Wanted KB-2

[Kandace]

Hi all!! I've been away for a while and I've decided to build what I wanted in the first place a KB-2 with a VW engine. To that end, can anybody help me with either parts or even a complete KB-2 that needs some TLC?

It is good to be back.............

Kandace :rolleyes:

[scottessex]

I don't want to start anything here, But John Stevens told me he "may" sell his vw powered KB to finish his little wing...Send him a PM.

[Brent_Brown]

I have one for you and when I get home I will send you a photo. It is a Bensen with a VW another one has a Mac. and the last one will most likely have my MZ 202 on it this on has a short drop keel already but all need TLC. I found them about 30 mile from me. No price yet but I will go and see them this weekend. My plan was to to put my tall tail on all of them and get them all in the air and see if he would give my one for that work.

[joeheli]

Kandanse theres couple of them for sell on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2497502381&sspagename=ADME%3AB%3ASS%3AUS%3A1

I hope this help!

[Screw]

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Check your private messages Kandace, or send me an email to:

jpstevens2003@yahoo.com

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[Friendly]

you "GO GIRL" , glad to have you back amoung us free flight rotorheads.

[Brent_Brown]

here are the gyros

[Brent_Brown]

OK here they are

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I'm sorry. This is a bad shot of the gyro, but it's flying!!!! :D :eek: :D

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[GyroRon]

John... looks like the pic I took?

Brent.... those machines look like they haven't seen light in 30 years! where did you dig up that treasure?

[Kandace]

Thank you for the photos Brent.....any ideas on how much is being asked for the Gyros? Also where are they located?

Kandace

[Brent_Brown]

They are in in NC. I will ask this weekend what he wants for them. and post it here. He said the VW should fly as is. I will see about that.

[jucie]

What about those big wheels, Brent?
How well do the wheels work?
(I hope my poor English isn't playing jokes with me now) :)

[Brent_Brown]

I will say the big wheels might work on that light gyro but would change it back to the size that is on the KB2.

I would like to convert them to bike fork nose gear, tall tails, seat tanks.

most likely change them to walking controls not pump type.

[Friendly]

Brent , isn't that close to Ron? don't tell me he doesn't klnow about these gyros.

[Brent_Brown]

Not real close but he can fly here in less than an hour

[Brent_Brown]

The other gyro he had is this. I asked him to post here so you can get more info. I will post his phone number here.

[Kandace]

Hi Brent, Did you ever get any pricing information about the Gyro's? I'd be interested in the VW powered one.

Kandace

[GyroRon]

Anyone looking for a nice Kb-2 gyro needs to buy John Stevens machine. For what he is willing to take for it, it is a steal!!! Otherwise you can certainly buy a old junker and play "fix it up" but you will either end up having as much money in it as you would had you bought Johns, or you end up still having a junker.

[Brent_Brown]

He said looking at 5000 for the VW. It is the best of the lot.

[scottessex]

Johns gyro is certainly first class. Everything he has done, or had done has been done well, No half-A-- workmanship. No engine troubles at all---ever!

[Kandace]

I would love to have Da Screw Driver, I just cannot come up with a big lump of cash like that.

If I build or fix something up, I can spread out the money over a period of time.

Kandace

[GyroRon]

John might allow a downpayment and then let you pay the rest over a set period of time. Email him and ask. Or don't..... But take it from someone who has bought and sold probably 30 aircraft in the last few years, you will have more money in that 5 thousand dollar Bensen, than in Da screw driver by the time you make the Bensen right.

If you want a cheap gyro, I can put you in touch with another forum member here that has two nice used gyros that he will sell. A nice part 103 legal Gyrobee for under 5 grand flying and a very nice Soma that I am sure you could buy for under 7. Both are flying and both are nice.

[Kandace]

Brent, Thank you for getting the information on the VW gyro for me, but I think 5k for that is a bit much, Well lets be honest from the picture it is absurd.

[gyromike]

Where is the fuel tank on the VW gyro?

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As much as I hate to do this, "DaScrew-Driver" is up for grabs. Daddy needs funds for Little Wing Project, "DaScrew-driver II"

Brief Description:

Ken Brock KB-2 1835cc VW rated at 65hp with 52-28 Tennessee Wood Prop
Ron Herron "T" Tail.
23ft. Dragon Wings, 8.3 gal seat tank.
Registered as N34KB 43hoursTTSN Maticuloius logs.
Just completed 40 hours phase I testing and all is well.
Gyro is balanced for me @ 215lbs. Can re-hang for new owner.
Wonderliche Pre-Rotator, Rotor Brake
Steerable Nosewheel
SX Adjustable Trim

Instruments:
ASI
Compass
Altimeter
Tachometer
CHT
Oil Pressure
Oil Temp
Tiny Tach (Newly Installed)
External antenna (Newly Installed)
Glove Box
Outrigger for radio and GPS

Perfect gyro for those who don't want to build and would like an "N" registered Gyroplane. This Gyroplane is able to get in and out of Airports with no problems. I am using Synthetic oil and Avgass.

Kit new was $11,200 stock.
plus upgrades like Dragon Wings, "T" Tail ect. Over 14k invested.

$9,500. OBO

Interested parties, please send me an email at jpstevens2003@yahoo.com
or send me a PM.

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[Brent_Brown]

I think it had a side mount tank. Yes it is not that nice. I would start from tubes before I buy anything. I hate to say it but all new parts could get you in the air for 5000 with a DD VW. If you do ALL the work.

[Screw]

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I love ya Brent, But your math doesn't work.

1. Airframe- If you knew the cousin to a brother that worked for an internet company that sells metal wholesale and could get your hands on the right grade of metal, maybe $300-400 including cheekplates, and bracing. You do the work, cutting, measuring, drilling, and bending. Or $920 for a pre-drilled airframe from Ken Brock Manufacturing with rudder pedals and pod frame.

Well hell, lets forget about the airframe all together. Say you got one for free from your brother cousin.

2. Wheels and brakes. Your not gonna fabricate, so they can run from $60 bucks a piece to $495 for a light wieght set including nosewheel.

3. Nosewheel- You can rape a small childs bicycle and frabricate or check above.

4. Rudder pedals- You can fabricate for free.

5. Head- $500 from KBM or $550 from Ernie Rotr flight Dynamics
6. Blades-$1300 for Brock, $1600 for DW, or "Used" $800-900.
7. Gas Tank-$270 buck for 8 gal seat tank
8. Anyway you slice it new, used, rebuilt 3k-6k. Yes I know, you can buyem out of a juck yard for $200-500. But know one tells you the sh*t it takes to get it running. running for your application, mounted. "Screw-It." Lets say you got a ready engine free of charge for Christmas.

9. Tail-$400 from Brent Brown
10. Hardware. Just enough AN nuts and bolts to put the airframe together-$145.00
11. Engine mount- Fabricate for Free
12. Engine instruments- $200 Nobody really sells used instruments
13. Other flight instruments (Optional) $200 Nobody really sells used instruments.
14. Throttle quadrant-$40 bucks
15. fuel lines- $15
16. Oil lines $50 (Expensive 1/2 inch very high Temp rating)
17. Prop-$360-$600
How are we doing so far withoput the expense of an airframe or engine and all fabrication is "Free." Using the low numbers:

wheels-$60X3=$180
head- =$500
used blades =$800
Brent Tail =$400
used seattank=$100
instruments =$100
hardware =$145
throttle =$40
fuel oil lines =$50
prop =$360
Total =$2675 just in sh*t people don't think about and that's without the airframe or the engine.

Lets add a $600 for an old airframe and $1500 for a used engine you bought off somebody (This aint NEW). Your so close to 5k it hurts and that's not even having the engine looked at or overhauled. But hey, that's why they call it "EXPERIMENTAL" right.

If you buy anything new, your over 10k just thinking about it. I've found that people that supply the right parts and sizes are often times cheaper and less time consuming than fabricating.

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BTW- I left off the Ring gear in the head, prerotator, rotor brake, trim spring, and steerable nosewheel linkages. I wouldn't want anyone to enjoy the modern conviences of Gyro flying. Those items alone are in excess of $850.00.

I also didn't mention things like starters, alternators, voltage regualator, battery, and electrical systems. Wouldn't want anyone spoiled.

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[GyroRon]

Don't forget Paint and a ashtray!

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I'm not trying to bust you up Brent, but telling a newbee that they can go out buy the materials and new parts and have a flying machine for 5k to me is very misleading. A 5k gyro is like a Unicorn.

You on the otherhand, have been doing this a very long time, and you fabricate alot of your own stuff. If you have to shell $40 or $50 bucks here and there, I'm sure you don't think much of it. You probably have a well equipt shop with tools designed for cutting and shaping metal. You can buy an engine for $100 bucks and rebuild it yourself. You probably have an old prop laying around that could be used too.

Newbees and people like me who don't have much experiance in building have a few choices. Buy new parts and pre-fitted stuff, or pay someone to build for us, build ourselves, or buy used.

There is a lot that goes into building that the builders of this forum take for granted, that newbees and nonbuilders don't know about. That's why the number of kits bought verses kits flying are so far away. Newbees trying to take the cheap way out and build themselves iether suceed, quit, sell, or spend way more money than if they had bought a built one.

I'm a pilot, not a builder. I built one, but it was all pre-fab, and I had alot of help from Steve McGowan and Scott Essex. Who does a newbee have to help them in there search for the 5k unicorn?

I don't know of anyone who is willing to donate 200 hours of fabrication time to help a newbee find their unicorn for free. Are you? If not, be realistic with them is all I'm saying.

When I approached you about a Tail for "DaScrew-Driver," you were willing to help me for $400. What is your tail made of, foam, tube, fiberglass. So a newbee can buy the materials for $60-$80 bucks and just build one right? I don't think so.

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[Friendly]

Tim , I believe you under priced the head, but if you have a source that selles them for $500 let me know. I agree with the rest of your math if you are really shopping price. A quality machine is going to cost you some quality cash. You tend to get what you pay for except Ron, He finds these sweetheart deals that are not findable by anyone else. Or we would have sold 30 machines. Maybe he has just got more $ than the rest of us. lol (just kidding Ron) keep buying and selling.

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Friendly, Who's Tim? KBM sells there head for $495 without ringear.

Thanks Ron I didn't mention paint. "Rattle cans for $20 bucks!"

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[scottessex]

Geeze John Lighten up! :D
You know I can build a gyro for $5000!

and then another $5000 to re-build it! :D

Looking back I should have spent the extra money the first time to get a good engine and good blades and I probably wouldn't be doing it over.

I would tell a newbie to spend the money up front and buy a flying gyro, or buy a kit.

I do like building, but I like flying alot too.

Kandace, Just figure what ever your budget is: double it, that will get you close......Time to build, realisticly,,,,then triple it, then add you training, time and cost, and if you are lucky, you will finish your gyro about the time you are ready to solo, and evrything will work out.

[GyroRon]

It IS possible to build a gyro like a KB-2 or Bensen with a VW or Subaru Direct Drive or even with a older used Rotax for around 5 grand. But it takes lot's of searching for bargin priced old used parts, such as blades and rotorhead, prop, engine etc...

Sometimes a good used gyro pops up that is priced extremely low. The Bensen I sold to Mike Morgan was one. The Falcon I sold to Jamie Bodie was another.... both nice machines - the Falcon was like brand spanking new except no blades - and both I bought and sold for under 4 grand. But deals like that rarely come up. I am always looking and I haven't bought anything recently if that gives you a clue. I know of a few nice machines for sale and all of them are either posted here in this thread - Currans Gyrobee and Soma - or are posted on this site - Johns KB, Chuck Bevitts Tweety bird gyro -

Anyway, you get what you pay for. I haven't seen many nice gyros that sold for cheap.

[Screw]

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That was funny Scott, but I wasn't thinking of you when I posted the above. Ron, you have had some good deals come around the corner every now and again and for the most part I agree with you.

Hell, I can't even find an engine for under 5k.

Subaru

Buy from Junk Yard-$200
Rebuild for aerial Applications $3000.
mounting and hardware-$200.
redrive-$2500
Prop-$600
Misc Accessories-$200
Total=$6700

Used Subaru w/t redrive
$3500
Misc Accessories-$200
mounting & hardware-$200
prop-$600
Total-$4500 if I'm lucky and don't need anyone to look at the motor.

New zero time 2180cc VW with 1.6:1 Redrive with 103hp@4200RPM 80hp@3400RPM
Assembled with starter, alternator, Test ran, Shipped, ready to bolt on
$6700
Prop-$400
Total=$7,100

My head hurts. Not as bad as my wallet though.

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[scottessex]

John, have you ever thought about being an accountant?

[Brent_Brown]

Your right John I am sorry to mislead anyone and push your bottons. But for the money go to the for sale post and look at the 532/Dom forsale it is a project and a nice deal 2000. If that motor is new as posted then a 5000 gyro is in the making. I might get it put it together sale it to pay for my other projects. I would love to have someone close to me so we can build and fly something. That is what the chapters are about.

[Screw]

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You didn't push my button Brent, I just impathise with Kandace because I've been there, done that. I still love ya like a second cousin :D

I believe it is possible to own a flying gyro for 5k. But they are screeming deals that come around every so often, and you never know what all your getting into until you have it. Then after, a ton of money to get it right for you, you can't say I have a 5k gyro anymore.

The best deal I've ever seen come through this forum, was Ron Awads Red Dominator 582 for $9500 bucks ready to go! If I had the money, I would have been all over it. All in all, I like his new Dominator now because of the blue head 582. It's little tail heavy for me, but he likes it.

Like they say, hind sight is 20/20.


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[Screw]

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Yeap!

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[GyroRon]

My gyro isn't tail heavy! your just not used to a long travel control system. My stick moves twice the distance fore and aft that most gyro controls systems will allow. It makes my machine less sensitive and easier to fly.

[Screw]

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Ron's right. It may not be tail heavy, the trim and power just isn't what I'm used too. I flew his and I kept finding myself pushing on the cyclic to maintain level flight or reduce my acent. As soon as I figured out to reduce power it maintain level flight hands free.

Add power, you climb, reduce power, you decend. Just like I was taught in school.

I'm used to flying and I like my trim set with a little back pressure. Lets me know I alive! If I want to decend, I relax on the cyclic.

There is nothing in the world wrong with his gyro other than it's not part of my fleet. Then again, I may not be used to all of that disposable power. Of course, if it were mine, my first mod would be an SX Adjustable Trim :D

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[GyroRon]

It is not a trim issue John. It is how a Dominator flys.....

At cruise power, 5700 -5800 rpm, hands off the gyro flys along level at 70 mph. If you don't touch the stick at all and add power, especially alot of power, the gyro will start to climb and the nose will raise slightly causing a reduction in airspeed. Trim spring tension won't change that. When taking off and climbing out under full power you have to hold a slight forward pressure to keep the airspeed fast if you want it fast.

If you reduce power from cruise, the nose drops and the airspeed will stay about the same.

Again, there is nothing wrong with the machine. Weight and balance is perfect - it hung right in the middle of the reccommended range. It is just that your not used to flying a machine like it.

You know if I had never flown any other gyros than my Dominator, I would be thinking that your rudder is not big enough or something cause it takes so much deflection at slower speeds to keep the gyro flying straight and true. In another thread you posted a picture of me coming in for a landing in your gyro. Look at my feet and the rudder pedals and even the rudder itself in those pictures! ............... But there is nothing wrong with your Rudder cause I know that is just how that machine flys. Barrys gyrobee with his homebrewed tail flys exactly the same. But coming from a Dominator it is quite weird, cause we barely need to even touch the pedals much less use nearly full travel. See my point Smartypants!

[Screw]

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I never said there was anything wrong with your Gyro.... If anything it's the pilot (me). :D D*mn you get so defensive for a guy who out flies me in my own d*mn machine! :eek:

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