Rudder Pedal Distance for Tall/Short Pilots

[Brian Jackson]

Hello Gyro Brethren.

I was pondering this the other day and thought I'd kick it up here to see what other's opinions are on the subject. I'm building my Bee stock, by the plans. But I realized that I'm kind of a short guy with shorter legs than average. Not having piloted a gyro before, Is there an "ideal" knee-bend angle to reach the pedals when flying? You can't exactly adjust the seat preflight, but I want to make sure I can reach the pedals comfortably and safely before committing to a distance. At the same time I do not wish to deviate from the plans, even when shortening the keel an inch or two seems the only reasonable way to bring the pedals in closer. Any thoughts? Or is this a non-issue?

Thanks,
Brian Jackson

[Victor Duarte]

Hi brian, hope i dont get off topic.
this week i am going to take shots of me on a grid to figure exactly the flight position..
i hope it can help.
I know you're a 3DSmax user, good, you have a plugin called character studio, of course you know that, it allows you to build a mankin (called "biped") of the desired size and shape. you can easily build yours at your shape, position the parts and just measure the best positionning points (seat height, stick, rudders etc). if you need a little help on that..
For my "ergonomy", i proceeded that way : i sat on a box, back on a wall to figure the seat, and tried to find the more comfortable positions for pedals and stick, then i took the measures.
cheers

[Brian Jackson]

Thanks, Victor.
I thought about doing the 3DMax C/S route, but there's a lot of "soft" variables that when added together could be all over the place dimensionally. Besides, I figured an easier way would simply be to inquire what others find "comfortable", ask them what their leg in-seam is, then subtract mine from that value. No CAD work involved! I'd rather be building :D . If it's within an inch or two I won't worry about it. But if it's over 3~4 inches difference, I may bring the pedals in closer by maybe half that amount.

I don't like the idea of deviating from the plans at all, but I need to be able to reach the pedals comfortably in order to fly safely.

Cheers,
Brian Jackson

[Victor Duarte]

i agree brian, comfort is a subjective value for each of us.. sorry for the incursion, i will read others
cheers

[Brian Jackson]

No incursion at all, Victor. I value your input as the learned friend you are. :) . I'm just employing that KISS strategy rather than over-complicating things. Lord knows I've spent enough hours on CAD GyroBee work already, laboring over the minutest of details. "Comfort" is more a subjective thing, as you stated, so I'm not attempting to nail it down to the milimeter.

I'm still interested in your C/S findings. However one variable is that by simply placing your back against a vertical wall cannot mimic the pilot position in a GyroBee... The seat brace diagonals are angled at precisely 22.5 degrees from vertical, so hip joint location in your C/S bones model will depend on the mass properties of one's buttocks :D . That's a polite way of referring to "plump" people... more meat in the rear moves the skeletal frame forward :)

Let me know what you find out through your model.

Take care my friend.
Brian Jackson

[Jon B]

Hi guys!

I'm in the same boat (only 5'6"). I would like to mount my seat slightly higher for centerline thrust reasons, but am concerned about being able to reach the pedals.

I haven't figured this one out at all yet, but figured I could mount the pedals higher/closer if need be. I don't really like waiting until I get to that stage to attempt to 'fix' things. So... I'd love to hear any advice opinions from any of those guys that already have machines.

BTW: Have you ever noticed that reviews of aircraft in magazines always seem to comment on headroom? How come us short good-looking guys don't write for the magazines? ;)

[Brian Jackson]

Hi guys!

I'm in the same boat (only 5'6"). I would like to mount my seat slightly higher for centerline thrust reasons, but am concerned about being able to reach the pedals.

I haven't figured this one out at all yet, but figured I could mount the pedals higher/closer if need be. I don't really like waiting until I get to that stage to attempt to 'fix' things. So... I'd love to hear any advice opinions from any of those guys that already have machines.

BTW: Have you ever noticed that reviews of aircraft in magazines always seem to comment on headroom? How come us short good-looking guys don't write for the magazines? ;)
Hmmm... Short, good looking guys... you're describing me :D . Actually, Jon, if you're as light as you say you are, there's no reason to move the seat up. The GyroBee is already CLT as referenced by a "heavy" pilot. Us being lighter only tends to move the craft's center of mass/gravity upward, thereby lowering its relation to thrust line. Here's an area where being a "wimp" actually pays off! ('Bout damn time!)

The pedal-reach thing is still up for grabs however. Being a fellow short guy, I'm confident a simple solution can be "reached", forgive the pun. The process by which to do so is in question.

Regards,
Brian Jackson

[scottessex]

My Bensen style footpeg/rudder pedal mount is easily moved fore or aft by reversing the mount. It also shows in the build manual that it may be moved aft for shorter pilots.

Here is my bensen/kb3 the seat was raised 3 1/2 inches, it might give you an idea, the new design is the same, seat raised 3 1/2 inches, but the keel is dropped 6 1/2" also.

[rehler]

The way to move the pedals back is to move the pedals back. What's the problem? Wouldn't you just cut off the boom tube to make it shorter and re-mount the front wheel and pedals closer to the seat. It shouldn't be difficult.

[Jerseywing]

Tsk, Tsk, Tsk...
Now you are labeling people as short.
My buddy has a problem with a "limited inseam" and had a hell of a time finding a motorcycle to fit him.
He preferred to be called "Vertically Challenged" ;)

Mike
Gotta love the PC in this world. :cool:

[KDOG]

Couldn't we just turn around the pedal mount bracket? (the piece that goes on top of the nose block) That would bring the pedals back about an inch... Also you could make the pedal pivots longer and that would bring them back a little more. I've made the pedals minus the webbing, the rudder control horn, rudder control horn brace and I kinda want to see what others come up before I attatch it...

[Ralph]

Again guys, you are spending a lot of time on a problem that, for most of you, doesn't exist. The machine has been built stock by pilots representing a considerable range in body size without any issues with respect to the pedals. The only person who needed to change the basic set-up was a Little Person standing around four feet tall.

Build it stock and you won't have a problem. Later, if you want to shorten it for some reason, as Ken pointed out, it would be no big deal.

Ralph

[Brian Jackson]

Thanks, Ralph. That's good to know, so I'm not going to concern myself with it. If there had been an issue at all, it would more than likely have been discussed before, so, cool! It was just something I thought about during the hours I spend filing GyroBee parts :D . Life is good.

Cheers,
Brian Jackson

[Jon B]

Sounds like it is no big deal, althought I was worried about vertical distance more than horizontal. Regardless, I can probably handle the default setup just fine.

Thanks all!

[gyroman]

When building my 'Bee airframe, I followed the honeybee plans. The honeybee had a 6 inch extension on the front of the keel which bolted to the original keel via cluster plates. I just removed the cluster plate design and ordered a 6 inch longer piece. After I had it all together, I really didn't like the feel of the longer keel, I felt I was reaching for the pedals. I just lopped off about 3 inches and all is good now. I'm not exactly short yet not tall either (5' 11"). With the original keel being 3 inches shorter than mine is now, I don't think anyone would have a problem with reaching the pedals.

I just wish I had an engine and blades to strap on!!!!