Anyone familiar with this gyro kit?

[Danough]

Hey gang,

Is there anyone out there who has owned, or known someone who owned, or is aware of the reputation of this gyro as a flier?

http://gallery.me.com/dbrtgm/100001/Falcon%20SXS

It was offered by Falcon but is now owned by Phoenix rotorcraft. I'm sort of thinking about building it as my first gyro and finding an instructor willing to train me in it. Any advice/opinions? I'm mainly interested in info about this particular gyro, not the pitfalls of owning a two place as a first gyro or owning a side by side as a first two place. :)

Thanks a bunch!
Dan

[WHY]

Hi Dan

Talk to the man at Phoenix Rotorcraft before you make a decision on the Flacon.

Tony

[Danough]

Hi Dan

Talk to the man at Phoenix Rotorcraft before you make a decision on the Flacon.

Tony

Thanks Tony...yes, I've spoken with Anthony at Phoenix Rotorcraft. So far, I'm very impressed. Seems like a great guy and an honest businessman. I was just looking for independent information on the design.

Dan

[Vance]

What is it you like about it Dan?

Has the one in the picture flown?

Thank you, Vance

[Danough]

What is it you like about it Dan?

Has the one in the picture flown?

Thank you, Vance

Hi Vance,

Didn't think I'd get a response from a list celebrity such as yourself!

I like this gyro because it is an open design side-by-side which are rare these days. It is a drop keel design so the thrust line ought to at least be close to center. It'll probably require a lot of power to push it's draggy butt through the air I'm told.

I don't know if it has flown, which is one reason I started this thread. Please let me know if you're aware of anyone who has seen this gyro fly, or flown one.

Thanks for the reply Vance,
Dan

[Vance]

Hello Dan,

It is important for you to understand that I have never built a gyroplane and all of my theories and imagined understandings have yet to be proved.

My preferences are often influenced by a flight regimen outside of the typical gyroplane usage.

Those seem like good reasons to me.

I don’t know of one like it that has flown.

I have learned not to imagine where the center of gravity is just by looking at a gyroplane.

I am a tandem enthusiast.

Unless you want to fly faster than around 60 miles per hour I am not sure that the gyroplanes aerodynamic qualities should be at the top of your concerns.

I like the tall rudder and the low mounted horizontal stabilizer.

I am not a full flying rudder enthusiast and I don’t know how it works with the separate vertical stabilizers.

The devil is in the details. How the details are managed has a lot to do with how satisfying an experience you will have. I am not able to see the details from the picture.

In my experience the third iteration of a design is where most of the mistakes get worked out. If this is the first you need to be ready to do some development work. There are always flaws in the first one.

Good luck on your adventure, Vance

[Doug Riley]

Dan, OK -- let's agree to put aside discussion of the pitfalls of a 2-place as a first gyro, or a SxS as a first gyro. You're still left, in this case, with what is essentially a PROTOTYPE as a first gyro. That's much riskier than the other two "firsts."

It's not hard to mount SxS seating on a single-place gyro, move the rotorhead forward and call it a 2-place. There are many other considerations in this transition, though.

The wider frontal area presented by 2 persons adds not only to drag, but also to propeller inefficiency and noise. In turn, the big, messed-up wake and disorderly propwash can degrade the functioning of the tail surfaces.

Sometimes people beef up their airframes. Sometimes the result is an excessively stiff mast. This, in turn, can concentrate the vibrating loads developed by the rotor in parts of the rotor head or rotor blades. Cracking and even outright breakage have occasionally resulted. To assure yourself that no such problem is present here, you need either LOTS of flight time on multiple copies of the craft, or sophisticated strain testing (which nobody in the homebuilt biz seems to bother with).

I'd suggest sticking with a long-standing design with a good safety record, no matter what configuration you want. A newbie should NOT be a test pilot. (BTW, most old-bies don't care to be one, either. That's how they survived to become old-bies.)

[gyroplanes]

I believe this actual (pictured) machine has had 3-4 owners. I have known the last two quite well. The PO left it to languish in a hangar (unflown) for 2-3 years, the current owner has had it (unflown) in his garage for the last year or two.

[Brent_Brown]

Why unflown do they know how to fly a gyroplane?

he can pull a seat off and make it a solo flyer. no need for it to set all this time.

[Danough]

Doug- I'm paying attention to your advice because a) it makes sense and has a ring of truth, b) you have a wealth of knowledge and experience, and 3) I wanna be an old-bie like you one day!

Dan

[Timchick]

I can't view the photo with my browser. Can someone copy it and post it here in the thread? Thanks.

[JEFF TIPTON]

Here you go.

[ScoutPilot]

Hi Dan,
The machine you are talking about is a RH-1 Falcon II gyroplane, it was originally designed by Neal Carnes formerly Rotor Hawk Industries. I am only aware of three of these machines built. Unfortunately I have not seen one fly. I was told by Neal that this machine was flown down the runway and it seemed stable. I wish I knew more about its flight time but that is it.

I do know Neal did nice work on his machines and kits, Neal is a good machinist and a very honest man.

Good luck with your research

Chuck

[bopflyer]

Hi all, Interesting to read the comments on a side by side gyro. Could someone tell me what the SxS Air Command was like to fly. I also understand that there was a kit that could be bought to raise the gyro to make it more centre line thrust, and if that made it a better flying machine after the modification.
Cheers Barry

[Resasi]

Hi Dan, given the dearth of information on it's flying qualities and history, as a newbie I would probably in this case be following Doug's advice.
You're still left, in this case, with what is essentially a PROTOTYPE as a first gyro. That's much riskier than the other two "firsts."

Tom's comments about two owners leaving it un-flown for years would also be raising a warning flag with me. I would at the least be asking to see it demonstrated.

It must be tempting to go for a two-seater especially if the price seems good, and it may well be a perfectly good machine.

Another consideration, would be able to get an Instructor willing to train you on it. Might have to check on that as well before making what could be an expensive mistake and some more 'Hanger Queen' time for a third non flying owner.

There are many others out there that have proven records so good luck with your entry to an interesting and rewarding sport.

[Rehan K.Janjua]

AirCommand SxS machines were mostly used for training and

flying around the pattern.

I got my first lesson on a A/C 532 SxS. 1978 model.

The other possibility is to learn on your SxS with a instructor and then
convert it a single place. The transition factor will be minimun.

Good Luck.

[Friendly]

Sometimes people beef up their airframes. Sometimes the result is an excessively stiff mast. This, in turn, can concentrate the vibrating loads developed by the rotor in parts of the rotor head or rotor blades. Cracking and even outright breakage have occasionally resulted.


Doug,
If you can recall any threads on this subject, would please pm the the links. I would like to read more about it. Thank you

[gyroplanes]

Sorry, I lost track of this thread. The machine pictured is currently a single seat.
The PO was a big guy, bought it as a single seat and hoped to get instruction, couldn't so he bought a Marchetti. Both gyros were sitting when he died.
The Falcon was bought by another guy in our club, who now has two gyros sitting and unflown (and he has flown gyros) The Marchetti was sold to a CFI in Ohio. (IIRC)_