New construction pics and questions!

[KDOG]

Got the fuel tank mount on and it looks pretty! The side beams are just hanging from the bolts for the purposes of the picture. The next pic is of the front of the new keel to accomodate the new Starbee nose block. The last pic contains my question. As some of you may recall, I cut my diagonal engine mounts 14.25" by mistake instead of the 14.75" called for by the plans. But as you can see from the pic, it still seems to have plenty o' leverage hence my dilemna. On the one hand I can't see a reason to NOT use them, but I certainly do not want to jeopardize safety in the slightest. So does anyone see a good reason why I shouldn't use them? Any input would be appreciated. Hopefully, Ralph comes in and comments. I would post a pic of the whole airframe, but its raining and I'm too lazy at the moment to move the car and put it under the carport. ;)

A quick additional question - why can't we put the diagonal engine mount pcs upside down like on the fuel tank mount? It would save a lot of cutting... just a thought.

[KDOG]

Good grief, you think with some pics, you would get some responses!!! ;)

[scottessex]

Looks like it will be OK.
It looks like you are well on your way to having your machine built.

[banaari]

It's starting to look very much like a 'bee, well advanced. What sort of colour scheme will you be going for?

Looking at those diagonal struts, and contemplating the margins Ralph (are you there?) no doubt built in, I can't see that making any meaningful difference.


John

[Brian Jackson]

KDOG,

I've been thinking about your post, and for the life of me cannot come up with a definitive explanation as to why Mr. Taggart designed the angle stock "mirror image" with respect to the Engine Mount Diagonals and the Tank Support Diagonals. I do not know why the angle's leg being above or below its spline makes a difference in that case. Perhaps it was artistic preference.

Ya know though, Mr. Taggart does have an email address. I wouldn't bug him any more than necessary, but I think he'd be willing to answer if you'd write the message. Let us know.

Thanks,
Brian Jackson

[KDOG]

I am worried about bugging him. I'm sure he gets bombarded with emails from builders all the time and I don't want to add the deluge unless absolutely neccessary. I still may fire one off to him though...

My color scheme was going to be Dark Metallic Blue and white, however I've changed my mind on the white and am changing it to chrome, so blue and chrome.

[Brian Jackson]

...My color scheme was going to be Dark Metallic Blue and white, however I've changed my mind on the white and am changing it to chrome, so blue and chrome.
What? You're not going for the Pink & Orange 2-tone? Hey, nice pix by the way. Your ship is going together nicely. I'm glad you're taking the time to ask questions and rebuild parts if necessary rather than "hacking" the thing together. Have you named her yet?

I'm so thankful that Ralph made such an effort with the GyroBee design, and made his plans public knowledge so guys like us could build an amazing machine. The Bee really has this kinda "cult following" (not to be confused with $cientology :eek: ). This makes it great for us because of the large user base... or would that be "hive"... (or would that Bee hive)... there's a pun in there somewhere.

Keep us posted on your progress.

Cheers,
Brian Jackson

[KDOG]

I haven't named it yet and don't know if I will. Tommorrow I'll order some more of the 1x1 angle, 1.5x1.5 angle, a foot or so of the 2x2 angle, some more nuts and bolts and possibly the round tubing for the gear - don't know about that though. After that it will be time to slow down for the holiday season - not enough funds to go around. I might get the seat from Starbee so I can at least sit in it and make flying noises during the winter.... as for the large user base, that one of the main reasons I decided to build the bee. I already had plans to another aircraft that I paid for - the Affordaplane - but there is ZERO support for that aircraft. No forums or anything.

[banaari]

Tee hee - a bee hive is where you grow bees.
Multiple bees would a swarm. :)

[scottessex]

Before you order the round tubing, check out Star Bee's own suspension system it is really SWEET!
I saw it at ROC, I don't think that the whole suspension kit is over $300. But it sure is nice.

[Brian Jackson]

Hi Scott.

I had the pleasure of meeting Scott & Laura of StarBee at Mentone 2004. The Bee they had on display was an amazing machine. The only thing I was concerned with was that Ralph's plans called for a 7 ft. gear stance in lieu of StarBee's 5 ft. stance. I like StarBee's springs and such, but Ralph designed the wider gear to minimize roll-over for new pilots.

What's great is that we have a choice, and some proven designs. It gives me the "warm fuzzies" to know there are rules to stick by, and building practices that will produce a safe machine if adhered to.

[Brian Jackson]

The attached rendering displays 3 ways an angle can be cut. To say "just cut it at a 45" or something, leaves the origin in question. At what point do we begin the cut? From the outside "absolute edge", from the inside, or the tangent?

I apologize if it's common knowledge already. But tiny details like this mean everything where questions remain.

Thanks guys.

Brian Jackson

[banaari]

Hi Brian,
The diagrams in the PDF, and what I've been doing: "Inside Flush". Actually, probably "Tangent", tending to "Inside Flush" as the piece gets filed down...

John

[KDOG]

Me too, I don't know of any absolute cuts on my machine....do any make a difference?

[Brian Jackson]

...I had the pleasure of meeting Scott & Laura of StarBee at Mentone 2004...
oops :o ... I meant Dana & Laura. Sorry

[skyguynca]

I haven't named it yet and don't know if I will. Tommorrow I'll order some more of the 1x1 angle, 1.5x1.5 angle, a foot or so of the 2x2 angle, some more nuts and bolts and possibly the round tubing for the gear - don't know about that though. After that it will be time to slow down for the holiday season - not enough funds to go around. I might get the seat from Starbee so I can at least sit in it and make flying noises during the winter.... as for the large user base, that one of the main reasons I decided to build the bee. I already had plans to another aircraft that I paid for - the Affordaplane - but there is ZERO support for that aircraft. No forums or anything.


I built one of those affordaplanes, way heavy and under powered even if built strictly by the plans. The whole airplane flexes to much for comfort while flying. It is marginal at best. They are still selling the plans but there is no builder support. The only builder I have ever talked to that is still flying his modified it alot and put a 670 on it for power.

[Ralph]

A careful study of the Gyrobee CAD drawings will show that all the angled cuts are what, according to Brian's examples, would be "inside flush".

Ralph

[Brian Jackson]

Thanks, Ralph. That's what I thought too. I just wanted to be sure how the inside radius was handled by the cut. Cheers.

Respectfully,
Brian Jackson

[Ralph]

The engine mount braces would actually carry a SLIGHTLY eavier load if reversed, but the difference is not significant. They are oriented as indicated to make it easier to inspect wiring or anything else from the engine that may use the tank mount braces for routing/support.

If you don't mind my saying so, some of you guys are pushing too hard and thus making more mistakes then we did when building the first one!

Ralph

[KDOG]

Ralph: You really think we're pushing too hard? I think its going SLOW from my perspective... Also can you comment on my question in my original post and if you don't mind how does my fuel tank mount look?

[banaari]

If you don't mind my saying so, some of you guys are pushing too hard and thus making more mistakes then we did when building the first one!

Point well taken.

...If you want to stay sane, then building an aircraft should be regarded as a journey, not a destination...

[Brian Jackson]

Point well taken.

...If you want to stay sane, then building an aircraft should be regarded as a journey, not a destination...
Amen to that! Hey, nice talking with you on the phone the other day. And you're right, it is a fantastic journey. In my own journey thus far, I've learned a wealth of information, am learning new skills, and meeting some truly amazing people along the way. And when I'm done and trained properly, I get to soar with the eagles! Some folks sink huge sums of money and time in their cars, etc. But when they're done, it's still a car, and the view from the road hasn't changed. Nothing wrong with that, I like cars. But for the same effort us gyro builders have a whole new world to explore when we're done. Somehow I can't imagine myself pursuing anything else right now... I mean, how do you top that?

Be well fellow "drones" :D
Brian Jackson

[Jonvee]

I read this line on another website that goes something like...
A poorly planned project takes four times as long to complete than planned. A well planned project only takes twice as long.

[Brian Jackson]

I read this line on another website that goes something like...
A poorly planned project takes four times as long to complete than planned. A well planned project only takes twice as long.
:D :D :D ... I'll have to remember that one! Great quote. Mine's kinda somewhere between the "ridiculously slow" and your 2'nd option... Until recently I was unemployed and hadn't the resources to afford materials & tools. As you can probably tell from my diagramed posts I've had WAY too much time to think about every detail of this ship. I guess that's what one does when one dreams of "someday maybe." Fortunately it's worked out well, and I'm convinced God gives us the things we pray for when we're ready to handle them. I just wish He'd hurry up about it! :)

Brian Jackson

[KDOG]

THough I'd wish it would go faster, I always just tell myself "it will get done when it gets done." Although I'd like it to be done yesterday, my main airframe won't be complete until next spring. And I have no idea when I'll be able to get my hands on an engine or even the rotors!!! I will be ordering some stuff here soon, but this winter I want to work on the house a little. So the bee construction is about to take a huge slowdown.

But hey, at least were all "gonna-be's" instead of "wannabes", right?

[Brian Jackson]

But hey, at least were all "gonna-be's" instead of "wannabes", right?
I like the way you phrased that. Yep! It's GOING to happen. Part of the mistique of this forum is that it encompasses fly photos which I've found to be a guilty pleasure. They remind me of why I want to fly, and keep me motivated.

[StanFoster]

Brian: Since you like photos...here is a teaser. :D

Just think...next year you will be up there.

Stan

[Brian Jackson]

Thanks, Stan! I'm a huge fan of your photos, and hope that someday I can con you into letting me share a ride with you. Cheers,

Brian Jackson

[Brian Jackson]

By the way, I named my ship... Hope the name doesn't sound too arrogant; I do however aspire to making her the ultimate example of a stock GyroBee. Guess we'll see how my building skills develop over time :D

[Brian Jackson]

If anyone's interested, here's a snapshot of my first mitre cut today. It's exactly 48.8 degrees based on the dimensions on Ralphs documentation. Both surfaces are fine-filed to a mirror-like finish. The second image is the CAD model I calculated the angle from. By the way, a member of this forum yelled at me yesterday for using black backgrounds on my CAD models... I didn't realize anybody was wasting the ink printing them out :eek:

Regards,
Brian Jackson

[KDOG]

What kind of file did you use Brian? I would like to get my parts that smooth....and I have a lot of parts!!! I've got bee parts all over the place in my workshop. I'll have to take some time and organize it...

[Brian Jackson]

What kind of file did you use Brian? I would like to get my parts that smooth...
Kevin,
I have no idea. It's just some file my wife's dad handed me. I'm learning it's more in the wrist stroke than anything... difficult to describe. I never would have believed such results were possible.

[banaari]

...Some folks sink huge sums of money and time in their cars...

Ha! A thought - you can choose to rev your engine at traffic lights, or you can rev your engine at the threshold of say, two-five left... Eat my pollen!!!

John

[Ron Marlett]

What kind of file did you use Brian? I would like to get my parts that smooth....and I have a lot of parts!!! I've got bee parts all over the place in my workshop. I'll have to take some time and organize it...


Kdog
It is not so much the file but the way it is used. Just about any medium/fine tooth file can produce a mirror finish when using a technique called draw filing. In normal filing, the file is grasped by the handle end and pushed lengthwise across the workpiece(///represents a file).

(handle end)//////////////////////////////// --->

The teeth cut into a typical file are at a slight angle(about 25 degrees) and when used in this fashion, that is the angle at which the teeth cut into the metal of the workpiece.

You have probably heard of a woodworkers tool called a Draw Knife. For those who are unfamilliar with this tool, it is a type of hand plane consisting of a knife blade with a handle at each end. This tool is held in both hands and either drawn toward or pushed away from you as it cuts into the wood.

A file can be used in this same fashion. You hold the file with a hand at each end like a pair of bicycle handlebars. You then draw or push the file along the workepiece(depending on how it is held) like you would push/pull a lawnmower.

///////////////(handle)
Push away from you /\

(handle)///////////////
Draw toward you \/

When used in this fashion, the 25 degree file teeth are applied to the metal of the workpiece at a 65 degree angle. This causes them to take a smaller/smoother cut. The hand that holds the tapered handle end of the file will determine wether you should push the file away from you or pull it towards you. With the handle in your right hand, you should push the file away and with the handle in your left hand, you should pull the file toward you.

This method removes less metal than normal filing so use that method to get most of the saw marks out first then drawfile to a mirror finish. It is also good for putting a consistent bevel along a sharp edge.

Throw a piece of scrap aluminum in a vise and give it a try. I think you will be pleased with the results.

[Brian Jackson]

Great info, Ron. Thanks for sharing that with us. I was "kinda" doing it right, but was unaware of the drawknife technique. It's amazing what one can learn here if one pays attention. Cheers,

Brian Jackson

[banaari]

Ron: Outstanding, will use that advice. :)
(This really is turning into Metalwork 101, Free Gyrocopter Included TM)

KDog: I found it necessary to acquire a second, coarser, file... depending on how much material you have to remove, the fine file needed for finishing can drive you nuts on hog-it-out work.

Anybody who isn't already: Use cutting fluid, both for drilling and hacksawing. Makes life a LOT easier.

cheers,
John