serenity aviation spacewalker

[WHY]

Just got my latest issue of CONTACT magazine (www.contactmagazine.com) with the lead story about the "spacewalker" airplane, adapted to the 9 cylinder Rotec radial engine. Now while this is a 1930's style fixed wing open cockpit tanden cockpit aircraft, when I saw this story with all the pictures my blood pressure went off scale. If I was not already heavy into the present tractor project I would be on this thing like a junkyard dog on a soup bone. If you get this magazine you will note that in the pictures and in the text it mentions that the design has a "center section" wing set up. Just visualize moving the main gear out to the ends of the center section, putting the fuel tanks in the center section, shorten the fuselage about 2 feet, put a low profile tail on and a pylon for the rotor and LOOK OUT 1930's autogyro, just run a fever thinking about it.

Tony

[helipaddy]

This the machine Tony?

http://serenityaviation.com/home/mambots/content/multithumb/images/b.800.600.0.0..stories.spacewalker.photos.sw_on_wh eels_(large).jpg

http://www.rotecradialengines.com/0MartinHone/16-42Static.jpg


http://www.rotecradialengines.com/0MartinHone/16-53Flying.jpg

Beautiful Machine

[WHY]

Aye Padraic

That it is and what a beauty she is, what a gyro that would make !!

Tony

[kolibri282]

Beautiful plane Padraic thanks for the pictures and yes Tony she'd look great as a gyro with her seemingly scaled down PCA-2 lines..... sighhh....

[WHY]

Ok, I got some questions for all you "daydreamers" (like myself). First , does anyone have any suggestions as to a "tall" set of ready made sicissor type main gear like maybe from a Piper Cherokee or a Beach Sundowner or even taller that would work on this set up mounted out on the ends of the center section so you would not have to make them. They will have to be tall due to the size of that prop. Secondly , would a two blade teeter style rotor work on something this large or would you have to go to something like a McCullouch J-2 three blade with the helio style head. Was just thinking how great it would be if one of these could be proto-typed sucessfully and then see if Serenity Aircraft would make a kit fuselage for the gyro and the radial already to put together ???????? Also would a three blade rotor with a taildragger set up be subject to ground reasonance ???

Tony

[Brent_Brown]

Why not use the gear as is. looks wide to me.

[WHY]

Hi Brent

Yes it is wide, probably as wide as the gear would be if it were out on the center section but the "pivot" point of the gear would be different and this should keep it from "rocking' as easily.

Tony

[Alan_Cheatham]

By the time you get all the gyro specific mods done it's going to look like the Cierva C30a so why not just build a replica of that machine, (but with the flashier paint job).

.

[WHY]

Hey Alan

Your right about the Cierva C30a, EXACTLY the model I was looking at, but think that a lot of work could be saved if the airframe could be reasonably modified. Plus it would ultimately be great if it were available as a kit from a supplier !!

Tony

[Vance]

Ok, I got some questions for all you "daydreamers" (like myself). First , does anyone have any suggestions as to a "tall" set of ready made sicissor type main gear like maybe from a Piper Cherokee or a Beach Sundowner or even taller that would work on this set up mounted out on the ends of the center section so you would not have to make them. They will have to be tall due to the size of that prop. Secondly , would a two blade teeter style rotor work on something this large or would you have to go to something like a McCullouch J-2 three blade with the helio style head. Was just thinking how great it would be if one of these could be proto-typed sucessfully and then see if Serenity Aircraft would make a kit fuselage for the gyro and the radial already to put together ???????? Also would a three blade rotor with a taildragger set up be subject to ground reasonance ???

Tony

Hello Tony,

Grove will custom make you any sort of landing gear you want.

Just give him the mounting and weight of the aircraft and he will do the rest.

If you keep it under 1,500 pounds gross a readily available rotor from Sport Copter would work fine.

That sort of fuselage is easy to fabricate with mostly straight tubes.

Thank you, Vance

[kolibri282]

What's her gross weight?

[WHY]

Hi Juergen

Gross weight according to specs with a 125 hp 4 cylinder was 1400 lbs.

Tony

[WHY]

HI Vance

Yes the fuselage is "originally " flat sided, the builder faired it out with wood stringers and special wood pieces on the sides of the fuselage to make it compatable with the round engine, would be easy to shorten and bring together. Don't know if it could be done in the original welding jig or not. Nice to know about Grove and the landing gear, would be nice if one could find a commercial landing gear from a salvage plane but most might be to heavy.

Tony

[GyroRon]

Why ruin such a beautiful plane by cutting the wings off. Spacewalker has always been a favorite plane of mine.

Not sure why so many of you want to mess around with a tractor gyro.... after having flown quite a few of them, they fly, feel and act like airplanes. Airplanes with all the shortcomings of a gyro. If you want a gyro for the fun flying a gyro can be, you need a pusher. IMHO

[Passin' Thru]

Why ruin such a beautiful plane by cutting the wings off. Spacewalker has always been a favorite plane of mine.

Not sure why so many of you want to mess around with a tractor gyro.... after having flown quite a few of them, they fly, feel and act like airplanes. Airplanes with all the shortcomings of a gyro. If you want a gyro for the fun flying a gyro can be, you need a pusher. IMHO

I agree with Ron.
The SpaceWalker is a fine sport plane. Why mess it up?
The greatest thing going for a gyro is fun-flying simplicity and unlimited visibility. This means open frame and pusher prop.
A gyro is what it is, why try to make it something it ain't?:noidea:

[Vance]

I agree with Ron.
The SpaceWalker is a fine sport plane. Why mess it up?
The greatest thing going for a gyro is fun-flying simplicity and unlimited visibility. This means open frame and pusher prop.
A gyro is what it is, why try to make it something it ain't?:noidea:

Hello Pete,

We are usually aligned but not this time.

I have not found value in limiting my thinking to a model that works.

I feel it is admirable when people think beyond such limitations.

An aircraft is based on fantasy and fantasy is a very individual thing.

When I began to sell Harley Davidson motorcycles in 1987 they didn’t do anything very well other than to fulfill a fantasy.

The model that people coveted the most had the fewest quantifiable motorcycle benefits.

I would love to build a tractor with a TSIO 550 because it could do things that the Predator can’t and Mariah Gale won't.

I am not bold enough to do that and instead settled on a relative copy of the Predator with the same engine and propeller.

I don’t think the cost is all that different.

I have a few hours in a Stearman. Watching all the lights disappear in the landing flair at night takes away some of the allure of a round engine. In my opinion even very sharp S turns down the taxiway do not give me adequate forward visibility. The wings not being in the way would help but the forward visibility was the biggest challenge for me. Yes, I did jack the seat all the way up.

On the other hand I love the sound of the round motor and the flame out the exhaust at night has a very seductive quality. I love to watch that big tachometer wander around and feel the aircraft pulled through the air by that huge, slow turning propeller.

I can see the allure in a tractor gyroplane with a round motor. I would be inclined to use one with more power than the Rotec. Something like a Pratt and Whitney R-985 or at least a Continental R-670 would seem more suitable. This would require a rotor outside of what is economically available.

Life is too short to chase every dream.

Jim Mayfield is building a two place open tractor with a round motor that should be very light. He started with a kit biplane with an aluminum airframe, left the wings off and redid the empennage. In my opinion it is a thing of beauty and wonder.

In my opinion most pusher gyroplanes lack visual appeal.

It wouldn’t hurt anything if gyroplanes were a little more attractive and graceful.

A conventional gear tractor autogiro might attract favorable attention from the fixed wing crowed. They all loved the Pitcairn at Sun and Fun and Air Venture.

Thank you, Vance

[WHY]

Actually if you start by building a modified fuselage, you are not "cutting the wings off" or "messing up" a beautiful airplane (and it is one of my favorite also) you are just utilizing existing design qualities. As for wanting a tractor Vs pusher well IMAO it's my choice. When it comes to gyro's you must either "buy" or "build" , if you buy, you are confined to what is already produced by some one who decided to build something what was not available to buy.

Tony

[GyroRon]

Vance, I have flown Ron Herrons radial powered little wing. It was a blast to fly, and I could certainly see wanting to own one. It has a look that is just right... Not only is it a gyro but it has the look of a classic tractor gyro AND a radial engine. Couldn't draw more attention to your aircraft if you set it on fire.

Flying though, it was just like flying a airplane. It did not feel like a typical gyroplane. Hard to say much more than that... For some pilots that just want to go from point A to point B, a gyro like that little wing would be superior to most pusher gyros. Probably why Andy Keech used a little wing for all his record setting flights. But for a pilot that wants to have all the visabilty and manuverabilty a gyro can have, you need to be in a pusher gyro.

[kolibri282]

When I began to sell Harley Davidson motorcycles in 1987 they didn’t do anything very well other than to fulfill a fantasy. The model that people coveted the most had the fewest quantifiable motorcycle benefits.
I'll keep that sentence as an example of how one nicely puts the fact that tractor gyro nuts are not alone in beeing a bit more nuts than other nuts...;-)

Cheers,

Juergen

[RockyMeLad]

I'll keep that sentence as an example of how one nicely puts the fact that tractor gyro nuts are not alone in beeing a bit more nuts than other nuts...;-)

Cheers,

Juergen

Uhhh... thank you, Juergen...

I think. :D

[Alan_Cheatham]

At least with us tractor fans if one of our nuts does fall off it won't go through the prop!

.

[ricardoramalho]

It looks like the pusher gyro fans decided to finally counterattack the tractors growing popularity:D
if the tractor cannot do some of the things a pusher can, that is one more reason I would prefer a tractor. :)Tractor pilots seem to be more conservative pilots, so we don´t see so many stunts and impressive demonstration flight patterns in tractors videos on You Tube. I personally think that navigating straight is a great thing:D

[WHY]

Hi Ricardo

While I am a tractor enthusiast, I have no complaints against the pusher , just as long as any "new" design is a improvement in safety or a correction to a older construction problem.

Tony