GyroRon
11-20-2004, 04:26 AM
Posted by Gene Weber in another thread, but it was kinda off topic and not sure if everyone would see it. This is great advise and I would pay it close attention if I were a new gyro pilot building my first gyro.
GeneWeber
efw at fast.net
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Emmaus Pa
Posts: 123
Inexperienced Guys Should Build Relatively Stock Bee’s
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Hi Folks,
John’s oil pump is from my new 503. Let me make it very clear that I think very highly of John. He’s talented, knowledgeable, and a genuinely nice person. We’ve exchanged numerous email and he’s helped me out on several occasions. More than once I’ve wished he didn’t live on the other side of the country so I could meet him in person.
That said, I’m concerned about the modifications for the Bee that inexperienced guys are so quick to embrace. Take a lesson from John. First he built a relatively stock Bee and learned to fly it well, now he’s modifying it. He’s also doing it one mod at a time. The stock Bee is a proven design. When I first approached gyroplanes I was fired up to create something unique. My thinking was “I’m an engineer, I’ll learn some basic principles and start creating!”. Fortunately some wiser and more experienced people talked me into sticking with proven stuff. I also started to realize how little I knew. There aren’t just a handful of fundamental aerodynamic principles; there is a large body of knowledge (aerodynamic, mechanical, structural, materials, construction) that takes time and experience to acquire. To be frank, most of us never will. Ignorance of a key bit of trivia could kill you.
My biggest concern with much of what I read here lately is added weight, and specifically where it’s placed. Ralph’s Gyrobee is based pretty closely on Martin Hollmann’s HoneyBee. He’s been put down on this forum, but Martin Hollmann is an aerodynamic engineer with years of practical experience. The CoG on a stock Bee based on most reports is a couple inches below the thrust line. Consider what happens to that when you add heavy shocks below the thrust line, engine supports below the thrust line, disk brakes down low below the thrust line, more fuel below the thrust line. John is smart enough that I’m sure he’s rechecking his CoG relative to his thrust line. On the other extreme was a post several months ago where someone built a “CLT Bee” by completely reworking the frame to something like a Dominator set up. If the stock Bee is only off of CLT by a couple of inches, raise the seat (yes, you need to consider not making your shoulder harness mount too low so you don’t break your back in an accident), and add a Wunderlich pre-rotator which will give you some pounds up high. I’ll bet you my Bee comes in pretty close to CLT when I’m done, without any major modifications.
I think John is probably rare in that he flies his Bee cross country. He’s outfitting it for that, and that’s fine. As already noted he’s bright and experienced. But if you’re new at this, consider what the Bee was designed as, an ultralight. My Bee will be registered experimental but won’t exceed ultralight by too much. You don’t buy a 100cc Honda and try to turn it into a GoldWing highway cruiser. The GyroBee is a proven cheap entry level gyroplane. If you don’t want to start small and move up later, buy something designed for more, like a Dominator.
Please take this in the manner intended, and also please forgive me if I come off too preachy. I’d just hate to see someone get hurt or killed needlessly. Just building a relatively stock Bee and flying it is going to be the thrill of a lifetime.
Sincerely,
Gene
GeneWeber
efw at fast.net
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Emmaus Pa
Posts: 123
Inexperienced Guys Should Build Relatively Stock Bee’s
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Folks,
John’s oil pump is from my new 503. Let me make it very clear that I think very highly of John. He’s talented, knowledgeable, and a genuinely nice person. We’ve exchanged numerous email and he’s helped me out on several occasions. More than once I’ve wished he didn’t live on the other side of the country so I could meet him in person.
That said, I’m concerned about the modifications for the Bee that inexperienced guys are so quick to embrace. Take a lesson from John. First he built a relatively stock Bee and learned to fly it well, now he’s modifying it. He’s also doing it one mod at a time. The stock Bee is a proven design. When I first approached gyroplanes I was fired up to create something unique. My thinking was “I’m an engineer, I’ll learn some basic principles and start creating!”. Fortunately some wiser and more experienced people talked me into sticking with proven stuff. I also started to realize how little I knew. There aren’t just a handful of fundamental aerodynamic principles; there is a large body of knowledge (aerodynamic, mechanical, structural, materials, construction) that takes time and experience to acquire. To be frank, most of us never will. Ignorance of a key bit of trivia could kill you.
My biggest concern with much of what I read here lately is added weight, and specifically where it’s placed. Ralph’s Gyrobee is based pretty closely on Martin Hollmann’s HoneyBee. He’s been put down on this forum, but Martin Hollmann is an aerodynamic engineer with years of practical experience. The CoG on a stock Bee based on most reports is a couple inches below the thrust line. Consider what happens to that when you add heavy shocks below the thrust line, engine supports below the thrust line, disk brakes down low below the thrust line, more fuel below the thrust line. John is smart enough that I’m sure he’s rechecking his CoG relative to his thrust line. On the other extreme was a post several months ago where someone built a “CLT Bee” by completely reworking the frame to something like a Dominator set up. If the stock Bee is only off of CLT by a couple of inches, raise the seat (yes, you need to consider not making your shoulder harness mount too low so you don’t break your back in an accident), and add a Wunderlich pre-rotator which will give you some pounds up high. I’ll bet you my Bee comes in pretty close to CLT when I’m done, without any major modifications.
I think John is probably rare in that he flies his Bee cross country. He’s outfitting it for that, and that’s fine. As already noted he’s bright and experienced. But if you’re new at this, consider what the Bee was designed as, an ultralight. My Bee will be registered experimental but won’t exceed ultralight by too much. You don’t buy a 100cc Honda and try to turn it into a GoldWing highway cruiser. The GyroBee is a proven cheap entry level gyroplane. If you don’t want to start small and move up later, buy something designed for more, like a Dominator.
Please take this in the manner intended, and also please forgive me if I come off too preachy. I’d just hate to see someone get hurt or killed needlessly. Just building a relatively stock Bee and flying it is going to be the thrill of a lifetime.
Sincerely,
Gene