shooting landings

[StanFoster]

Just some pictures on approach to runway 18 at Paxton. These are not the same approach..but different ones at different speeds. I am finding to slow my approach with these sportcopter blades as they have extra lift during flaring.

I try to touch down right at the beginning of the asphalt.

Stan

[Jazzenjohn]

Stan, which of these do you think is the best approach? The third and forth pics seem to have a much shallower glideslope. The first two are nearer to what I've been aiming for in the X-Plane sim. Should I go for a shallower glideslope? What about engine off landings or engine idle landings? I'm just looking for a general visual idea of the correct glideslope when using the sim software.

[StanFoster]

John: I definately favor a steep approach with the throttle back....this best simulates a real engine out which I have had too many of.

My best is to come in at idle....hold 50 plus and it still has plenty of reserve. I do not like coming in at 60 like the book says. Its too fast for me....and it just spoils you if you are coming in a tight place with a real engine out. I do not like to flare...and float...and float....

I used to come in at 55....but these sportcopter blades has me at 50 with the same reserve for landing.

Stan

[Walker]

Whilst doing my training, with two different CFI's, I was instructed to shoot my approaches at 65. (RAF 2000 w/ EJ-25 and HS). I shot probably 100 approaches and really never "got it". This was really frustrating since I figured this to be a relatively easy transition from flying both helicopters and airplanes.

After one horrific landing attempt, I and my CFI went to lunch to calm down. (Let's all hear it for the 2.5l engine! Probably saved my aircraft 'cause we were able to fly out of the botched landing rather than plopping on the ground). While at lunch I happend to mention to the instructor that my airspeed indicator is calibrated in knots. He snapped his head around and his eyes got all big - no wonder you're having so much difficulty! We changed the target airspeed to 50-55 indicated and all of a sudden it all came together.

Since I'm now seriously interested in the SportCopter blades, and based on the information that Larry has shared, should I expect to be shooting approaches at, say, 40 to 45?

Walker
Olympia, WA

[StanFoster]

Walker: I have 50 mph as my approach speed. I will try them down to 45 to see what reserve there is.

Stan

[birdy]

When I'm land'n on the G spot in the RAF,I usualy approch at bout 30mph,steep at idle,or at a hard bank at bout 40mph.A well timed flare has it spot land'n on the G , and if I'm go'n to fall short,the 914 is still idleing,and a quick blap of the throttle is all it takes to counter any gusting/dieing wind.
Don't know wot the app speed is in the ferel coz the ASI don't work under 30mph.

[StanFoster]

Birdy: After reading your post...I have some slower approaches to practice. :)

Stan

[Jazzenjohn]

So the concensus range is about 45-55 knots with the engine at idle? Are the speeds Birdy approaches at removing some margin for error or are they a better choice based on his exceptional experience? It appears to me that his machine has a higher thrust to weight ratio, is that what allows him to approach slower because of a greater ability to power out of it, or again, his exceptional experience?

[Aussie_Paul]

"IT" depends on disc loading, power loadings etc. Just 'cause Birdy comes in at X knots??? does not mean that your aircraft will be the same!!!!!!

Aussie Paul. :)

[Harry_S.]

I vary my approaches for practice; from 40 to 60 mph, from 10 to 45 degree angles. I think it good practice to intentionally flair a little high, 3-5 ft. and catch it with a little blip (Birdy's blap) of the throttle, which lets you touch down very softly on the tail wheel and zero roll.

I might add here, this method is meant for experienced pilots, not for newbies.


Cheers :)

[Jazzenjohn]

Can you give some prerotator info? Is it always engaged with forward cyclic? Is that true for most or all gyros? when taxiing is it best to use rudder or toe brakes? How about during the takeoff run? Are turns preferable in one or the other direction? (ie. with or against the rotors spinning direction) What are the big no-no's of ground handling? Are their some generally accepted techniques for getting out from behind the power curve?

[StanFoster]

John: You want to have forward stick during pre-rotating so the blades clear the ground at the rear. If you just hold back stick and pre-rotate....especially with some wind...the blades will start flapping and will hit the ground.

Taxiing is best with the rudder. Especially on the take off roll.

The biggest no no in ground handling is not having the rotor tilted into the wind.... If you have a strong sidewind and your attention is adverted to something else...your rotor could tip you over if you arent paying attention to the cyclic. You also dont want to rush your blades while getting them up to flight rpm's. You have to get the blades up to speed to keep them from flapping.

Keep the nose down to gain airspeed to get ahead of the power curve.


Stan
Stan

[birdy]

"Are the speeds Birdy approaches at removing some margin for error"

For a regular landing it will[but most regular landings are done with plenty of room to spare and the engine still avalable.] I like to do it every time to keep my hand in on the rate of decent for as slow as possable speed. This is a handy skill to hone for the time when theres "no noise".....and more importantly ,when theres no room for shallow approches with plenty of AS.[only a spot]

All gyros of RAF weight and lighter[I can't speak for the bigger "tanks" coz I'v never flown anything bigger than a RAF.] can be spot landed with no ground wind assistance,but the machines disc loading,as Paul stated,plays a big part in how critical the timing of the flare is from a low speed,steep approach.

Experiance,or time in type will definatly help in gitting it right every time,but you gota start sometime.The first time I landed the RAF[when it was still a stock "pig" of a machine] was with a 2' ground roll in no wind.
Nailing a spot land in all conditions every time is all "seat of ya pants " stuff,and that can only cum from time in type.

You method is fine Harry,IF you still got power to ease it down.I wouldn't get into the habit of flareing early ,especialy in a RAF,coz with a dead donk,I don't reckon the RAF gear would like being dropped from 5'.
I know wot your say'n ,just don't reckon it'd be a good "habit" to have.

[StanFoster]

Birdy: I have some practicing to do. :D

Just what I need....another excuse to go fly.

The biggest excuse for today....is there is snow on the ground and I have never flown over snow in my RAF. :D

Stan

[Harry_S.]

I agree with you Birdy, I didn't mean to imply that flarin' high and catching it with throttle was habitual. My post was to point out different approaches that I practice at different times. One never knows when **** will happen, so best to be prepared before hand and maybe one will come out allright.

My favorite is downwind @ 3-500 ft., about 200 ft. aside the runway, chop power abreast of touchdown spot and do a 180 to the spot. Don't always hit the spot...but it's fun!!!


Cheers :)

[StanFoster]

Harry: I love doing that downwind one. It simulates going downwind low...and having an engine out. Its a lot of fun crankin and bankin...flaring and landing...

Stan

[Harry_S.]

You are so right Stan. Just flyin' the RAF is fun in itself and it being a heavy machine; one of the lead sleds, I believe!? ;) :D


Cheers :)