Very old gyro crash

[dloftus]

I saw this on You Tube and don't know if it has been posted before. I think this is what can happen whey you get a little over confident. You can watch the whole video, but the if you just want to see the crash, start at about 8:30. Very strange control configuration on this gyro also.

YouTube - Autogyre crash 1991 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Il4Hfq7NoI&feature=grec_index)

[GyroDoug]

It looks like he just got low and slow and below the power curve and settled into rough ground without being straight and he tipped it over. I think that kind of accident has happened a lot in the gyro world.

[Aussie_Paul]

Can't beat a camera to make people do silly things. Does not have to be aviation.

Aussie Paul. :)

[gyro19xl]

Nice flying up until the point he put on the air brakes ! I dont' believe I have ever seen that type of control system on a gyro before. Also noticed that the mast angle was welded right behind the seat, must have been a mild steel air frame.

[GrantR]

That looks like a delta wing trike airframe that was modified into a gyro.

[Doug Riley]

Another low-altitude downwind turn splat.

What's more interesting is that this craft is very HTL, with no H-stab. Such gyros tend to porpoise gently but continually. Watch this one closely and you can see it. If the porpoising were to get out of hand, that alone could result in a PPO.

The pilot is fortunate that he mushed in low and slow rather than tumbling end over end from a fatal altitude.

[gyroman]

i was gonna ask if anyone noticed the porposing and you beat me to it...

[EI-GYRO]

I think it's a gyke. Trike with rotor and rudder. The hoop control is a variation
on the overhead stick.
Low, slow, ploughed field. Bad combo.

[GrantR]

How does a trike achieve CLT when a trike wing weights about the same as a heavy rotor?

I read that Trikes need to be CLT to fly correctly.

I thought the proposing was due to the pilot not having the skills needed to properly fly that type of gyro. :boink:

[hillberg]

Pilot got off cheap. Dumb. Dumb. Dumb.:rant:

[Kevin_Richey]

Wasn't this posted sometime ago on the forum?

Wasn't this a French flier?

The title of this thread shows 1991 while the camera date shows 1995...

[Rehan K.Janjua]

Training - HTL - no pitch dampner - no yaw string - PIO - over control - deathgrip - white nuckles - light controls - low time - etc.

THE END.

[Timchick]

It does look like a modified trike frame. I wouldn't want that flight control setup.

[EI-GYRO]

The flight control setup is attractive to flex-wing pilots as it is similar to the A-frame.
Effectively, it is an overhead stick.
If they added a HS along with the rudder, its probably not a bad arrangement.

[EI-GYRO]

Sounded like French chatter, at the end.

[scandtours]

I believe this accident has nothing to do with HTL PPO or anything like that.
Too low and slow and behind the power curve, down wind turn ( watch his take off direction) and maybe heavy underpower VW gyro.
If forced landing was on a hard surface, nose wheel should not drop into the soft soil. Same tip over when you apply the front brakes on a bicycle.
This is exactly what had happened to Ken Wallis accidentn too.
On soft or rough surfaces, in my oppinion, is to consume ALL forward speed and land vertically.

[Chuck Roberg]

Giorgos, I think you hit the nail on the head.

[Stoney]

After watching the crash two times I am sure I heard the engine cut out completely right before the tumble. Also he was throttling down during each of the slow turns that he did complete before crashing. It seemed that his airspeed dropped with each successive turn. I wonder what the rotor RPM was doing, suspect it was dropping as well.

[ArnaudHP]

I believe this accident has nothing to do with HTL PPO or anything like that.
Too low and slow and below the power curve, down wind turn ( watch his take off direction) and maybe heavy underpower VW gyro.


I agree with you, Giorgos : behind the power curve.
Yes, they speak French.
It sounds he chopped the power when hitting the ground (at least he didn't tumble with full power on:ohwell:)

[Greg Mitchell]

Excellent Training Video!

[Gyro28866]

We watched a simillar situation unfold a the 1994 Nationals in ? Greencastle, Ind?.. During the Bomb Drop contest. The gyro mushed in all the way to the runway, the polot made a good save; then pilots second mistake, was not to accept the save, apply full throttle and take off and not regain sufficent airspeed and make a left turn and settled once again into the corn field this the second time.
PRIDE comes before the FALL!
That was my first flyin. and first gyro ride - with Steve Graves/Marchetti
I learned a bunch that weekend.

[Resasi]

I agree with Bruce. He was getting slower and slower with rrpm dropping all the time without even trying to energize the rotor in the turns. He was sliding round that last turn, with no bank or crank to put some energy back into his rotor.

If the engine did fail, he was too low and too slow to do anything, with not enough rotor rpm to trade for that vertical full stop landing in soft ground that might have minimized the damage that did occur.

I personally do not think he throttled back intentionally, though accept he may well have done. My thought would be a person settling in like that might have stick right back and max power to try and cushion the impact. With that wind up his backside, check out the windsock, any chance of being able to kill all forward speed was negligible.

In the earlier part/clip, not sure leaving an unattended gyro with a turning rotor is such a hot idea.

Some good lessons to be learned from an unfortunate accident.

[Illini85]

I was getting ready to ask a question about the the cause of the famous Ken Wallis crash video when I decided I should search the archives first and came across this thread. After watching this video and reviewing the Wallis video after reading the discussions here I think I have my answer.

Wallis at take off made a very steep climb that bled off air speed and then made a 180 degree downwind turn. While the climb should have loaded the rotors adequately the lack of airspeed it seems to me was the dominating factor. I would think a higher windspeed would facilitate takeoff and would make loss of altitude more pronounced on the downwind turn. So windspeed has a dramatic affect on handling and downwind turns in 10mph winds are not the issue that downwind turns in 30mph winds are. Am I thinking correctly here?

Regarding the video at the start of this thread it seems to me that yes he had bled off not only airspeed thus falling behind the powercurve but also rotor energy but the downwind turn doomed him to return to earth. It looked like he had fairly high winds in that environment.

Just a newbie observation. Any further eductational input is appreciated.
Thanks for a valuable discussion.

[ckurz7000]

I also noticed that the pilot in this video sesemed to "yaw" the gyro around the turn, i.e., using too little bank or too much rudder. I noticed this in other occasions in the video but he did it at altitude and that was OK.

This manoeuver exposes a lot of the side area of the gyro to the airstream and greatly increases drag. If you do this at low altitudes and airspeeds and don't have anough power left to get you out of the situation, this is exactly what happens.

-- Chris.

P.S.: I, too, heard the engine rpms drop just when I thought he should shove in full power to save the day.

[StanFoster]

Steve- There is no difference in making a turn in a 10 mph or a 30 mph downwind turn , unless you let your ground speed effect your cyclic inputs. It just boils down that turning downwind, the groundspeed is higher than the airspeed, and an inexperienced pilot will tend to let his airspeed slow thinking he has plenty of airspeed just because the ground is rushing by so fast. Stan

[EI-GYRO]

Ken Wallis's crash was engine failure at an awkward moment. Dirt in the magneto.