates. I never did have a phone conversation with anyone there. At several dollars a call, it was too expensive.

I made a few dozen little purchases from Bensen. All were made by mailing a handwritten note and a money order. Sometimes the purchase was only $12-15 for the aluminum-angle materials package or some such thing.

Bensen's must have been a small shop, too, but they maintained the illusion of a bigger operation. Everything was in stock and you could set your watch (OK, your calendar) by the date your order arrived. They responded to all inquiries (again, by mailed note, not phone or email) very promptly. Most of mine were answered succinctly by someone who signed himself "J.F. Kernodle."

Either Igor had assigned someone with a funny name to answer customer inquiries or he did it himself using a pseudonym borrowed from a W.C. Fields movie. The service was great, in any event, even for a nickel-dime customer like me.

[Master Roda]

That said, if Jon's back can handle it, it might help SC if they had a few sets of blades on hand instead of custom making them. It costs to have stock on hand, but you lose some orders if people have to wait too long.

That's the plan John. I've decided to keep a minimum number of common sizes that I think I can sell before tax time. That way, when a customer calls with an order, I can fill it right away and then start building a replacement for the stock. I've pulled a couple of people from the other parts of the shop to help me the last couple of weeks, so I'm catching up pretty quick. Once I start building stock, I'll post it on the website as "ready to ship" sizes.

Jon

[Timchick]

Great idea, Jon.

[PW_Plack]

...I've decided to keep a minimum number of common sizes that I think I can sell before tax time...

Jon, I never ran a business involving inventory in Oregon. Do they charge an ad valorum tax on merchandise in stock on a certain date each year?

I've never understood this. Georgia did that when I lived there, and it basically guaranteed that if I needed something specialized or low-volume in December, I had to order it from out of state, because businesses in GA were trying to clear to the bare walls by January 1.

I've often doubted the common sense of politicians. But every year that goes by, I think it's just as big an issue for voters.

[RotoPlane]

Yeah, the dumb law makers in Ohio added an inventory tax some years ago and have yet to recognize how dumb that was. It practically ruined any business that ran an R&D department. No one stocks parts in Ohio now and it takes several weeks or months to purchase needed parts for a project. Company wide, we had almost $2M in inventory and the company said it was cheaper to trash it than pay the tax. After that, lawn trucks would set for weeks until our special parts could be ordered and arrive. I said dumb…but I really meant incredibly stupid!

[Master Roda]

Jon, I never ran a business involving inventory in Oregon. Do they charge an ad valorum tax on merchandise in stock on a certain date each year?



Yes. I have to report inventory to Kelly and the company gets taxed for it. Neat hunh?

[Doug Riley]

Of course, under the usual accounting methods, even a regular income tax penalizes those who hold inventory beyond the end of the year. Roughly speaking, you don't get to deduct the cost of the inventory until you sell it or trash it. Until then, you have simply traded cash for an asset of equivalent value -- a non-event in the tax world.

A tax that specifically "targets" inventory is, in effect, a double tax.

OTOH, nothing makes us buyers smile like a seller who always has what we want right in stock.

[Scary Gary]

Revenuers !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[500e]

MMorgan
Hope all parts delivered

[BEN S]

Why not PM him to ask?
Ben S

[flynoveru]

i just ordered new blades 2 weeks ago with sport copter. i thought the communications were excellent and PR excellent to? he told me 12 weeks delivery and that's fine with me , but i am also in the midst of building my gyrobee..... so no big hurry :) i'm am looking forward to flying them after talking with them and understanding their process of building. anyway there's my 2cents :) i will let you know if they are late or early on delivery though :)

[flynoveru]

MMorgan : any follow up on the blade situation? would be intersting to see how this ended up?

[neutrax]

I am grateful for my contact and dealings with sport copter and everyone at sport copter. Jim has helped me understand a lot of "FACTS" about gyros and was instrumental in getting my little tinkertoy in the air and starting on what has become a very exciting and rewarding adventure. Being able to get the quality of workmanship and engineering expertise that they provide is special and well worth my time.

[Scary Gary]

So good to hear this.