IL IA MO RAF 2000 owners?

[Wooly]

Looking for RAF pilots in Illinois, Iowa or Missouri.
I'm going to try to buy a gyro in te next few weeks. I've decided on a RAF but...I've never seen or been in one. I would like to find one close to Quincy IL (2 hr N of St Louis) that I can look at.
Sonny
(217)316-1439

[tomhall]

Is Southern MN close enough ? N228TH Tom T. Hall

[ynot]

Sonny,
I'm from Mendon and don't know of any close by. I've flown Ron Menzie's RAF but It's about a 7 hour drive.

[Sheldon]

Coldwater MI is where mine is parked.

[cgmg]

Sonny,

Just got home from Puerto Vallarta, and caught this thread. My RAF is hangared near Minonk, Il. From Quincy, maybe less than three hours away from you.

If you're still interested in seeing one, PM me.

[gyro boy]

did you buy your raf if so i have one also and am looking for info on mods if you have any i would like to chat with you

[willisbr]

What mod info are you looking for? There are many mod threads on here.

[Mike484]

Try this for mods, http://www.gyroplanevideos.com/RAF_Modifications.html

[gyro boy]

i would like to do as much as there is to do i am adding stablizer and stabalitor widening stance adding larger turf tires putting on sport copter blades and gimble head i am interested in anything else like lowering the engine chopping the keel or any thing that will mke my raf better

[Mike484]

Do you have any pictures of the one you bought, maybe someone knows it and can help you with what you may need/want. A lot of the mods that are done may or may not make it better, a lot of it deoends on your preferences and your training.

[gyro boy]

i bought my raf in swift current sask canada i bought it on the advice of my instructer there were several i was looking at but again settled on this one sorry i dont have any pics at the moment

[willisbr]

Hey GB. Look forward to some pics so we can see what you got.

My advise would be to go ahead and make an investment into a stabilizer and stabilator.

Personally I would not do any of the other mods you mentioned without first flying one with that mod to see if you like it. Mod doesn't necessary make better. Dropped keel, CLT conversion, and SC rotor setup change things a lot. You may not like it. RAF guys swear to RAF blades or SC blades. They fly differently. Fly before you buy.

Fly your RAF as is. You may surprised how much you like it. Your instructor should have told you that once you start changing things, other challenges arise or you may hate the change and can't go back (keel modding, etc.). I'm sure you'll find a guy out there that swears by his keel mod but notice how few there are out there with it. Very few. You may could even try a suspension mod. That's easy to reverse if you don't like it. Just buy another axle. There's a thread for that on here as well.

GL.

[Timchick]

I don't think I've ever heard of anyone doing the keel mod and regretting it. Everyone I've heard that's done it has liked it.

[willisbr]

Talked to a few that flew dropped keel and didnt like it. Sometimes regret has a quiet voice.

[gyro boy]

hey brian
thanks for the input the stabalizer the stabilator the stance widening along with the bigger turf tires are a must the keel mod is a new one to me today and i would have to read more it seems logical and being stability issues with a stock raf ,which i have these are the mods i am interested in can anyone that has done the keel mod tell me how and what they noticed after they did the mod

[Timchick]

Talked to a few that flew dropped keel and didnt like it. Sometimes regret has a quiet voice.

Are you talking about the Sparrow Hawk CLT mod which raises the cabin or the mod where the keel is cut and the engine lowered?

[willisbr]

Are you talking about the Sparrow Hawk CLT mod which raises the cabin or the mod where the keel is cut and the engine lowered?

Not the SH mod. I've flown that. Didn't like it much because it flew like a completely different gyro. I'm talking about just the keel mod with a lower engine.

Edit: I'm not saying it's a bad mod. But it completely changes the flight characteristics, flares differently, takes of differently. I would fly one. It's a major change.

[willisbr]

hey brian
thanks for the input the stabalizer the stabilator the stance widening along with the bigger turf tires are a must the keel mod is a new one to me today and i would have to read more it seems logical and being stability issues with a stock raf ,which i have these are the mods i am interested in can anyone that has done the keel mod tell me how and what they noticed after they did the mod

I love the stabilator. Very immediately effective.
What are your ideas for turf tires? Will you be flying from extremely tough terrain? I don't think you will like much side play with bouncy tires because of the weight of the machine. You may compensate for this a bit with a wider axle, I suppose. The RAF is designed to have a rigid suspension as is. The landing suspension mod provides no ground suspension when taxiing. I believe the reason no one is putting ground suspension on is because of the weight. When I installed my suspension had no fuel on board, the RAF could be pushed back and forth, unbunching the springs. I would be concerned this could perpetuate worse and cause an accident. So what are your tire ideas?

[Mike484]

When I installed my suspension had no fuel on board, the RAF could be pushed back and forth, unbunching the springs. I would be concerned this could perpetuate worse and cause an accident.

What are you trying to say Brian? I have not installed my suspension yet, are you saying that this may not be a good mod?

[willisbr]

What are you trying to say Brian? I have not installed my suspension yet, are you saying that this may not be a good mod?

Oh NONO, that's not what I mean at all. Let me provide more info.
With no fuel tank, fuel, and no body inside, the springs are unbunched a little. With the reduced weight and unbunched springs, you can wobble the RAF back and forth. With just the fuel tank and fuel in, the springs are bunched and just fine. What I was getting at is I don't think it would be a good idea to have tires or a suspension on the RAF where it can sway from side to side on the ground. When he was talking about terrain tires I was thinking of something on a cub. Something real mushy.

[willisbr]

hey brian
thanks for the input the stabalizer the stabilator the stance widening along with the bigger turf tires are a must the keel mod is a new one to me today and i would have to read more it seems logical and being stability issues with a stock raf ,which i have these are the mods i am interested in can anyone that has done the keel mod tell me how and what they noticed after they did the mod

GB, read this and talk to this guy. He may be able to help you more as he flies with these mods. Go to the source. :)

http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=386887&postcount=103

When I designed and modified the first RAF in the USA and test flew it, I was amazed at how well the machine handled wind, turbulence, with an amazing improvement in stability. The soothsayers said it just felt that way but the RAF could never be improved. Well, I get calls from all over the world asking for plans and selling stabs. The modification and the stab are an unbeatable combo that will transform your RAF into one of the best flying gyros in exhistance. The transformation is a cheap easy fix and well worth the time and little effort. I encourage all RAF owners to at least get the stab. A little more effort if the stab is not as good as you like, is to do the mod.

[Timchick]

Not the SH mod. I've flown that. Didn't like it much because it flew like a completely different gyro. I'm talking about just the keel mod with a lower engine.

Edit: I'm not saying it's a bad mod. But it completely changes the flight characteristics, flares differently, takes of differently. I would fly one. It's a major change.

The changes in flight characteristics that have been reported are a lot less pilot input needed when flying in windy conditions. It makes the aircraft a lot more stable.

[gyro boy]

has anyone flown with different style/makes of h stabs on an raf and if so which style /make would you say was the best

[willisbr]

I have a don parham stab but I recommend Larrys Ultimate Stab. Not only is it beautiful, but the winglets are canted a bit softer instead of the 90 degrees. I imagine that this has it's benefits. When I have the money after my genesis build I will be "upgrading". IMO, there's no question. If you are getting a stab, get with Larry. It's just over a grand I think.

[TJMay]

Brian,

I also have the DP stab.

I flew with you at Bensen Days and while I wasn't PIC, I didn't notice any difference. Can you explain why you prefer the LB stab?

Tommy

[cgmg]

I started flying my RAF with the Parham stab. It still had an unacceptable to me workload on windy, gusty days.

Last year, I put one of Larry's stabs on, and wouldn't go back for all the money in China.

Now, when it's gusty, the RAF still reacts more in pitch than a more stable gyro, but the reaction is slower, and much more muted than with the Parham stab. Most times now, I don't have to change either the throttle setting, or the stick position, to maintain steady flight. The nose doesn't pitch up or down significantly any more in reaction to the gusts.

The other big difference with the new stab is during throttle changes. Previously when reducing the throttle, the nose would pitch up first, then settle back down and either descend, or at least maintain level flight. Initially, it was pretty un-nerving for me, as my Air Command didn't do that.

During throttle increases, the nose would drop, then return to normal position.

Now, on throttle changes, it feels like the gyro "pauses" then reacts in the proper nose attitude to the throttle input.

Yesterday we flew to a fly-in breakfast in the strongest, gusty winds I've flown in since installing Larry's stab, and other than a couple of throttle changes during some strong thermals, the workload was pretty light.

I know it's expensive to switch to Larry's stab(about $1300 I think for mine), but it's money well spent, is my opinion.

[willisbr]

Brian,

I also have the DP stab.

I flew with you at Bensen Days and while I wasn't PIC, I didn't notice any difference. Can you explain why you prefer the LB stab?

Tommy

Exactly what Mark said after your post. I think Larry's stab is a little higher as well.

[gyro boy]

thanks everyone has anyone tried alan lougherys stab the mk5 my choices are narrowing down to the two the mk5 or the ultimate stab can anyone give me feedback on these two