The Making of N327GM...

[GaryMac]

Well, the ink on the contract is barely dry, but I can't help but post that I'm finally able to get started on my gyro project.

After years of lurking, reading, learning, and even occasionally posting, I made the decision to go with the Aviomania G1sa. I wanted to do this a year ago, but finances did not work out as planned (danged recession!!).

John's been great to work with, and Nicolas has been more than patient with all of the e-mails and questions that I have asked him over the past year. It all finally paid off, as I sent my purchase contract to him today.

So, things are really starting to heat up. I reserved my N-number on the FAA website today. Hopefully they will actually assign it to me.

I also was able to work out a deal with Carl Schneider for his old HKS 700E... I'll be getting that after Bensen Days.

I'm really fired up right now.... Now I have to get the garage cleaned out and my tools in order. Can't wait to get started. I think it will be the 3rd one here in the US... I should be building by late March!!

[WHY]

Hi Gary

Got a feeling you gonna love that HKS on the Genesis.

Tony

[Arnie Madsen]

Well, the ink on the contract is barely dry, but I can't help but post that I'm finally able to get started on my gyro project.

After years of lurking, reading, learning, and even occasionally posting, I made the decision to go with the Aviomania G1sa. I wanted to do this a year ago, but finances did not work out as planned (danged recession!!).

John's been great to work with, and Nicolas has been more than patient with all of the e-mails and questions that I have asked him over the past year. It all finally paid off, as I sent my purchase contract to him today.

So, things are really starting to heat up. I reserved my N-number on the FAA website today. Hopefully they will actually assign it to me.

I also was able to work out a deal with Carl Schneider for his old HKS 700E... I'll be getting that after Bensen Days.

I'm really fired up right now.... Now I have to get the garage cleaned out and my tools in order. Can't wait to get started. I think it will be the 3rd one here in the US... I should be building by late March!!
Talk about a bright light in a tough economy , way to go Gary. I love your enthusiasm.

I find it very encouraging . Prepare your shop , get everything ready , maybe next year you will be flying or something.

In the meantime , we would love to see a broom in your hands as you get your shop ready. Clean up the tool box too.

Saves us a lot of money hiring paparazzi and all that.(smile)

They say the hardest thing in business is making up your mind. The rest is just work.

Great decision Gary. We thank you.

Arnie

[choppergabor]

I am glad to see another Genesis entering the US airspace :) Way to go Gary I can't wait to see your build thread....sorry I am such a junkie!!! :)

[All_In]

It is official, and I'm so glad to be a small part of getting more gyro's in the air.

I love my new job!!!

Way to go Gary and thank you for starting a build thread!!

We love build threads!!!

[All_In]

I like it. 327GM = Gary Mc Clure is 3/27 your birthday or?

[GaryMac]

Hey, John.

Yep, 3/27 is the birthday, GM for my name, and Golf Mike is easy to remember and say over the radio!

[All_In]

I thought so, Good choice Gary!!!

It is difficult to think of a new tail # and then they are taken, glad you got yours!

[willisbr]

I just saw this thread Gary. Great news! Welcome to the Genesis threesome. Stay in touch and good luck. Do you plan to attend BD yearly?

[GaryMac]

Hello, Brian.

Yes, I'm the third Genesis customer in the States. Unfortunately, I won't be going to BD this year, just meeting Carl as he comes back from BD. Perhaps next year, though.

When do you get your first shipment?

[GaryMac]

I recieved word from Nicolas.... plans and build DVDs get mailed on Tuesday, and my first shipment should leave his shop next week!

I'm not sure how long the transit times are, but that should start the clock on the infamous "two weeks".

Nicolas also confirmed that my serial number is number 13. So, I'm thinking that "Lucky 13" will somehow need to be incorporated into the name of my gyro.

Can't wait to get started on this project.

[carlschneider]

Gary

The serial number on my new HKS 700T is [13]

Carl

[willisbr]

Now that is freakishly awesome :) And I just made post 13

[All_In]

Unbelievable, I always say that Friday the 13th is lucky. Not hat it actually has been any luckier that any other day, but it has never been unlucky either.

I'm so jealous, you got frame 13 and engine 13! Man is that meant to be or what!

[GaryMac]

John,

I got frame number 13, but Carl got HKS 700T engine number 13. I got his old 700E.

Maybe he will sell me his 700T someday??? That would be karma kicking in, for sure.

I'm looking around for paint schemes, etc., and would like to incorporate the number 13 somehow, just not sure how at this point.

[All_In]

Hi Gary,

Oh I though it was the 700E that was #13. There I got all excited and jump the gun again.

Gary, I just posted a request for help designing my paint, maybe you could do the same thing? I like incorporating 13 in the design, and ask Carl if you can buy his new engine if he sells it? That would rock!

[GaryMac]

Some of the pieces are now falling into place for my G1sa build.

I have received the plans and build DVDs from Nicolas... very well documented and the build videos are excellent. Nicolas does a good job of explaining each step that is being done on the video.

The FAA has reserved the N number that I wanted, so N327GM will be the official name of this gyro, once completed and registered.

Lastly, I picked up my HKS 700E from Carl Schneider this morning. Carl is a very nice guy, and we had a good chat on gyros. He brought me everything including the kitchen sink..... engine, all accessories, two oil coolers, and two exhaust systems. So I now have a low time HKS with 267 hours on it (TBO is 1000 hours). All I have to do is flip the gearbox down, and figure out a mount that will work on the Genesis. Nicolas has offered to help with the mount design, so that we make sure that we don't change the thrust line.

Nicolas is also sending me some of the smaller parts, so that I can get started while he and John figure out how to get the full kit to me.

Here's a few pics....

G1sa Number 13

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/20110422%20HKS%20Engine/IMG_2496.jpg




Plans and Engine

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/20110422%20HKS%20Engine/IMG_2497.jpg


Engine Close Up

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/20110422%20HKS%20Engine/IMG_2493.jpg

[GaryMac]

A little more preparation has been accomplished. I spent quite a bit of time this weekend reorganizing the garage, my tools, and building a work bench. Nicolas sent me the parts for the rudder pedal assembly, so I'll begin working on those this week. The full kit should ship this week!

Here's the garage setup.... I'm trying to do this in one bay of a three car garage, but I'm sure before I'm done, I'll be using at least two bays.

I have to keep it so my wife's car can get it the garage... If I don't, that will be a sure way to destroy her support for this project!!


Workbench Area:

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/20110501%20Workshop%20Organization/IMG_2512.jpg


Plans Table / Tool Shelf / Small Parts Bins:

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/20110501%20Workshop%20Organization/IMG_2513.jpg

[GaryMac]

I spent the past two evenings doing some work on the front support bracket for the fiberglass pod, and cutting the rough stock for the rudder pedal assemblies. Yes, I had to learn the hard way that you MUST clamp your parts down during the cutting process, even though I had read that on the forum before. I grew up working in air conditioning and the associated metal shop tools, but this is the first time that I've worked with aluminum.


Here's my fancy clamping solution to make sure everything stays in place during the cut, and does not become a deadly projectile...

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2005%2003%20Rudder%20Pedal%20Assembly/IMG_2519.jpg


Here's the front support bracket for the pod.... it is fully created, and primed. This was my test piece to "learn" about painting aluminum. I'm not happy at all with the result.

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2005%2003%20Rudder%20Pedal%20Assembly/IMG_2525.jpg

As you can see, the primer is bubbled and the consistency is not very good. I guess I have more to learn on this process. Here's what I did.... any suggestions are appreciated.

I filed all edges, and sanded the entire piece with 300 grit sandpaper, until the part looked uniformly shiny. I then wiped the piece down with Duplicolor grease and wax remover and hung the part from a wire, making sure not to touch it with my bare hands. I let it air dry for an hour, and then used the Duplicolor self etching primer (jcarleto used this system on the bulldozer, so I thought I would try it out). After drying for another hour, it is ready to be painted with a Duplicolor color coat. Like I said, this is my test piece, and really can't be seen on the gyro once assembled. We'll see if I can do better on the rudder pedals themselves.

Having fun so far.... it's great to be finally making some chips fly!

[GaryMac]

Most of the rudder pedal assemblies are now built, filed, sanded, cleaned, and primed. I had much better luck with the primer this time. I just backed off and applied it very lightly in multiple passes. I guess I just applied too much primer on my first test part. Live and learn.

One thing I have learned, is that the paint preparation process is a pain.... I had thought I would just paint the frame, but now I have decided to powder coat it. Even though I am not trying to build an award winner, just a gyro to fly, I think the time savings involved with having it powder coated will be well worth the time and cost.

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2005%2005%20Rudder%20Pedal%20Assembly/IMG_2533.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2005%2005%20Rudder%20Pedal%20Assembly/IMG_2536.jpg


I also began working on the rudder support tube tonight... not too much progress on it, as I had the pleasure of helping my teenager with geometry for a good bit of time tonight.

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2005%2005%20Rudder%20Pedal%20Assembly/IMG_2537.jpg

I should have all the rudder assemblies done this weekend. I'm taking my time and working on my building techniques.... so far I'm doing good on everything lining up and holes matching, etc.

Looking forward to the rest of the kit arriving soon!

[All_In]

Look at the shop and parts your making, SWEET!!!

Way to go Gary!!

[choppergabor]

Gary I have learned the "not too much progress" is usually the one that takes the most time to get done or figure out :)

[StanFoster]

Gary- Way to go at it. I bet yours will be the first flying Genesis in the U.S.


Keep it up.


Stan

[GaryMac]

Thanks for the comments, guys. There's no way that mine will be the first flying.... my timeline is to be ready for spring flying season next year, but we'll see how fast or slow it goes.

I'm just going to make sure I do a little bit each day, and keep chipping away at it.

[GaryMac]

Spent another two hours out in the garage this morning, finishing the rudder pedal support tube and the frame attachement brackets for the rudder pedal assembly. I'm getting better at the prep / priming process. I'm thinking of leaving these parts in primer green, as they will all be under the pod anyway.

Here's the angle jig that I made to keep the round tube stable and square while I drilled the pedal attachment holes.

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2005%2007%20Rudder%20Pedal%20Assembly/IMG_2540.jpg


Here's the parts cleaned and ready for primer.... how do you like my fancy paint booth? Kid's don't use the play set anymore, and its a handy hanging spot close to my garage, so it works!

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2005%2007%20Rudder%20Pedal%20Assembly/IMG_2545.jpg


All parts primered, and the rudder pedal assembly loosely put together, just to prove it all fits! I was short some of the rivets, and I do have to confess to messing up a cut, which made me short on aluminum angle to do the two brackets that should be on the top of the rudder pedals for attaching the rudder cables. My order for 6061T6 from aircraft spruce should be here on Tuesday.... So this build is now official, as I have my very own "bucket of shame"....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2005%2007%20Rudder%20Pedal%20Assembly/IMG_2555.jpg


Finally, a picture of a very handy tool that I got from Lowes.... not sure if all center punches are like this, but this one is spring loaded. You put the point on you impact spot, push down, and "bam", the spring in the handle pops the spot for you. I thought it was cool....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2005%2007%20Rudder%20Pedal%20Assembly/IMG_2553.jpg


I'll start working on some of the small parts that are made of the half inch bar stock, but I'm running out of things I can do until the rest of the kit gets here. Should be soon!!

[Lee Scatt]

Nice work Gary. Building these things sure is fun.
Your N number scared me at first....a smallblock on a Genesis!

[Resasi]

Gary great to see your build log and pictures, we all love pictures; as indeed will the FAA when you take that log and pics in to get your Repairman's certificate, and you will want that! The FAA guy in Orlando just loved the pics that Stu took him, all in chronological order in the binder with the plans. Said it made his job so much easier.

Your set up and beginning all looks great, I have always felt that this was an exceptionally well designed gyro so congratulations on your choice. I enjoy the Hornet, but were I to do it again I would go with the Genesis and a 582.

Just a comment that we received quite early on with the Hornet. When working with Aluminum do use a mask when grinding and when there is the likelihood of aluminum dust. It is both a health hazard and explosive.

http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/healthguidelines/aluminum/recognition.html

And with kids around vacuum frequently, I apologize for being such a Worrywort but my Granddaughter was always in the garage seeing what her Dad was up to.

[GaryMac]

Leigh,

Thanks for the tips.... I have reached a point where it certainly is necessary to clean up my work area.... small tools are starting to disappear under the chips!

I'm not doing any grinding, at least yet. All my work has been with a file and sandpaper... I have read about explosions with grinders and aluminum. Can someone recommend a grinding method that is safe? Radiusing the corners of the aluminum stock with a file is building up my muscles, and testing my patience.

Lee, I'm past my small block days.... my last muscle car had a built 327 with an aggressive cam... It would lay twin tracks of burning rubber for a long ways, but alas, that car has moved on to a new owner, and I have moved on to this new hobby!

[Jazzenjohn]

I think you may have confused grinding Magnesium with grinding Aluminum. Magnesium is much more dangerous. I haven't heard of anyone having a problem with Aluminum. Aluminum can clog up grinder wheels and reduce the ability to cut though. A file and sandpaper does a nice job. If I'm in a hurry, I use a belt/disc sander, die grinder with an abrasive disc, or a bandfile.

[Passin' Thru]

What John said. I've never had a problem with aluminum, but I have had magnesium light off while machining. High-grade magnesium will burn like a flare and there is nothing you can do about it except cover it with a fire proof blanket. I once ruined the table of a nice Bridgeport mill before I learned the proper precautions!:sad:

[Lee Scatt]

Pete, I have long wondered how mag. was machined without accident.
My father used to bring home piles of it, and we would light it off with a bernzo-matic.
It was a spectacular fire. White hot like a photoflash.
I could see it burning right through a mill table.
Gary, be careful grinding al., as it will clog the wheel ,heat up and the wheel can come apart at speed. Not pretty.

[Minnesota_Mike]

Items that help me in a build:

I've had really great results using an aggressive Mill-Bastard file for fast metal removal/shaping, then using either a wood block with #200 or #400 emery sand paper or (my favorite) a belt sander (with trigger lock) laying on its side or upside down (depending on your technique).
The finish is as smooth as a babies butt and saves immensely in manual labor.

A set of inexpensive transfer/centering punches (I paid 9.99 for a set of 28- in 64's...free delivery).
(Don't how I survived so long without them...they make quick work of an otherwise difficult task)
...a quality Tapered Reamer (use WD-40 to keep it lubed and sharp- and easy to clean off).
...a half dozen small mini C-clamps to hold paired parts together for sanding (to match profile shapes).
Just glue small pieces of Coffee can lids to the clamping surfaces to keep from scaring the metal.

I like using an Exacto for deburring the edges of holes in round tubing (Aluminum carves very easily with a sharp blade...leaves a shiny smooth surface after you get the hang of it).

A good dust mask for sanding Aluminum...it is a health hazard.

M-M.

[Resasi]

Your right guys, discount the explosive part. It does however remain a health hazard... besides hiding small tools. :)

I was probably confusing it with flour, that apparently can go bang.

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-causes-flour-to-explode.htm

Fact is we were warned by a member of the Forum and I just did not check the facts about explosiveness. I was however prepared to feel that it could pose a health hazard that we could avoid.

[GaryMac]

Good tips on the tools, and the need for a mask while filing and sanding. I'll definitely start doing that.

Got a few things done today, but not much due to Mother's Day committments. Did the rough cutting for the drag link supports, and also the support brackets for the steel nose gear.

I made a temporary fence on the drill press to keep all of my brake cable holes in the drag link supports even and consistent. Pretty happy with the overall results on these pieces.

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2005%2008%20Nose%20Gear%20Supports%20and%20Dr ag%20Links/IMG_2564.jpg

Here's the final results on the brake cable routing holes that go through the drag link support.

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2005%2008%20Nose%20Gear%20Supports%20and%20Dr ag%20Links/IMG_2570.jpg

And finally I had to make two identical pieces for the nose gear supports... still have to do the filing and sanding to the final shape on these parts.

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2005%2008%20Nose%20Gear%20Supports%20and%20Dr ag%20Links/IMG_2561.jpg

A little bit each day....

[Minnesota_Mike]

Looks GREAT Gary....

I usually only use the dust mask when sanding (since the very fine particles really get air born quickly).
Belt sanders with the Vac tube hook up are really helpful.
Hand filing is seldom an issue since the filings are huge (by comparison to sanding).

I find having the belt sander upside down is ideal- as I can watch from the side view how much is being removed. I made a simple switch box to plug the sander into (one pig-tail cord with a female plug end...the other with a cord plug for the wall) thereby leaving the trigger in the locked "on" position at all times. Secure it to a table...a light touch with the metal...what a labor saver..!

Keep up the great work..!

M-M.

[Lee Scatt]

Gary, Go find some dykem in the aerosol can, and the cleaner. It allows you to scribe razor blade thin lines during layout.

[Resasi]

Some really good tips coming out on this thread.

[GaryMac]

Thanks for the tip, Lee. I'll take all the feedback you guys can give... I'm new to this, and appreciate any and all tips and ideas for improvement you have.

I'm assuming when you say "scribe", that you really just mark the dykem itself?

[GaryMac]

Thanks for the compliment, Stan.

I am very impressed with the kit so far.... drawings are excellent, the build videos are great, too. The videos are really helpful for a first time builder like me.... gives me the confidence to jump in and do the task, after viewing how Nicolas does it.

So far everything has been clearly labeled, excellent plans, videos and e-mail support from Nicolas. I could not ask for a better experience so far. Even though I only have a small set of parts right now, I fully expect that when the full kit arrives, it will be just as well labeled and documented. Nicolas obviously takes care to do his work well. He is even helping me with a small design change needed to mount my HKS engine.

[All_In]

Looking good Gary!!!

[Lee Scatt]

Thanks for the tip, Lee. I'll take all the feedback you guys can give... I'm new to this, and appreciate any and all tips and ideas for improvement you have.

I'm assuming when you say "scribe", that you really just mark the dykem itself?

Yes, very lightly,but a light scratch will polish out if, you get a little heavy.

I only marked inside of which will be drilled away anyhow.
It is easily re-marked if in error, and easy to see when re-checking your measurements.
I also used it on the sawn edges of my plates as an indicator for straightness.
Hit it on the belt sander to indicate the high spots, hand file them down to close,and finish off on the belt sander.

[Jazzenjohn]

If you're doing alot of filing on aluminum, get yourself a file card which is a flat piece of wood with short wire bristles on one side. Use it often to get the aluminum out of the teeth of the file. Also, go to the dollar store and get some big fat sidewalk chalk the kids use to draw on sidewalks. Rub that on the file before you use it as a lubricant and to help keep the aluminum from getting stuck in the teeth. The combination of the chalk and the file card makes filing pretty painless. You can use Dykem or a felt tip pen to mark the aluminum. You can very lightly scribe a line in the dye to make an extremely easy to see sharp line. If you're scribing so hard you pull a chip you're damaging the aluminum. Another great tool for dressing edges is this: http://www.mcmaster.com/#bur-tools/=c8ymy4

Using some tap magic or other cutting fluid makes cutting and drilling easier, the chips less likely to stick to the drill bit, and the drills stay sharper longer. It is messier though.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#coolants/=c8yok9

[GaryMac]

Thanks for the tips, Lee and John. I have some sidewalk chalk in the garage, so I'll give it a try on the next filing job.

Did a little more work tonight.... nothing major. Finished drilling the holes on brake cable guide blocks, rough cut and drilled the drag link supports, re-did the rudder cable attachment pieces for the rudder pedals, and filed the steel nose gear support blocks down to final shape. It's raining here now, so I'll have to wait to primer these parts until tomorrow night.

Here's some of the parts laid out on the plans....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2005%2010%20Drag%20Link%20Pieces/IMG_2572.jpg

Here's the nose gear supports, after filing.

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2005%2010%20Drag%20Link%20Pieces/IMG_2577.jpg

John Rountree tells me that my kit is now in San Diego, but that customs wants to go through it. Hopefully that will go quickly. Then it will be on a truck and headed for Texas. Can't wait to get my hands on all those new parts....

I also downloaded the free 15 day trial of from kitlog.com. I'm trying it out for a few days to see if it's how I want to document the project. Seems pretty easy to use, and I like the format on the canned reports that it can do. Still need to experiment with it's post to internet capabilities. More to come on that as I use it.

[Resasi]

Gary that Kitlog looks very interesting indeed, great find.

Be good to get your feedback on how you find that.

I will admit that the Genesis would be a good fall back to the Arrowcopter... hey guys we can all dream right! And this may well be the way to log the build.

Stu and I muddled along and it was pretty half-assed. Piles of dog eared receipts, photos and entries on memo pads and sheets of paper. He tidied it up pretty good at the end, but this looks a much better way to go.

[Earthboundmisft]

Use dykem like Scatt said, only use a pair of dial calipers to gauge, and as a scribe.
The edge of the open jaws makes a beautiful line, and stays sharp for years.
Use one edge of the open jaws to drag along the end of the workpiece,
while the other edge of the open jaws scribes your line, GET IT?

[GaryMac]

Hey, Mike.... I get it.... I just haven't gone out and got the dykem and calipers yet. Was at Lowes at lunchtime today, but they were out of the calipers. I'll try a different store tomorrow.

As for tonight..... it's been grinding, filing, sanding.... grinding, filing, sanding.... spent an hour cleaning up and doing some grinding, filing, and sanding.

It's still raining here, so not good for painting..... but here's the parts that are now ready for primer...

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2005%2011%20Drag%20Link%20Pieces/IMG_2578.jpg

And here's proof that I actually cleaned up my work area....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2005%2011%20Drag%20Link%20Pieces/IMG_2579.jpg




So far I like the kitlog application.... the only thing I don't like is that it is limited to 3 pictures per build log entry. So if you want more than that for one day, you have to do multiple entries... no big deal.

Here's a rough print screen of what a typical build entry log, with pictures, looks like when printed using one of the canned reports in the application.

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2005%2011%20Drag%20Link%20Pieces/20110511BuildLogExample.jpg

[Resasi]

Thanks for that look at it Gary. I guess that the developers figured that three pics is good enough for the FAA, although it hardly whets the appetite of the build junky crowd on this Forum.

Well it looks as though you are set for a while to provide us all with entertainment as we see this bird take shape. I think the feedback tips and comments is helpful, Stu and I certainly got a lot of help from people here.

[GaryMac]

Running out of things to do, until more parts get here..... I went ahead and painted the primed parts with.... wait for it.... aluminum colored Duplicolor!

Seems like a lot of work to make the parts look aluminum again, but the primary purpose is for corrosion protection.

I'm more convinced than ever that the rest of the frame and parts will be powder coated!!!


http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2005%2012%20Priming%20and%20Painting/IMG_2596.jpg


http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2005%2012%20Priming%20and%20Painting/IMG_2600.jpg


This weekend I'll work on mocking up some ideas I have for the HKS engine mount, which will be the only modification to Nicolas' design that I plan to do. Jazzenjohn and I have been trading e-mails, and I'm going to try and duplicate his HKS engine mounting method. We'll see how it comes out and if the mock up gets the go-ahead from Nicolas.

The HKS has an oil sump in the bottom, and the gearbox has a different offset than a Rotax engine, all of which has to be accounted for in the mount to keep from changing the thrust line.

[GaryMac]

Spent some quality time scratching my head today, trying to figure out the best way to mount the HKS engine.... it has an oil sump that prevents me from doing mount bars across the bottom of the engine like for a Rotax mount. It also has some contours towards the font of the engine that make it hard to run mounting bars in a front to back manner.

I finally decided on stacked aluminum bars that give me the clearance to get around the sump.

Here's the mount bolt holes... Left side of the picture is the gearbox side, right side is the front of the engine.

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2005%2014%20HKS%20Engine%20Mounts/IMG_2601.jpg

So I made a short stand-off piece that fits the mount bolt area perfectly, right down to the radius contour needed towards the front of the engine.

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2005%2014%20HKS%20Engine%20Mounts/IMG_2603.jpg

Fits like a glove...

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2005%2014%20HKS%20Engine%20Mounts/IMG_2605.jpg

Then I stacked another bar, which is able to go forward enough to clear the sump towards the front of the engine. That makes the mount tall enough that I can make two cross mounts that can go across the engine on either side of the sump. These two pieces will go across and eventually be the points for the Barry mounts. In this picture I have a short, scrap piece of aluminum bar and my square clamped on in the locations for the cross mounts. I need to order more aluminum bar to make the left side and the cross mounts, but I think this will be a good, sturdy mounting system.

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2005%2014%20HKS%20Engine%20Mounts/IMG_2606.jpg

[Minnesota_Mike]

Hi Gary....
This photo is a engine mount for a Soob 1.8 made from 1/8 "L" shaped angle steel...I adapted it for a 2.5L I recently installed.
This "Halo" style worked real nice...supported from the front (the small end to the Mast) and was supported from the rear and the front straight sides down to the keel.
It's an idea that might find function in your install...easy to adapt and solid once mounted <maybe you will gleam ideas here helpful to your install>.

I ran engine mount "rails" down the sides (mounted to the big holes seen in the top of the Rails) with no issue of Oil Pan clearance.
Maybe something like this can work for you.

M-M.
(PS..This is an original Parham Mount <Design> used on a Bensen Drop Keel Design for a 1.8L)

[GaryMac]

Since I need more material to finish the original design for my HKS engine mounts, I decided to do a quick mock-up of a design that is very similar to what Jazzenjohn used for his HKS mount.

I'm using the exact same rubber engine mounts that he did.... he's got 50 hours on his setup and so far, so good.

Here's the design, just roughly laid out on the work bench... there's 3 inches between the 2x2 tubes, so with some aluminum block spacers of the correct size, I would simply use this instead of the original horizontal engine mount tube on the G1sa. If my math is correct.... this will work without changing the position of the horizontal engine mount.

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2005%2015%20HKS%20Alternate%20Mounting%20Meth od/IMG_2625.jpg


The main difference is that I'm using 2x2x 1/8th rectangular tubing, instead of 1/8th inch aluminum angle like Jazzenjohn did.... I felt like this would be stronger. A side effect of this, is that I will be forced to put mounting bolt access holes in the bottom of the 2x2 tubes, 1 for each mounting bolt.

This picture shows the rubber mount situation.... I still need to insert some washers, so the mounts are loose in this picture. Note the access hole on the left tube.... I still need to do the others, if I decide to use this type of mount.

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2005%2015%20HKS%20Alternate%20Mounting%20Meth od/IMG_2629.jpg


Here's a couple of pictures with the engine sitting on the mount....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2005%2015%20HKS%20Alternate%20Mounting%20Meth od/IMG_2630.jpg


http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2005%2015%20HKS%20Alternate%20Mounting%20Meth od/IMG_2631.jpg

[WHY]

GaryMac

That mount with the 2x2 square tubing is a --WINNER !!

Tony

[GaryMac]

Thanks, Tony.

I'm liking the 2x2 tubing method more and more.... the more I play with the design and how it all fits together.

I'm doing some more work on it tonight, after my batteries for the cordless tools charge some.

Here's what the actual layout, with spacer blocks, etc. should look like, based on the green lines. The middle tube will be the horizontal engine mount on the G1sa, in its orginal position. I will have to cut it to make it shorter, but this design should be a "bolt on" to the kit, with no real modification required.

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2005%2015%20HKS%20Alternate%20Mounting%20Meth od/IMG_2635.jpg

[willisbr]

Looks great Gary. Have you considered pushing a machined spacer in there?

[Jazzenjohn]

I like it Gary! The 2" square tubing should be quite a bit stiffer torsionally than the angle I used, and also stronger, without much of a weight penalty. It has a nice clean look to it as well.

[GaryMac]

Thanks, guys. I'm liking the way it is coming together.

Brian... are you talking about a machined plug to put into the end of the 2x2 tube? I'm hoping to avoid that, as I want easy inspection of the mount bolts. I think this mount will be very stable, and handle torquing moments well. I guess we'll see when I ground run the engine (hopefully in a few months).

Jazzenjohn..... when you bolted your engine directly to these rubber mounts... did you use locktite or anything else? I'm concerned when it comes time to torque the bolts down to the proper spec, and am curious how you did it.

Thanks, Gary

[GaryMac]

Last post for a few days.... I'm building my order on Aircraft Spruce tonight for more miscellaneous pieces that I will need for the engine mount (nuts, bolts, aluminum, etc.), so I won't be doing anything meaningful until that order comes in.

Hopefully the kit will arrive this week.... John was working on getting it crated last Friday, after the customs inspections, so it should be on a truck sometime this week.

Here's the final, rough version of the engine mount.... lots of filing, sanding, and assembly left on this, but I don't want to drill very many holes until I know exactly where it needs to be on the frame. So I wont do much more on it until I have the frame ready for it.

Rough engine mount....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2005%2015%20HKS%20Alternate%20Mounting%20Meth od/IMG_2639.jpg


And another, for good measure....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2005%2015%20HKS%20Alternate%20Mounting%20Meth od/IMG_2638.jpg


And finally, the shop put back in order, waiting for the next set of parts and pieces to arrive...

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2005%2015%20HKS%20Alternate%20Mounting%20Meth od/IMG_2640.jpg

[WHY]

That motor mount is built for combat, I like it !!!

Tony

[willisbr]

Gary, what I meant was to push in the square tube and run the bolt through. Suppose can put a higher torque on in if it was solid all the way through. Have you tried puting a good torque on a bolt through the square tube alone?

[GaryMac]

Brian, I have not tried torqueing anything down yet. I'm sure that what you are suggesting would allow a higher torque.... we'll see if that is necessary when I do final assembly.

Thanks for the suggestions.... I really am open to anyone's opinions and suggestions, as this is my first build and I want to do it right, and safely!

Thanks, Gary

[Jazzenjohn]

I safety wired the engine mount bolts. I wouldn't trust locktite because of the engines higher temps.

[Aviomania]

Gary nice work.

The only thing that worries me is the 0.125" bearing area of the rubber mounts. that will cut through the rubber very quickly. It will be best if you rivet another plate on the tube wall (from the inside with at least 4 solid rivets, and at least 0.125: thick plate), to increase bearing area of the rubber mounts. Also.. try to avoid as much extra weigh as possible ( solid spacer bars). The HKS performs as a 503 and you are already having a heavier engine... so built light.

You will need to mound the original engine support tube lower than the original design. You will need to make new plates..... i will draw some out for you.

[GaryMac]

Thanks, Nicolas.

I had already decided to add another plate of 1/8 inch thickness to take up the slack on the rubber mounts. I was going to put it on the top.... but I can certainly put it on the inside of the tube if you think that is better.

I will also drill a lot of lightening holes in the solid bars, once I know where the bolts will pass through them.

I understand trying to keep the weight down. I promise I will try. At least I have been on a diet, and I'm down to 175 fully dressed. I think I should be OK with the HKS output.

Thanks for the nice comments and suggestions, everyone!

[Aviomania]

Ok Gary.
Rivet the Extra 1/8 plate to the tube so that they will "be one". If you add it as a spacer washer then the stress will be only at the 1/8" tube wall.

[GaryMac]

Well, I got my order from Aircraft Spruce today.... so I'm back in the game now.

But, I had one of those nights where I just didn't seem to be very productive. Spent a lot of time thinking and not much time doing. I did get some of the bolt access holes drilled, and came up with a plan for assembling all of the parts for this engine mount... but I don't have much to show for my efforts.

Cut and drilled the end support bar for the engine mount....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2005%2018%20HKS%20Engine%20Mount/IMG_2645.jpg

Drilling the underside of the engine support tubes, so I will be able to access the engine mount bolts through these holes...

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2005%2018%20HKS%20Engine%20Mount/IMG_2649.jpg

And finally worked on the spacer blocks, laying out some of the bolt holes...

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2005%2018%20HKS%20Engine%20Mount/IMG_2650.jpg

Hopefully this weekend will be more productive.

[GaryMac]

Another box arrived from Nicolas today.... wheels, tires, and brake drums.

Since I didn't have a lot of time to get deep into aluminum construction tonight, I worked on the front tire assembly, and attaching the brake drums to the main wheels.

Here's the wheels and tires as they come from the box... Nicolas did a nice job of packing them....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2005%2020%20Wheels%20and%20Tires/IMG_2657.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2005%2020%20Wheels%20and%20Tires/IMG_2660.jpg

Assembled front tire..... a litte water / dish detergent mix helped with getting the tire on the hub.

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2005%2020%20Wheels%20and%20Tires/IMG_2659.jpg

The brake drums need to be drilled out in the proper locations to seat on the wheels....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2005%2020%20Wheels%20and%20Tires/IMG_2663.jpg

And here they both are, with temporary bolts holding the drums in place....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2005%2020%20Wheels%20and%20Tires/IMG_2669.jpg

I don't have the proper bolts to finish this job, just yet..... so later this weekend I will shift back to finishing the engine mount.

Trying to do a little bit each day.....

[GaryMac]

Well, family commitments and jump rope competition took almost all of my time this weekend. My youngest daughter is a competitive jump roper, and they had a regional competition that took all of Saturday.

I managed to get in an hour today to finish the wheel assembly, but it will be sometime this week before I get back to the engine mount.

Here's the completed wheels....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2005%2022%20Wheels%20Brakes%20and%20Tires/IMG_2705.jpg

And a back-side view to show the drum brake on the main wheel....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2005%2022%20Wheels%20Brakes%20and%20Tires/IMG_2710.jpg

[willisbr]

Gary what bolts did you use to mount the drums? I didn't get all the hardware either.

[Aviomania]

Brian the bolts are in the shipment that John has. (you can see in your packing list).

[Aviomania]

they are standard 5/16 bolts with a lock nut.

[willisbr]

Ok thanks Nicolas. Hard at work at midnight. :)

[Aviomania]

is there anything else than work??? :noidea::wacko:

[GaryMac]

Brian,

I went ahead and used some AN5 bolts I had...... I bought a variety pack of AN bolts from Aircraft Spruce, as I know that I'll need some extra as the build progresses.

My kit left San Diego yesterday... John's been working hard to get a shipper to actually pick up the shipment. Mine should be in Texas soon (hoping for Friday).

[GaryMac]

Well, my gyro kit was supposed to be delivered today.... I called this morning to get a delivery time, but they said it would be Thursday or Friday.... my choice.

So.... I did what any red-blooded, wanna-be gyro person would do.... I took off work early and drove to the freight terminal and got it myself. The boxes looked to be in good shape, so I loaded up and headed home.


Here's some shots of the packaging.... I have only opened the box with fiberglass parts so far, as that is what I was most worried about having any shipping damage.

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2005%2031%20Kit%20Arrival/IMG_2740.jpg


http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2005%2031%20Kit%20Arrival/IMG_2741.jpg

John did a great job of packing and protecting the nose pod.... it looks like it got here with NO damage.

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2005%2031%20Kit%20Arrival/IMG_2743.jpg

I'll finish unpacking the kit tonight..... but so far, so good!

[Lee Scatt]

Hurry up man.... I can hardly wait myself. Thanks for the pics, keep us posted.

[GaryMac]

All boxes opened, and it looks like everthing survived the trip with no damage! I still need to do a complete inventory, but that shouldn't take long.

Nicolas has wrapped, packaged, and labeled everything to the extreme. I'm not sure if it was John or Nicolas who packed the tubing box, but it was a work of art as far as fitting all the pieces in, and providing excellent protection for each piece, as well.

Each piece is clearly marked, and either bubble wrapped, or wrapped in plastic....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2005%2031%20Kit%20Arrival/IMG_2749.jpg

Tubing box.... truly a work of "packing art"....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2005%2031%20Kit%20Arrival/IMG_2748.jpg

Each piece is clearly marked....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2005%2031%20Kit%20Arrival/IMG_2753.jpg

And the small parts are bagged and labeled, too...

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2005%2031%20Kit%20Arrival/IMG_2751.jpg

And the final picture.... the backbone of N327GM on my work bench... ready to be worked on....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2005%2031%20Kit%20Arrival/IMG_2757.jpg

[Earthboundmisft]

All this reminds me of building models when I was a kid. Wait till the glue dries before you paint it...
OH, if you lick the stickers too much they will fall off...:lol:

[GaryMac]

Spent some time this evening getting ready to begin the frame assembly..... First I took all of the frame plates and filed and sanded the edges smooth.

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2006%2001%20Frame%20Plates/IMG_2762.jpg

I also spent some time deciding how to lower the engine mount tube by 2 inches, without causing too many downstream ripples. I basically copied the frame plates that attach the engine mount tube, but transferred the tube mount location 2 inches lower, while keeping all of the frame attachment holes in the same place. This is just a rough layout... If Nicolas likes this approach, I'll go ahead and fabricate these plates.

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2006%2001%20Frame%20Plates/IMG_2759.jpg


Tomorrow, I start cutting the keel notch out for the bend in the keel, and start attaching plates and frame pieces. I plan on building the frame with undersize bolts all the way to sitting on the wheels, with engine mounted. That way I can fabricate all of the additional little pieces that I know I will need for mounting the engine accessories. That way I can go the powder coater only once (yeah, right). That's the plan, but we all know it won't really work out that way.

[GaryMac]

Got to spend another 2 hours in the garage tonight.... it was really satisfying work, as everything happened just as Nicolas shows in his construction videos.

First, I marked and cut the V-cut in the keel, which allows the keel to bend up under the prop. I have to admit to a little "pucker factor" on this cut.... I just knew I was going to let the saw get away from me and ruin this metal that I've waited a long time for....

Here's the cut keel, ready for plates and bending....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2006%2002%20Frame%20Assembly/IMG_2767.jpg

Here's the plates attached and keel bent up.... a very precision fit, thanks to Nicolas' pilot drilled plates and keel.

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2006%2002%20Frame%20Assembly/IMG_2770.jpg


Next I moved on to the plates for attaching the mast and mast support tubes....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2006%2002%20Frame%20Assembly/IMG_2771.jpg

Next I attached the mast support tube...

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2006%2002%20Frame%20Assembly/IMG_2775.jpg

Then I moved on to building the mast.... the two 1x2 tubes must be bolted together with small bolts on the inside, making sure to keep proper alignment of the tubes...

Here's the bolting method, with one on each end....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2006%2002%20Frame%20Assembly/IMG_2779.jpg

And the completed mast on the work bench.....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2006%2002%20Frame%20Assembly/IMG_2781.jpg


I then clamped the mast into position on the frame and checked for bolt hole alignement....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2006%2002%20Frame%20Assembly/IMG_2787.jpg

Perfect alignment of all plate holes and pilot holes in the mast.... So far, everything has lined up perfectly, with no issues at all. I'm very pleased with the kit so far...

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2006%2002%20Frame%20Assembly/IMG_2783.jpg

On Saturday I will actually attach the mast and move forward with the rest of the frame..... no work for me on Friday, as we have friends throwing a high school graduation party for their daughter.

[GaryMac]

I got to work on the gyro on and off today....

I got the nose gear tubes and mounts done, the main gear attachments mounted, the mast bolted in, and some of the foundation for the round tubing mounts put in place.

Here's the nose gear area....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2006%2004%20Frame%20Assembly/P1060740.jpg


Here you can see alot of the misc. plates and gear attach points that I mounted to the keel today...

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2006%2004%20Frame%20Assembly/P1060752.jpg


Here's the entire frame, in its current state...

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2006%2004%20Frame%20Assembly/P1060754.jpg


And the last one for today....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2006%2004%20Frame%20Assembly/P1060755.jpg


With luck, I'll have the seat mounted and be able to sit in the gyro and make engine noises in a day or two.

[Minnesota_Mike]

Gary...
I really enjoy watching you go through the paces on this build (having proceeded through steps very similar to those you're going through on stuff I've built).

Nicolas has a superb design that is strong, elegant and easy to assemble for a home builder.
A real testament to his doing the "homework" for this design....it is simplistic in an elaborately strong configuration.
In my opinion your doing a great job on this...keep the faith...your just flying through this build...!
Kudo's to you...!

M-M.

[GaryMac]

Thanks for the kind words, Mike. I appreciate it.

I agree with your comments on Nicolas' kit. So far, it's been very easy for a beginner like me to work with it.

It does seem like the build is going very fast... but I know that is just an illusion. Just like building a house, the framing goes fast, and all the finishing details take all of the time. My build log is at 42.25 hours at this point.... Before I started I guessed that this project would take between 200 and 300 hours. We'll see how it goes. The 42.25 hours is actual shop time... it does not count any of my build documentation time.

[GaryMac]

A little more accomplished today.... spent most of my time mocking up where my modified engine mount needs to go.

First, I went ahead and mounted the engine support tubes as they would be mounted for a rotax 582 installation. Nicolas told me that the gyro is designed for the thrust line to be between 1 and 2 inches above this support tube, so I installed it to get a frame of reference. Based on the way I am going to mount the HKS, I will need to lower this tube by 1 inch, which will require me to make some new plates.

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2006%2005%20Frame%20Assembly/P1060760.jpg


The sweet spot will be having the center of the prop at 34 inches above the keel, which will allow the use of a 64 inch prop, with 2 inches of keel clearance.

I then figured out how far back from the mast to mount the engine. The HKS is only 8 inches from the rear mount bolts to the propeller flange, which is shorter than a rotax installation. After some mock ups and tests, I believe I have found the proper positioning for my engine mount.

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2006%2005%20Frame%20Assembly/P1060763.jpg


http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2006%2005%20Frame%20Assembly/P1060762.jpg

That's it for today... will continue with the frame and engine mounts during the evenings next week.

[StanFoster]

Gary- Your Genesis is coming along nicely. I wont be able to do much on Johns Genesis until next month. Stan

[GaryMac]

Thanks for the comments, Stan. I expect that my build will slow down alot when I get to the electrical and instrument installations..... I've not done that type of work before. I grew up helping my dad doing HVAC installations, so metal working and power tools are not new to me.... but aircraft grade wiring is something that I will need to read up on and learn from scratch.

I actually expected to get more done this weekend, but ended up spending more "family time" today... just got back from a movie with the family. I'm glad I pulled myself away from the build.

It would be real easy for me to spend every spare moment working on it, so I have to watch myself and not over do it. I want my wife to like the gyro, not resent it!

Besides, its not a race, its the journey that is fun. I was sure I would enjoy the building part, and so far I have. Otherwise, I would have just bought a used machine.

[Resasi]

Gary I would like to say that this is a great build log with superb pictures. I am really enjoying seeing this machine come to life and you seem to be doing very well.

At some stage someone will also video the critical parts of a a machine coming together, but until then this is amongst one of the best logs I have seen.

[Dirtydog]

GaryMac : :yo: I always like to see when people are building the frames.. Nice to see how others do it also.

Oh yes great photo coverage.

[Lee Scatt]

Gary, Good job on the build. I enjoy watching others, about as much as building myself.
I think we HVAC tradesmen have the need to build, somehow in our genes.
Most all build custom motorcycles, cars or boats, and a large number fly.

[GaryMac]

Thanks for all the great comments, guys.

I'll keep posting lots of pictures.... I know that I really enjoy the detailed build threads on the forum, so I'll try to make mine as detailed.

Stan's helicycle thread is the "gold standard" for build threads, so I'm trying to copy that!

[StanFoster]

Gary- You are setting a very high standard for your Genesis build. I am waving you on past me and yours will be in the air months before I finish Johns. I know neither of us are racing but are enjoying our builds as we find the time.

You also have to improvise on the fly a new motor mount for your engine you bought from Carl. No easy task.


Stan

Stan

[All_In]

Wow excellent build thread Gary!!
You are making great progress!!!
It is great you are keeping track of the time so we can provide an average time required to build a G1Sa for all that follow.

Thanks for sharing, U-ROCK!

Looking good!!

[GaryMac]

Another two hours, but not much visible progress tonight.

I cut and drilled the two main round support tubes, that hold the seat and rudder pedal assemblies. Each tube needed 3 small reinforcing tubes inserted inside it, held in place by a rivet.

Here's the re-inforcing tubes (1 5/8th diameter to fit inside the 1 7/8th main tubes)

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2006%2006%20Frame%20Tubes/P1060768.jpg

Example of one of the short reinforcing tubes, pop-riveted in the end. The reinforcement will keep the tubes from being deformed when the bolts go through.

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2006%2006%20Frame%20Tubes/P1060774.jpg


Front of the tube, drilled out for the attach points on the main keel assembly...

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2006%2006%20Frame%20Tubes/P1060772.jpg



Tomorrow night, the tubes get mounted, hopefully along with the rudder pedal assembly.

[GaryMac]

Had a good night out in the garage tonight.... nice breeze to keep the Texas heat under control, not many mosquitoes, and 3 hours of uninterrupted gyro time.

Tonight I focused on getting the diagonal frame tubes attached and making the new plates for the horizontal engine mount. Both are needed to get to the point where I can mount the seat and landing gear. For some reason, I feel compelled to get it to the point where I can sit in it.

Here's the diagonal frame tubes mounted....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2006%2008%20Frame%20Assembly/P1060776.jpg

Here's a rear view of the tube, showing the temporary mount bolt and the re-inforcing insert inside the main tube.

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2006%2008%20Frame%20Assembly/P1060777.jpg

Here's the front of the gyro, where all the tubes come together. It was very satisfying to see all of the small parts that I built while waiting for the main kit line up perfectly....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2006%2008%20Frame%20Assembly/P1060781.jpg

To make the new engine mount plates, I copied the original plates, but moved the tube mount holes down by 1 inch. This should make the prop center be 1.5 inches above the orginal horizontal tube position..... Nicolas designed the G1sa for this to be between one and two inches, so this should be an ideal positioning of the HKS.

Here's the plate copying process, and hole transfer process.... it all worked great. In this picture I am moving the tube mount holes down by 1 inch.

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2006%2008%20Frame%20Assembly/P1060783.jpg

Here's the two plates cut and mounted on the frame.... the holes were perfect, except for one small issue....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2006%2008%20Frame%20Assembly/P1060790.jpg

It turns out you can't simply move the tube mount holes down by 1 inch, since the mast support tube is sloped. Even though my holes lined up perfectly with the T18 piece, you can see in this picture that the slope (that I did not account for) caused a .25 inch gap between T18 and the mast support tube.

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2006%2008%20Frame%20Assembly/P1060789.jpg

Since this situation is totally unacceptable, I will have to make a new T18 tube that will correct this problem. No big deal, but it does prove the saying "change one thing, and something else down the line will also need to change".

Now that these plates have been created, I can move forward with mounting the landing gear, as the upper gear mount also attaches to this plate. My next targets are the seat mounts, the landing gear, and then finally the rest of the engine mount.

Having a blast so far....

[All_In]

Wow you got a lot done buddy!

Sorry about the tube mount holes but thanks for the build thread with lots of pictures!!

Way to report the good, bad, and ugly... But then I know you were like that!

[GaryMac]

Hey, John.

The bad and ugly was entirely my fault, in the one area that I am modifying from the original design. So far, I haven't found anything that Nicolas delivered that did not fit as it was supposed to.

Tonight I got 3 things accomplished...


1. Seat Mount tube mounted on the diagonal tubes...

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2006%2009%20Frame%20Assembly/P1060792.jpg


2. Upper seat back mount brackets spacer block mounted..... this was a tight fit!!

Drilling out the spacer block...

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2006%2009%20Frame%20Assembly/P1060796.jpg


Upper seat mounting brackets in place....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2006%2009%20Frame%20Assembly/P1060798.jpg


3. Redid the T18 horizontal engine support tube, which is what I messed up last night. I think I got right this time, but still more work to do on it...

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2006%2009%20Frame%20Assembly/P1060805.jpg

No gap between the T18 tube and the mast support tube this time.... Imagine that!!

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2006%2009%20Frame%20Assembly/P1060806.jpg

This weekend.... the landing gear and the seat.

[All_In]

Very cool... looking good!

I love these build threads!!

[GaryMac]

I got to work on the gyro alot today.... hot and humid in the garage, but that's Texas in the summer.

I redid the T18 tube (again), and worked hard on the landing gear pieces and assembly. At the end of the day, I got to the point I had in my mind for the end of the weekend.... it's on its legs!!!

Pic of the gyro on it's gear....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2006%2011%20Frame%20Assembly/P1060839.jpg

And me, finally getting to make engine noises.

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2006%2011%20Frame%20Assembly/P1060845.jpg

Tomorrow, the HKS gets delivered to the local rep.... he made me a great deal on a 2.58 gearbox, so he will be doing the swap on Monday, and mounting the new gearbox withe PTO down.

While he's doing that, I'll finish putting my engine mount on the frame, so that by mid-week when I pick up the engine, I can do the first test fit of the engine on the frame.

[WHY]

Gary, your wife is gonna get jealous, cause you gonna love that bird !!

Tony

[Aviomania]

Gary, Excellent Job!!!!!

Do not forget.... the ruder pedals have 2 positions and the seat 4 positions that can be installed..... try them out for your preference and then commit in instating them there!!!

Great built!!!!!!

[Resasi]

The point at which we can sit in the seat, give imagination reign, and make noises is an important milestone.

You also give us a good view of an excellent kit quality.

[GaryMac]

Thanks, everyone.

The seat and the rudder pedal bar are just "temp" mounted.... I will probably move the seat as far back as possible, and hope to leave the rudder pedal support tube in its current position. I'll see what "feels right" before anything gets too permanent.

My next major milestone will be when the engine is actually mounted. I want to figure out all of the additional pieces I need to make to support the oil tank, oil cooler, and other whatnots. Once that's done, then it will be dis-assembly and off to the powder coater. I need to get serious about coming up with a color scheme.

[StanFoster]

Gary- Looking very nice! Yours will probably be ready to fly by the end of summer. I havent touched Johns for a couple of weeks, and I have parts to work on. Just the wrong time of year for me. Way to go and I will be looking forward to more of your pictures. Stan

[choppergabor]

Looking really good Gary and the best thing in building is when you hop into the seat and fire up the imaginary engine and the rotorblades start barking!!!!! Awesome. Good job.

[GaryMac]

Thanks for the comments, guys.

I took the engine to the factory rep on Sunday for the gearbox swap. I've decided to wait until I get it back before drilling holes and completing the fabrication on the mount. Odds of a good fit are much better if I can test fit it to the engine block as I go, instead of doing all of the work, and then finding that I'm a quarter inch off......

So, not much will happen until Wednesday, when I get the engine back.

I did experiment with the seat and rudder support positions.... I've decided that having the seat all the way back and as upright as possible, combined with moving the rudder support bar to the most forward position, is the most comfortable for me. I'm right at 6 foot tall, but I guess I have long legs. Anyway, those positions feel right, so that's what I'm going with.

[Aviomania]

Gary,
siting upright makes the ruder pedals come closer (straight legs).

Sitting inclined have your thighs go up and your legs go down. A reclined seating is more comfortable and better in performance.... but.... everything is a preference of pilot / builder..

so.. do what feels right for you.

[GaryMac]

Got some more garage time tonight... about 2.5 hours total.

Since I decided to move the rudder support tube to it's most forward position, I had to make another bracket for that... got it primed and painted, but need it to dry more before mounting.

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2006%2015%20Engine%20Mount/P1060852.jpg

Most of the time was spent getting the engine mount pieces bolted together. I only screwed up one piece, which cost me about an hour of re-making, but that's the way it goes sometimes.

Here it is, using temporary bolts to hold it together for test fitting....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2006%2015%20Engine%20Mount/P1060863.jpg

I still need to mount the rear support bar... it's just sitting in place, and I need to drill out the holes to mount the front of the tubes through the 2 spacer blocks and the T18 middle piece.

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2006%2015%20Engine%20Mount/P1060865.jpg


Here's the spacer bars sitting in position... their only purpose is to take up the slack, as I had to have 3 inches between the engine support tubes due to the sump on the HKS.....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2006%2015%20Engine%20Mount/P1060864.jpg


I should get this done and mounted on the gyro tomorrow night. I pick up the engine at lunch time tomorrow, so I may get to trial fit the engine on the frame by this weekend.

My build log is now at 60.75 hours.

[GaryMac]

I was able to fit in some work time over the Father's Day weekend, but not as much as I had planned.

I got the engine mount fully bolted together with temporary bolts and mounted on the gyro..... the next thing is to cut and install the engine support tubes from the keel to the back of the engine mount. Then it will be ready to set the engine in place.

Here's a couple of pics of the engine mount. I really like the way it came together. I've got such a good fit on the 3/16" temporary bolts, that I'm tempted to use AN3 bolts instead of drilling it out for AN4. I'm sure that's NOT a good idea, but it would be cool if AN3 would be strong enough. Any thoughts?


http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2006%2019%20Engine%20Mount/P1060885.jpg

And another one.....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2006%2019%20Engine%20Mount/P1060882.jpg

Next week, engine mounting and figuring out all of the brackets needed for oil coolers, oil tanks, etc. Hopefully I can get that done, and the gyro fully dis-assembled to get it ready for powder coating.

[Ghetto Wash]

How about you save a few ounces and shave off a bit on the engine mount. See the red shaded portions.

http://s1124.photobucket.com/albums/l580/GhettoWash/

[GaryMac]

GW,

That could work.... I had not thought of making those cuts on the tubes. I'll look into it.

Thanks, GaryMac

[Friendly]

This has been a super clean build, I cant wait to see the powder coat pictures.
Does the axles have a shock. I did not see them on the up rights.

[WHY]

Gary, I always build for combat, go for the AN4, it will match the rest of the machines quality.

Tony

[GaryMac]

Mark: Yes, there will be shocks on those tubes..... they are in the next shipment from Nicolas. That's the reason the gyro is "riding high" in the back right now, as I don't yet know the exact length to cut those tubes until I have the shocks to complete the measurements.

Tony: AN4 it will be. I don't like to cut corners, and it will be worth it in the end.

[Aviomania]

Gary i will prepare a sketch for you.... and use AN 3 and make it stronger... and some rivets. will email it to you later.

[GaryMac]

Thanks, Nicolas.

I know that I still need to install the .25 inch plate inside the tubes, to essentially increase the thickness of the top where the rubber engine mounts will be installed.

Looking forward to your diagram, to see what improvements are needed.

[Aviomania]

Gary, I have send you the email.

[GaryMac]

Whew!!!! What a butt-whippin tonight's work was.... Spent 4 hours in the very hot garage working on getting the round tube engine support rods in place, and the engine placed on the mount.

I went ahead and did full size AN4 bolts on these brackets and tubes, as the powder coat should not move their positions. I probably spent 1.5 hours drilling out the holes in the steel brackets... very slow to drill and you can melt a bit if you rush it.

Here's a couple of pics of the brackets mounted on the frame with the AN4 bolts...

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2006%2021%20Engine%20Mount/P1060888.jpg

Top brackets....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2006%2021%20Engine%20Mount/P1060892.jpg


And finally the tubes completely installed.... I like the fit, but it took a while to get it done!!!

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2006%2021%20Engine%20Mount/P1060894.jpg


http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2006%2021%20Engine%20Mount/P1060893.jpg


And finally, I got the engine set in place.... it's location came out as planned, as the prop will be right over the lowest point on the keel....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2006%2021%20Engine%20Mount/P1060902.jpg

And a couple more pics of the engine on the mount.... Thrust line is right where I wanted it.

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2006%2021%20Engine%20Mount/P1060901.jpg


http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2006%2021%20Engine%20Mount/P1060897.jpg

I still have some more work to do on this mount..... Nicolas has offered some suggestions on making it lighter and stronger, so I will work on that after I get some more of the rough fitting work done...

Also, the access to the engine mount bolts is a real "pain in the @$$"..... I've got to think of a better way on that issue.

I'm whipped.... the heat and humidity is bad today, because we actually got some rain last night.

[WHY]

Gary

The situation with the engine mount bolts may be more of "make a special tool" than changing something

Tony

[choppergabor]

Gary you are doing great! As for the heat and humidity, I feel your pain! Heat index was 108 here. I am whipped too. But I guess it's not worth to wait for cooler weather to come anytime soon :) Looking good!

[GaryMac]

Thanks for the nice comments, guys.

Tony, I had thought that I had made enough access room to be able to use a long socket to put the engine mount bolts in..... That might still work, so I'll be trying again with a fresh start tonight.

I was hot, tired, and a little frustrated by the time I got to putting in the engine bolts, so when things didn't go quite as planned..... that was enough for the night for me!!

Today's another day, so hopefully everything goes well tonight.

[GaryMac]

Had a good night out in the garage tonight.... got most of the engine accessories "positioned"..... so now I just need to come up with the mounting methods for the oil tank, oil cooler, and exhaust system.

First pics..... I had much better luck bolting the engine down tonight.... I need to work on the back left mount position, but all the others are fine.

Here's a yard stick, showing the 32" inch mark from center of prop... it leaves exactly 2 inches of clearance to the keel..... Perfect for my 64 inch prop.

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2006%2022%20Engine%20Accessories/P1060905.jpg


Another pic showing how the prop flange will line up with the keel.... prop will be right over the lowest part of the keel.

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2006%2022%20Engine%20Accessories/P1060908.jpg


I'm a little concerned over the oil pump input and output lines, versus the engine mount.... I'll have to see what types of fittings are available to route the lines at an angle that will not interfere with the engine mount.

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2006%2022%20Engine%20Accessories/P1060910.jpg


Mounted the carbs and air filters, just to get a visual on how everything will "fit together".

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2006%2022%20Engine%20Accessories/P1060912.jpg


I have two different exhausts that came with the engine from Carl.... I tried them both, and decided to use this one..... excuse the bungie cords.... I'm working alone, and need a third hand a lot of the time.

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2006%2022%20Engine%20Accessories/P1060914.jpg


Here's the exhaust, and the planned mounting area for the oil cooler...

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2006%2022%20Engine%20Accessories/P1060916.jpg


And I plan to mount the oil tank here....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2006%2022%20Engine%20Accessories/P1060917.jpg


Here's what it all looks like from the side... I think I can plumb all of this together and not have it look bad....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2006%2022%20Engine%20Accessories/P1060918.jpg


And finally... here's a pic demonstrating the thrust line for this custom HKS installation.... Keep in mind that the back of the gyro is "jacked up", as I have not cut the shock tubes to the proper length yet....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2006%2022%20Engine%20Accessories/thrustline.jpg


More to come tomorrow night....

[choppergabor]

Looking good. That 72 inch prop is going to push your skinny butt :) pretty nicely. Damn ya'll you light weight pilots!!!! Now that seat is really looking like if you pushed it any further back you could take a nap in it while flying! LOL

[GaryMac]

Lol, Gabor, but 72 inches will cut this machine's tail off..... 64 fits just fine. My skinny butt is the main reason that I was willing to go with an HKS. There is some concern from Nicolas about how much power versus weight this configuration will do...

General consensus is that the HKS puts out just slightly more power / thrust than a 503, but it weighs about 25 pounds more installed. Plus my engine mount is heavier than the standard mount.... so I've got a 30 pound penalty, with just slightly more power than a standard 503.

Scandtours seems to fly his G1sa just fine on a 503 and I believe he is over 200 lbs (sorry scandtours)..... So, I figure my skinny butt makes up the difference, and this combination should fly me just fine. Testing will be the ultimate proof, when I get there. If it doesn't work..... I'll probably go for an HKS 700T turbo (80HP).... that should be a bolt in replacement for the 700E, but I'm just not convinced that I need that much power, and I sure don't want to spend that much money unless I have to.

I am really sold on 4 stroke engines, and I'm not experienced enough to experiment with the Webers and Yamahas..... so an HKS is my only viable option.

If it doesn't work at all.... I can easily convert this back to a Rotax 582 installation.... but my wasted youth on 2 stroke motorcycles has me worried about using a 2 stroke in the air.... .

Also, the seat position is as far back as I can get it, but it is also as "upright" as I can get it..... the machine is designed to have a "relaxed" sitting position. I find it very comfortable.

We'll see how it goes!!!

[GaryMac]

And the final thing for tonight.... the reason I mock things up is so I can get a visual of how it fits, and think about things.....

And I just realized that the oil tank location in the post above won't work at all, as that's where the rotor control tubes will be be going..... one mistake avoided!!

[choppergabor]

Sorry my bad I was reading the 32 inches off of the stick and for some reason I got 72 stuck in my mind :) Apparently I am not big on math either. 2x32=72(-8) LOL It is time to go to sleep hahahaha.

[willisbr]

Does the HKS oil injection have a pump? Gravity assist not needed? I like that beefy looking resevoir. Jealous! Also, is it air cooled? Where will radiator go if water cooled?
Looking good Gary. You are getting tons done, figuring stuff out along the way even.

The 582 blue was an easy decision for me because of the few friends I've talked to that get a good ride from them. I just need to learn how to use it now :)

[Aviomania]

Gary nice work!!!

the oil cooler right on the bottom will be interfering with rudder cables..... also long oil lines.

an alternative could be the bottom of the oil cooler to be on top of T16 and its top below the 2 T15 tubes.... you then have top and bottom mounting points, away from the ground, and shorter oil lines.

[Brian]

very nice build glad you are posting it for us to watch brian

[Resasi]

Looking good Gary. I like the look of the seat and it's position and semi recline.

Just a thought, and really hope I am not stepping out of line here, so slap me down anyone if you think this out of place, also you Gary may already be completely aware of all of this, so forgive the slight ramble if you are.

When talking about how your gyro will perform on any particular engine, certainly a question I was pondering when we began the Hornet, I picked up a few things along the way that I could have done with earlier when making choices, hence this.

I found with the Bensen I was training on, that the 503 worked well during training, however once I got into circuits it struggled to get altitude. We had 23' RotorHawkes, 52' 3 blade Ivo, and my 200lbs. at that time.

The engine was then changed from the 503 to a 532, and a different prop put on. From three blade 52' Ivo to a 4 blade 52' Arplast.
I think we went from 280lbs to around 305lbls thrust, just with the prop change. That combination of an extra 10hp approx, and extra thrust we got from changing the prop made a huge difference in performance with the Bensen.

With our Hornet we chose to go 503 instead of 447 even though we were going to try for ultralight. We missed that weight by a good margin, nearly a 100lbs, and thank goodness for the 503 choice. Actually if we did it over again I would pay the extra and have gone with the 582.

With a DCDI 503, 62' 3 blade Warp, giving around 310lbs thrust, and 23' Dragonwings the Hornet does OK, but I would not say it is a sparkling performer. It sort of falls between the two Bensen modes I tried.

It flies nicely, but in the summer heat at Zephry Hills it does not climb like a homesick angle, more sort of gently ambles up. It will be a great training machine for Stuart my son, who did pretty much most of the building, but a great yank and bank machine she will not be.

I certainly tend to regard Nicolas's machine as a quality design that will adapt well to varying engine sizes be a great machine to both train on with the smaller engine, and also be a real good handling hotrod if you want, and engine it to do that.

Engine size and HP is one thing, but prop/thrust and rotor blades all figure into the equation of how your particular package will perform. I am thinking in all this that the weights of the three Genissae will be very approximately the same. All probably be using 23' rotors. Prop types, engine outputs, weight density alts/ ie where, and when you fly all come into the equation when trying to figure what engine you finally want to go with

[willisbr]

And I just realized that the oil tank location in the post above won't work at all, as that's where the rotor control tubes will be be going..... one mistake avoided!!

Well I'll be damned... :)

http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=82519&stc=1&d=1308838177

[GaryMac]

OK, that was funny.... at least I got the answer before time ran out....

[GaryMac]

Nicolas... thanks for the input on the oil cooler... I'll see if I can make it fit that way.

Tonight I'll move the oil cooler and oil tank to new positions, and mock up some hoses to get a better feel for how it will actually plumb.

Resasi.... good comments on engine choices. We'll see how my choice works out.

Carl tells me that with the straight intakes for the carbs that he put on (instead of the 90 degree curved ones), that he could feel an increase in power, and feels that this HKS puts out about 64 HP. All of that is anecdotal, and not proven on a dyno, but hey, every little bit helps. And if Carl says it increased the power, I believe him. The only way to know for sure how it will perform for my bird will be the first flight! Well, not the only way.... I'll do a static thrust test, as well, to get an indication of available power / thrust.

[GaryMac]

Did a lot more reading on from the HKS installation manual.... glad I did, as I found two facts that are critical to my planning.

First, the oil tank must be mounted in a way where the top is within 5 inches vertically from the engine mount points.... so I have a total of about 10 inches that I can move the tank vertically and stay within installation specs..... After many trial fits, I have decided that the tank will mount on the right side of the engine mount.... I'll have to fab up some brackets to hold it appropriately, but this is about where it will end up...

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2006%2023%20Engine%20Accessories/P1060922.jpg

I'll have to use some 90 degree elbows immediately off the oil tank to avoid any conflict with the landing gear, but it looks doable.



The second important fact from the installation manual is that the oil cooler must be mounted lower than the oil tank..... so I fabbed up a mount and temporarily clamped it in place.... I'll play with the vertical positioning before I actually bolt it to the frame.

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2006%2023%20Engine%20Accessories/P1060937.jpg


And here it is on the frame..... I'll also do some type of attachment from the top of the oil cooler to the diagonal bars... using some sort of hose clamp / small bolt combination. Top and bottom attach points wil have rubber dampeners / grommets to help with vibration.

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2006%2023%20Engine%20Accessories/P1060938.jpg


http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2006%2023%20Engine%20Accessories/P1060940.jpg


That's all for tonight...

[scandtours]

Scandtours seems to fly his G1sa just fine on a 503 and I believe he is over 200 lbs (sorry scandtours).....

We'll see how it goes!!!

I was 225lbs but after two month of smoking I lost 15 lbs. Now I am 210.
I don't want to loose more so Ive finished smoking.

[StanFoster]

Gary- You are going to love that engine you bought from Carl. It is a real nice sounding engine, and it just sips fuel. I like your "get er done" improvisation as you are having to deal with designing and fabricating on the fly. That kind of building is the most fun. Keep up the good work. Stan

[GaryMac]

Stan.... you are right. I do like this part where I have to figure all of this out. In fact, the whole reason I'm doing this is that I wanted the challenge..... it's been a life long dream of mine to build an experimental aircraft.

This is definitely the time where progress looks slow. And I'm glad that I waited for powder coating due to my alternate engine choice. I can incorporate some of the engine mount mods that Nicolas wants me to do... and basically extend those brackets out to be the base attach point for the oil tank.

I'm actually thinking of buffing all of the aluminum, and using the Sharkhide coating that was discussed on the forum a while back..... not sure yet on that decision, but I can't seem to commit to a paint color, either!

[StanFoster]

Gary- I am convinced on powder coating. My Helicycle frame was all poweder coated and is it durable.

If you have seen Rick Martins powder coat job....it is the best I have seen.

I was told that it was powder coated once....but wasnt heavy enough and he had them put a second coat on.......and WOW with capital letters! It looks like it is wet. Rick...chime in here if I misunderstood you saying it had two powder coats on it.

I would like to have Johns Genesis super powder coated as well. It will probably be up into the fall before I get serious on it again. John is holding back part shipments for his so that his customers get theirs first. I think that is very commendable of John. Whenever I get the tail section to build, then I will proceed on again.

You and Brian are doing a beautiful job, and just dont let it feel like its a race between you two....cause all of a sudden you will be done with your build and you will actually miss it. My SparrowHawk took 503 hours and exactly 5 months to the day to build. I had all the parts and it was during the winter when I could hit it steady by coming in early every day almost. 5 months and it was out of my shop......and I missed working on it.

My Helicycle took 760 hours....but was stretched out over 2.5 years because of waiting on shipments. However, I really enjoyed that longer build as I had a lot to think through.

I have no desire to build anything else now at all...except to finish Johns Genesis.

Stan

[willisbr]

I should have weighed the parts prior to coating. I wonder the weight difference. It is indeed think stuff. Nicolas, have you done this? What's to be expected when considering paints and weights?

[Aviomania]

Brian yes i did powder coating and i asked for the thinnest durable coat. parts offset are within what enlarging 3/16" diam hole to 1/4".

the weight of powder he charged me ( he used) for 2 frames was 10 lbs.... so for each gyro will be around 4 lbs (some powder is lost.. or overcharged :) )... so for a thicker coat maybe 5-6 lbs.

When i say thinnest... it is still thicker than paint. I am away till Tuesday ... when i will be back i will measure the thickness of a coated tube and a bare one to find out the thickness of the P/C.

[gyromike]

My Bensen is all powdwercoated. Except for a few scratches and dings, it still looks new after I give it a bath.

I built the whole frame, then took it apart for powdercoating. Any added thickness was unnoticable. It went back together with no problems.

It was well worth it.

[StanFoster]

Mike- I still say that one picture of you with the clouds behind and below is one of my favorite alltime gyro pictures. That should be blown up 3 ft. x 5 ft and hung on the wall,,,,,imho!



Stan

[GaryMac]

Okay.... it seems that powder coating is the unanimous opinion of the forum, so that's what I'll go with.

Thanks for the feedback, guys.

Gary

[Aviomania]

Gary, Check your email regarding the prop.

[GaryMac]

Okay.... who says that gyro's can't stall??? My build has been stalled for a couple of weeks, but I will get started again shortly.

Just got back from my first trip to Hawaii.... while there I got my first ride in a helicopter. I'll say this... I can certainly understand the lure of flying a machine that can do this. Takeoffs and landings were great, and hovering in the valleys around the waterfalls will make a person appreciate what a helicopter is capable of doing.

Here's a few pics...

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/Hawaii%20Copter%20Pics/IMG_3322.jpg


http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/Hawaii%20Copter%20Pics/IMG_3273.jpg


http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/Hawaii%20Copter%20Pics/IMG_3261.jpg


So.... enough about vacation time.... it's time to "un-stall" the gyro build and get moving again. Should have some more aluminum (from Wickes this time) in the next few days to finish the engine mount and build the final support brackets needed for the oil tank and exhaust mounts. Once that's done... it will be tear down time and ready for the powder coating.

[choppergabor]

Awesome pics! At one time I was thinking to get a job on the Islands as a tour pilot but than again ..... you have to be friendly with the customers :) sooooo I gave up on the idea! Now go build something so we'll have pictures to stare at LOL :)

[GaryMac]

Got a package today.... my warp drive prop arrived. I had to put it together and stick it on the gyro, just to see how it looks.

Hub assembly.....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2007%2013%20Propeller%20Assembly/P1060941.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2007%2013%20Propeller%20Assembly/P1060942.jpg


Loosely mounted on the engine, just to get a visual. Keel clearance in just as I expected it to be. It's cool when things work out as planned.

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2007%2013%20Propeller%20Assembly/P1060945.jpg

The instructions say I need 6 drive lugs and a faceplate that is 1/4 to 3/8 inch thick. I didn't get those with my engine.... anybody got some of these that they would be willing to part with?

[willisbr]

Awesome Gary! Great feeling when critical shipments come in. :)
I got the same prop OTW myself. what's the lugs and plate for? HKS application?

[GaryMac]

Hey, Brian.

I'm not sure that I need the lugs...... hoping someone with more experience will chime in on this one.

The HKS propeller flange is threaded, and the bolts seem to go through the prop hub and into the threaded propeller flange just fine. I don't see how a drive lug could fit in this installation, but the Warp Drive instructions clearly show them as needed.

The faceplate apparently goes on the outside of the prop hub.... I'm sure to provide a more even crush force on prop hub when it is torqued down. The length of the bolts certainly look to be long enough to need a faceplate to take up some of the slack. Again, the instructions say that the faceplate normally comes with the engine, but I don't have one. I will definitely need one.

[choppergabor]

Looking good Gary/ One more essential piece for the gyro to fly! :) Little more to go an almost in the air!

[All_In]

Sweet... Nice prop buddy and looks like you had fun in Hawaii!!!

Way to play!

PS:
Are you going to Mentone?

[WHY]

Hi Gary

Does the back of the prop hub have recesses in the bolt holes ??? Drive lugs are "shoulder nuts with collars" that protrude thru the prop flange and into the back of the prop hub. They take the "drive" load and not the bolts, the bolts just hold the prop on.

Tony

[GaryMac]

Tony,

No, the back of the prop hub does not have recesses. The holes in the hub are threaded, as well, which wouldn't make sense (at least to me) if lugs are really needed.

[WHY]

HI Gary

Ok, if there are no recess in the back of the bolt holes, then I am like you, don't see anyway drive lugs can be required. what size are the bolts ?

Tony

[GaryMac]

Tony,

Here's the info straight from the HKS installation manual..... Right now I'm planning on using the six 8mm bolts with 1.25 threads.

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2007%2013%20Propeller%20Assembly/PropHubInfo.jpg

[GaryMac]

It's shaping up to be a good weekend..... got my metal order from Wickes today. Hopefully I'll finish the engine mount and oil tank brackets and start the dis-assembly for powder coating.

My current thought is to go with something very similar to a "Little Nellie" color scheme. Not exactly like it, but heavily influenced by it. Mainly yellow, with white and black accents. All the silver in the "Little Nellie" paint scheme would go back to a yellow color on my bird. I also plan for the entire rudder to be a white / black checkerboard pattern.

What do you think?

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2007%2013%20Propeller%20Assembly/LittleNellie.jpg

[GaryMac]

Today I cleaned and organized the work shop, so I could get serious about working on the gyro again.

Then I pulled the engine and oil cooler off so I could work on the engine and oil tank mounts. I needed to incorporate a change that Nicolas suggested, which fit into my need to create an oil tank bracket.

Nicolas had suggested that I get rid of the 1/2 inch bar on the bottom of my engine mount, and replace it with two 1/4 inch bars. One on top and one on bottom to sandwich the assembly together. While doing this, I made these pieces longer to form the attach points for the oil tank.

Here's the new mount, using the sandwich method.

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2007%2016%20Oil%20Tank%20Mount/P1060957.jpg

Here's the oil tank bracket that I came up with....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2007%2016%20Oil%20Tank%20Mount/P1060963.jpg


And from the front....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2007%2016%20Oil%20Tank%20Mount/P1060962.jpg


And with the oil tank loosely strapped in place.....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2007%2016%20Oil%20Tank%20Mount/P1060964.jpg

I will add some rubber on the inside of the angle piece... to isolate the tank from the structure and vibration some.

I'm a little concerned with my mounting method, so I would like some opinions.... Does it concern any of you experienced builders about the way I cut slots in the angle for the hose clamp brackets to go through?

BTW.... the hose clamp brackets in the pictures are temporary.... I will be getting some heavier duty steel clamps for final assembly.

[willisbr]

Why not weld the bracket to the tank you could still get your bolt in there and you could also drill some lightening holes in it for weight reduction and looks. Would look really nice. I like the sandwich idea.

[willisbr]

After looking closer, I would definitely weld it if you could. Also you may need a bottom support if you stay with clamps? Looks like it could sag or come out over time. Not worth the risk if a clamp fails.

[GaryMac]

Hey, Brian. Thanks for the idea. I may have to go with finding a welder, as I'm not all that satisfied with what I have come up with.

I have a call into my local HKS guy, to get the original type mounting brackets. If that doesn't work out, then I guess welding would be the next best choice available.

[Resasi]

Gary had a quick look for it haven't found it. What diameter Warp have you gone for?

[Dirtydog]

GaryMac :
I would like to say you doing a great job from the looks of it. Lots of fun.

[GaryMac]

Leigh.... It is a 64" prop, which is the biggest prop that the Genesis is designed for.

Chris..... good thoughts on the clamps.... I've already got some of the rubber coated clamps that you posted, which I plan to use on the top oil cooler mounts, and possibly the muffler mounts. My HKS rep will let me know today what type of mounting brackets and clamps he has that might help me out.

I did a little more on the engine mount last night.... a couple more hours, and I will start the dis-assembly process.

[GaryMac]

It's amazing how quick you can take something apart, isn't it?

I needed to pull the engine mount off to do some more work on it, and one thing led to another, as far as getting ready for powder coating..... I had the gyro almost completely dis-assembled in about 1.5 hours.

Here's what it looks like now.....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2007%2020%20Disassembly%20and%20Split%20Mast/P1060977.jpg


I'm toying with the idea of building an additional mast..... this one will be a folding mast. I haven't made the final decision on which way to go, but now is the time to build one if I'm ever going to want one.... that way both masts can go to powder coat at the same time.

I'm copying the method that Chris (DirtyDog) used on his bee. I also have some questions on this topic that I have sent to Nicolas, just to make sure he's OK with this direction. I did go ahead and start on the lower part of the folding mast, but I need input from Nicolas before I can go much further.

My original plan was to take the upper cheek plates and rotor head off when I need to transport the gyro, but it's pretty tall even with those removed. It certainly won't fit in the covered trailer that I have, which is only 6 foot 6 inches tall. I would also like to buy a toy hauler RV one day, and I don't think it will fit in one of those either, without a folding mast.


Matching the bottoms of the folding mast with the solid mast....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2007%2020%20Disassembly%20and%20Split%20Mast/P1060981.jpg


Clamped in place, and bottom holes being aligned and drilled.....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2007%2020%20Disassembly%20and%20Split%20Mast/P1060982.jpg


Another picture of the folding mast being constructed....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2007%2020%20Disassembly%20and%20Split%20Mast/P1060985.jpg


I figure by the end of the weekend, I'll have everything to the point where I can take it to the powder coater.

[Aviomania]

Gary..
i do not like folding masts but if you need to do one the safest way is to have the folding hinge AS HIGH AS POSSIBLE.

maximum stress point and flexing of mast is just above the seat bracket. If you make the joint there... you will weaken the mast and reduce its flexibility... both bad decisions.
The only good thing about low split hinge is that you can attache the walking beams just behind the seat and then you do not have to disconnect the push rods.

now if you put the hinge as high as you can ( to fit in the trailer) you will retain most of the flexing and strength of the mast. the only downside is that you will need to be removing the push rods. If you put walking beams up there it will be draggy and "not pretty".... but it can be done.

[GaryMac]

Thanks for the input, Nicolas. I don't really want a folding mast either, but if I ever want to take the gyro on a road trip (like Mentone or Bensen Days), it would be great to fit in an enclosed trailer.

I think for now I will stick with the original mast, and worry about other modifications later.

Nicolas..... what is the proper distance in inches from the floor to the keel, at the point where the keel bends upward? My gyro is riding high right now (making it taller than it should be), but I don't kow by how much because I don't have the shocks.

If you can provide that measurement, I can gauge what the actual height of the gyro will be...... it might actually be able to roll out of the garage (right now, it can't).

Thanks for your help.

Gary

[StanFoster]

Gary- I just measured the distance off of the one I am building for John. The keel at the bend is 7.5 inches off the floor. Just for fun, I measured the very top of the cheek plates at the front....and they are 89.25 inches off the floor. It has the new suspension gear.

Stan

[GaryMac]

Thanks, Stan.

Is that 7.5 inches from the floor to the top of the keel, or the bottom of the keel?

[Aviomania]

Garry.. and Stan..
on the plans with detailed photos it shows that the spring tube (from shock mount hole to rod end hole is 32" - 32.5" UNCOMPRESSED....it should be 31.5" -32" when installed and supports the gyro's weight.... this will give 3" -3.5" from the bottom of the keel... maybe 4" if the pilot is not on the gyro.

I would recommend to cut the tube so that it is a bit longer, slide the shock in the tube, sit on the gyro and confirm that you have at 3" from the bottom of the keel bend. once you find the proper length then drill the shock and tube for the fitting bolt. minor adjustments can be made with the rod end.

for now make a hole 32" from the center of the rod end to the top of the suspension tube (you will cut it shorter later to install the shock).... that should give you an idea as to where the gyro will sit.

check your email for more details.

[willisbr]

Nicolas, should we have the engine, prop, and rotors on there when taking this measurement from the bend?

Can you include me in that email as well? I have cut my tube to 32+ for now, awaiting shocks.

[StanFoster]

Gary- It is 7.5 inches to the bottom of the keel at the bend off the floor. Stan

[GaryMac]

I continued to work on all the things I can think of that I want to get done before taking the frame for powder coating.

I really want all of the holes in the keel in place before powder coating.... the more I do now, the less scratches I'll put into the finish later.

As I worked on the keel, I discovered that I had done a poor job on the suspension drag links..... the holes did not align at all, and it was not fixable, as you can see in this picture.....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2007%2023%20Keel%20Prep/P1060996.jpg

So I remade them..... I've learned alot about hole drilling as this build has progressed, so my next set of drag links came out great.... All holes aligned and bolted to the keel.

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2007%2023%20Keel%20Prep/P1070002.jpg


I also recieved the new oil tank mounting brackets and hardware.... I modified my mount slightly to use these brackets, instead of the aluminum angle I had used before. Now I am happy with the result....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2007%2023%20Keel%20Prep/P1070003.jpg


And one with the oil tank strapped in place....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2007%2023%20Keel%20Prep/P1070007.jpg

I've got a little more work on the keel, but I need to go buy a reamer to enlarge some of the holes to 1/4 inch from the 3/16 inch temporary bolt size. Some of these I can do before powder coating, but most will have to wait until after powder coating so I can account for the paint thickness.

Not sure if I'll get to work on the gyro on Sunday or not..... but I'm very close to taking it to the powder coat guy. Then, on to re-assembly!!!

[StanFoster]

Looking good Gary. We all make mistakes fabricating, either by mismeasuring, drill runout, etc. But you aren't just fixing your mistake and making a 2nd mistake by just wollering a drill bit through the pieces. Your build is coming along nicely . You and Brian proibably will have both flying this year. Stan

[willisbr]

This is funny Gary because I am remade these brackets as well. My misalignment was through the keel however. So I have to send the misalignment through all three pieces from the keel. Challenging. It was off by millimeters. I'll shoot a pic on here later. Perfect alignment through four pieces is quite a challenge. For those following along, I would say this is one of the most challenging of measurements because of the pieces and sizes involved.

[Friendly]

What capacity is the oil tank and what size are the inlets. That is a nice tank

[GaryMac]

Mark,

The oil tank is not as big as it looks in the pictures.... its about 6 inches diameter and 10 inches tall.

The entire oil capacity for the system is 3 liters (per the manual).... not sure how much of that is in the tank, versus the lines and the engine itself.

The oil lines, and inlets, etc. are 1/2 inch I.D.

Hope that helps.

[choppergabor]

Gary you are doing a very nice job! That tank sure did look gigantic on the picture not having anything around it to be compared to..... :) 3 liters tank is not that big I agree. Looking good buddy :)

[Dirtydog]

GaryMac : All of us have a box of shame parts. But this is what gabor said to alway make sure that you measure twice and cut only one time. This keeps the box from over flowing.....:yo: I think you are doing great.just stopped by to look in......:rolleyes:

I don't knowit matters but I thing I would place the brackets facingup so if the Hose clamps did come loose they wouldn't fall off... Just a thought.....:tape:

[Friendly]

Gary,
Did you build the tank, or did it come with your engine. I like the tank.

[GaryMac]

Mark.... No way I could build something so nice. It came with the HKS engine.

You can buy it from them seperately, but it's over $500 bucks.

Here's the link, if you are interested.

http://shop.apsu-hks.com/product.sc?productId=58&categoryId=6

[choppergabor]

GaryMac : All of us have a box of shame parts. But this is what gabor said to alway make sure that you measure twice and cut only one time. This keeps the box from over flowing.....:yo:
Well since I had invented the concept of the "box of shame" I also had figured out what to use the messed up parts for. I sold the pile to good ole Frank. I have heard they make the R22s from that pile ROFL :boink::boink::boink::boink:

[GaryMac]

LOL.... let's hope that I only make enough "parts of shame" to build one R22.... I can't afford to build two of them.

[StanFoster]

If one doesn't have any scrap made from mistakes, the that person is either doing nothing, or is lying! I find much value in my bucket-o-aluminum. Handy source of materiall to make smaller parts out of. Stan

[WHY]

When you get to barrels of shame or pickup beds full of shame, then are a real experimenter !!

Tony

[Brent_Brown]

I would say I am a experimenter if that is the shane o meter.

[gyromike]

I guess I'm an experimenter too.
I usually say I have barrels of 'lessons learned'.
:D

[Dirtydog]

GaryMac : Yea I had a bucket not long ago now I working on the 30 gallon drum. But you learn as you go even with the new machine I bought a few months ago.

Speaking of which does 6061 bring any more money than 6063 for scape money? Anyone know.

[Passin' Thru]

In my shop there is NO SCRAP! It's all potiential other parts!:lol:

[GaryMac]

LOL.... I'm going with Pete Johnson on this one. I have no scrap, just pieces that could be used for other small parts as I need them.

Continued work on dis-assembly tonight. Not really picture worthy, but I'll post a few just because....

Mainly I pulled the engine mount apart, and did quite a bit of filing to smooth things out.

Engine mount in it's many pieces....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2007%2025%20Engine%20Mount%20Disassembly/P1070008.jpg


I drilled alot of lightening holes in the spacer blocks, making sure not to take so much that the structural integrity would be suspect. I made 1/2 inch holes.... amazing how much aluminum twirly pieces come out of each hole.

Drilling the "lightening" holes....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2007%2025%20Engine%20Mount%20Disassembly/P1070009.jpg


Like I said.... not much worth taking pictures of, but I am closing in on taking it to powder coating. I hope to do that on Wednesday.

[Dirtydog]

Passin' Thru : See he has the right Idea about scrap....."amazing how much aluminum twirly pieces come out of each hole" I have a whole vac. cleaner bag full of it. And the other bigger parts do go into a box to make smaller parts...

GaryMac : I see you have your ready to clean up the work area too. how much is in there?

[GaryMac]

Hey, Chris.

If you are talking about my little shop vac..... I empty it out every two weeks.

Cutting and drilling makes tons of chips, that's for sure. Even though I clean up the area often, I find that I track the chips all over the place. Its in the house, in the carpets, just can't seem to keep that from happening. So far the wife hasn't complained.

[willisbr]

Gary is that piece of bar wet? What are you using?

[GaryMac]

Brian,

On big holes that I drill, I sometimes use a little WD40 on the drill bit. I mostly only do that only when drilling through steel, but I also did it when I drilled these lightening holes.

I don't normally use WD40 on most aluminum drill holes, though.

[JEFF TIPTON]

Have you tried Kerosene for the drill lubricant. I am sure Stan won't mind.

[Penguin]

Even though I clean up the area often, I find that I track the chips all over the place. Its in the house, in the carpets, just can't seem to keep that from happening. So far the wife hasn't complained.

Does your wife have a single sister?
Be thankful!

[GaryMac]

Hey, Larry..... she does have a sister, but she's not available.

Spent some time working on the axle bushings that hold the wheels on.....

It comes as one piece, so I simply cut it in half with a hack saw, so each bushing is 1 1/16" long.

When the wheels and bushings are assembled, I need to know how much the axle should stick out.... my two main gears have different length axles. One has about 3/8 inch axle protruding past the bushing, the other has 1 1/4 inches protruding. This dimension is needed to make sure the wheel pants fit properly, later.

Nicolas, or Stan, can you provide some guidance on how long the axle should be?

Here's a pic of what I'm talking about.....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2007%2027%20Wheel%20Attachment%20to%20Axles/P1070027.jpg

I'd like to get the axle lengths cut, as this is one of the last things before powder coating.

[GaryMac]

Okay..... I have done all I can think of to do, prior to powder coating. So tomorrow after work, the gyro pieces get loaded up and off they go.

I did go ahead and cut down the long axle to the length of the short axle..... at least they are even now...

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2007%2027%20Wheel%20Attachment%20to%20Axles/P1070048.jpg

And heres all the pieces..... they are sorted by side of gyro.... that way I make sure that left and right pieces don't get crossed up, hopefully. I will box them up by side, and by color..... all the main tubes will be one color, and all the brackets and plates will be another color.

And finally, at the 96 hour build mark, it is ready....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2007%2027%20Wheel%20Attachment%20to%20Axles/P1070045.jpg

This calls for a celebration.... It is definitely Miller Time!!!....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2007%2027%20Wheel%20Attachment%20to%20Axles/P1070049.jpg

[willisbr]

Great to hear Gary! How did you cut the steal axle? Will a pipe cutter work or just use a hack?

Will you separate the split mast or have it painted as is?

[GaryMac]

Hey, Brian.

I used a hack saw.... wasn't that hard, at all.

I will seperate the mast and have each 1 x 2 powder coated separately.

Thanks, Gary

[StanFoster]

Gary- You are going at your build like you have built a few gyros before. Looking forward to seeing the rest of your build when you get your parts back. Stan

[Aviomania]

Gary the axles are random length. We use 2 types of wheels... depending if it is for rough fields or grass / tarmac runways so you have to cut them depending on the wheels.

you will cut the axle were the wheel retaining bushing tube finishes... and you will insert the nylon hat inside the axle for the wheel pant to be screwed on.

[GaryMac]

Thanks, Nicolas. I'll do that.

[willisbr]

Nicolas, so cut the bushing material directly in half, then cut the axle flush up to the bushing?

[Aviomania]

The bushing is also supplied in random length. 1" to 1.25" each should be the size. It can even be 1.5".

the deference in length will adjust the width of the wheel slot on the wheel pant. it is not critical.

If the shaft is cut to short and the wheel pant interferes with the tire, you can cut a plywood disk or more and stuck them together and five minute them INSIDE the wheel pant. this will give the clearance between the tire and wheel pant. This is not required.. but i mentioned it just in case. do not forget to move the pant left or right before you make the hole for the axle screw on the pant so it will not interfere with the tire.

ALSO... before making the holes on the second pant... have a look from the front and the side and align both pants.. so they look symmetrical.

[GaryMac]

It's all up to the powder coat guy now..... I should have all the pieces back by next Friday, so I have a week of downtime to NOT work on the gyro.

I guess I'll start planning the panel and instruments that I want during this time. Feel like a fish out of water with no gyro to work on.

[choppergabor]

Gary come over I'll give yah plenty to do if you have the urge and desire....I'll feed ya with Millah! :)

[GaryMac]

LOL, Gabor.... be there in about 14 hours.... I prefer Coors Light, but Millah will do in a pinch.

You should let me paint your gyro for you. I painted several of my smaller pieces.... let's just say I told the powder coat guy to bead blast them, powder coat them, and make them look nice. I obviously need more practice painting, so I'll practice on YOUR gyro. Deal?

[choppergabor]

ROFL .............. oh man I had such a good laugh :) Thanks for that. On the second though......how are you doing with cutting and grinding and all the other skills? LOL. Oh man I am still laughing............ I'll just serve yah Coors Light if you promise not to touch anything hahaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[willisbr]

Gary I'll be keeping an eye on your panel ideas as I am completely stumped. I keep changing my mind as far as what I want. So if you are batting some ideas around, don't be shy to post. I need to male a decision soon as well. :)

Hey Gabor!

[GaryMac]

Sure thing, Brian. To tell the truth, I've been going back and forth on what I want, as well. Everything from a full glass panel to just the basics....

I'll probably try to keep it basic to begin with. In my opinion, a real cockpit has some steam gauges in it, so I'll at least have conventional airspeed and altimeter gauges, backed up with some of the MGL multi-function instruments.

I'll post more on the subject when I get it figured out.

[WHY]

Hi Gary

If I understand things right, the panel is removable so, if you put in a panel and change your mind later, you just replace the panel :) :)

Tony

[StanFoster]

Gary- I forgot to answer your question about being able to remove the pod away from the instrument panel so you could have easy access. You could do this, but it would involve removing lots of bolts, etc. The panel if it had a nice long loop of wiring harness, can be easily lifted out and set face down for easy access. I wired my Helicycle that way, and is that ever handy! I am planning on getting some cable for Johns that will have more wires that you will need. I wired my Helicycle with several extra wires for future upgrades or changes. I am glad I did as I have been adding extra circuits and the wires were already in the harness with blank labels just waiting for me to tell them what they arre doing. Stan

[GaryMac]

Had some difficulty getting the proper color of powder coat..... apparently they won't ship it over the weekends, as they don't want it sitting in a hot warehouse. Anybody heard of this before?

Anyway, it will be next week before I get my parts back, so project work is on-hold until then.

Nicolas is sending me my next set of parts soon..... fuel tank, stick assembly, shocks, and some more build videos for those pieces. Hopefully these parts will arrive about the time I get my powder coated frame parts back, and they can all be assembled in one pass.

We'll see how it goes next week. Wish I was up in Mentone this week.... looks like everyone is having a good time up there.

[GaryMac]

If I only had a keel.....

Getting this thing powder coated is turning into a challenge. What was supposed to be a one week job turned into two weeks.

I went to pick it up this morning and everything looked great..... except the keel. His oven can only handle pieces up to 8 feet, so he had another company do the keel in a larger oven. Very poor job on the keel, so it has to go back and be redone.

So, at least another week will go by while I wait for that. At least all of the other parts look great. All I need is the keel so I can start bolting things back together!!

[scottessex]

Most powder coating shops just do industrial type stuff, it can be frustrating.
I have had good luck with powder coating shops that specialize in automotive and motorcycle powder coat. They realize that it is about how it looks rather than corrosion prevention only.
Good luck!

[GaryMac]

Scott.... that's the situation exactly.

The guy I'm using does custom wheels and motorcycle frames and such. All of the parts he did look fantastic.

The one piece he could not do because it was too long.... well that was done by someone who thought laying down 1mm of color in a haphazard fashion ought to be good enough. We'll see if they get it right on the second try.

[GaryMac]

Here's a few pics..... I changed my mind from a yellow and white color combination to a maroon and white.

I'm an Aggie, after all, so all the main tubes are a deep maroon and all the plates and brackets are white. Still will have black accent lines and a black / white checkerboard rudder behind a maroon vertical stabilizer.

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2008%2013%20Powder%20Coating/P1070053.jpg


Here's the engine mount, with the pieces layed together.....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2008%2013%20Powder%20Coating/P1070055.jpg


Front fork and another piece to show the maroon color a little better....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2008%2013%20Powder%20Coating/P1070057.jpg

[choppergabor]

WOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW that looks awesome Gary. Jealous here big time! They look superb. I also like the Burgundy white combination. Good choice my friend. Very nice looking buncha aluminum :)

[scottessex]

Nice!
Here is an Idea for your Glass panel.
Probably lots cheaper too.

http://www.generalaviationnews.com/2011/01/17/wireless-in-flight-engine-data-now-available-for-icub/

[GaryMac]

Got my keel back tonight, and it looks great. Now on to re-assembly!

[GaryMac]

I managed to get about 4 hours of time on the gyro tonight..... I haven't had much time in the last week, as my dad has been having some health problems and I've been helping out with that.

I started the re-assembly process, using the proper AN hardware this time. I'm still using temporary nuts, as I expect to take it apart and remove all the metal shavings from the drilling / reaming process.

Step one was to get all my AN hardware sorted and ready to go.....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2008%2019%20Re%20Assembly/P1070078.jpg

Then I spent the rest of the evening adding the plates back to the keel, first attaching with the smaller temporary bolts, and then drilling/reaming one hole at a time for the AN bolts. It went pretty fast....

Here's the front end.....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2008%2019%20Re%20Assembly/P1070069.jpg


Here's the mast support and mast attachments...... I still have some temp bolts in this pic, as my cordless drill is out of power, and I left my charger at my dad's house.

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2008%2019%20Re%20Assembly/P1070075.jpg


Another pic of the frame in it's current state..... I'm really liking the color combination so far.

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2008%2019%20Re%20Assembly/P1070077.jpg


So far, I have not found where the powder coating has changed the hole alignments enough to make any difference. I was really worried about that, but so far it has not been an issue.


I hope to have it back on it's wheels by the end of the weekend.

That's all for now.

[choppergabor]

Looking really good my friend. That powder coating sure looks sharp and it is also durable. I wonder how quick you can get her back together:) It is fun watching this build for sure!

[GaryMac]

Got some more shop time in today.... it didn't go as fast as I hoped, so the gyro is not on it's gear yet.

Just alot of hole enlarging, reaming, and fitting today.

Here's the frame at the end of the day..... won't be long before the gear and seat are back on it, so I can sit in it and make engine noises again.

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2008%2021%20Re%20Assembly/P1070101.jpg

And another....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2008%2021%20Re%20Assembly/P1070102.jpg

Here's the reason it took so long today..... after all this tube drilling in place, I had to basically pull it all apart again to get the shavings out of the tubes......

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2008%2021%20Re%20Assembly/P1070092.jpg

Took a little work to get the nose assembly pieces to line up..... powder coating must have moved my holes a little bit... Nothing too major, just time consuming.

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2008%2021%20Re%20Assembly/P1070099.jpg

[WHY]

Hi Gary

Could not figure out what it is about your paint scheme that I liked so well until today. The contrast paint scheme that you have used accentuates and amplifies the connection points of the design construction, absolutely fantastic !!!

Tony

[GaryMac]

Thanks, Tony.

And here I thought I was just using my college colors (Texas A&M).

[GaryMac]

2 hours in the garage tonight, but not alot to show for it.

I got the rudder pedal support bar, and the front nose pod support bracket installed....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2008%2023%20Re%20Assembly/P1070103.jpg

I'm going to have the nose pod support bracket powder coated white later, when I take in the throttle quadrant pieces.


I also got the upper seat support block drilled out and mounted.... this was a challenge to get it drilled straight and true, but somehow it all lined up in the end....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2008%2023%20Re%20Assembly/P1070105.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2008%2023%20Re%20Assembly/P1070106.jpg


And some potentially exciting news.... I might have some dual training lined up for Thursday night in the MTOSport that Desmon Butts has started training in.... hopefully that will work out, so I can get a flying fix in. It's been right at 2 years since I did my 6.9 hours with Steve McGowan. I know that I'll be basically starting over, but training hours are never wasted.

[willisbr]

This is looking super sharp Gary. Love the two tone system you have going. Great idea.

[choppergabor]

Hey Gary 2 hours of work in the garage had put you that much closer to be flying that nice machine of yours. I really dig the powder coating. Since I am painting I know how much nicer the powder coating looks and how much more durable it is compared to paint. Once mine flies I might just take it apart again and have it powder coated too. :) Looking good Gary looking really good!

[GaryMac]

Thanks for the nice comments, guys. I appreciate it.

Gabor, if I were you I'd fly it like it is for a year, and then consider powder coating during the first annual inspection.

[choppergabor]

That is pretty much the plan for now :) I love the powder coating on yours. Very nice!

[GaryMac]

And another 2 hours tonight.... at least it was cooler in the garage than normal.

Got the engine mount completely re-assembled, using AN4 bolts everywhere. To use a phrase that someone else used.... it is now "built for combat".

Lining up the spacer blocks.....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2008%2024%20Re%20Assembly/P1070109.jpg


http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2008%2024%20Re%20Assembly/P1070110.jpg

And the fully assembled mount....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2008%2024%20Re%20Assembly/P1070117.jpg


http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2008%2024%20Re%20Assembly/P1070118.jpg

That's it for tonight.... and tomorrow night I won't be building.... I'm scheduled for two hours of training with Desmon in his MT03!

[choppergabor]

Good job. Have fun flying :) It will give you a boost to work harder to finish yours :) Looking very good. Every little 2 hours gets you ahead Gary. Keep doing those 2 hour thingies!

[farmer jim]

Hay, Gary -

VERY NICE LOOKING BUILD ! Chris & I are looking forward to maybe/probably meeting you this weekend @ Bridgeport.

farmer jim

[GaryMac]

Hey, Farmer Jim. Hopefully I will be at Bridgeport this weekend, and if so, would love to meet you and talk gyros.

I'll get 2 hours with Desmon on Thursday night at Propwash Airport in Justin, but it sounds like he'll be busy with you and your wife on Friday and Saturday. I'll find out for sure if he has any time for me on Saturday when I meet him tomorrow.

I'm really looking forward to it!! I haven't been up in gyro in a little over 2 years.

[farmer jim]

Gday, GM -

Chris & I are due Bridgeport 4-6 pm Friday, (26 Aug) my phone is 316 435 2238.

Love to meetcha.

fj

[GaryMac]

Well...... good news all around. I got to add 2 hours to my logbook, I had a great time flying the MTOSport with Desmon, and his gyro is still in one piece!!

I really enjoyed flying the MTOSport. It seemed rock solid in the air, and was fairly easy to get the hang of.

Most of the flying tonight had a 90 degree cross wind to the runway, so I got a workout on how to line up and keep it straight in those conditions. Did OK, I guess, but the last 30 minutes as the sun was going down and the winds died down were the best. My last 3 approaches for T&Gs were great.

I may get a little more time in on Saturday..... I'm like 3rd on the list for that day, and Desmon needs to work with the people who booked him first. We'll see, but I did have a blast tonight, and am ready to get my gyro into the air!!!

Woo Hoo!!! Very pumped, right now.

[choppergabor]

Good ole adrenaline ay? Good for you Gary. I know the feeling. Right now everything is just fine right???? LOL

[Ghetto Wash]

Most of the flying tonight had a 90 degree cross wind to the runway, so I got a workout on how to line up and keep it straight in those conditions.

I flew my powered parachute from my land near Propwash yesterday afternoon. I am adjacent to JW Airport (2TX7). I was airborn at about 7:00pm and was planning on heading over to Propwash to watch you fly from my birds eye view as I have seen gyros, but never seen one fly. Was looking forward to it. I only have North/South runways and PPC's are VERY difficult in any cross winds. As you said there was a 90 degree cross wind and after the difficulty I had taking off I decided to put it right back down and pack it up. Wish I had been able to watch you fly.

I will be heading to Bridgeport this afternoon to watch Chris and Jim with Desmon. Hopefully get to see my first gyro flight.

Glad you got some flight time.

[GaryMac]

Hey, GW. I was in the air from 6 to 8. We spent the first hour about 4 to 5 miles NW of propwash, and the rest of the time was pattern work.

Get out to Bridgeport..... you'll get to see Desmon fly the MTOSport, and probably some of Larry's work in his hanger. I'll bet you could even get some time with Desmon. I thought it was well worth it, and Desmon seems like a good instructor... I will do more time with him in the future. He mentioned that he would be coming back to north Texas in the near future.

I'm still undecided on if I will get out to Bridgeport this weekend.... that was one of the reasons I got as much time as I could on Thursday night.

[GaryMac]

Another hour in the garage tonight. I got the engine mount and the upper shock support brackets done.

Here's my fancy fuselage jig, that keeps it from falling over while I work on it....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2008%2029%20Re%20Assembly/P1070135.jpg


Here's a couple of shots of the engine mount on the frame......

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2008%2029%20Re%20Assembly/P1070131.jpg


http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2008%2029%20Re%20Assembly/P1070133.jpg

Now it's on to re-mounting the main gear and the nose gear.

[choppergabor]

Another hour of progress Gary :) Home building means using all available (and whatever you can get away with) furniture and household items to prop up, lean against, and hang on :)

[GaryMac]

A little more progress tonight.

I got the drum brakes mounted, and the main gear put back in place... I still have some adjustments to make to the drag links, but it looks like everything will fall into place.

Drum brake mounted on axle.....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2008%2031%20Re%20Assembly/P1070138.jpg


Main gear tubes back on.....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2008%2031%20Re%20Assembly/P1070139.jpg


Current state of the frame...... almost ready to sit on and pretend to fly, again.

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2008%2031%20Re%20Assembly/P1070142.jpg

[GaryMac]

Still chipping away at it.....

Got the toe-in / out set on the main gear and the drag links completely done... Used a carpenters square to get it close.... and will fine tune it once I mount the shocks.

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2009%2003%20Re%20Assembly/P1070143.jpg


Drag linkage fitted and done.....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2009%2003%20Re%20Assembly/P1070148.jpg


Nicolas said that when fully loaded, the low point on the keel should be 3.5 to 4 inches above the ground, so I lowered my setup to match that, just to see if I can get this gyro out of the garage..... made it with an inch to spare!!!

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2009%2003%20Re%20Assembly/P1070161.jpg


http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2009%2003%20Re%20Assembly/P1070160.jpg


http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2009%2003%20Re%20Assembly/P1070163.jpg


I should be getting the fuel tank, shocks, and control stick this week, so that will be next area of focus, along with re-mounting the engine.

[WHY]

MMaaaaaann I know one thing,----it's gonna be a judges nightmare at Mentone next year cause there is gonna be some super serious fine moosheens.

Tony

[choppergabor]

I second Stan's statement. I enjoy watching that jewel come together Gary. You are doing a mighty good job :)

[GaryMac]

Thanks, guys.

It is my hope to finish this gyro, complete training, fly off the 40 hours, and take this gyro to Mentone next year.

We'll see if I am able to get all of that done. I'm booked for 2 more hours with Desmon in the MTOsport next Thursday evening. Can't wait to shoot some more T&G's.

[Minnesota_Mike]

Very nice work Gary....I'm drooling too...!

It'll be sweet (not to state yet again the obvious...!)

M-M.

[GaryMac]

I added another two hours to my logbook tonight, flying the MTOsport with Desmon in Bridgeport.

Did pretty well, but still have a long way to go before I can call myself a pilot.

In a reverse of my last training session, I did really well at touch and gos, but my turns around a point really sucked tonight. Seemed like I was one step behind the gyro during those maneuvers. Definitely need more practice.

Took a few pics with my phone before getting started.... Desmon has a nice ship.

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2009%2008%20MTOSport%20Training/012.jpg


http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2009%2008%20MTOSport%20Training/020.jpg


Desmon was using Larry Neal's hanger at Bridgeport.... so I got to see what's going on there. Larry was kind enough to wheel out the big tandem with the new, super powerful electric pre-rotator, just to show me how it works. It was VERY impressive to watch. He's a great guy, and a pleasure to talk to.

[GaryMac]

Time to get back to work..... I received the fuel tank, shocks, instrument panel, and control stick today. I should also have the parts for the tail structures sometime next week, hopefully.

I expect to get some time in tonight adding these features. I've been holding off on re-mounting the engine until I had the shocks, as I did not want to have to remove the engine when the shocks arrived.

I also have a big Aircraft Spruce order built up in the shopping cart.... once I can verify exactly how far away the instrument panel will be (can I really push buttons on it while flying?), I'll get the instruments ordered.

Time to get back at it. I haven't done much in the last "two weeks".

[willisbr]

Awesome Gary. No slip from the post office for me. Maybe tomorrow.

[GaryMac]

Well, it feels good to work on the gyro again.

I got the control stick mounted, but somehow I have mis-placed my longer AN4 bolts, so its just temporary until I order (or find) the right bolts.

I used the back bolt positions that I had already put in the keel to position the stick, and then clamped the front of the stick assembly to the keel, using the front attachment block as a guide for the front hole placement..... worked like a charm.

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2009%2014%20Control%20Stick/P1070167.jpg

Just to show how OCD I can be, I had to remove the front wheel assembly so I could snake a hose down the keel and vacuum out the shavings from drilling those two holes. If I hadn't done that.... it would have bothered me forever.

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2009%2014%20Control%20Stick/P1070168.jpg


Final stick assembly on gyro.....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2009%2014%20Control%20Stick/P1070173.jpg


Then I moved on to trial fitting the fuel tank..... I've got some fit issues that I need to work through.... the tank won't quite lay down on the diagonal tubes like it should, and it is rubbing the front seat mounts. Need to think how I'm going to fix this situation, without having to make new diagonal tubes....

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/GaryTexas1/2011%2009%2014%20Control%20Stick/P1070175.jpg

More work on this this weekend.....

[choppergabor]

Looking sharp :) I can see how the fuel tank not sitting exact yet. Not being able to feel the stiffness of it I wonder if having some weight would make it sink into position.....