Blade trasher!

[quadrirotor]

how many rotors did you trash before being proficient? :D :o

[skyguynca]

Where is NONE ?

[Douglas Riley]

None while learning, but two busted AFTER many years of flying.

[Vance]

I think this might be a good true cost lesson for those who feel that training is too expensive. Rotor management is one of the skills my instructors have focused on. One of my instructors destroyed three Autogiros learning to fly. Even if you leave saftey out of the equation it would apear that training is a good deal. Thank you, Vance

[Screw]

Screw-In

I haven't trashed any yet, but how do you describe "proficient?" To date I think I'm around the 50 hours in gyros. I feel very comfortable with my abilities to manage rotors, but I don't consider myself proficient.

So far based on your question, I'd select "NONE."

Screw-Out

[gyromike]

Andre',

I have edited the poll and added "None" as an option.

[quadrirotor]

Thanks Mike.

[scott heger]

If you have good training, you should not have any ground bound rotor strikes. Easier said than done sometimes. I remember talking to Ken Brock a few years ago , and his self training answer was.....a few "sets"...

Scott Heger, Laguna Niguel, Ca N86SH

[KenSandyEggo]

Scott, you have a heli and a gyro. Do you support the blades on either when parked? Whoops. Is this called hijacking a thread? :o

[scott heger]

No neither are supported, or...should I say were.... The Jet Ranger went for a swim last year in Long Beach. I was not flying it, and all 4 onboard were not hurt, but it is a total loss. At least the other pilot missed hitting the Queen Mary by a few hundred feet. On to a more happy subject, the oldtimers I talked to don't support the blades on either unless they are being ground transported (off airport). The helicopters get bounced around pretty good while rolled around on the airport, and it does not seem to be much of a concern.



Scott Heger, Laguna Niguel, Ca N86SH

[birdy]

2 1/2 and counting. :D :D

[Victor Duarte]

scott !! is it you ?? trying to imitate the Kursk ?
better laugh now :(
did you lean on the right hand and tried to stop rotor on water ? or was it fortunately a good attitude ?
open a thread, it s worth, talking about emergency procedures etc.. and how the jet behave in water..
on a b206 low skids i also never saw blades stoped , but just holded by a belt with little sand sacks and a hook for the blade tip .. to prevent blades from teeter with wind... and once my "trainer" forgot to remove this... the engine was powerful enough to unroll the belt from the tail, and make it spin until it got in the tail rotor, i was under the main , shouting to stop... too late , it was chopped in pieces and fortunately, no dammage...

scott, open a thread, i shure it s of interest

thanks

[GyroRon]

I have flapped a set once - on my first machine, not long after I started flying. I had taken my pre rotator off for upgrades and in the meantime I was handstarting my blades and still flying. I got a tad to fast with the blades too slow and the stick was all the way back and they just started flapping with little warning. The tips of the blades just scrapped the ground but it did no real damage. Just scratched the bottom edge on the tip of the blades.

I also managed to screw up a set of blades - same set as above - Because I didn't know the bolts - to hold the blades to the hub bar - can go in real easy if you lift and or lower the blades around till the bolt just drops through. what I would do if the bolt wouldn't go through easy, is grab my hammer and pound them through. Needless to say I screwed up the holes and started having to string the blades. These blades were Sportcopter blades and those don't have to be stringed - unless you did what I did..... Oh well, you live and you learn.

[StanFoster]

Ron: What about "reaming" out the holes with a drill bit? Made my sportcopter bolts nice and easy to install..... :eek: just kidding :D

Stan

[scott heger]

Victor, some Jet Rangers float, this one did(upside down). The pilot encountered LTE(loss of tail rotor effectivness)while filming a boat race. The helicopter went into a flat decending spin, and he did not correct it immediately. He was at 400 feet and had plenty of altitude to fix it. As the owner, I was not a happy person that day (no hull insurance), but relieved no one was hurt... the most important thing. The pilot, a father and son of the race boat being filmed, and a cameraman were onboard.


Scott Heger, Laguna Niguel, Ca N86SH

[jucie]

I have an anedoctal evidence, valid for Brazil, 20 years ago (long before dual trainning made possible): an average of 3 pairs of rotor blades per student. :eek:

[Victor Duarte]

scott, too bad for you, but fortynately no one died, it would have been worse...
isn't there an emergency procedure, over water, that recommends, in case of controlled crash, to roll on right side, so the adv. blade touches water and stops rotor ? and what about gyros ? anyone learned something that way ?

thanks !

[scott heger]

Victor, you are right. The procedure is to bury the cyclic to the right to stop the advancing blade. However in this case, doing so came very close to chopping off part of the pilot. The pilots side front pillar and over head windowtook a blade strike across it. The impact twisted the entire front of the helicopter and broke out both front windows.The hit was glancing enough not to go hit him, but was very close. Thye attached pictures show what happens when 500+ H.P of blade breaks off. The mast had a clean twisting snap in it. The rotorhead and blades were not recovered(nor has my bank account).

Scott Heger, Laguna Niguel, Ca N86SH

[Victor Duarte]

ouch scott :( was it rebuilt? or trashed ?
my ex father in law was crop sprayer on b47 and once (i was not there) hit an electric line, all the b47 was twisted and he had the helmet broken by a main blade just stopped about the mast... yes choppers and gyros deal with huge forces...
but you gyro guys learn something in case of predictable crash (except to pray :() ?
cheers

[banaari]

Gaarggh!!!!!

Thought experiment: Consider asking a licensed member of the fixed-wing general aviation community "How many serious accidents did you have while learning to fly?" ...

[GyroRon]

Scott, you had no hull coverage and someone else sunk your chopper? There has to be more to this story!!! Did the pilot pay for the damage? Did you have several Partners? this is a story I would like to hear more about.

[scott heger]

Ron, yes,yes,most of it,not any more,email me. Victor, it went into saltwater, it was junked for 15K. 'Nuff said.

Scott Heger, Laguna Niguel, Ca N86SH

[ventana7]

I have not trashed any yet but only have 50 hours of gyro time.

I'm afraid it might be bad karma to check none so I did not vote. :p

Rob

[Vance]

I would like to see the second part of the question be how much training? Especialy for those that haven't wrecked any. thank you, Vance

[landman]

does being prificient mean being poor

Martin

[thallett]

Be glad to answer that question, but can't because it says "before being proficient". Not proficient yet.

[scottessex]

Here is my trashed set, Not from learning to fly , but after a ground roll-over after and engine-out takeoff. :mad:
I didn't hit any trees! :)

[Victor Duarte]

he he "no animal was wounded during the movie" :D :D
sorry scott, not fun :(
the hub bar broke cleanly like a piece of glass. And alu blades.. nicely curly.
A question Scott, do you feel you could have recovered Composite blades ?
thanks

[scottessex]

Hey Victor, I don't think composite blades would have done much better. I know that the blades were probably spinning close to 200 rpm when they hit the dirt. I am sure it would have been spectacular to see on video. But when the gyro rolled over, the prop hit the dirt also, and I sent it back to Warp Drive and they said 2 of the composite propeller blades were trash.

The hub bar was 3/4" by 2 3/4" 6061T-6 and you can see how it ripped it apart.
Composite blades probably would have exploded sending shrapnel into the surrounding
fields and might have killed some cows. :eek:

I know it is not something to joke about, But I am very thankfull I walked away with only my gyro and my feelings hurt. :)

[Victor Duarte]

Fortunately scott, i would know if someone had a similar crash with compo blades, to compare.
"what doesn't kill us makes us stronger" who said that ?
cheers

[Al Fraser]

None, but I did chop some fresh corn with a set of Rotordynes. The blades made it through without a scratch. I can’t say the same for the corn. Cream corn anyone?

[Doug Riley]

Victor, I think it was Nietsche. Sounds like something he'd say, anyway.

[Vance]

Doug, you are a renaissance man. Thank you, Vance

[Victor Duarte]

hi doug, hi vance, I didnt check if it was nietsche but, good words anyway,

An intesting question would be "did you have a crash, and how did you manage that ?"
i mean, like in all speed sports, a hard crash may trauma the pilot for long, a lot of old pilots just recommend not to stop flying (driving) but to jump in again as soon as possible... did you have this kind of behaviour ?
Thanks

[John_Read]

Fortunately scott, i would know if someone had a similar crash with compo blades, to compare.
"what doesn't kill us makes us stronger" who said that ?
cheers

The blades I trashed where skywheels. They impacted the ground at flying speed, and the result was not pretty. But they did not disintegrate an threaten any cows who might have been in the vicinity. One of them broke almost in two at the hub-bar end; both of them were nicely delaminated and crinkled up for their whole length. The mast was bent into a graceful curve, and one control rod was also bent. Later I discovered the Jesus bolt was slightly bent as well, but I flew for several hours with that defect undiscovered.

These little aircraft are very strong. I was perfectly safe in the pyramid described by keel, axle and mast.

John

[Dean_Dolph]

.....These little aircraft are very strong. I was perfectly safe in the pyramid described by keel, axle and mast.

JohnJohn, a quick question that I hope no one expands on to hijack this thread.

Were you using a seat belt only or also a shoulder harness?