Convention

[gyroplanes]

I started this new thread to focus only on the PRA convention. Please try to keep it on topic.

I will cut and paste my previous convention post and have some new information to add.

Rick Marshall is this years convention Chairman. I will probably do the forums and seminars again, if asked.

I appreciate any and all constructive criticism or suggestions on how we can make the PRA conventions better, wherever they are being held.

I will take the information from here and add to it some of the logistics that need to be dealt with and publish them in a file / booklet that anyone wishing to host a convention can access. :)

[gyroplanes]

We need an annual convention as a focal point for everything in our sport. A living, breathing magazine. A total Sport Rotorcraft experience.

Sadly our convention has lost some of it's focus. I believe it has lost some of it's focus because the planning for the convention usually falls on the shoulders of one person, and when that one person is asked to do the convention over and over again, they get a little tired and the show suffers.

A convention should be a gathering where:
Every manufacturer of anything sport rotorcraft is begging and paying decent money to exhibit their wares.
Every person who has an interest in Sport Rotorcraft would move heaven and earth (and vacation schedules) to attend, because it's all here. "one stop shopping".
Every topic concerning building and flying Sport Rotorcraft should be covered in a forum or seminar.
Every family member would want to attend as well, because they were thought of in the planning process and there is something fun for them to do while the rotornut is doing their thing.
Every person who ever wanted to see a specific rotorcraft fly, or take their first ride or lesson, should have that opportunity at the convention.
Every enthusiast who is ready to take the plunge should be able to go home with a kit or bundle of raw materials and a set of plans.
Everyone should enjoy the opportunity to walk the flight line and learn from the good ideas and innovations of others.
Everyone considering buying a used aircraft can pick from the largest assortment ever in one location and probably find someone experienced to look it over for them as well.
Everyone who is eligible and meets the requirements should be able to go home with a rating from one of the designated examiners present.
Everyone who has an aircaft that is ready for certification should be able to take home an aircraft with an airworthiness certificate, even if minor alterations are required.
Everyone should have the opportunity to meet the best and brightest in our sport, to visit with the legends of our sport.
Everyone should enjoy the rare opportunity to hang out with kindred spirits.
Everyone should have the opportunity to talk with the officers and directors of our association.
Everyone should have the opportunity to speak their mind and ask their questions at the general membership meeting

Dean Dolph added: I would suggest that getting the agenda and Convention info on the web site and in the magazine at least two months before the Convention would make for a better Convention.


How do we do on this list?
The first two are the worst two, in my opinion.
The very fact that we have people asking "Do we even need a convention" tells me that we are dropping the ball.

Actually, we have covered every item on my list (after the first two) over the years. We need to accomplish this goal at every convention if we hope to ever get the first two listed items to become a reality.

It takes teamwork to accomplish a convention of this magnitude. It doesn't take a small dedicated group at the same airport every year. That is actually counterproductive.

I have participated in a convention like this. It travels around the nation every year, yet you always feel at home. It takes many dedicated members, each with their own little task, no matter where the show is held, to make the thing a rousing success. It was not a PRA convention, but quite applicable.
I'm not above stealing their ideas.

[GyroRon]

How about giving the PRA members a discount on the fees involved.

[gyroplanes]

Here's how it works.

I looked back at my convention '96 notes, the amounts should be fairly accurate.

In 1996 I was given $3000.00 as seed money for the inaugural convention at Mentone.

I spent a bunch of money on "value added" items, some on infrastructure on the airport and some for entertainment.

We had 658 paid admissions for the full week, not counting "gate" (civilians and day visitors)

307 attended the banquet.

Camping; basic & full hookups brought in $7,384

The vendor area brought in $1050.00

1996 Mentone, IN. Total income $57,290.90

Total expense $37,047.18

Convention profit $20, 243.72

(we also added over $1000.00 in equipment, tables, chairs, 2-way radios, etc. to the PRA inventory)

In 1996 was given a balance sheet from Ed & Bernadine Alderfer's 1989 convention in Middletown, Ohio for help in determining what might be needed at Mentone (this was my first time as convention chairman and our first convention at Mentone) this was all the paperwork support available at the time.

The Alderfer's put on a very successful convention (or two) and by many accounts, some of the best in PRA history.

I'm including my and the Alderfer's financial report totals as a high water mark in convention profits. If I remember correctly, Dave Prater and Bill Parsons had a couple of financially lucrative conventions in Tullahoma, Tennessee as well.

1989 Middletown, Ohio Total income $17,376.38

Total expense $ 8,740.69

Startup cash $ 484.99

Convention profit $ 8,150.70

I am all in favor of PRA sponsored and assisted regional fly-ins, the more the merrier. For the reasons above, and in an above post, we need to have a yearly convention

[GyroRon]

No Tom, I am asking, if I am a PRA member, how about giving me a camping spot for less than what a non member is charged?

[barnstorm2]

Ron, just how many non-PRA members are going to be camping??

(Everyone gets a discount :( )

Or the 2 non-PRA members get charged more and get ticked?

[barnstorm2]

Tom,

I would like to see a better 'schedule of events', a welcome comittee, a who's who introduction or meet the family time.

Also, a public 'meet the flightline' where everyone gathers around and the people that dragged their machines up get to roll them by and intoduce themselves and the gyros.

[Kandace]

The only thing I was hoping to see at the convention and did not.....was more vendors.......places to shop for new and used gyro parts.

On the money side. I was fully prepared to pay the fee to get in and the man at the gate charged me $5 on Friday and when I arrived Saturday morning no one was even at the entrance.

If your doing something to hopefully make money or even to just break even, this does not seem to be a good way to go.

Now the extra cash in my pocket could have been spent buying more items...if there were any items to buy.

Just thought I'd mention it.

Kandace

[woodsher]

Kandace:
Good point on the gate not being attended On Sat. morning.

The one big problem is that we are short on Help during the convention.
This was my first time at the convention and I really wanted to enjoy it . Since I do live only an hour and a half from mentone I volunteered my time to help also.
The problem was that there were so few volunteers for the whole week that I missed every seminar that we had and I got very few chances to talk with other gyro pilots and the rest of the volunteers were just as busy as myself.
Don't get me wrong I did enjoy myself very much but a little disipointed that I didn't get a lot of time to talk with others. My kids also volunteered alot of there time which they enjoyed doing alot to. And the others that volunteered didn't get a rest either during the week to really enjoy it as much as I think they could have.
My point is that We need more volunteers to help out! If only for a couple of hours during the convention.
That way maybe someone could have been at the gate earlyier in the morning. I think alot of people just got burnt out by Sat.
I will tell you this that I do plan on volunteering myself again for next years convention and hopefully we can get more people to help out.

[gyroplanes]

Good point on the gate not being attended On Sat. morning.

The one big problem is that we are short on Help during the convention.


Quite an understatement, but help isn't always the answer. At Greencastle, IN. we had some free help. Prisoners loaned to us from a local jail. If, as someone said in an earlier post, they were sneered at at the gate, they should be happy they weren't shivved.

One of the major problems isn't volunteers, it's having them when and where you need them. We had the Boy Scouts manning the gate one year (for a percentage) I expect you'd have a hard time getting any information from them regarding gyroplanes, or where to find someone.

The solution to these problems is finding someone who wants to take charge of a particular facet of the convention.
An example: A friend and I joined an international guild, shortly thereafter we attended our first convention in Weedsport, NY. The convention went off like clockwork. We had such a good time that we vowed to volunteer for the next one.

Safety is a major concern for this organization. They have a safety chairman who oversees safety for the entire convention.
They are so well organized that they have a mobile ER that they tow to each convention, several Fire / EMT golfcarts and doctors on duty 24 / 7... all this for an organization only slightly larger than the PRA.

It is truly awesome! They bought all of the equipment through fund raising. The doctors are club members and volunteer their time "on call".

My friend joined the safety team years ago. Wherever the convention is held, he just shows up, picks up his T-shirts and night vests and gets his duty assignment (usually patrolling in a golf cart somewhere) they work in published, short shifts and at the end of the day they have a sponsored "after glow" party.

It just takes organization and teamwork.

[Dean_Dolph]

Tom, the fact that someone (you!) is highlighting next year's convention this early should improve it. I thought last years was the best in many years and it is a shame that so many people skipped it. I believe Rick's securing the mobile building and your leading the forums charge was the difference.

I would suggest that a 'tasks' list and any associated schedule(s) be created and posted here to let people see where they might be able and willing to help out. Maybe some chapter(s) might volunteer to handle certain chores. I know Chapter 62 handled the trash detail one year. There were those, of course, that said we were highly qualified!

Getting early commitments for the forums and from vendors would help R. Gilley get the info in the magazine to entice attendance. That kind of info didn't show up in the mag until after Mentone this year!

[donshoebridge]

No Tom, I am asking, if I am a PRA member, how about giving me a camping spot for less than what a non member is charged?

I have to agree with Ron on this one. There is a big incentive for people to join when non-members have to pay 5-10 dollars more, just like AirVenture. But the flip side is that since about 99% of the attendees are already members, it wouldn't help the PRA cash flow too much. With the current admission fee being what it is, I don't mind leaving it as is for members. But I'd like to see non-members take a little more of a hit, and with that extra hit, give them a $5 coupon for a gyro ride, gift shop stuff or something else.

[barnstorm2]

I would be happy to help make a printable 'Guide to Mentone' if you guys think it would be worthwhile?

[Dean_Dolph]

Hey, Tim, if you did as good a job as you did with the gyroplane brochures I picked up from you in Mentone this year then there would definitely be some value. I am curous, however, as to what would be included in the 'Guide'.

[barnstorm2]

Dean,

I don't know. What the posters here and Tom M suggest I guess. My first reaction is a Map, who's who, Services, where to day, what to eat, Schedule. If there is enough room perhaps a spotters guide to gyroplanes??

[GyroRon]

If it is only 99 percent attended by people that are already members then there is a glaring problem. No new faces no new blood in the sport. Sooner or later the decision makers that decide when and where to hold these fly ins will figure out that if you only cater to those who are already in the fold, at some point there won't be much in that fold.

[barnstorm2]

Ron,

I go to all kinds of conventions.

Motorcycle, Computer, Astronomy, Instructor and rock hounds conventions…

Typically, they are like Mentone, for the already converted, a rally of forces, a gathering of peers in forms from old salts to neubees. New comers are always welcome but the primary purpose is never primarily recruitment.

I will support brining as much of the public to conventions as we can scheme out. However, I don’t think it is a convention requirement. I think not only pilots, but motorcyclists, R/C pilots and ‘extreem sports’ fans are good candidates to bring to the conventions if we can ‘lure’ them. I have read some really good ideas in ROTORCRAFT and this forum. The most efficient the idea the better I like it.

I just don’t think it has to be a recruiting tool.

[automan1223]

new blood is a rare find ron. Just now word has leaked out about some of my flying, well maybe some have seen me overhead (I dont know how... but its a small world).

2 years ago I set up a booth during a local july 4 th weekend wing ding here in the county. My 2 place generated maybe a dozen looky see's out of mobs of people and 2 kids who thought it was the coolest thing they ever saw. 2 years before that my single place sat in roughly the same spot and generated only slightly more interest. Now I put up a video display, dan leslie sent me a box full of videos and promo materials. Guess what happened. ?

Not a single person has come by the shop to indicate that they want to build one of these things or get involved. If the do come in to waste my time it is like they want to see a freak show at the circus.

10,000 people roughly decend on lou mac park here in oriental and I got zero interest. Now its true that the machine was not flying and I (sheepishly) admit to running the machine and taxiing it in the streets filled with spectators (who thought I was going to do a verticle takeoff) but I have to tell you how dissappointed I was not to have any brothers or sisters express any serious interest in gyros. I gave away a bunch of my tapes and some of dans intro stuff too. I did not get a single call.

Now my attitude has turned 180degrees from that day. I do not expect the general public to have any interest in my passion. I do not answer any jackass or wise guy's smart 2 bit comments when I am filling up at the pump or in a public setting. I just look at them. I do not want the general public to come in and ruin my sport with the same way they drive on the roads, same attitudes.

Building and finally flying for me was a life long dream. I wore many books out at the library way before the mad max movie introduced gyros to the next generation. I can count on one hand over 5-6 years how many people I will invite to fly, or ones that have a slighlty serious interest. I will not openly promote my sport or use it in a commercial capacity to advance flying to the public (locally) . I truly believe our breed is an endangered speices and given a few more years the only kids you will see outside are the ones without electric in their homes. Meaning no video or tv to melt their brains. so if things are down I know I have tried to do my part and in time I will allow a few to watch me fly but I doubt my efforts will ever produce gyro offspring......

Jonathan

[GyroRon]

Jonathan.... ever stop to think it is not the gyro that scares the locals away but maybe you? ;)

[gyroplanes]

Dean,

I don't know. What the posters here and Tom M suggest I guess. My first reaction is a Map, who's who, Services, where to day, what to eat, Schedule. If there is enough room perhaps a spotters guide to gyroplanes??

In 1996 we spent $908.00 to have a color, newsprint program book printed, every attendee got one and there were many extras.

I had a helper sell adverts in the program and we brought in $975.00 in advertising.

We had to print the programs several weeks in advance so the seminar no-shows (and there always are a few) tended to throw the schedule a bit out of whack.

The best program book idea I've seen yet is at the other convention that I mentioned in a previous post.
Every paid attendee gets a three ring binder, with a color cover photo. As I recall, inside it started out with a welcome letter from the local mayor, then the organization president and one from the convention chairman.

Next came a map of the area. The map had reference numbers to the advertisers locations. Ads were sold to local motels, restaurants, grocery stores, you get the drift. Each advertiser provided their own ad, pre-punched and ready to insert in the 3 ring binder. Many had redeemable coupons and welcome messages.

There was a tentative seminar schedule (which is now updateable. updates were left poolside at the welcome and registration table every morning) A short Bio of each presenter and a summary of the topic covered was included. Many were repeated at different times on different days.

Presenters with handouts were encouraged to have the handouts punched for 3 ring binders.

As part of the vendor fee each vendor was allowed several pages (which they provided, punched, of course) of advertising for insertion in the binders. A map of vendor locations was also included.

Safety rules and contest rules were included, as were ballots for judging and entry forms too.

By the end of the convention you had a technical manual, catalog and souvenir book, all-in-one.

They register convention goers only at the host hotel, only from something like 8am to 8pm. no one gets into the convention without their nametag on, no exceptions. The convention site has been as many as 10 miles from the registration site. Hired security guards man the gates. The public is only invited to attend on Friday night and only in a fenced off area.

They don't suffer fools lightly in this organization. You have to be a member for at least 3 months prior to their convention to attend. WHY? because they found out that some folks allowed their memberships to lapse and waited to renew just before the convention. This lead to last minute additional paperwork.

Regardless of how long you plan to stay or when you get there, you pay one hefty fee, something like $100.00 + $25. for each additional adult...if you register early, by early I mean at least a month before the convention. From a month before to 2 weeks before it goes up to $125.00 +$25.00. 2 Weeks before the show, registration ends.

This all might seem Nazi like, but the proof is in the pudding. They have around 4000 members, nearly half attend the conventions every year.

You very seldom hear complaints about the convention. The members love it. They know 3 years in advance where the conventions will be held.

Along with the 3 ring binder every attendee gets a commerative T-shirt and pre-printed name tag all in a little plastic tote bag.

Every year there are presentations from Chambers of commerce, from all over the USA pitching their locations to us. The officers are frequently flown out and shown around by the chambers. It's hard to ignore 2000 T-shirts walking around your town, spending money

[gyroplanes]

If you want to get an idea of how the "other" organization I belong to functions You can get a lot of ideas from their web site alone.

They suffered a real bad accident at their convention this year. The bottom link covers it. I like the way they handled it.
Check out the convention link, especially the photo section and schedule of sites for the future.

http://www.pgi.org/index.htm

There's no reason we can't function this well.

[barnstorm2]

Jonathan,

I am blinded by your optimism and tolerance of the curious and naive! ;)

I believe that gyros will call to some people and not to others. It is just a matter of how and when. We have to provide the most efficient exposure and then welcome the curious.

IMHO.

[gyroplanes]

Ron,

Typically, they are like Mentone, for the already converted, a rally of forces, a gathering of peers in forms from old salts to neubees. New comers are always welcome but the primary purpose is never primarily recruitment.

I just don’t think it has to be a recruiting tool.


Factoid; In 1996 we took in $2747.00 in memberships and renewals at the convention. I have no detailed breakdown between the two.

It would be nice if somewhere at the convention site there was at least a sign the reads "Join PRA here" and a smiling face nearby with a cash drawer.

For more on this see my new thread "Growing the PRA"

[automan1223]

You were not there at either event. I was your typical overly enthused gyro wanna be, but not yet pilot. Yeah, I am a big scary guy. I have had neighbors come over after 5 years and tell me what a nice guy I am, then admit they thought I was a big evil guy because of my size. They actually chuckle, when I tell them its the little dogs you have to watch out for !

I do live in a rural and economically challenged area, so I think that might have a lot to do with it. However when bubba wants a new 1000.00 hunting rifle and a NEW 9000.00 atv with all the bells, and puts it on the back of his NEW pickup 4wd (about $25,0000) then joins a hunting club with 500.00 dues....

I understand some people just have priorities.
Flying is not one of them.

And if you could explain when I left for lunch, why my wife and a few of her girlfriends manned my booth, and got the same kind of response... none.

Maybe I just dont come across to some people, but it is not because I have not tried. and if I ever blew anyone out the door its because I already got the heads up on the wise guy or I know they were full of ****.

Ron, whats your excuse, ? how many new people have you introduced and got flying gyros in your heavily populated, and economically lush area ?

I have got 10,000 people in my whole county and faa data base lists 15 registered pilots in Pamlico County. 2 or 3 are dead.....

How many in yours ?

Jonathan

[Jerseywing]

A couple of observations.
THIS IS NOT INTENDED TO START A **** STORM
So please leave the insults out of the replies it's only intended as constructive criticism
1) This is a very different style of sport no question about it
2) The majority of the craft are open cockpit (if there is one at all)
3) To truly enjoy the open cockpit you need good weather
4) Most people will not invest a large sum of money on something that can only be used a couple of months a year especially when it requires you to
a.invest alot in training to do and
b.maintain proficiency to really enjoy
This isn't a boat you do it right or die...
5) Mentone is not the place where you have good year round weather (but I'm not going to get into that discusion)
6) The idea of the convention as a Stop-over for Osh-Kosh is bad- Think of it, we may have enough vacation, 3 weeks lets say -but how many of us can take it all at one shot-I know I can't, I'd get too far behind by being out that long.
7)The PRA website needs some JUICE It's dull and hasn't changed in a long while ( yeah I know it's getting done now ...)
8) Read the posts here, - really- look at them- there is alot of good stuff to be gleaned but someone just lurking will see alot of bashing as well. It tends to take alot from the sport if we can't get along here. Differences of opinion are one thing, but it goes too far sometimes. (I'm not talking the US political or election stuff thats just good natured ball bustin')
9) If we want a good convention then these issues need addressing so people that are in the market or even have a little interest will be motivated to attend

My Conclusions:
If you're looking to get more outsiders into a limited sport then it needs to be done in a fair weather climate where participation will be more favorable, and where most of the members are close.- Just survey the membership where do most live- that'll tell you where the sport will thrive the best
Kick the Vendors butts We need to be able to prove we can draw a crowd and then demand that the vendors come at our price if they want a share of the market. We are their customers - they aren't ours when it comes to this. That is how we get some $ in the coffers
Get the website going so that it'll change alot, that way it keeps interest - the internet is the best and cheapest source of advertising we have
If people are going to take a weeks vacation to come to a " convention" then a $125.00 fee won't kill them for the total package. I've attended Americade -for touring motorcycles I believe it was $125.00. But once in you had the widest variety of vendors and services I've ever seen. Everything from custom painting to accessories where you drop off the bike, come back and they're installed.
If you wanted to get in without the whole package I think it was $20 or $25 a day.

Just a couple of thoughts from a bored 'ol fart ;)

[donshoebridge]

6) The idea of the convention as a Stop-over for Osh-Kosh is bad- Think of it, we may have enough vacation, 3 weeks lets say -but how many of us can take it all at one shot-I know I can't, I'd get too far behind by being out that long.

How does inviting Oshkosh traffic impact your vacation schedule? You take what ever time off you think you can or want, you go do what ever you want, and you leave for home when ever you want. If you want to show up at Mentone a week before the gates open to the general public, and then leave mid-day Saturday, that's fine. All of the vendors do the exact same thing now. However, the unfortunate fact about that is, IF people actually fly in en-route to Oshkosh, and there's no gyros there to see, then why waste anymore time trying to draw people in? Because they sure wont show up the following year. If you can't get aviation buffs to attend an aviation event, especially after attending the previous years event and seeing nothing there, then who left to cater to next year?

[Jerseywing]

It depends on wether we want to be a side show for osh kosh or have our own seperate convention.
How will having the GA community come for a stop over be advantageous for us when their intent is to go to Osh-Kosh for the vendors etc. Wouldn't we rather have them comming to us to see the vendors?
Lets say if Osh-Kosh is in June then our convention should be in August No?
I'm just trying to figure a way to get the Rotorcraft community to see Mentone the same way the FW people see Osh-Kosh
Having it as a Stop over would be OK if we bill it as a fly-in and Not our convention. Then we promote the heck out of our convention in August
Do you see where I'm going with this? Maybe I'm wrong I don't know

[Mike Hook]

Just a thought here on the subject of getting new faces in the pra and to the convention. If the PRA was able to get some air time on shows like , lets say Monster Garage and Jessie had to lean to fly a gyro that was build in the shop , or maybe a gyro theme on Junk Yard wars, or even get the bunch at Orange County Choppers to cut up a Harley engine for a gyro on the show.

I know this sounds like a bunch of bull but you need to find new faces and what better way than to hit the guys with the urge to build stuff.

I have no idea how to go about such a project with them and I in no means intend to make the gyro community look bad.We just need to grow as a group and we need new faces.

Lets see who can get one of these guys up in a gyro for a first flight and set the bug to them.

Mike

[PW_Plack]

I've only ever been to two PRA sanctioned events, Bensen Days 2003, and El Mirage this year, so my experience with PRA events is limited. I live near Portland, OR, so the closest PRA event is El Mirage, 990 miles to the south of me.

At both events, the flying was conducted so far from any public exposure that there was essentially no opportunity to introduce anyone new to the sport. Who is going to pay to come to a convention if they're not already interested? A convention should be for the benefit of existing enthusiasts. If you want to spread interest, we need to fly gyros somewhere other than our own events, and let them be seen.

At Bensen Days, everybody ties down their gyros for the night, and drives to dinner in cars. Isn't there someplace nearby where we could fly to dinner? At El Mirage, the flight line and camping area are six miles in from the highway. The management of our motel had no clue the event was going on until we parked Todd's Dominator in the parking lot the night before we left.

I'm not surprised that static displays of gyroplanes are boring to newbies. Did you get excited about gyros before you ever saw one fly? We need to let the public see them fly!

[donshoebridge]

It depends on wether we want to be a side show for osh kosh or have our own seperate convention.
How will having the GA community come for a stop over be advantageous for us when their intent is to go to Osh-Kosh for the vendors etc. Wouldn't we rather have them comming to us to see the vendors?
Lets say if Osh-Kosh is in June then our convention should be in August No?
I'm just trying to figure a way to get the Rotorcraft community to see Mentone the same way the FW people see Osh-Kosh
Having it as a Stop over would be OK if we bill it as a fly-in and Not our convention. Then we promote the heck out of our convention in August
Do you see where I'm going with this? Maybe I'm wrong I don't know

There are several conditions that have made thing the way they are;

1) Most of the vendors that attend Mentone also attend Oshkosh, with only a couple of exceptions - RAF doesn't attend Mentone, and I don't think RFD attends Oshkosh. With Mentone ending just as Oshkosh begins, many of the Mentone vendors make the day drive to Oskkosh. Seperating the 2 event dates further would cause the vendors to make a choice between Oshkosh and Mentone.

2) August weather in north central Indiana can be brutal! Hot, humid, nasty! The hotter the weather, the worse the flying conditions. And if Mentone was held too late in the summer, again, vendors would be forced to make the choice between Oshkosh and Mentone. My guess would be that they would go to Oshkosh becaue they could sell more and gain greater exposure.

3) MANY of the helo pilots that make the trip to Oshkosh don't even know that the PRA exsists! So obviously promotion should be the number one issue for the PRA to address. But like has been said earlier, the genral public doesn't have a clue about gyros and they think gyros are some kind of a toy and they wont take them seriously. The only people that MAY actually take gyros seriously are those that are already into aviation, more specifically, people that have already built an aircraft or are seriously thinking about building.

4) Flying our gyros at various aviation events may be the single most important action that we can do to draw in new faces. But will the promoters of those events let us fly? Not unless we have insurance! And only if they think it'll be worth their time and money.

5) TV shows have been done. And again, gyros were not taken seriously by those that put on the show, so they played the program at 2 and 3 in the morning, on a channel that could only be picked up on DishNetwork. It's not hard to see that the ratings were going to be crap, and the result was that they canceled the show (reference Rotor/Wings Sport TV). I'd like to see an hour long show about the history of gyroplanes, to include flight characteristics and safety records. And then I'd try to get it on DiscoveryWings. Seeing how they are always replaying past shows, there's a good chance that it would be played many times over.

[GyroRon]

Jonathan is not telling you guys that he lives directly under Restricted Airspace! Matter of fact nearly the entire coast of North Carolina is covered with Restricted airspace. On our Chapter 13 forum Jonathan has told us many stories about figher Jets flying just above the tree tops at supersonic speeds and all the other military aircraft buzzing around in the skys above his area. I think Jonathan is not taking this into account. It is hard to have a active aviation network in a area where you may not get to fly. Kind of like wanting to see a lot of off shore boating activity living in Arkansas!

Here in my area we have alot of people no doubt, and alot of pilots as well. And no doubt I could be doing more to get these people involved with gyroplanes. But I have personally saw to it that at least three people are members of the PRA, and are flying gyros directly because of me. I have also been the fire up under the ass for a few other people in the area that are still building or learning. Barry Kroplin told me just yesterday as we were flying back from Our chapter 13 meeting, that had it not been for me and my visits to his house to help motivate him, his gyro would still be under construction and he would not be almost ready for solo in it. I have also got a few of the Goose Creek pilots interested in Gyros. We will have to see if anything ever becomes of it. BUT....

I do not expect everyone to want to fly gyros. They have a terrible safety record, they are not cheap, they take more room to takeoff, they can not use a Parachute system - which is the one thing that get's the approval from the wives of many of the pilots around here, no chute.... no flying that flying lawnchair! - and generally it is harder to get instruction, more expensive etc.... In other words I am not the type that thinks gyros are for everyone. I do like them myself, I believe they can be safe, and I like the advantages that are special to just gyros - like full control at zero airspeed etc.. - I will probably alway fly a gyro, and as long as I fly a gyro I will share my passion with those that want to know more about gyros. But I am not going to go outta my way to twist someones arm about gyros if they aren't interested on their own.

[barnstorm2]

Great Post Ron!

Congratulations on 'birthing' some gyro pilots! You have played a critical role in my success in becoming a gyro pilot.

Quite correct, gyros are NOT for everyone. But they are great for some of us and I know I would be truly happy with no other flying machine.

We have an uphill battle fighting discriminations and false impressions, but the future gyropilots ARE out there. They just don't know it yet and it is up to us to help them them find themselves! :)

[Vance]

I think we may have an uphill battle fighting true impresions! Thank you, Vance

[barnstorm2]

Vance,

I am not sure which impressions you mean.. but yes.

As others have stated reciently an open-cockpit is not for everyone!

Chuck or someone has probably crunched the numbers but from a few hundred feet the enclosure is unlikely to actually protect you from the fall in any significant way. We also have a problem with a lack of instructors.

Off the top of my head most other 'impresions' are mostly false or corrected by the advent of HStabs and CLT.

[Dean_Dolph]

……………. A convention should be a gathering where:
Every person who ever wanted to see a specific rotorcraft fly, or take their first ride or lesson, should have that opportunity at the convention.Tom, another thread made me think about my first gyro ride which was with Ken Brock in his glider. Any chance of scheduling glider or boomtrainer rides at the Convention for new people? Any chance of someone soliciting vendor attendance? Someone must be doing some of this since there are vendor donations for door prizes at the banquet. How 'bout seeing if the factory machines will donate a ride given away at a daily drawing? Everyone should have the opportunity to meet the best and brightest in our sport, to visit with the legends of our sport.What about having a 'meet the best and brightest' forum? A list of those that people would like to dialog with could be compiled on this Forum. Or, how 'bout having 'Welcomers' at registration that would introduce people to the 'legends'? The registration form could have a place to name those that people would like to meet or what their purpose of attending the Convention is. They could indicate if the would like the assistance of a 'Welcomer'. Everyone should have the opportunity to talk with the officers and directors of our association.Agree! We see the prez and secretary at the members meeting but why not have the entire PRA BOD present up front where they are introduced and people get an opportunity to see, if not visit with them? Everyone should have the opportunity to speak their mind and ask their questions at the general membership meetingI believe the main weak point in our membership meetings is the lack of a previously published agenda and the first agenda item should be the PRA secretary asking if there are issues that need to be added for discussion. There have been interesting and productive membership meetings in the past and last years was a little better than most but usually they stink! The members meeting should be the focus of the Convention but it doesn't seem to get much attention. :(

I would suggest that getting the agenda and Convention info on the web site and in the magazine at least two months before the Convention would make for a better Convention.

[gyroplanes]

Tom, another thread made me think about my first gyro ride which was with Ken Brock in his glider. Any chance of scheduling glider or boomtrainer rides at the Convention for new people?
>> It would seem to me that our runway is a little short for a gyroglider. It would close the runway for others during it's use.

Any chance of someone soliciting vendor attendance?
>>All it takes is a volunteer ;)

Someone must be doing some of this since there are vendor donations for door prizes at the banquet. How 'bout seeing if the factory machines will donate a ride given away at a daily drawing?
>> I made up a form in 1996 that asks the vendors if they will attend, would donate to the auction and if they would like to give a forum. There should be telemarketer style follow ups too.

What about having a 'meet the best and brightest' forum? A list of those that people would like to dialog with could be compiled on this Forum. Or, how 'bout having 'Welcomers' at registration that would introduce people to the 'legends'? The registration form could have a place to name those that people would like to meet or what their purpose of attending the Convention is.
>> I wish we could get more of the "B&B", like yourself, to give a seminar.

They could indicate if the would like the assistance of a 'Welcomer'.Agree!
>> Very good idea. A virtual help button for newbies.

We see the prez and secretary at the members meeting but why not have the entire PRA BOD present up front where they are introduced and people get an opportunity to see, if not visit with them?
>> The Pres has always had the BoD members that are present, stand up. No one ever wants to talk to us. I suggested a "uniform" or ID that made the BoD and officers stand out at the convention.

I believe the main weak point in our membership meetings is the lack of a previously published agenda and the first agenda item should be the PRA secretary asking if there are issues that need to be added for discussion. There have been interesting and productive membership meetings in the past and last years was a little better than most but usually they stink! The members meeting should be the focus of the Convention but it doesn't seem to get much attention. :(
>> I think they want to keep the meeting short, seldom does anyone ask a question of any gravity. Maybe this year it will be different.

I would suggest that getting the agenda and Convention info on the web site and in the magazine at least two months before the Convention would make for a better Convention.
>> I think it's a great idea. We should add it to the list.

I replied inside your quotes, the forum thinga ma jig says my reply is too short. This should help out.

[Dean_Dolph]

Tom, another thread made me think about my first gyro ride which was with Ken Brock in his glider. Any chance of scheduling glider or boomtrainer rides at the Convention for new people? It would seem to me that our runway is a little short for a gyroglider. It would close the runway for others during it's use. Runway too short? Possibly. G. Bundy should know. A boomtrainer with a prerotator would solve that problem. Close the runway during the gyroglider rides? Yup, that would be a consequent but it didn't stop the glider rides at Frederick OK. in 1980. But then again I don't know if an alternate taxi way or runway was used for the glider rides. I do remember that there was a never ending line of people wanting to ride and a large crowd of observers.
I believe the main weak point in our membership meetings is the lack of a previously published agenda and the first agenda item should be the PRA secretary asking if there are issues that need to be added for discussion. There have been interesting and productive membership meetings in the past and last years was a little better than most but usually they stink! The members meeting should be the focus of the Convention but it doesn't seem to get much attention.
I think they want to keep the meeting short, seldom does anyone ask a question of any gravity. Maybe this year it will be different. Keep the meeting short?! Hmm, I hope that isn't the intent. Like I said, this is a convention of members and the members meeting should be the focal point and should last until all the questions and issues have been covered. If it takes more than one meeting then so be it!

My feeling is that questions don't get asked because no one has any idea what is up for discussion until they get there. Since there never has been a published agenda no one realizes that a request for other business will be the last item on the agenda. Consequently, people don't have an opportunity to prepare presentations or questions.