New Ultralight Options !!!!

[GyroDoug]

Announcing New Ultralight Options !!! Larry Neal has just made two new Butterfly Gyroplanes available to the public. Both are legal ultralights and will weigh in at under 254 lbs. Both will use Dragon Wing Rotorblades and both will come with a new high tech (and very light) electric Pre-Rotator as a standard feature. They both use a 5 gallon seat tank and include a taxi brake system.

The standard Ultralight will be available with your choice of either an MZ 201 (45 HP engine) or a Rotax 503 (50 HP engine - [as long as they are available]). This complete kit will sell for $14,995.00. And since it is an ultralight and not officially considered an aircraft (by the FAA) you can have it completely assembled by the factory if you prefer for another $3,000.00. This machine has been designed to provide good performance for up to a 200 lb. pilot flying from an area close to sea level.

He has also designed a model he is calling his Super Ultralight. This model will be just like the standard model but will use an MZ 202 (60 HP engine) and will be designed to provide good performance for a pilot up to 225 lbs, flying from an area close to sea level. This model comes in a complete kit for only $15,995.00 and can also be completely factory built for $3,000.00 more.

These are both going to include many options that once were considered very difficult to include and stay within legal ultralight weight but Larry has managed to design an ultralight machine that will use High Performance Dragon Wing Rototblades. To do that of course you have to have a Pre-Rotator and he has developed a new High Tech, Hi Power, simple to use electric Pre-Rotator that will take the Rotors up to 225 RRPM. These machines will also have instrumentation like dual egt gauges, engine rpm and airspeed. They will have a taxi brake system and sufficient power to provide good performance for a Pilot up to 225 lbs. All this coupled with a price that is very reasonable could really help this sport take off.

This information is so new it is not on the Butterfly website yet but if you are interested you can contact me for more details at "doug@domaworld.com or my cell which is (801) 628-7598.

[Kevin_Richey]

Impressive.

The only manufacturer to offer an ultralight gyroplane!

Also, assembled, if one wants it.

[Georgi]

Doug,excellent news! Pictures ,please!

[GaryMac]

I agree... great news, indeed. Do you hava any pictures? Does it look like a regular butterfly?

I'm assuming the g-force is not an option for the ultralights....

Thanks, GaryMac

[GyroDoug]

I will be glad to get pictures posted as soon as I have them.

You are right, you can not have the G-Force Landing gear on an ultralight. It does have to be a very basic machine. However it does have a powerful Pre-rotator and some instrumentation, and brakes and as high as 60 HP for good performance. I think that is nothing short of incredible.

[CLS447]

Now that was good thinking !

[StanFoster]

Doug- I feel this is major news for gyros! Offering a true ultralight gyro should open up the market for many new potential buyers. Plus the option of having it built would be another big plus for the ones that do not want to build their gyro. This has to be a big step forward and I hope it overwhelms the company with new orders. An article in our PRA magazine would catch a lot of interest from the subscribers that do not fly gyros. Stan

[Penguin]

Doug:
Will Larry offer the fuel injected MZ202?
I'm also curious as to details on the electric pre-rotator.

[Heron]

With the new breed of brushless electric engines, pre rotation will be an easy job and less weight to.
If the engines come down another tad, weight wise, we can make a pretty good single seater for the ultralight bracket.
How is the instructor´s base coming along, Doug?
thanks
Heron

[GyroDoug]

Doug:
Will Larry offer the fuel injected MZ202?
I'm also curious as to details on the electric pre-rotator.

Larry,

I'm sorry but we haven't talked about the fuel injected version so I can't tell you for sure but knowing Larry the way I do, I sure can't think of any reason he wouldn't. I will talk to him about it and let you know more when I know more.

Details on the Pre-rotator are not available yet but when he is ready to disclose them to the world, rest assured I will be happy to let everyone know about it.

[GyroDoug]

How is the instructor´s base coming along, Doug?
thanks
Heron

Heron,

As you know well, getting instruction in a Gyroplane is still one of the biggest challenges most newcomers to our sport will face. We are certainly working on getting more Gyro CFIs into the game but to do that we also need to get more new students into the game. I really believe having a reasonably priced ultralight Gyro will make all the difference to that aspect but time will tell.

[Resasi]

Larry has produced quality machines and the Butterfly was a good example.

An Ultralight version of that would seem to be an excellent way of boosting the sport and opening it up to those who simply want to fly without the twin hurdles of getting a licence and building a machine.

Look forward to seeing this being demonstrated and available.

[Dmorris]

This may be the biggest single contribution to the advancement of the gyro industry in years. Bravo Larry!

[All_In]

Larry and I talked more bout this than Oshkosh just the other day. I thanked him for bringing an ultra-light to our sport...!

I also suggested that the first dealer that flies across the country in his flying motorcycle, folding up the rotors and driving to the biggest TV station in each city and say "I've got a flying motorcycle in your parking lot, and a great story for you If you got a cameraman available for a unique story! In the interview mention that you will be flying at the airport for the next X days" (Taking orders for motorcycle drivers mainly is my bet... big time) = Doug!!!

The good news I think manufactures are starting to figure it out, independently, as I have verified the rumors that at least one other manufacture is coming out with a ultralight!!!"

Cheers,
John

[PW_Plack]

I applaud Larry for his efforts, and can't wait to see the machine! That said, I feel the need to note that whether it's a good thing for the sport will have much to do with how it's used.

The only "advantages" a true UL has over an experimental of the same weight is that you can fly it with no license, no training, no medical, no registration, no inspection, no maintenance, and pretty much no questions. I'm all for the freedom to do exactly that if it's what you want, but if a bunch of buyers with "macho" or "anti-authority" attitudes jump in, it could produce a bump in the accident rate, which would not be a positive for the sport.

[Resasi]

Since Igor Bensen did just this when he began the sport it would be interesting to research if he too had a bunch of people killing themselves and bringing the brand new sport into disrepute.

[PW_Plack]

Since Igor Bensen did just this when he began the sport it would be interesting to research...

How many guys who self-train and fly ultralights to avoid any contact with the government are going to report in when they ball it up? I would have little faith in the database regarding early UL gyros.

I don't know Larry well, but I believe he's probably given this matter some thought. I'll look forward to talking with him at Oshkosh.

[Resasi]

How many guys who self-train and fly ultralights to avoid any contact with the government are going to report in when they ball it up?

Not a lot Paul.

I would have little faith in the database regarding early UL gyros.

In those days they certainly did not have the near instantaneous worldwide reporting on any incident, accident, or potentially newsworthy item that is grist to the media of today. Many probably did not make it to any database.

One such example, the sad accident of a Mosquito in the Rotary Forum today. That will have been read about by members of this Forum wherever on the globe they are within hours of it happening.

The buyers of Larry Neal's machine will however have the benefit of years of accumulated experience in gyros that has been gathered and distilled for them on how best to avoid killing themselves.

I would imagine that Larry will have put some thought into this, may well have some form of advice for buyers of the machine, but like almost anything sold today, all one can do is put a sticker on it saying this product has lethal potential.

It will sadly be inevitable that there will be a percentage of the people that will not listen to advice, instructions or avail themselves of instruction. We see it within the membership of this Forum amongst those who should know.

[PW_Plack]

Leigh, agreed on all. I didn't mean to pull this off-topic. Larry's doing a great service to the sport, and I commend him for it. It's up to all of us to mentor those who buy ULs, especially if they show no signs of having contact with the sport's mainstream or other source of safety culture.

[Wiplash]

This is fantastic!

A true Ultralight gyro with factory support. The only thing that could make this better is if you could buy it in segments like Aviomania is doing with the Genesis. hint hint, wink wink, nudge nudge... :yo:

[dabkb2]

This is great news, way to go Larry. Can't wait to see what Larry has come up with.

[barnstorm2]

Larry Neil kicks butt.

Doug, are you going to write up a blurb for the mag?

.

[magilla]

Want to see plans for the electric pre-rotator!!!!!! or maybe an option to buy the pre-rotator!! It is the only thing holding me up right now from flying the Jungle Gym!

[Redbaron]

I think it takes a lot of book smarts and a healthy respect for the air and how it can kill you to truely be able to self train. "macho men" people who have no respect of what others say and are anti athority, tend to eat it good! Had a friend go down, was all over the news that probally didn't understand what a stall was, pretty bad! :puke:


Since Igor Bensen did just this when he began the sport it would be interesting to research if he too had a bunch of people killing themselves and bringing the brand new sport into disrepute.

[GyroDoug]

This is fantastic!

A true Ultralight gyro with factory support. The only thing that could make this better is if you could buy it in segments like Aviomania is doing with the Genesis. hint hint, wink wink, nudge nudge... :yo:

Todd,

Interesting that you would bring that up. Larry has told me that he will sell the basic ultralight kit (less an engine and propeller) for $9,995.00 You could then buy the rest from Larry when you are ready or choose to put something else on it and finish it out any way you want. How's that for breaking it up a little?

[GyroDoug]

Larry Neil kicks butt.

Doug, are you going to write up a blurb for the mag?

.

Tim,

I am working on an article for the magazine as we speak. No idea how quickly it will get published though.

[GyroDoug]

Want to see plans for the electric pre-rotator!!!!!! or maybe an option to buy the pre-rotator!! It is the only thing holding me up right now from flying the Jungle Gym!

Spenser,

I don't think Larry will be putting out any drawings, plans or details to help people copy his Pre-rotator design. He also has a policy against selling parts (like a pre-rotator system) of his designs. His attitude is: if a person wants a gyroplane with his cutting edge design advantages, they need to buy one of his kits. While anyone can see what he has done and do their best to copy it, he isn't going to go our of his way to make that easier for them. Sorry!

[PW_Plack]

...I am working on an article for the magazine as we speak. No idea how quickly it will get published though.

Doug, I happen to have an "in" with the editor of Western Rotorcraft, and I even have reason to believe there'd be room in the next issue for a couple pictures. Let me put in a word on your behalf... ;)

[GyroDoug]

Doug, I happen to have an "in" with the editor of Western Rotorcraft, and I even have reason to believe there'd be room in the next issue for a couple pictures. Let me put in a word on your behalf... ;)

Paul,

You got it. How long of an article do you have room for?

[Timchick]

Todd,

Interesting that you would bring that up. Larry has told me that he will sell the basic ultralight kit (less an engine and propeller) for $9,995.00 You could then buy the rest from Larry when you are ready or choose to put something else on it and finish it out any way you want. How's that for breaking it up a little?

$9,995.00 is still a big chunk of change for someone trying to save up just to get started. If he split that into 2 parts I think it would be a lot easier for someone to get started. Someone could purchase the first part of the rolling airframe and start saving for the next part while they are building the first.

[GyroDoug]

$9,995.00 is still a big chunk of change for someone trying to save up just to get started. If he split that into 2 parts I think it would be a lot easier for someone to get started. Someone could purchase the first part of the rolling airframe and start saving for the next part while they are building the first.

Tim,

I agree with you. And to be honest it would even be better if he could take monthly payments and finance kits. However, we are taking this one step at a time and doing all we can to make this the best opportunity we possibly can. And for now $10,000.00 is what it is going to take to get started. The time may come when it will only take a small commitment, to get started in flying a Gyroplane, but that day isn't here yet.

I want to see our sport grow and I want to see thousands of new people learn about the joys that flying a Gyroplane can bring. But flying has never been an inexpensive hobby and never will be. However, when you can get into the air in a new modern designed aircraft, for about the same cost as an entry level car or what you would pay to buy a Harley Davidson Motorcycle, then it has stopped being the hobby of only the wealthy. This is only my opinion but I strongly believe that anyone that really wants to fly a gyroplane can come up with $10,000.00 to get started. It may take getting a loan or selling something else to come up with the cash but hundreds of thousands of people here in the US (alone) spend that kind of money every year on discretionary expenditures. This is no longer about whether or not people can afford it. Rather, it is about how bad they want it.

People that hang on to the fact that 30 years ago you could build a Bensen for just a few thousand dollars and we should still be able to do that today are simply living in a fantasy world. Today, in order to get a new and reliable aircraft engine it will cost you $5,000 to $30,000 just for the engine, depending on how much engine you require. For people that want to stay at the lower end and are willing to live without all the bells and whistles and are willing to stay with the lighter and lower powered models you can now buy a Gyroplane, with modern features and conveniences and enough horsepower to provide good performance (for all but the heavier pilots) for about $15,000.00. If your waiting around for something better than that, you'd better be prepared for opportunity to simply pass you by.

At least that's my story (and I'm stickin to it).

[GyroDoug]

Doug:
Will Larry offer the fuel injected MZ202?


Larry,

I did get an answer on the question of the MZ 202 fuel injected engine. This engine will not be available on the Super Ultralight model because by the time you add the fuel injection and heavier fuel pump and battery, it will take the model beyond legal ultralight weight. So if you want to use that engine on a Butterfly, you will have to move up to the Emperor Model and you will have to build 51% and register it as a EAB (Experimental Ameteur Built) aircraft.

Sorry!

[Wiplash]

Todd,

Interesting that you would bring that up. Larry has told me that he will sell the basic ultralight kit (less an engine and propeller) for $9,995.00 You could then buy the rest from Larry when you are ready or choose to put something else on it and finish it out any way you want. How's that for breaking it up a little?

Every little bit will help for sure. What I had in mind was $5000 blocks. Basic airframe 5k. Rotor, tail and instrument pod (if there is one) 5k, then 5k for engine package. Or something along that line.

It's true cars, Harleys, Cessnas and other titled toys can be financed easily but that's cuz they have titles that can be used as collateral. I'm not convinced the economy is out of the woods yet so cash is King...

Nonetheless, this is a welcomed development and I'm looking forward to seeing this bird. :rapture:

Will there be any airframes ready for Mentone?


:Cheers:

[GyroDoug]

Will there be any airframes ready for Mentone?
:Cheers:

Todd,

Larry Neal has a prior commitment to act as the test pilot for Carter Aviation and they are doing flight testing on their new 4 place machine around that same time so he is not sure if he will be available to be at Oshkosh or Mentone. However he has offered to send his new Ultralight machine up for display at both events if we can find someone that is going from Texas to Oshkosh and from Mentone back to Texas. I have started another thread asking if anyone will be going that direction that would be willing to tow a light trailer and Gyro behind them. If we are able to arrange some transportation for it, it will be there. He may be joining us there and may not depending on how things go with the flight testing. We're doing everything we can to get it there for everyone to be able to check out.

[Resasi]

Todd your break down would seem a very logical one for an ultralight of this type.

Airframe.
Rotor, Head, instruments, wheels, tank.
Engine

[GyroDoug]

What I had in mind was $5000 blocks. Basic airframe 5k. Rotor, tail and instrument pod (if there is one) 5k, then 5k for engine package. Or something along that line.
:Cheers:

OK You've got it!!!!

Larry never ceases to amaze me at how flexible he can be some times. After sharing your thoughts and ideas with him on the Sub-Kits, he agreed to a trial period to see if that really will make a difference. So anyone that needs to start off with a smaller investment can now buy their first Sub Kit of the Basic Airframe and start building their very own Butterfly Ultralight Gyroplane for only $5,000.00.

Now is the time to decide how serious you really are about getting started in this sport. It just won't ever get any cheaper than this to start down that path towards owning a Butterfly Gyroplane. This option may not be available down the road, but it is right now. Response to this offer will determine whether or not this is an option that will be available long term. But if you have been waiting for the right opportunity to come buy, this may be it. Let me know if you have any questions. (and may the force be with you!)

[Timchick]

Now that's what I'm talking about. I think he'll get more people purchasing kits that way. Way to go, Larry!

[helipaddy]

Any photos????

[Scagmo]

Found this on their web site. Looks like it is still under construction.

http://www.thebutterflyllc.com/ultralight/ultralight.htm

with photo at

http://www.thebutterflyllc.com/ultralight/Ultralight_OrderForm_070510.pdf

Harold

[BEN S]

is a part 103 no-no although you could drill a drain hole at the 5 gallon mark.
I was just looking at the specs listed on the website, and perhaps those arent for this machine.
Ben S

[GaryMac]

The specs page for the ultralight is the same as the Emporer Butterfly, so I suspect it has not been updated yet.

The price list .pdf for the ultralight appears to be accurate, and has a decent picture of the machine.

[PW_Plack]

The website also says it weighs 280 pounds...?

[Scagmo]

Like I said, the site appears to be under construction.

All in all this is great news to a wannabe like myself.

Financing a gyro is of great concern to someone like myself and gives some options that haven't been marketed before. It is very daunting to a newbie like myself when exploring a gyro manufactures web site to see that $14,000 + at one time is required to be able to buy the parts to build a gyro.

With the options at Butterfly (and Aviomania) to buy parts in packages fully explained on their web sites is a huge marketing win/win for both the potential builder/owner pilot and gyro manufacturer. Having the option to purchase several $5,000 packages over time is a lot less intimidating.

Now if other manufactures (RFD, Starbee, and Air Command come to mind) would package their parts in a similar manor, there could be some huge increases in sales for their companies and a huge increase in new gyro owners.

Just my $.02 worth

Harold

[Friendly]

Like I said, the site appears to be under construction.

All in all this is great news to a wannabe like myself.

Financing a gyro is of great concern to someone like myself and gives some options that haven't been marketed before. It is very daunting to a newbie like myself when exploring a gyro manufactures web site to see that $14,000 + at one time is required to be able to buy the parts to build a gyro.

With the options at Butterfly (and Aviomania) to buy parts in packages fully explained on their web sites is a huge marketing win/win for both the potential builder/owner pilot and gyro manufacturer. Having the option to purchase several $5,000 packages over time is a lot less intimidating.

Now if other manufactures (RFD, Starbee, and Air Command come to mind) would package their parts in a similar manor, there could be some huge increases in sales for their companies and a huge increase in new gyro owners.

Just my $.02 worth

Harold

Harold,
I am not a gyrobee fan, but if you visit their web site they offer a rolling frame for less than the Butterfly. In fact they list a component list of all the parts to the Bee with an individual price. So why is 5k such a big deal:noidea: I am not being a smart a$$, I just fail to see why selling the gyro is stages of 5 K is going to make that much difference when there are already cheaper options. That being said , I am glad that there are alternatives to the bee.

[GyroDoug]

Any photos????

Here's a picture! Better ones will be available soon. The website is being updated and will have correct information soon/

[jany77]

im wondering what kind of rotorblades is the ul version useing

[Wiplash]

Wow!

Ok now, this is getting serious...

Impressive response time and offer. Larry really seems like a Git-r-Done kind of guy. Shows his commitment to his product and the advancement of the sport. Listens to his customer base and potential customers. Can't see a reason not to support such a person and company.

Larry has called my bluff now it's time to put my money where my mouth is...
Anyone need a kidney??? Time to raid the piggy bank and start digging for loose change in the couch and under my car seats...

I sure hope there is enough interest to keep this deal going. Advertising the sub-kits on the web-site and getting an airframe to Oshkosh and to Mentone would seem to be a good testing ground for "The New Deal".

:cheers:

Jany77,
The rotor will be Dragon Wings with a new electric pre-rotator.

[jany77]

on the picture it doesnot look like dragon wings ,dragon wings use different hub bar thats why i ask

[Resasi]

Don't think they are DW's but the UL it would seem is having them.

Doug that was pretty good of Larry to break the payments down like that, and so quickly in response to suggestions from the Forum.

I think that is a pretty good move and allows a builder to have a starter that will keep him going while he saves for the next section.

It's a pretty little gyro and with a 503 should be a good performer at that weight.

[scottessex]

That looks like the standard "butterfly" is it?

I have always liked the basic butterfly best, when you strip all the metro launch, G-force, and all the options you end up with a nice simple lightweight gyro. :D
simple fun and "cheaper"
Very nice price too I might add.

[Wiplash]

Announcing New Ultralight Options !!! ...
These are both going to include many options that once were considered very difficult to include and stay within legal ultralight weight but Larry has managed to design an ultralight machine that will use High Performance Dragon Wing Rototblades.

The difference in hub bars may be part of the "High Performance".

Once I complete my current project, http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=371689#post371689 there will be an Ultralight Butterfly in my garage...

[GyroDoug]

That looks like the standard "butterfly" is it?
I have always liked the basic butterfly best, when you strip all the metro launch, G-force, and all the options you end up with a nice simple lightweight gyro. :D simple fun and "cheaper" Very nice price too I might add.

Scott,

You are right in a way. The Butterfly Ultralight is simply a very basic Butterfly Gyroplane and is only a few modifications away from one of Larry's earlier models. While it shares many parts with his basic entry level "Emperor" model, they are not the same machine as it had to shed some pounds to make ultralight weight. However, all of Larry's designs are made to be upgradeable so it could be changed into a bigger and heavier model. I believe that is what Greg did with his. It started out as a very basic machine but as time has marched on Greg has decided to upgrade it and and more power and more features to get what he has today.

That is one of the big advantages of Larry's designs. Gotta love that guy!

[Greg Mitchell]

Larry did the ultralight first.........When I first built the 'baby' Butterfly, some 5 or 6 years ago, it was less then 254 lbs.

Came with Aircommand Tail and Bensen Blades, had a 5 gallon AC seat tank and NO pre-rotator, had a 503 rotax and was 58 inch wheel base with disc brakes.

It was the Ducks Nuts!

I changed out the 21' 9" Bensen Blades at 42 lbs for a set of 23 1/2' Patroney Composite Blades at 76 lbs and it flew great with excellent blades.

I had issues with hand spinning after two spinal surgeries and decided a pre-spinner was the go. Tested a 503 MLS pre-rotator which was impressive and as I got heavier decided to step up to a 582 engine.

I flew the Monarch 582 with MLS belt drive pre-rotator and then changed the 5 gallon tank out for a 10 gallon tank.

Next was the addition of the G Force Landing Gear.

Whilst the Patroney Blades are extremely 'sporty' and allow for major cranking and banking, the rrpm was getting up there with the AUW and smaller disc size. Adding weight I looked around for a bigger set of blades with less weight than I was running up top and now have a 25' disc tip weighted alloy blades, GFLG and MLS. It is a great gyro.

Larrys gyros are easily upgraded and morphed into the next version.

The Butterfly's whether it be an ultralight, Emperor or Monarch with all the frills, fly remarkably the same. They are very stable and an absolute joy to fly.
Easy to build and I believe Larry has always been ready to negotiate sub packages and payments with prospective clients.

Butterfly products may be slightly more expensive than some other gyro kits ie: Gyrobee, yet cost less than SportCopter kits.

Personally, I believe the geometry and design features built into Butterfly gyroplanes provide the best quality, most stable and most efficient kit gyroplanes available anywhere in the world at the present.

There is not doubt in my mind, if you are able to 'pat' up your own blades, then a basic no frills UL gyro or Emperor Butterfly is the way to go.

Cheers,

Mitch.

[GyroDoug]

If you go to the Butterfly Website, "thebutterflyllc.com" you will notice that Larry has changed the pricing structure and made it an option to buy any of his different models without the engine. In affect, lowering the cost it will take to get started with any of his models.

While he still isn't condoning using engines other than what the machines were designed to use, it will make it possible for the person who really wants to use an alternative engine to do that. Larry has always been very conservative when it comes to engine selection. Even though there are some promising alternative options out there he has always felt it was best to stay with engines that were designed for aircraft and that had a proven track record for reliability rather than trusting an engine that looks promising but has yet to prove it's self.

Because of that he will not be making different engine mounts for people who want to fly a Butterfly machine but want to use a different engine that what he designed it for. However, for the person willing to be responsible for the design changes and willing to fabricate any new parts that would be needed because of the change, that now will become an option. Larry's goal was not to open the doors to modified Butterfly machines but rather to cut the amount of money required to get started in the process of building your dream machine. He is also testing a "sub-kit" option on his new Butterfly Ultralight and if that is used enough to show him that, it will really make a difference, that option may become available on other kits as well.

For anyone wanting to buy an Ultimate Single Seat Gyroplane, the Aurora is pretty hard to beat. However when you look at the cost of $40,000, many people just keep looking because that is simply more money than they can come up with. But now you can buy an Aurora with everything but the engine and propeller for only $21,000, get it built and while you are building it you can look at other engine options or save up money until you can afford to buy the ultimate engine for that machine (Rotax 912). By the way, I just saw that prices are starting to come down on Rotax engines. That is past due, but very welcome. Life just gets better and better.

[Greg Mitchell]

Check this out, pics of the the new pre-rotator for the UL version of the Butterfly.

As I previously stated my original 58" wheel base Butterfly was an Ultralight. This is evidenced by Larry's (Valorie's) press release.

6.5 lbs not counting the main flywheel.

Mitch.

[Greg Mitchell]

Here is the latest Press Release.

Fly Safe and Enjoy!

Mitch.

PS.

I've been accussed of being hughley biased about Larry and what he 'does'.

Larry is an endless cup of energy, who constantly amazes me.

Larry is one of the finest human beings I've had the pleasure to spend time with. He is a good friend, a wise and patient teacher and he sure does seem to know his way around this gyroplane stuff.

He's back test flying CatCopter stuff for Jay Carter Jr, so has time on the stick in Butterfly UL's and the top end hardware.

A self taught, hungry, thirsty for knowledge bloke who lives his dream. Man does he dream big!

Yep biased....what do you fellas say....My Bad.?

Kerry Cartier once referred to Larry Neal as The Grand Poo Bah.....That's Him!

[Resasi]

Mitch, thank you for posting pics of Larry's new prerotator.

It would seem he has incorporated a number of innovations from the goped type drives and latest electric motors, then put them together in a really elegant, neat, compact and light package.

He has always produced a quality product and this one is no exception.

As you so rightly say, he has a product that can be morphed in a variety of ways to produce an individual, safe good performing machine to suit what the buyer wants and what exactly is best for him.

[All_In]

Thanks for posing the pictures and press release.
It says it used 36 volts.
What is the battery pack look like and weigh? Is it just 3 12 volts motorcycle batteries?

[Aviomania]

John Lithium batteries can provide 36V and have enough juice for 5-8 prerotations and they can weigh ~ 2-3 lbs.

so.... with ring Gear, wires, batteries and hardware you are looking for ~12 + lbs

[Resasi]

As with all problems there are a number of solutions.

Each solution will be a compromise. It is up to the individual that buys to select which compromises he/she wishes to make, from what is available to him or her, at the best cost and weight, at the time.

Progress, is when the producer moves constantly on, improving and striving to produce the best possible, with what is both cost effective, and commercially effective at the time.

In our system, the buyer providing the producer with the incentive to come up with the goods.

And if that is a shameless plug for capitalism, free market, and why the gyro is flourishing where it is, so be it.

[All_In]

@Nicolas
Thanks!!!

@Leigh
Yaw Mon!!! I love capitalism!

[GyroDoug]

Here's the official News Release on the new Ultralight Models:

NEWS RELEASE
For more information:
Valorie White,
Executive Vice President
The Butterfly Aircraft LLC
615-812-3161
valorie@thebutterflyllc.com

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
July 15, 2010
IT’S FOR REAL: Legal Ultralight Butterfly Gyroplane hits the market.
A true Ultralight gyroplane with a pre rotator is now available ready to fly from The Butterfly Aircraft LLC of Aurora, Texas. “This flying machine doesn’t require a pilots license or registration of any kind”, says Valorie White, executive vice president of TBALLC.
“The new Butterfly Ultralight weighs less than 254 lbs., has a 5 gallon fuel tank, and flies 62 mph making it a true ultralight. You can order it completely built or you can build it yourself from a kit. It also fits in the back of a standard sized pickup truck”, said White.
Until now the extra weight of a pre rotator has made most gyroplanes unable to fit into the Ultralight FAA Part 103 category. A pre rotator mechanically spins the rotor blades and shortens the ground run for liftoff. This new Butterfly design has a high tech light weight pre rotator that uses a modern 36 volt model airplane motor with 2.7 hp that only weighs 2.2 lbs.
This new Butterfly Ultralight comes with three engine options: A Rotax 503, a MZ 201, or a MZ 202 engine. This model is recommended for pilots weighing up to 200 lbs. The MZ 202 model can fly a pilot weight of 225 lbs.
“This new Butterfly UL model is actually a remake of our first Butterfly that was introduced at Airventure in 2003. With a few modifications and the new electric motor technology for the pre rotator we are now able to easily make the 254 lb. weight requirement to be a legal Ultralight”, said White.
With the downturn of true ultralight aircraft available many fixed wing UL pilots are considering becoming swing wing pilots with their new UL Butterfly. The fact that you can also fly in high winds up to 50 mph is also attractive to most pilots.
A lot of gyroplane pilots are excited at the availability of an affordable, storable, and transportable ultralight gyroplane without the need for a license or registration.
“The Ultralight Butterfly also has the new centerline thrust technology and a horizontal stabilizer centered in the prop blast that has proven to be a stable and safe flyer”, said White.

Valorie said more information about the Ultralight Butterfly is on the website at: www.thebutterflyllc.com
--END—

[Resasi]

Big congratulations to Larry with best wishes for the commercial success of this machine.:first:

[GaryMac]

New pics of the UL are now on the Butterfly website. Looking good.

Doug.... a couple of quick questions.

1. No shocks in the pictures? I'm assuming there would be on the finished product, otherwise there would be no need for the triangulated main gear....

2. Earlier in this thread, it was mentioned that the pre-rotator would be capable of 225 RRPM. I know that's not up to MLS standards, but on an ultralight, should make for a short ground roll on takeoff.... Has Larry mentioned anything about takeoff performance on a 503 powered ship?

Thanks, GaryMac

[GyroDoug]

New pics of the UL are now on the Butterfly website. Looking good.

Doug.... a couple of quick questions.

1. No shocks in the pictures? I'm assuming there would be on the finished product, otherwise there would be no need for the triangulated main gear....

2. Earlier in this thread, it was mentioned that the pre-rotator would be capable of 225 RRPM. I know that's not up to MLS standards, but on an ultralight, should make for a short ground roll on takeoff.... Has Larry mentioned anything about takeoff performance on a 503 powered ship?

Thanks, GaryMac

GaryMac,

The Ultralight models do not use shocks. They are a definite weight buster and you just can't get a Butterfly suspension system on them and stay within legal ultralight weight limits. However, these machines are designed so that could be added later if a person wants to move up to an experimental machine. So they are upgradeable but you won't be a legal ultralight anymore.

Of course takeoff performance will vary depending on gross weight, density altitude and head winds, but because you are almost up to full flight speed before you even start rolling, a typical takeoff run could be accomplished in 100 to 200 ft.

[Passin' Thru]

Does anyone know where he gets his wheels?? :spy:

Inquiring minds want to know ... :noidea:
.

[helipaddy]

Looks like the wheels could be these:

http://www.ulparts.com/detail.aspx?ID=28

Or these:

http://www.rotaxparts.net/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=486

[gilgsn]

Posted:

http://planenews.com/archives/14500

Too bad I didn't get that yesterday morning, my site got 12,000 visitors from making Slashdot.org front page yesterday!

Gil.

[scottessex]

I just found that too, you beat me to it. :)

Looks like bensen or rotorhawk blades???????

[GyroDoug]

Looks like bensen or rotorhawk blades???????



The Butterfly Ultralight is using Dragon Wing Rotors. They are lighter and higher performance and for a gyro that has to stay as light as possible they are the obvious choice. However with their built in reflex, they are just too hard to start by hand to be practical. So until a really light weight pre-rotator system became available, they weren't usable for an ultralight. now with these new high tech, small and light electric motors available, their time has come.

[scottessex]

That must be an old picture, That is not a dragon wing hub bar.

[edypaul]

You can fly it in winds up to 50 MPH? Your Kidding Right?

[Timchick]

I think the photos on the web site are of the older entry level Butterfly. They probably threw them on there to get something to show. The photo in the press release also showed a stepped rear keel and a front brake. The photos on the web site show a straight keel and hydraulic disc brakes on the mains.

[BEN S]

Fly yes....land safely? Well maybe not so much:rolleyes:
Ben S

[Kevin_Richey]

Hasn't Scott Hegar flown in 40+ mph winds? He has written about it on the forum...

Dan Haseloh supposedly flew in those type of gales, but isn't around to talk about it after that filming accident...

[GyroDoug]

That must be an old picture, That is not a dragon wing hub bar.

Scott,

You are right. (sharp eye!!!) The photo with the orange Butterfly and the word Ultralight on the tail is the actual Butterfly Ultralight Prototype. However in that picture it does not have the new electric Pre-rotator or the Dragon Wing Rotors installed yet. I should have pictures I can post with the electric pre-rotator and the Dragon Wing Rotors in the next couple days.

[GyroDoug]

This is a True picture of the new Butterfly Ultralight Gyroplane. However in this picture it does not have the new electric pre-rotator or the Dragon Wing Rotors mounted on it. I will have a picture showing all of that in the next few days.

[GyroDoug]

You can fly it in winds up to 50 MPH? Your Kidding Right?

Edypaul,

I don't think there is any major problem flying a Gyroplane in 50 mph winds if the winds are relatively steady. Now 50 mph winds gusting and changing directions would be a lot touchier and should probably be avoided. But the biggest challenge flying in a 50 mph steady wind would be encountered if you were trying to go somewhere up wind. Landing would be a little challenging, but completely doable. Just forget about landing the direction of the runway and land straight into the wind even if that means across the runway. While flying in windy conditions isn't wise for an inexperienced pilot, people that are used to flying in wind will tell you that is some of the funnest flying they ever get to do. It will allow vertical takeoffs (like a helicopter) and hovering in one place (relative to the ground). Larry Neal flys all the time in high wind conditions just to show people it can be done safely in the right aircraft. I don't think we should be afraid of flying in windy conditions, we just need to build up to it and be proficient in dealing with the winds we are flying in.

[bones]

Edypaul,

I don't think there is any major problem flying a Gyroplane in 50 mph winds if the winds are relatively steady. Now 50 mph winds gusting and changing directions would be a lot touchier and should probably be avoided. But the biggest challenge flying in a 50 mph steady wind would be encountered if you were trying to go somewhere up wind. Landing would be a little challenging, but completely doable. Just forget about landing the direction of the runway and land straight into the wind even if that means across the runway. While flying in windy conditions isn't wise for an inexperienced pilot, people that are used to flying in wind will tell you that is some of the funnest flying they ever get to do. It will allow vertical takeoffs (like a helicopter) and hovering in one place (relative to the ground). Larry Neal flys all the time in high wind conditions just to show people it can be done safely in the right aircraft. I don't think we should be afraid of flying in windy conditions, we just need to build up to it and be proficient in dealing with the winds we are flying in.

Absolutely correct Doug, obviously i have experience in a butterfly, but a few years ago we were having fun doing vertical takeoffs apply more power go forward and then backing up and landing and take off again, all completely in control.

[Jazzenjohn]

I wouldn't worry so much about landing in a 50 MPH wind, but the part from touchdown to getting the rotors stopped would be what I'd worry about... How would you do it Bones? Which direction would you face? Would you preferably try to taxi it behind a building or tree? Do you have a rotor brake?

[Heron]

I hope you guys push this forward and help bump up sales for Larry. It would by ironic but good.
I have flown the Golden in pretty hard winds, we saw 50 mph and that was when Brad took over and got us down.
Man, the other end of the runway was coming up fast!
Next day I felt funny at the stick, no winds and a sense of bobbing around, strong winds can "cast" the flight making it very steady.
Heron

[edypaul]

I'm not trying to be a Party Popper but The only place I have ever seen steady 50 MPH winds without a storm was on the front range in Denver Co and here in Florida during a Tropical Storm. I doubt that very many if any Gyro pilots have flown in true 50 MPH Winds. If I saw it on a manometer and was there I would believe it. Greg Was flying my Dom last summer when the winds came up before he landed. They were probably blowing 25 to 35 when he landed. He couldn't get the rotors to stop. I,m just saying!

[Friendly]

Heres one flying in 35 knots
YouTube - High Wind Flying in a Gyro. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7VIqL0fUFQ&feature=related)

[GyroDoug]

I told Larry about some of the comments that have been made on this subject and recapped what I had said and asked his opinion and if he agreed with what I had said. This was his reply:

"Yes, our Butterfly models have up to 6 more degrees of forward stick than other designs.

In the Ultralight you turn the gyro into the wind and push the stick forward. This introduces a flow of air on top of the rotors and they stop pretty fast.

On the other models with the rotor brake the brake engages after the rotors are level and also have about 3 degrees of down slant on the rotors. We always turn the gyro into the wind to stop them if it is blowing 40 to 50 mph which is common in Texas. This takes the wind out of them and the rotor brake stops them reasonably fast."

Thanks,

Larry

[Resasi]

Doug we left in a few degrees of forward disc tilt on our Hornet for just that reason. Still working on the rotor brake. Have the parts and a bicycle disc brake pad just have to make one up.

[Heron]

If the brakes are worned out or loose we turned our back to the wind to help stop the rotors.
Take off wind mark was at 35 and up there much stronger. No way to tell if that 50 was spot on or close.
Heron

[GyroDoug]

For those that don't know Larry personally, you will search far and wide to find a man with more integrity. If he says he has often flown his Gyros in winds blowing between 40 mph and 50 mph, I believe you can take that to the bank.

Everyone has to decide for them self what they want to believe and who they are going to listen to. I just want to go on record and say, I believe you can judge a tree by it's fruits, and when it comes to choosing who to listen to about all things Gyro, there are a several people out there that because of what they have done, I take very seriously and Larry would be one of them.

[Heron]

There are a few great experts in gyro field and more students that passed the grade every year.
Thanks to all of them for teaching us so generously.
Heron

[Greg Mitchell]

This Is It!

Congrats Larry, she is a sweet looking gyro, l expect it will be a big 'hit' world wide.

When my early Butterfly had the narrow wheel base, this is a little narrower again, it was so light and easily loaded into the back of a Ute.

There are some subtle changes to this gyro from the UL Butterfly I had originally.

I reckon the weight of the MC shocks account for the new pre-rotator and some. It is so clean and tidy. She's a 'tad' shorter than the original, slighlty more compact.

The Dragon Wings look great dont they!

And that pre-rotator. Excellent!

I love it!

Larry's Butterfly's are competitively priced and rate up their as one of the premier kit gyroplanes. There are dozens of Butterfly gyroplanes flying all around the world now, fast developing a very good history of Safe Operations.

Easy to build kit with the ability purchase sub components and build as you can afford it....now is the time, sieze the day!

Contact one of the US Butterfly Dealers NOW or email me for a chat just to talk about how I find my Butterfly conversions and my Up Graded Monarch.

That's one cool looking gyro Larry, Well Done Mate!

Fly Safe.

Mitch

rocksfly@gmail.com

[Greg Mitchell]

I was so keen to share these pics with you I missed the following email from Larry. This is how he has responded to some question I put to him.


"Hello Mitch,

We now have 7 models for sale....

The UL Butterfly is basically the same ship that you first had. It is the
one your instructor said was the best gyro he had ever flown.

All I did was remove the hydraulic brakes (added a front wheel nose scrub
brake) and spring shocks to remove enough weight to add the light weight
pre rotator. It is a legal ultralight weighing less than 254 lbs with the
pre rotator.

I also did a 4" jog in the rear keel to give a full 10 degrees pivot for
takeoff.

She is a sweet nimble flyer as you already know.

How are your new blades working out?

Cheers,

Larry"

So there it is Gents.

Seven new models and Now this gorgeous little number.

In my country training is mandatory, I would expect any sane person to seek out same.

Fly Safe.

Mitch.

[GyroDoug]

Mitch,

Thanks for posting the final pictures. I just saw the e-mail from Larry and was about to get them posted and saw that you had already gotten it done. That is one fine looking little Gyro. We have already had a very good response to this model and we believe we are literally going to sell thousands of these. This is that entry level machine that will make it easier for new interested people to get started in this sport. It doesn't require any FAA involvement, it doesn't require a pilots license (however it does still require some training) and you don't even have to build it yourself if you don't want to. (although it is pretty easy and definitely a quick build kit)

We are also working on a program to make training more accessible so that people will feel like getting started in flying Gyros is something they can do. This is really starting to get exciting and I am thrilled to be playing a minor part in it. Larry is really the genius behind this program and he never ceases to amaze me with his insights and knowledge. We are extremely fortunate to have someone like him working to bring Gyroplanes to the masses. What an exciting time to be involved.

[Greg Mitchell]

G'Day Doug,

The UL Butterfly is a beauty!

My instructor 6 years ago test flew my little Butterfly and said it was the best fun and most stable gyro he had ever flown. He also said I'd have no trouble going solo due to it's stability and lack of bad habits, ie pitching about unpredictably (PIO).

I got in it after 16 HRS of RAF2000 training and could not believe how easy it was to 'pat' up the 21' 9" Bensen Blades and go flying. To this day I believe it to be some of the most fun flying I have done as PIC of a gyroplane.

Now that the UL has those highly efficient DW's with a pre-rotator, I'd love to have some time in another one. Not that I'll be going back from my Monarch.

I hope this newer model helps a bunch of folk get started in gyros.

Training is imperative.

Fly Safe and have fun.

Cheers,

Mitch

[Resasi]

Mitch it's called, 'doing a Bensen'.

[scottessex]

Is that a scrub brake?

[Greg Mitchell]

Yes Scott

"Hello Mitch,

We now have 7 models for sale....

The UL Butterfly is basically the same ship that you first had. It is the
one your instructor said was the best gyro he had ever flown.

All I did was remove the hydraulic brakes (added a front wheel nose scrub
brake) and spring shocks to remove enough weight to add the light weight
pre rotator. It is a legal ultralight weighing less than 254 lbs with the
pre rotator.

I also did a 4" jog in the rear keel to give a full 10 degrees pivot for
takeoff.

She is a sweet nimble flyer as you already know.

How are your new blades working out?

Cheers,

Larry"

[Greg Mitchell]

Leigh...Doing a Bensen?

Sorry Mate, I'm a bit slow on the uptake.

Cheers,

Mitch.

[Resasi]

Bringing a simple, safe, affordable, gyro to the masses.

[jany77]

i dont know if 14995$ its affordable to masses ,it sure looks good

[bones]

i dont know if 14995$ its affordable to masses ,it sure looks good

You got to be kidding me right, remember this is some thing that is going to take YOU OFF THE GROUND, just how cheap of a machine would like to go flying in, taking into consideration this is a BRAND NEW machine.

[GyroDoug]

I realize I am going to turn some people off with this post because I know there are people out there that feel they should be able to buy an aircraft and fulfill their dream of flight by buying an aircraft that costs less than a used motorcycle. I understand that thinking and the wish to be able to fly without it costing very much. When you are just barely making enough money to keep ahead of your bills and the thought of having to save up $15,000 in order to pursue your dream, fills your heart with dread because you just can't ever see it happening, it feels hopeless and you just don't want to accept that, so you convince yourself that it won't really cost that much to fly.

While that may make you feel better about your hope for a chance someday to reach your goal, I believe it can be a very dangerous attitude to have, and that it can lead you to make decisions that could be detrimental to you and to your family. Instead of that mentality, I recommend you consider the following attitude:

It is realistically going to take about $10,000 as a minimum to purchase an aircraft (old and used) get it into flight worthy status (more or less) and to get the flight training you need to learn to safely fly that aircraft. Gyro CFIs are few and far between and will usually entail long miles traveled and major time taken off from work (or whatever else you do with your life) in order to get with them and get trained so you can safely fly. That is reality and what it will take (as a minimum) and if you aren't willing to work towards making that happen, you are simply kidding yourself and really shouldn't be pursuing rotorcraft flight at all.

If you want to fly with a more modern design, that will be easier and safer to fly, it will cost more than that. Buying a used model will typically be less expensive than it will be to have a brand new aircraft (just like new cars cost more than used cars do) so if money is really tight you should look at buying a Gyro that is already built and someone is willing to sell it for less than it cost to build. Those kind of deals are plentiful in an economy like todays. But plan on spending between $10,000 and $15,000 for a used single seat and quite a bit more than that if you want a cabin class 2 seater. Add training costs to that price and the cost is now up somewhere between $12,000 to $20,000 and even more than that for bigger, better, cooler.

The next step up is to buy a new machine. These are going to run anywhere from $15,000 to over $100,000 depending on what kind of machine you want. If you are heavier and need more power, that costs more. If you want 2 seats and more carrying capacity, that cost more. If you want a high quality aircraft engine (spell that better reliability and safety) that costs more. (sometimes a lot more). If you want to have the newest, best quality, highest technology or the shiniest paint job, that all costs more. Luckily, you get to choose what features are most important to you and look at your budget and decide what you can afford and what you can't afford and then decide what direction to go.

I would never tell a person they should go into debt in order to purchase an optional item (like a Gyro) but for some people, that may be the only way they will ever be able to purchase one. So they need to decide how bad do they want to fly and what sacrifices they are willing to make to find a way to come up with the funds. Some people take out second mortgages to fund their dreams, others sell something else they own to come up with the money, while others simply wait and save and don't buy until they can afford to pay cash for it. That is the kind of decision only you can make. But be honest with yourself about what the costs are going to be or you will be setting yourself up for failure down the road. Convincing yourself that you can get into flying for less than $15,000 is setting yourself up for failure. Now you may be able to get into a fractional ownership program and reduce your costs some but you still need to be prepared to invest close to $10,000 or it just isn't going to happen.

I don't say this to drive anyone away from the world of Gyroplanes. I would really love to see our sport grow and expand and I believe we are starting to head in that direction. But I don't want to see people get in trouble financially because they had unrealistic expectations and they got something started they can't afford to finish. I don't want to see people making choices about what they are going to fly, based solely on it was all they felt they could afford, when that decision could lead to them leaving a family without a father (or mother). Having realistic expectations about what is to come, is absolutely paramount to having a fulfilling experience as you chase your dream of flight. If you don't believe me, talk to others who are doing what you want to do. Ask them how much they have into their dream. Talk to more than one person to get a good feel for what reality is. I am confidant that if you really understand the costs, you will come to the same conclusion that I have. This is not a cheap sport. It can be accomplished at a reasonable cost and done in a reasonably safe manner, if you are prudent and careful and do your homework and most importantly understand what you are getting into before you charge ahead without a proper understanding. Find a good PRA chapter and find a mentor that can help you. Listen to what they tell you and this can be the greatest experience of your life.

If anyone has questions or would like to talk to me, I am always available and never get tired of talking about gyroplanes. Best of luck with your quest!!!

[Resasi]

Great post Doug.

And Jany, in aviation terms that is cheap for a brand new, quality, safe, tested and proven flying machine. People pay more for snowmobiles, bass boats and motorcycles.

[Heron]

Gyro kit + help building + basic training = 20 G´s all financiable, this should solve the mass problem.
Some motorcycles down here costs over 60 grand, a gyro will cost around 35 g´s real.
Heron

[Greg Mitchell]

Larry is off to Oshkosh.....

He will have the NEW Ultralight Butterfly and a fully dressed Aurora Butterfly on site.

It is Larry's intention to fly from the UL area each and every day.

Mitch.

[GyroDoug]

Mitch,

I wish you were going to be able to join us this year. I believe we are going to try to have a "Butterfly Family gathering" on Fri. or Sat. evening. It will be fun to get to meet lots of the other Butterfly owners and swap stories of adventures in flying. It is really an exciting time to be involved and getting to introduce this new Ultralight opportunity to thousands of aviation dreamers should be a lot of fun and we might just start to change the direction this sport has been headed for the last several years. We'll take lots of pictures and post them and make everyone that didn't come, wish that they had been there.

I'm starting to feel like a kid at Christmas time!!!!

[Heron]

I know that feeling very well . . .
Have fun!
Heron

[Wiplash]

Larry is off to Oshkosh.....

He will have the NEW Ultralight Butterfly and a fully dressed Aurora Butterfly on site.

It is Larry's intention to fly from the UL area each and every day.

Mitch.

Great News!

Looking forward to seeing them. Errm, just noticed you didn't mention Mentone. Will they make the trip down there too?

[scobeyr]

Great News!

Looking forward to seeing them. Errm, just noticed you didn't mention Mentone. Will they make the trip down there too?

Todd,

Larry told me that he would be in Mentone.

Rick

[Greg Mitchell]

G'Day Doug,

Of course I wish to be there, with you blokes, enjoying the show and the company of friends. Not to be this year.
My youngest son is about to turn 10 and the wife keeps saying we need to get him on a plane before he turns 12 and is a full fare.
Larry knows we are headed your way for 2012.
I've been there once before with Aussie friends and spent a good deal of time with Larry and some other dude.... Oh yeah Heron.:peace:

To all who are going to Mentone and Oshkosh, drive and fly safe and Have a great time.

Mitch

[GyroDoug]

Great News!
Looking forward to seeing them. Errm, just noticed you didn't mention Mentone. Will they make the trip down there too?

I am not sure about Larry having any of his personal machines at Mentone. He offered to let us keep the new Ultralight and haul it down to Mentone for the PRA convention if we could find a volunteer that was willing to haul it from Mentone back to Texas, but to my knowledge there were no takers and I don't think Larry was going to be able to work Mentone into his schedule. If something has changed I will let you know. But I wouldn't count on getting to see it unless you make it up to Oshkosh (or down to Texas).

[GyroDoug]

I just talked to Larry. He was in Ohio and headed North. He should be to Oshkosh by tonight. I can't wait until Weds. when I get to take off for parts East. This is going to be an exciting couple of weeks.

[scobeyr]

I just talked to Larry. He was in Ohio and headed North. He should be to Oshkosh by tonight. I can't wait until Weds. when I get to take off for parts East. This is going to be an exciting couple of weeks.

Doug,

Did he indicate if he would be in Mentone with the Ultralight Butterfly?

Thanks,
Rick

[GyroDoug]

Rick,

The problem Larry has, is he has already committed to Jay Carter to be the test pilot for his new PAV. Jay has already given him dates that Larry committed to reserve for testing Jays new machine. The challenge with that, is things don't always go according to schedule and sometimes dates are pushed back, however he typically won't know for sure until it gets closer. So at this point he hasn't been able to plan on going. In fact he wasn't going to be able to be to Oshkosh until Thurs. but dates got changed and his schedule cleared so that now he can be at Oshkosh the whole week.

While it is always possible that he could make it to Mentone, he simply doesn't know yet and can't commit to being there so he isn't planning on being there. Larry has a love for Gyroplanes and like any die hard gyro enthusiast, he would love to be at Mentone, but life doesn't always work out the way we would prefer. He is an incredibly busy man with many irons in the fire at any given time. We are very fortunate to have men like him involved in our sport.

[scobeyr]

Doug,

Great. Thanks!
I'm curious. What is a PAV?

Rick

[Heron]

Personal Air Vehicle
www.cartercopters.com
Heron

[helipaddy]

Still can't see where the Battery pack is at?

Is it using LiPo's?

[Heli]

This ultralight might be just what I am looking for, with my weight (148 lbs) and storage issues.

I have a few questions:
1) how many R-RPM can this electric pre-rotator achieve ?
2) It seems that the electric motor is 36 volts..? do we know what type of battery can be used ?

Ideally I would have a large battery sitting on the grass strip to prerotate, then have the cables disconnect when rolling. If always the same runway is used, no need to haul the battery in the air.

3) Are those 23' DW blades ?

[GyroDoug]

Rob,

Sorry it has taken me a while to see your post and reply. I took a couple weeks off and went to Oshkosh and then to the PRA National Convention in Mentone. It was a great couple of weeks but everything here at home piled up while I was gone and I am still trying to get caught up on everything else.

Anyway, to answer your questions:

Larry has tested the new Electric Pre-rotator up to 207 RRPMs so far.

The battery mounts on the top of the seat crossover tube behind the seat.

The battery is a 9S Li-Po. It is a very light, powerful and expensive battery.

Yes, the ultralight uses 23 ft. Dragon Wing rotors.

In my opinion, for a light weight pilot like yourself, flying from a low altitude airstrip, the Butterfly Ultralight could be the ultimate machine. The power to weight ratio is still very good, the machine is light and very nimble, yet stable and easy to fly. And the cost is about as low as anyone would ever dream of for a new high tech, top of the line Gyroplane. Please let me know if you have any other questions about any of the Butterfly Line of Gyros. Best of luck!!!!

[Heli]

Hi Doug, thanks for the reply.

9 cells, so is this a 33.3v Battery then ? Li-PO sounds very interesting.

How close is 200 rrpm to flight rrpm if the total weight is 425lbs (gyro+pilot+some fuel), at sea level ?

[GyroDoug]

Rob,

200 RRPM will get you more than half way there. You will probably be around 350 RRPM when you leave the ground. So it could take you a couple hundred feet to get off the ground in calm air.

Everyone,

Here is a video of the Butterfly Ultralight in flight:

Doug


YouTube - The ULTRALIGHT Butterfly Gyroplane (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_e8BnmF1IfI)

[Penguin]

That ultralight Butterfly looks mighty sweet, Doug and Larry.

[mvadney]

Hey all.

I remember seeing Larry's ads for his gyros usually stating that he won't sell parts for use in non-Butterfly gyros. I can understand that reasoning with his G-Force landing gear. But...I would like to possibly get one of his electric prerotators. Any chance?

[GyroDoug]

Hey all.

I remember seeing Larry's ads for his gyros usually stating that he won't sell parts for use in non-Butterfly gyros. I can understand that reasoning with his G-Force landing gear. But...I would like to possibly get one of his electric prerotators. Any chance?

Mike,

Sorry! If you want to have the technology and superior systems that are on a Butterfly Gyro, you are going to have to buy a Butterfly.

Think about what you are asking. Why would any manufacturer design a superior product and then sell off the systems or parts separately that make it unique and better than the competition, so people don't need to buy his machines? Larry Neal is one of the very few people in our sport that does this full time with the intention to make a living at it. If we want him to still be there doing what he does in the future we have got to support him by buying his products and at a price point that he can make a living with it. If that doesn't happen then it will just be a matter of time until he will be gone and there won't be anyone doing what he is doing for our sport today.

I don't mean to come across as a jerk about this, but I do want people to understand the economics of this industry and if we want it to survive, we have got to support it. We can always go the cheaper route and find a way to steal or copy things without buying them and then the providers will simply go broke and disappear and we will not have any options left.

Food for thought!

[Heron]

Batches of parts are made for the very short shelf life and orders. Stoping this process is costly, making one extra sub kit will make prices soar.
Best thing you do is to create your own, using knowledge available in our Forum.
Frankenstein gyros are not pretty and usually not as good as the real thing.
I remember my first Bensen Days and looking at the Bandit, apple of my eyes then, taking off with tail assembly flutering badly (I did no know what flutter was) and Larry bringging it back down safely.
In minutes, Dave Seace with a Dominator came zig zagging down the taxi and runway and I said: Stop the presses, that is it! After that came the modified Air Command and Butterfly, the Super Flier et caterva.
You will not be able to manufacture one single unit for a better price than the creators can.
That is the way to go!
thanks
Heron

[GyroDoug]

Here's a couple of pictures of the Ultralight Gyro that I took at Oshkosh. They aren't really great pictures because of the location and all the stuff in the background but they do show the completed machine. Orders have been taken and the first kits are being produced. So now would be a great time to get started. I can't wait to get to see one fly (in person).

P.S. Larry Neal won an Award for Innovation (over the Pre-rotator on this ultralight) from the EAA at the 2010 Convention. Pretty Cool stff!!! We really are lucky to have someone like Larry getting our sport some good press.

Doug

[StanFoster]

Doug- I think you will sell a bunch of the ultralight gyros. It looks so well made and with people like Larry and yourself standing behind the product, it looks like a good combination. I hope you do very well with this, because its a good product, and you are so deserving of good stuff happening to you. Man, I would love to come to your fly-in next summer! Stan

[GyroDoug]

Doug- Man, I would love to come to your fly-in next summer! Stan

Stan,

Your wish is my command! I have a spot reserved for you.

If there is anyway we can get you and your new "tornado" to come join us we would be honored. This year we had a half dozen Helicopters but the only Helicycle was the partially completed Ship that Blake brought. We would really love to have yours join us for next year, The dates are June 9th, 10th & 11th. So put them on your calendar and just don't let anything stop you from coming. I'll bet we could even get together donations to help cover your gas to get you out here because everyone would love to see you and your new ride.

So let it be written. So let it be done!

Doug

[scobeyr]

Here's a couple of pictures of the Ultralight Gyro that I took at Oshkosh. They aren't really great pictures because of the location and all the stuff in the background but they do show the completed machine. Orders have been taken and the first kits are being produced. So now would be a great time to get started. I can't wait to get to see one fly (in person).

P.S. Larry Neal won an Award for Innovation (over the Pre-rotator on this ultralight) from the EAA at the 2010 Convention. Pretty Cool stff!!! We really are lucky to have someone like Larry getting our sport some good press.

Doug

That is a fine looking flying machine!

[PW_Plack]

...Man, I would love to come to your fly-in next summer!

Stan, the Helicycles that flew here in 2008, owned by Brian Stevens (a local) and Hap Miller (trailered from CA) flew great in 8,000+' density altitudes. It was great fun watching them play tag across the valley. You let us know what we can do to facilitate your trip, and we'll try!

The partially-built machine here this year was the one owned by Blake Estes, who manages the factory. He says he'll be back in 2011, so you'll have someone to fly with!

[Penguin]

The Ultralight pictures look good, Doug.
Are those Dragon Wing rotors?

[GyroDoug]

The Ultralight pictures look good, Doug.
Are those Dragon Wing rotors?

Larry,

Yes, those are Dragon Wing rotors. And Larry's new ultralight electric pre-rotator.

Doug

[Resasi]

Very neat looking package.

[GyroDoug]

Here is the newest training option that Larry is working to make available for people who need ultralight training. Looks pretty fun to me!

The GYRO GLIDER Ultralight Butterfly Trainer.wmv
YouTube - The GYRO GLIDER Ultralight Butterfly Trainer.wmv (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAwhP8fHX70&feature=email)

The Gyro Glider Ultralight Butterfly Trainer

[WHY]

That glider is the cats meoow

Tony

[WHY]

Now what about a carbon fiber tow bar ??

Tony

[WHY]

Is there any problem in starting out with a tow bar and the go advanced to a cable ???

Tony

[GyroDoug]

Now what about a carbon fiber tow bar ??

Tony

I think carbon fiber anything is way cool. However it is much more expensive than other suitable materials and when the weight is not an important issue (like for a glider) why would you waste the money to build the bar out of carbon fiber?

[GyroDoug]

Is there any problem in starting out with a tow bar and the go advanced to a cable ???

Tony

I am sure that could be done. However, I am not sure that Larry feels there is a big advantage to doing that. If the goal were to simply have fun flying the glider then using a cable would give you more room to maneuver and have fun in. However the goal with this machine is to train people to fly the ultralight machine. Towed with a boom like this is limits how high a person can go and how much trouble they can get into, however it allow the student to learn rotor management, how to operate the pre-rotator, how to take off and maneuver and how to land the machine. It accomplishes the important tasks, with a minimum of risk to the student. That seems like a pretty good combination right there to me. I don't believe that Larry has any plans to expand the envelope of this training device at this time.

[PW_Plack]

You'd also need more room to use it with a cable safely.

[GyroDoug]

Another video showing more details on the ultralight trainer program.

YouTube - Gyro Glider Boom Trainer Details Video.wmv (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3zEqsvY7nA&feature=email)

[PW_Plack]

It sure would be nice to see what the glider is doing without the Star Wars scrolling text! Could Larry just read the script into a mic, or put the text in some format that doesn't completely block what we're trying to see?

[GyroDoug]

It sure would be nice to see what the glider is doing without the Star Wars scrolling text! Could Larry just read the script into a mic, or put the text in some format that doesn't completely block what we're trying to see?

Paul,

I have already brought the subject up to him. I think he has limited technical media skills and is doing the best he knows how but he has always been willing to listen to suggestions and change things when he can so I suspect we will get past this challenge soon.