Hollmann HA-2M Sportster

[ironcowboy]

Construction has begun on my Hollmann HA-2M Sportster, I have ordered my first batch of aluminum from Aircraft Spruce and Specialty Company. I predict about 1498.5 hours build time remains.

[okikuma]

Keep all of us posted with regular updates and photos of your build.

Thanks,

Wayne

[ironcowboy]

Stats thus far:

About 6 hours invested into reading and understanding the prints.

$536 for the design prints and operating manual.

$140, in 6061T6 2x2’s, 0.125 plate stock (4sqft), and AN hardware. This material will construct the inner core of the aircraft comprising the main keel, rotor mast, center cabin diagonal keel, and the gusset plates required for these members.

Now I can say I’m about 90% complete; however, that last 10% seems like it takes forever!

Anyway, as designed this machine is HTL… I know, I know, I know. I do want to say this design does have a good amount of both vertical and horizontal stabilizer immersion in the prop’s wash, so that is a significant positive attribute to offset the HTL tendency of this particular HLT design.

I think it’s logical to say that in an HLT design when you are in straight and level flight, and add power the nose would otherwise tend to lower (not desirable or an unstable trait). However in this HLT design because the horizontal stabilizer is right behind the prop the increased air velocity from the additional power would generate greater additional negative lift to counter balance the tendency of the nose to drop.

Has anyone ever built a Gyro that has a progressive trim tab on the immersed horizontal stabilizer that is coupled to the throttle in an HLT design? So, that when you apply power the elevator rotates slightly to increase negative pitch to the H stab which keeps the nose level or even raises it slightly? Also as power is reduced in an HLT design the nose tends to raise (undesirable) in the above described throttle linked to the horizontal trim tab, more positive lift would be generated when power is retarded to cause the nose to drop slightly. Is this a common way to reduce the natural instability of an HLT design? I think it probably is, but I’m not an aircraft designer.

In regard to PIO and PPO of this design, it is aerodynamically “neutral” based on the dimensions of the design as built to plan specifications during computer modeling. PIO in this design does not amplify if a disturbance of one of the other forces of flight on the airframe changes (thrust, drag, lift or weight) There is no amplification of the disturbance that increases the pendulum swing effect when left in a “hands off the controls satiation.” In other words if oscillation is induced in this design either by the pilot or natural factors, it remains constant, but does not amplify/increase or diminish/reduce. This is neither good or bad, it’s indifferent.

As to my understanding of stability, you desire an aircraft that will raise the nose on acceleration and lower the nose on deceleration. The great question/debate is how do you make that occur…

[danmcgee]

I was under the impression that this is already a neutrally stable aircraft by design and the test sheet is avaiable on Hollmans website as a free down load but here is the direct link.

http://www.aircraftdesigns.com/gyropitch-outputs.html

Are you going to build this with his original cabin design or more like the cabin on the RAF or Sparrowhawk

Dan

[danmcgee]

opps I just read the bottom of your post and said the same thing I was thinking so disregard.

But will still be interesting to see how you build this aircraft. If it performs well for you then I will spend the money and add the plans to my library

[ironcowboy]

Hi Dan, I was planning to keep it as much as possible to the original design, but I may not use fiberglass in the areas it calls for fiberglass. I’m not yet sure how I want to approach that yet, I’m leaning to carbon fiber or I could use aluminum. I could even use fabric and dope in a few places. I can say that I’d like to bump the fuel tank size from 12 to 15 gallons, and thinking I’ll go with the EJ Subaru 2.2 EFI which drinks 6.0GPH at 75% power. That should get me a full 1.6 hour flight time at 80MPH, and the aircraft can handle the extra 3 gallons for the weight, and it falls within the CG range as well. This also would give me my 30 minutes reserve fuel level. I don’t like the design of the current fuel tank; it holds 1.5 gallons unusable, which is a lot for only a 12 gallon tank.

[Vance]

Hello Cortland,

In my opinion you will need to get down to 80 horse power to only burn 6 gallons of gas per hour.

With the added weight of the Subaru and the extra weight of the fuel I suspect you will use more than 6 gallons per hour to fly.

Perhaps some of the people here flying a 2.2 Subaru in a gyroplane would share their consumption numbers.

I like to plan my trips to land with a about 7 gallons. I have found it doesn’t take much headwind to burn a lot of extra fuel when you fly slow. I have 22 usable gallons on board.

Thank you, Vance

[ironcowboy]

Thanks Vance, I got the 6.0GPH from a supplier of aircraft prepped 2.2 subies and they advertise that at 75% power, they consume 6.0GPH with the EFI, Also the rotax 912 (carbed) (80HP) that i fly burns 4.0 GPH at 75% power, as an observation, at full slant she drinks about 5.2GPH.. ON the subie I bet I'll be about 7.0GPH, so you can see why I want 15 Gallons gas on board... cause I actually want to fly places more then 25NM miles away from home...

Anyway,

In the design of the Hollmann HA-2M (Hamster) because the cabin enclosure makes it look like a hamster with food packed into its cheeks… Anyway, the fuel tank centroid is essentially an aluminum box that is located 23 inches forward of the center of the operational range of the aircraft’s center of gravity. The tank is 12 gallons with only 10.5 usable. I intend on making a few tweaks of the tank bottom to increase the usable fuel level, and to increase the fuel level to 15 gallons. I have the room in around the tank to do so.

23 inches centroid to centroid seems pretty far forward of Aircraft CG for a fuel tank? What say you…

Because the tank is so far forward of aircraft CG I was not able to simply make a larger tank at the same location, because it puts my max weight takeoff CG forward of the operational CG limit by about 1 inch. Bummer!

I did my calculations last night on the original design and discovered that I can leave the tank exactly where it is in its same foot print, but instead of it being simply rectangle with a constant centroid at 23 inches fwd of CG, I can transform it into the shape of a parallelogram sloping in the direction of the rotor mast. By doing that, the tank now has a moving center of gravity. Full fuel moves the tank’s CG back toward the rotor mast by approximately 6 inches, ½ tank by 3 inches aft, and at ZF I’m right back to where I started. I verified that under all fuel and passenger loading configurations where the aircraft meets minimum and maximum operational weights, my aircraft CG falls with in design limits. And I am not over gross weight by increasing full fuel load from 12 to 15 gallons.

Actually it’s not a parallelogram, as the back side slopes more then the front does, so the sides are not parallel; therefore, it is not a parallelogram! That is how I got the increase from 12 to 15 gallons, the fact that it is not a parallelogram. I added this paragraph in as an after thought, because I figured someone here would catch this fact and taunt me :)

So how far forward or aft of aircraft CG range is your fuel tank?

Also with the additional fuel, I’m at 1070 pounds max gross flight weight assuming that my engine comes in at under 233 pounds.

[brett s]

Vance is right about the fuel consumption - a 4 stroke will burn around 6 gallons per hour @ 80 hp, no way around that.

So it's really about a 110 hp engine at max power as it's configured, or they're fudging either the fuel consumption or power setting they're calling "75%".

[phantom]

the glanville skymaster which was a virsion of the sportster had the fuel tank on the firewall behind the seats and was the full width of the cabin, it worked better than the sportster set up.

[Vance]

So how far forward or aft of aircraft CG range is your fuel tank?

Also with the additional fuel, I’m at 1070 pounds max gross flight weight assuming that my engine comes in at under 233 pounds.


Hello Cortland,

My two 11 gallon tanks centers are a few inches ahead and below CG.

I don’t have weight and balance with me in Florida or I could tell you exactly.

I have included a picture so you can get an idea.

They are slightly below the center of gravity and as they empty she flies noticeably different.

The passenger’s center of gravity is several inches ahead of the CG of the aircraft and she flies a little differently solo than she does with a 250 pound passenger.

She hangs noticeably more nose down with a 160 pound passenger.

The Predator’s gross weight is 1,400 pounds with 30 foot blades and 160 horsepower.

The horizontal stabilizer is close to zero angle of attack in level flight at 60kts.

I would call Martin for an opinion on how sensitive the Sporster is to center of gravity and weight changes. He has flown with a wide variety of pasanger weights.

He has spent a lot of time explaining his opinions to me and I am not building a Sporster. In my experience he is very generous with his knowledge.

Thank you, Vance

[okikuma]

Hi Cortland,

Interesting ideas you have.

IMHO, I'd stick with using the Lycoming O-320. The simplicity is in the installation. With the Subaru, lots of modification, set up, tinkering, and the like which add complexity. There are numerous used O-320s out there at reasonable prices, ready install and operate.

Still, I'm enjoying reading about your ideas and progression.

Thanks,

Wayne

[ironcowboy]

Okikuma,

I think your right, I think I’ll go with a O-320, simple… and I can have it fuel injected for a price.

I made my first cuts tonight. The 81deg rake of the double 2x2 rotor mast, the center cabin keel, and the main cabin lower keel, these three members comprise the main inner core of the whole aircraft and everything else will be added to these three tubes. The diagonal 2x2 runs through the center of the cabin and separates the pilot and passenger.

[Caribean_gyro]

The hollman machine dont like long cabins . I lost a friend 2 weeks ago , he change the original cabin to a Scorpio type. It was nose heavy , plus other things.

I would put a round tube inside the 2x2 in the mast to stiffit more also to help in a roll event .
CHarles

[Brent_Brown]

the mast looks like it 2 each 2x2s why add more

[danmcgee]

Very interesting build thread. I have one of Martins Bumblebee's and was looking at the sporter but did not like the cabin. It will be interesting to see how it flys and handles with the changes you do. I bet it would make a great side by side trainer without a cabin on it at all.

Dan

[ironcowboy]

Charles,

Sorry to hear about your loss, it’s most unfortunate, and you can bet I read the post on the forum about this with much interest. I intend to stick with the plans as produced in regard to all critical airframe parts and dimensions. My plans say that the rotor mast is required to be redundant 2x2, which is a fancy way of saying that you sandwich two separate 2 x 2 beams into a single 2” x 4” mast.

Dan,

It might make a good side by side trainer without the cabin, but it certainly would take quite a bit of recalculation and verification, as this would definitely change the type of drag and its ratio to each other (Dynamic/Parasitic) in addition the change in weight would have tremendous affect on it as well. The “as built” cabin enclosure weights about 70ish pounds, and is well forward of the aircraft’s operational range of CG. Coupling both the weight and drag changes would produce a different aircraft, that’s for sure.

Cort

[choppergabor]

Cool! Another build thread. You sure have picked an interesting one :) Good luck with it Cort, it takes a lot of effort and talent to build something from scratch. I am always interested seeing solutions to problems and during a build you'll run into some stuff for sure :) I'll be following your build for sure.

[ironcowboy]

Well for crying out loud! Why didn’t I think of this sooner! SEAT TANKS! That solves by small gas tank problem! Each seat tank is 7.4 gallons, and that gives me 14.8 gallons on board, most of which is usable fuel, (unlike the factory design.) It will move my CG aft nicely, enough so that I can have a radio and transponder in the instrument panel… and, and… it will slightly raise my vertical CG by varying amounts, putting me closer to CLT. Now I don’t have to heli-arc this monstrosity that weights 15 pounds empty, only holds 12 gallons and has 1.5 unusable level… and I now can scrap the stock tube and nylon webbing seats for molded plastic comfort! My girlfriend has already begun to quilt seat covers! Yessssss.

[Timchick]

You can get larger seat tanks that will hold approx 12 gallons each.

[dabkb2]

The only problem you might have is they have to fit side by side.

[Brent_Brown]

I would go with seat tanks. 2 hours is a good time flying. If flying solo put a fuel bag on the seat next to you and add another hour or 2.

[Caribean_gyro]

NO NO seat tank. that was also in myfriend gyro and move you foward. This machine needs to be inside its CG . Need to kas Martin. with a 18 gal tank should be enought for 3 hpurs flight

[ironcowboy]

That is exactly why seat tanks in this design would be an improvement, provided it does not make you tail heavy. I need to run the new numbers for load shift/WTBAL with the seat tanks in the plan to see where the CG will actually end up. (on paper of course)

Now with that said, in the “as built” plans, the designed fuel tank location is very close to 35” aft of datum (aka FS35). Seat tank(s) would move the CG (AFT), not forward. The centroid of the present seats is at approximately FS 46. Going back to about 1903, the general principal in aircraft design is to mount fuel tanks as close to overall aircraft CG as possible. This is accomplished so as to have less impact on aircraft CG when going from a full fuel tank to an empty tank. The perfect tank location is symmetrical and centered on the aircraft’s horizontal CG. This on paper would produce zero change in moments from full to empty weight of the aircraft. On paper, you would not even need to adjust the flight control trim of such an aircraft.

In the real world of course, this is often not possible and is a compromise that the builder needs to make. Sometimes there are beams, bars braces and things located at CG that you can’t move, so you have to move the fuel tank, but the overriding goal of most designers is to locate the fuel tanks as close to the aircraft’s operationally ready CG point as possible, so as to have the smallest possible impact on the CG range when going from full tanks to empty tanks.

Please don’t take this wrong, but the incident aircraft also had wheels, an engine and a set of rotor blades, but we should not (exclude) them from future designs because the incident aircraft happen to be equipped with them.

I’m curious, what was the interrogated weight at the wheels of your friends operationally ready HA-2M?

Also with 18 gallons, you would only get about 2 to 2.5 hours of flight if using an O-320, not counting the VFR reserve requirement. They drink about 7 to 9 GPH depending on wind and throttle setting.

[PW_Plack]

...The perfect tank location is symmetrical and centered on the aircraft’s horizontal CG. This on paper would produce zero change in moments from full to empty weight of the aircraft...

Not exactly. If you join the two tanks through a "Y" or otherwise drain them in sync to keep your roll trim centered, you may produce a significant downward shift in the vertical coordinate of CG as fuel is consumed, which will affect pitch stability. Make sure to check the vertical location of CG in a partial-fuel condition which has the seatbacks drained, but the seat bottoms still full. This will be the worst-case for its effect on pitch stability.

[ironcowboy]

Rodger that PW, I know exactly what you mean. I guess that statement was ambiguous on its face… the shape of the tank is quite important, shame on me, by mind had the image of a perfect cylinder tank with ½ on each side of horizontal CG…

It’s important to know before hand this design is slightly HTL, and slightly nose heavy (the fuel tank is mounted out a way’s from the centroid of the CG range, so presently the CG moves about 6 inches from full gas to ZF, so by moving the fuel aft and up, it will help things out :) I want to plant my final CG in operational config right smack in the middle of the CG range, and to hopefully reduce the range of this particular aircraft. The 6 inch range is fine with the designer, but I want to try to cut the CG range in 1/2

I’ll run the numbers under various fuel configurations this week; I think I’ll even build a CG spreadsheet on excel for my aircraft.

[okikuma]

Hi Cortland,

Silas Smith's Marchetti Avenger had two of the Ken Brock style of seat tanks.

http://home.earthlink.net/~silasfsmith/_uimages/Tazgyro1.jpg

http://home.earthlink.net/~silasfsmith/_uimages/tazgyro2jpg.jpg

By the way, my wife and I might be in Palm Desert for a few days in early May. Perhaps we can meet up and have lunch or dinner and talk about gyros.

Wayne

[danmcgee]

I for one would be very interested in seeing that spreadsheet when you get it done. This thread is great and I love your thinking.

Dan

[ironcowboy]

I put together an excel spread sheet to assist in verification of weight and balance. Based on the program, I can accommodate two 11 gallon seat tanks and make gross weight, and be with in my CG range. Of course this depends on the weight of my passenger. With a heavy passenger, you get less fuel, but with two standard passengers, and a Lycoming O-320, this should give me right about 2 hours flight time + 30 minutes of VFR reserve gas.

I spent all day today working in the garage, and have the first major assembly roughed in. The rotor mast has an 81 degree rake from vertical. I took photos of the gusset plates at the nose, rotor mast base and middle mast. For fun, I stuck two folding chairs where the seats will some day go. I can already visualize this…

Thought for the day: why did it take 8 hours to bolt 3 pipes together?

[ironcowboy]

I have now ordered batch number two of 6061T6 2x2, ASTM steel angle 1x1, and 6061T6 angle 1x1 and lots of AN hardware to bolt it all together.

[ckurz7000]

...Thought for the day: why did it take 8 hours to bolt 3 pipes together?

You have to give yourself credit for what you accomplished. You also positioned two lawn chairs and documented your work photographically. ;)

And foreplay is always the most titillating part of the act...

-- Chris.

[karlbamforth]

I took photos of the gusset plates at the nose, rotor mast base and middle mast.

Are they the finished item or temporary fit ? Just wondering.

[ironcowboy]

Karl,

Temporary fit at this point…

Chris,

Too much foreplay with aviation visualization can lead to premature rotation…

[ironcowboy]

I drilled and mounted the axle beam and the forward foot rest beam with ½ drilling complete. I used my homemade alignment template bar and so far it works pretty darn good…

[ironcowboy]

I got a couple hours more build time tonight

[ironcowboy]

Installed the tail booms today, and cut out and mounted the nose gear mount plate and the swivel plate. All main frame 2x2’s are installed. Next major assembly to fabricate and install is the landing gear, struts and braces

[ironcowboy]

Welpers, I have placed yet another order for parts from Aircraft spruce and specialty company. I’ve ordered wheels, tires, breaks and axles from Matco MFG, and two seat tanks from Calumet air. …and my A36 series angle material arrived today! Now if I can just shake that sexual harassment complaint:flame::angel: at work, it’ll shape up to be a right fancy week!

[ironcowboy]

Well, it was a busy week. I made good progress on the Gyro, and it looks like the worst of my other problems are behind me now. The company Senior VP said something like this, “Son, the sexual harassment allegations levied against you by Ms xxxx were so over-the-top outlandish and apparently grotesque in nature that we simply could not find them to be believable in this day and age. But if they were true, that took some mighty big balls to pull that off! Mister C, we respect big balls here at xxxx Corporation, so we’d like to offer you a Junior Partnership in the Company, what do you say? Incidentally Ms xxx has resigned… At any rate the frustration of this all was nicely channeled into the left side main gear strut where I had to hammer the strut end into shape… So I say thank you, Ms. xxxx for providing me the hammering fuel, and a promotion.:peace:

[okikuma]

HI Cortland,

Coming right along there! Way to go!

Wayne

[ironcowboy]

I made some more progress today and got the pilot side main wheel bearing blocks and the landing gear strut installed. Main gear struts are now complete. And I got the nose wheel swivel plate installed. Does anyone have any good ideas on how to make a homemade metal bending contraption? I need to bend plate that is .190 6061T6. I have a few ideas, but wanted to ask.

[ironcowboy]

Dear Mr Carrington, United States Registration number N6871S has been reserved…

Why N6871S… I was born in 68, and a very dear friend of mine was born in November of 71. Steve was tragically killed quite a few years ago in a snowmobiling accident. Steve and I grew up down the road from each other. We lived in a fairly rural part of Indiana (at that time) and pretty much grew up in the corn and bean fields. But I digress, we grew up together in a time when moms said “GET OUT OF THE HOUSE, and be home 30 minutes after sun set.” “But mom, we cried, it’s only 7AM…” We explored every inch of every river, woods and road within about 75 miles of the house, oh and the National Guard Armory with those awesome HU1H helicopters, wow. Ahh the good old days, and to that, my Gyrocopter is dedicated as N6871S

Anyway, my stats thus far. I’m at 81 total hours build time. I’ve spent on the airframe in part purchased from Aircraft Spruce Co, $700.95, which includes all shipping and California Tax… at freaking 8.75% @$# highway robber barons! Total expenses that include Matco wheels, brakes and Goodyear tires + Calumet seat tanks and all associated plumbing and hardware is $1683.79

[danmcgee]

Cort two metal breaks are in your e-mail. One full size and one small they should do judt what you need and real easy to make. Also sent you a document on bend radius and allowances.

Dan

[ironcowboy]

Thank you sir, I got it!

[ironcowboy]

Cut out and fabricated the control column lower mounts, installed rear mount. I installed the fire wall lower angle bracket and the cabin lower angle bracket and the aft cabin strut on the pilot side. I goofed up several struts and ended up wasting about 6 feet of 1x1 angle… not a big deal all and all, but I got the strut making and bending process worked out! I still have enough angle to make the passenger side strut and several other struts.

[okikuma]

Hi Cortland,

I'm so surprised how small the lower cluster plates that hold the mast to the keel. One would think that those plates would be as large with as many bolts as the cluster plates Bensen used on his gyrocopters.

I for one am enjoying reading and see the the photos of your build all the while learning much more about the design of the Sportster.

Thanks,

Wayne

[ironcowboy]

Ya know Wayne; I’m surprised by that too. The only thing I can think of is due to the center brace and the cabin enclosure all of which serve to clamp the main rotor tubes at various points and distribute the aircraft weight along several different points working up the rotor tubes, that it’s just not necessary to have a monster cluster plate down there… I guess I’ll find out on my first 2 G turn… ha ha ha ha…

The plans call for a fairly intricate series of angle to frame up the rudder peddle tubes and attaching gear that operates the spring loaded steerable nose wheel. The original plans called for a series of partial 7/8th rad cuts into the edge of the angles. What the hell, did Martin have a death wish? Have you ever tried to bore or cut one half of a 7/8th diameter hole into a piece of angle, well I tried and it nearly killed me 3 times over…

I redesigned the rudder peddle mounts as you can see in the below photos. The rod lengths, diameters and spacing are all to plan specifications; the only thing that is different is the attachment to the foot bar is a bit different, clearly superior in my opinion. I’ve ditched the single steerable nose wheel for a castering nose wheel and main brakes. All in all it’s about the same weight and gives twice the stopping power with less complicated stuff up in the nose wheel area.

I started to work on the back of the cabin and have some of the frame work installed. I made lots of progress over the last two days, as my girlfriend is out of town, and so I stayed up late, ate food that is really bad for me, cranked the shop radio and got my gyro on…

[phantom]

the brace that goes from the nose to the mast can be 1x2 with spacers at the attach points to save weight and gives a little more room with doors on.

[phantom]

those cuts for the peddle brackets can be done on a milling machine or rough cut with a saw and finished with a round file.

[ironcowboy]

Photobucket test... Yea!

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[ironcowboy]

Lots of update photos on today. The main frame is now complete. I received the wheels and tires/ brakes from Matco today, and the seat tanks from Sno-Bird should be here within the next two weeks… The wheels will be a bit of a challenge to mount on account of the brakes. I need to pin the axles into the mounting blocks with hefty enough bolt to retain the torque of breaking. Looks like two separate 3/16 inch bolts into each pillow block passing down thru the axle shaft should do the trick quite nicely. All they have to do is prevent axle rotation, and with two each on two separate sides that gives me 12/16 of an inch of AN grade steel to prevent rotation. And then there will be a third bolt that will simply be an emergency retainer to prevent separation of the axle from the aircraft in an absolute emergency situation.

[ironcowboy]

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[Brent_Brown]

what you are posting the last few I see nothing

[Gyro_Kai]

It is great fun to watch this being built with such great skill.

Kai.

[okikuma]

Hi Cortland,

Coming along just great! At this rate, You'll be test flying by the end of summer! Have you found a Lycoming 0-320 yet?

Wayne

[ironcowboy]

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[ironcowboy]

I have not even started looking for an engine yet. I will put that on my list of things to get! It’s moving right along, I’m sitting at about 125 hours as of today, and right at $2600 spent, $1000 was wheels, alone and $570 was two seat tanks... I made a tuition payment to the California School of Recreational Engineering this morning when I inadvertently mis-drilled one of my pillow blocks during wheel #2 mounting. Luckily I had spare material on hand to craft another, but I ate about 2 hours for the error. On the bright side, I discovered a faster, more precise way to make pillow blocks!

[ironcowboy]

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[ironcowboy]

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[Brent_Brown]

why can't I see what ironcowboy is posting anymore. or are you posting

[StanFoster]

Cortland- You are doing a nice job on this build. I love watching raw aluminum turn into something that flies. Keep up the excellent work. Stan

[ironcowboy]

Question my friends:

As you may know, I have elected to abandon the single nose wheel brake and use two main wheel brakes. I have also elected to abandon the steerable nose wheel for a castering wheel. I have retained the original geometry of the nose wheel fork, and all mounting plates and swivel stops. The distance from the swivel bolt that holds the nose wheel fork to the gyro, back to the axle bolt is 2.5 inches of distance. This is the factory designed distance. I’m concerned that I’ll experience nose wheel shimmy, never the less.

I’m inclined to install two (centering) springs on the nose wheel to keep it aligned with the centerline of the aircraft and the centerline of the runway. I have this nagging worry that the nose wheel will swivel off to one side or the other right before I land, as the airspeed may not be enough to keep the wheel centered with the fuselage. I really don’t think the landing would be smooth if the wheel was swiveled all the way over to one stop (about 35 deg off center) at touch down, even at say 30 to 40 MPH.

Am I over reacting to want to put two centering springs on my nose wheel to keep it centered with the aircraft in flight? What say you all?

PS you can retain the axles from rotation in the pillow blocks during brake application with two 3/16 AN bolts per axle. Matco uses two 3/16 bolts to hold the entire brake caliper to the axle flange; therefore by logical extension, (and verified by advanced calculation) two 3/16 AN bolts will hold the axles in the pillow blocks quite nicely. In theory you can even land with the brakes fully locked up at 60MPH and the bolts will hold to over 6.6G of deceleration forces with 2 each 3/16 bolts.

[Timchick]

why can't I see what ironcowboy is posting anymore. or are you posting

Brent, it must be on your end. I can see his photos OK.

[Brent_Brown]

the last photo I see is in post 46.

[karlbamforth]

Brent,

I was having the same problem as you. I think it just a slow download of the pictures.
Yesterday I couldn't see the pictures but had to go answer the phone, when I got back the pics had downloaded, I assume its just a slow download. Mine is quite fast on all other posts just this one is a bit slow.

[ironcowboy]

After post 46, I switched to photo bucket linking for posted photos. The previous photos are stored, evidently on this website, but the photos after P46 are stored on Photo Bucket, and a link on this website takes you to the photos. I did this for better photo quality and photo size. I wanted people to be able to see the finer details of how parts actually go together. Knowing how I wish I had detailed photos of how the installed parts should look… I guess the linking of the photos causes them to load slower over some connections. So click on the thread, go get something to eat and when you come back, you should be able to see progress… :)

[okikuma]

Hi Cortland,

IMHO, I don't think you need to worry about landing with a castering nose wheel that somehow might turn out of track with the direction of your landing track.

Because your specific nose wheel axle and center of mass of the wheel assembly is behind the vertical turning point during ground operations, the wheel will track true and straight in a forward direction. During the flair before landing, the nose wheel will keep itself centered and inline with the keel because the vertical line that runs through the vertical swivel point is tilted back allowing gravity to center the nose wheel. The next time you're at the market, take your shopping cart, lift the nose up and watch how the two nose wheels automatically center. The action and physics apply. Take the same cart, lift the nose and walk forward. Then while in forward motion, lower the nose and as soon as the wheels contact the floor, see if the cart turns in one direction.

As far as the centering springs, most aircraft that I know of that have castering nosewheels and use differential braking don't have centering springs. The nose wheels are allowed to caster 360 degrees like a shopping cart. The Grumman Tiger is one aircraft that I can think of off the cuff that has the previous mentioned nose wheel set up, and it works very well. The benefit of using differential braking steering is for very small turning radius. One can lock up one main wheel by stepping on that brake and pivot around the same. If there is a swivel stop on the nosewheel assembly, then one could not pivot effectively around that one locked up wheel.

Come to think of it now, Vance's Predator Gyroplane also has a full swiveling nosewheel and differental braking. He should comment on his experiences too.

Wayne

[JEFF TIPTON]

The Grumman series, Traveler, Cheetah, Tiger, and the two seater's have a limit of ninety degrees left and right. The Diamond aircraft series are limited to sixty degrees. The reason for the limitation is to keep the nose wheel from swinging into the propeller arc.

[Vance]

The Predator nose wheel swivels 360 degrees without any kind of index and as long as I keep grease on the surface it dampens just fine.

It actually uses a rotor head with the same double row ball bearing.

At one point the pivot assembly became worn and I use a piece of plastic tape to make up for the wear.

When it did shimmy because of wear it didn’t cause any problems, it just felt like it would eventually come apart. She was still completely controllable.

She has over 750 hours on her and well over 2,000 landings.

Thank you, Vance

[ironcowboy]

The fire wall is rough mounted. Thank you Mr Dremmel, you cut into stainless steel fire wall like nothing doing! Next step is to install the lower aluminum panel and 60 to 100 rivets into those panels… then get to work on seat mounts, instrument panel, and the control sticks.

http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy286/ironcowboy13/IMGP9184.jpg

[ironcowboy]

http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy286/ironcowboy13/IMGP9185.jpg

[ironcowboy]

http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy286/ironcowboy13/IMGP9187.jpg

[ironcowboy]

http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy286/ironcowboy13/IMGP9188.jpg

[All_In]

It's starting to come together, good job!

[ironcowboy]

http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy286/ironcowboy13/IMGP9189.jpg

[ironcowboy]

http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy286/ironcowboy13/IMGP9191.jpg

[ironcowboy]

http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy286/ironcowboy13/IMGP9194.jpg

[ironcowboy]

http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy286/ironcowboy13/IMGP9198.jpg

[ironcowboy]

http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy286/ironcowboy13/IMGP9200.jpg

[ironcowboy]

http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy286/ironcowboy13/IMGP9202.jpg

[ironcowboy]

The current weights as of now are 38.5 pounds at the nose wheel, 55.5 pounds on the passenger side, and 55.0 on the pilot side. But I weighed it with 6 clamps that I forgot to remove that weight about 4 pounds. So well call it 145 pounds. Complete weight without the engine or rotors is supposed to be 313 Pounds. So I’m about ½ done per the weights.
http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy286/ironcowboy13/IMGP9201.jpg

[joe nelson]

Cortland,

What are you using to cut your sheet metal? From the pictures the cuts look very clean!

[okikuma]

Hi Cortland,

Great progress! What rotorblades are you going to use? Are you going to build a set of 9" cord Hollmann HA-28s or use 8.5" Sportcopter blades?

Thanks,

Wayne

[ironcowboy]

Joe, would you believe me if I told you the sheet metal was entirely freehand cut with standard straight/right tin snips? For the inner cuts, I bored 1” dia holes to get the snips into, and began to remove metal. After careful cutting inside the line, I use a Dremmel 300 with a carbide metal milling bit to very gently shave back to the line. This works wonderfully, but you need to just take your time. The carbide cutter even cuts .016 Stainless steel fire wall with ease.

Okikuma, I will not be making my own rotor blades. Yes Martin recommends using the 29 foot SportCopter bonded aluminum 8.5 cord blades, I think I will be using them, like 90% sure.

I am at a work stoppage point until after the Memorial Day weekend. Wife said we are going to our daughter’s house in Orange County CA to help her refinish King Arthur’s table over there...It a big a$$ table; then, we go to Seattle to camp with our other daughter… I have 4 daughters… Lots of women in my life! The other daughters get July 4th weekend this year. I sometimes feel like a child in a custody battle, but I love them all very much, and cherrish the time I spend with them.

[ironcowboy]

“Honey, before we go to Lauren’s house to help her sand King Arthur’s table, she wanted us to get that big painting of hers out of the back of the garage, you know that one behind her other boxes? …could you get that out for her before we go, she would really appreciate that?

“Sure honey, anything for the women I love”

But she lets me build gyro’s



http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy286/ironcowboy13/IMGP9095.jpg

It's hard to see because of the other boxes; however, there is a 4' by 6' painting behind this stuff!

[All_In]

OMG however, you are a wise man indeed to keep her happy!!!!

[GyroDoug]

Courtland,

I am impressed. You have obviously figured out how to balance your obligations to your family and your passion for flying. You are a wise man to keep them in proper perspective and using a balanced approach. Not only is life less painful that way but it makes everything a lot more fun too.

I am really enjoying your build thread. Thank you for taking the time to document everything and share it with us. I know that takes time but we are all learning a lot from what you post. I can't wait to see how it turns out. Best of luck!!!!

[ironcowboy]

As you may know, the HA-2M originally had a 12 gallon fuel tank mounted under the bench seat. The bench seat was three, 36 inch long 7/8th inch dia .065 steel pipes, and lawn chair webbing stung to them. The fuel tank was to be mounted on the 2x2 keel bar. The 12 gallon tank has a 1.5 gallon unusable fuel level, and a Lycoming 0-320 uses 8.0GPH, and you must have a 30 minute VFR reserve… 12 minus 1.5 equals 10.5 gallons and now take away 4 gallons for the half hour VFR leaves you with 6.5 gallons… so that literally gets you about 65- 80 miles before you should be back on the ground. Not cool!

I eliminated the three steel bar seats and single tank and went with seat tanks from Calumet (Sno-bird) now I have 15 gallons fuel on board and have real tank sumps! The seat tanks move my CG aft and UP! This is great as I need my vertical CG as high up as I can get it as this is a slightly HTL design. So the higher I can get my vertical CG the better I’ll feel. I’ll also have much less unusable fuel with these designs. During level flight, the seat frames are tilted back toward the sumps by about 1 degree or about ¾ of a levels bubble, just enough to assure positive drain of fuel to the aft sump (aft) side of the tank.

Some seat attachment modification was required, as elimination of the round steel rods had to be worked around, AND the seats frames must also support not only the weight of the pilot and passenger but now also the tank seats and fuel. 180+180+22 (seats) + 90 (gas) = 472 pounds x 3.5G max smack down loading = 1652 pounds.

I DO NOT like bending.125, 6061T-6 past about 25-30 Deg of bend as the hyper extended side of the bend develops face cracking. By eliminating the original steel pipe seats, I by default eliminated the points on the fuselage where the cabin structure bolted to, that gave it rigidity. By eliminating the original seats this forced me into a situation that bends of struts would need to exceed 25-30 deg. So I used ASTM A36 steel 1x1 by .125 and cut steel gussets that would be bent where required bends went past 25 Deg. I heated with my torch, bent to the correct angle, and re-tempered the steel.

I used a split tie point on both lower forward seat struts (slight over kill) but that allowed me to dispersed the extra weight over twice the original area. The original struts dispersed the load entirely in shear on a single bolt on each side, and this has now been doubled.

http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy286/ironcowboy13/IMGP9213.jpg

[ironcowboy]

http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy286/ironcowboy13/IMGP9211.jpg

[ironcowboy]

http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy286/ironcowboy13/IMGP9209.jpg

[ironcowboy]

http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy286/ironcowboy13/IMGP9210.jpg

[ironcowboy]

And some photos of the top edge of the front part of the seat frame…

http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy286/ironcowboy13/IMGP9216.jpg

[ironcowboy]

http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy286/ironcowboy13/IMGP9217.jpg

[ironcowboy]

http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy286/ironcowboy13/IMGP9206.jpg

[ironcowboy]

http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy286/ironcowboy13/IMGP9219.jpg

[ironcowboy]

Well it holds my wife and grandson!

http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy286/ironcowboy13/IMGP9214.jpg

[ironcowboy]

http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy286/ironcowboy13/IMGP9218.jpg

[Gyro_Kai]

Neat. You make remarkable progress in such a short time.

Kai.

[ironcowboy]

Thank you gyro Kai,

That reminds me kids, don’t try this at home, I am a professional, and or I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night. I am semi-retired, and so I have a lot of free time. I work part time to earn $$$ to build my gyro.

PS, observe the 5 year old boy in the photo above (two posts back). I was driving down the road with my wife and the boy was in the back seat. I was talking with my wife about an old TV show “Mel’s Diner” and the waitress Flo use to say, Well Kiss my grits,” in a tangy southern drawl. I tried to imitate her sound and phraseology, and I did quite well I must say… my wife was impressed.

Evidently the boy was equally impressed, as 3 seconds later, and sounding like a deranged parrot, we hear, “Well kiss my grits” waft out of the back seat. It was hilarious... and we heard it over, and over, and over again, like 57 more times. When the boy was later reunited with his mother, she did not think it so funny, but ummm I’m still smiling!

[ironcowboy]

http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy286/ironcowboy13/IMGP9221.jpg

[ironcowboy]

http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy286/ironcowboy13/IMGP9223.jpg

[ironcowboy]

http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy286/ironcowboy13/IMGP9226.jpg

[ironcowboy]

http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy286/ironcowboy13/IMGP9225.jpg

[ironcowboy]

http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy286/ironcowboy13/IMGP9224.jpg

[joe nelson]

Cort,

Sorry for the delay in responding to your post. I've been out of town visiting my youngest son whose military unit is being deployed overseas.

You must have some good skills working with sheet metal! After a day of hand cutting I would have many stitches and the metal would still be rough and jagged...LOL Thanks for the info and keep up the good work! I enjoy watching you work!!!:D

[ironcowboy]

Outside cab framing is installed!

http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy286/ironcowboy13/IMGP9229.jpg

[Caribean_gyro]

sorry to rain in your parade. The cuts on the angle barces will break at the junction.

This is a critical joint that vibration like to anchor around it and mess your day.
ChuckP

[Caribean_gyro]

I try to draw what I am referring to

[ironcowboy]

Awwwwwww…Shizzz… Well… without a good rain storm every now and again, no flower garden will ever become beautiful! You are (absolutely) correct Caribbean Gyro. Sooo I spent from 630AM to just about 10 minutes ago removing, inspecting, and correctly radius-ing every single strut end on the whole machine…

I salute you and thank you for catching that error; it saved a whole lot of work to fix that now, as opposed to later… :)

[Caribean_gyro]

Bensen suggested a small 1.16 drill to create th e intersecting radius. but
With the vib. It break

[ScoutPilot]

Cortland,

Your project is taking amazing shape and your work is top notch. Congratulations on your fine building thread I look forward to seeing new pics of your progress every week and you have yet to let us down. I am amazed at your progress in such a short time keep it going.

Great Job

Chuck

[ironcowboy]

With that said, I have been enlisted to go to Canada to work on my dad’s cabin and so we will be closed for two weeks to clean and repair America’s favorite gyro build thread. I leave on the 10th, and I know that you all might think that I’m really going up to fish; however, bass season does not open until the week after I leave… Waaaaaaa I really have to work… on the cabin this time waaaaaaa. But’ I still have a few more posts to make before I go.

[ScoutPilot]

You know you are going to be thinking about your machine the whole time your gone don't you? The nice thing about taking a break from your project is that when you return you will be even more energized and ready to hit it again.

Have a good time at the cabin and keep the pics coming

Chuck

[ironcowboy]

http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy286/ironcowboy13/IMGP9238.jpg

[ironcowboy]

http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy286/ironcowboy13/IMGP9239.jpg

[ironcowboy]

http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy286/ironcowboy13/IMGP9240.jpg

[ironcowboy]

http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy286/ironcowboy13/IMGP9242.jpg

[ironcowboy]

http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy286/ironcowboy13/IMGP9243.jpg

[ironcowboy]

The instrument panel is just clamped for display... I still have work to do on it.

http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy286/ironcowboy13/IMGP9248.jpg

[ironcowboy]

The instrument panel is used as a support for the windshield, and lies even more forward than shown above, such that you attach a rubber strip to the top of the instrument panel and it bumps up against the windshield frame. This transmits the pressure load from the windscreen thru the instrument panel to the support bar it’s mounted to.

Standard instruments include Airspeed, Altimeter, Rate of Climb, Engine RPM, Oil pressure and Oil temp. In the original plans there was no compass or rotor RPM gauge, I intend to add both a magnetic compass, and rotor RPM gauge, in addition, I’ll have a Sporty’s hand held NAV-COM radio with external antenna mount, and my anywhere map GPS unit. If weight permits, I want full external LED lighting, and a transponder to operate in class C. Many transponders are under 2 pounds…

I’m still thinking about the windshield… The original plans call for plexy glass in multi pieces… I don’t like plexy glass, in multi-pieces.

After close examination of the support frame, I feel that a good option is one sheet of Lexan. I like Lexan and have used it to replace snowmobile and motorcycle windscreens. The stuff is forgiving, bendable / moldable, and can be heat formed to lie in position if care is used. You gently heat the Lexan to about 200F and it becomes reasonably formable… but you don’t want to overheat it. One sheet of Lexan is more water tight then several pieces of plexy glass.

My next major task to build is the windshield framing, and then building the control stick assemblies. I’m opting to build the windshield framing first, because the plans say the stick should not strike the windshield or instrument panel… so they kind of need to be there, so I know exactly where to position the control stick stops to prevent striking those objects. Actually the plans say the control stick should stop approximately 1” from the windshield.

Also I will be making a trip to the Hiller Aviation Museum in San Francisco later this month, which is where the original Hollmann HA-2M is located. It’s currently in the refurbishment room. I have secured permission to take countless photos of it, which I would love to have, so that I can better visualize fabricated parts, and how they fit together. I will ask if I can post some photos of this on the forum here. Plus, my sister-in-law lives up there in that area, and I’ve wanted to drop in and pester her… it’s been awhile since I pestered her. Maybe she can be a flight attendant on my gyro (she is a United flight attendant) …I could use a flight attendant on my gyro, I really could… She could serve me coffee and tell herself the captain has illuminated the fasten seatbelt sign. I can visualize that…

[okikuma]

Hey Cort,

The orginal Hollmann HA-2M has a compass. It is mounted at eye level on upper horizontal cross brace of the front windshield. Take a look.

http://hillermuseum.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/sportster-gyroplane.jpg

Notice you can clearly see the compass in the upper center of the windshield.

Have fun on your trip!

Wayne

[WHY]

Side note on instruments, article a long time ago in a EAA magazine pointed out that it was not a good idea to have "protruding " instruments or instruments free standing at eye level in case of "crash"

Tony

[ironcowboy]

Well, that puts new meaning into the idea looking at your instruments...

[okikuma]

Hi Cort,

I'm having withdraws! Get back to work on the Sportster soon! LOL

Hope you had a great time at your Dad's cabin working and all.

Wayne

[Friendly]

I can't believe I have missed this thread until a few minutes ago. Really clean work, nice photos of each step. Threads like this just make you want to build one with you. I am glad I got to go thru the whole thing at one sitting. I hate to wait till next week to see what s happing. Great Build Thread!!!!

[ScoutPilot]

Hey Cort,

Have you given any thought about attending Oshkosh? If you make it to Air Venture 2010 make sure and look us up. Hopefully you will be able to fly with us next year, looking forward to your latest pics and progress.

Best regards,

Chuck Freese
President
Minnesota Rotorcraft Club
PRA Chapter 17

[ironcowboy]

Howdy all,

Back from Canada, mission accomplished. Two landings and the bad spot on the porch are replaced; the rest will get done next summer.

I may actually get up to Oshkosh next year…

So I gotta call Aircraft Spruce in the morning about my 1x1x.065 aluminum bar that I need to form the window framing… it’s been on back order for 1 month! [/IMG]:rant: But I need it!

[IMG]http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy286/ironcowboy13/IMGP9258.jpg

[ironcowboy]

http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy286/ironcowboy13/IMGP9259.jpg

[okikuma]

Hi Cort,

Looking good there on the porch and fine work you performed. Glad to read you're back.

Take a look at Gyro Mike's post on the Marchetti Avenger. Nice pictures to compare how the Avenger is built vs the Sportster.

www.gyromike.com

Wayne

[All_In]

Glad that job is done, good man!

Now we can get back to building...

[ironcowboy]

Well, I ordered all the parts I need to craft the control sticks and control frame today! Danged 1" by 1.25" 2024T3 strap is still AWOL... I really wanna start working on the cabin enclosure... but I kind of need to build both items at the same time. Work will resume late this week... say did you know it's 109F outside! Even at sea level the DA is like 3500MSL...Dude! What is the melting temp of 6061?

That Marchetti is pretty cool, and looks a lot like mine, that’s for sure. Thanks

[ironcowboy]

I’ve been back in the workshop the last few mornings. I get run out by about 11AM due to the heat, it’s getting up into the 110F range, and it’s usually over about 95 by that time…

I’ve started on the pilot and copilot flight control stick assembly. The stick actually connects to a frame that is welded roughly into a square. The square frame has two pivot points (one on each end) that attach to the center on top of the keel bar. This square frame connects the flight control to the push rods that drive the articulation of the rotor hub for roll and pitch. I’ll attach a photo sent to me by okizuma, of another HA-2M that shows this assembly pretty well.

Using .063 thick 4130 steel, I’ve cut out the 4 steel plate mounting plates that will weld to the ends of the frame that will attach and hold split pillow blocks, and I’ve cut out two bell cranks. These parts were entirely cut out and formed by hand using a Hacksaw, Dremmel, Bench grinder Drill press with hole saw, and a hand file.

http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy286/ironcowboy13/IMGP9271.jpg

[ironcowboy]

I traced around the full size drawing...

http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy286/ironcowboy13/IMGP9266.jpg

[ironcowboy]

And cut it out

http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy286/ironcowboy13/IMGP9267.jpg

[ironcowboy]

http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy286/ironcowboy13/IMGP9269.jpg

[ironcowboy]

Wa-laaaa

http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy286/ironcowboy13/IMGP9272.jpg

[ironcowboy]

This is what the stick control will look like when finished :) I have a lot of little steel parts to cut out and then it get welded and bolted together... lots of work for what appears to be little progress...

http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy286/ironcowboy13/68_3.jpg

[okikuma]

Hi Cort,

Finally! LOL My withdrawls are gone! LOL Great progress and work as usual!

About the heat, you can always work through the night. I've know many auto and aircraft mechanics that do this during the summer in the desert.

Wayne

[ironcowboy]

Does anyone know a good aircraft welder? I’m going to need someone to gas weld some 4130 steel for me pretty soon. (The in cabin portion of my flight control system) I don’t weld so well myself… I can weld, mind you, but the metal just beads ugly on me. I need professional help!

[okikuma]

Hi Cort,

Check with the following:

Any local EAA Chapter there in Palm Springs/Palm Desert area (become a member of the EAA if you haven't already done so).

Palm Springs Air Museum

Members of Civil Air Patrol Sq 11

EAA Chapter 1 at Flabob Airport on the otherside of the Banning Pass from where you are. (most likely the best bet)

Any one of these places will have someone willing to help you out with the welding for a small fee, donation, trade, our just out of the goodness of their hearts in helping out a fellow aviator/builder.

Wayne

[ironcowboy]

Important safety tip! Don’t cut or grind 4130 steel plate wearing shorts and sandals… Especially if the plate is not secure to a solid work surface!

I have joined the EAA. Holly crap, I just realized that I’m building an aircraft, a unique aircraft… What have I done!

Incidentally, in regard to the above safety warning, I did not hurt myself, I almost hurt myself… I was being unsafe in the safest way I could, and completely avoided injury. So I thought I’d toss out a random safety warning.

[ironcowboy]

I am joining EAA # 1 on Saturday, Yes.

[ironcowboy]

I’ve been making slow progress on the little steel parts (that don’t photograph well) that comprise the flight control system in the cabin. Using only basic hand tools works, but is very slow. …Especially when you miss drill a linkage and have to completely re-fabricate it. Oh well… that’s the airplane tax.

I went to the EAA chapter 1 meeting at Flabob airport yesterday and joined up. I met a man named Rodger; I forget his last name now. He owns the tooling to make rotor blades that he acquired after Ken Brock’s Death. I can’t use them on my gyro, the chord span is too small, but Rodger did say that we could use them, we’d just have to designs a 4 blade rotor hub; however, in the end we both agreed that 8.5 Cord sport copter blades would be the best way to go. Rodger has like 5 gyrocopters in various conditions sitting in the shop.

Rodger know as guy who knows a guy who knows a guy with a good usable Lycoming 0-320 engine…

Rodger built a six cylinder 125 HP (radial) McCullough turbo charged engine. It’s way cool! Why did I not have my camera handy…

Rodger is a welding fool! He welds everything… he’s even developed a technique to weld wood beams and bars together; you really have to see it to believe it!!! He calls his “wood welding” technique “gluing” hahahahahahah… Got ya….

But on a serious note, I needed a person to weld and now have that problem solved. I’ll be done grinding 4130 steel parts within the next week, or so, and will be ready to spend a day in the welding shop with Rodger, and that will give me a huge step forward on a big task that seems so insignificant towards observable forward progress… Why is it that the little things take so long to accomplish and the big stuff comes together so fast? There must be a mathematics formula to quantify this as an expression.

[ironcowboy]

Here are photos of the bell cranks on a mock up shaft. These bell cranks are part of the interface between the control sticks and the pushrods that operate the rotor head. They mount under the pilot and passenger seats and the pushrods run up behind the firewall outside the cabin enclosure. The real shaft will be about 21.75 inches long, and then it gets welded. I have about two more mornings worth cutting pipe and will be ready for welding… Yes! 109F this afternoon in the shop, its beer o’clock!

http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy286/ironcowboy13/IMGP9281.jpg

[ironcowboy]

http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy286/ironcowboy13/IMGP9282.jpg

[ironcowboy]

http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy286/ironcowboy13/IMGP9283.jpg

[ironcowboy]

http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy286/ironcowboy13/IMGP9284.jpg

[Caribean_gyro]

suggestion on the tubes that will be hidden from inspection or by a pod. I sued LP3 corrosion block. I use a bit of acetone or mineral spirit to dilute it. fill part of the alum or chrome molly tube. plug one side and shake the lp3 oli around. . This will give you a crrosion block inside the tubes we never check.

Now if you are going to chrome or anodize anything, do this process after the chrome. the plating shop will get a contamined tank when they clean strip the parts prior plating.

Once it dries it feels hard and dry. looks as a varnish coat.

chuckp

[okikuma]

Looking good Cort!

The gentleman you mentioned that posseses the Ken Brock tooling I believe is Rodger Farnes. Somewhere, I have a picture of that two stroke 6 cylinder radial engine with Mac cylinders that Rodger brought to display at El Mirage one year. As soon as I find it, I'll download it to this forum.

Wayne

[ironcowboy]

Anyone know where to get corrosion block LP-3? I was using straight linseed oil to coat the inside of all steel pipes, but I was not too sure about the residual ability of that oil. Linseed oil is what Mr Holloman used, but well…corrosion inhibitors have come a long way since 1975. IS LP-3 a trade name? Is it a grease, oil, spray? Thanks for any info about it.

On a positive note, my aluminum bar stock has arrived, so I can begin cabin enclosure/windshield framing… Hea!

[Caribean_gyro]

aircraft spruce hast it. remember lp3 is corrosion block and dry hard as varnish. LP2 is a lubricant that wont dry out.

some person use Corrosion X as lubricant . But I use it in a Yak55 engine and it seems is conductive. Becasue I lost all the spark. I had to wash the engine again with mineral spirit and let it dry.

[ironcowboy]

Thank you CG,

Good to know that Corrosion X is conductive… that seems counterproductive to corrosion control… Corrosion requires an agent to act as an electrolyte or conductor, such as but not limited to: sea salt spray, road salt agents and good old fashioned water and dirt or grime. If a “corrosion preventative” facilitates the movement of metal ions, that is not ideal. Especially where the electrolytic material is in a continuous layer over different types of metal, as this can aggravate dissimilar metal corrosion, uniform etch and pitting.

I will get me so lp3.

Thanks for the advise

[ironcowboy]

Well today I finished the last fabrication required before welding of the pilot and passenger control stick system, or the steel parts anyway… I need to bend and heli-arch a couple of aluminum parts.

I will begin work on the cabin enclosure this week, and this is something that I can take photos of…

[ironcowboy]

Aft cabin roof support is installed.

http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy286/ironcowboy13/IMGP9289.jpg

[ironcowboy]

The stringers that comprise the cabin windshield are 2024 structural aluminum. 1.25 x 0.65

The plans have a 1/1 drawing of the correct radius bend to make at all enclosure points. The radius is the same at all points. I took a piece of ¾ plywood and traced out the radius and cut it out, to give me a good usable gauge as I formed my bends in the stringers.

http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy286/ironcowboy13/IMGP9290.jpg

[ironcowboy]

Using a Costco radius forming machine (foot stool with 1/2" dia pipe knee guard seen below) I have in my shop, I slowly began to bend the radius and constantly checked against my wood template and 1/1 drawing.

http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy286/ironcowboy13/IMGP9293.jpg

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[ironcowboy]

At last, my radius were correct and the holes marked, drilled and secured into position. The aft cabin roof is a 3 part assembly, as you can tell. the center angle, and left and right formed stringers All the remaining horizontal stringers are 1 part assembles

http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy286/ironcowboy13/IMGP9296.jpg

[ironcowboy]

The technique for forming the one part assembly is similar; however, the trick is to know exactly where to begin your second bend so as to have a perfectly symmetrical product once finished that is the exact correct lenght and width.

I measured the exact width of the cabin, and then took a long stringer and formed one end to the correct radius. I placed this on my bench and traced it onto the wood stopping at ½ of the width I needed. I flipped my stringer over and traced the other ½ onto the table, and wholla…

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[ironcowboy]

The top two stringers are now installed…

Tomorrow, I hope to form and install the remaining horizontal stringers

The original design for these stringers was to use Plexiglas as the windshield. I will NOT be using plexy glass, but instead using Lexan, in one large sheet slowly and lovingly formed, cut and clamped into place. Lexan is FAR superior to plexy glass, and I should be able to smack a goose with no real damage. I may cut out small spacer tabs 0.65 or 0.13 thick as required, to shim as needed between the stringers and the windshield at bolt locations. I’ll play this by ear as I begin to lay the Lexan into position, probably next month.

I would like to use graphite composite in place of all fiber glass fairings, MUCH lighter… does anyone know a good book for learning composite building?

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[scottessex]

Cortland, nice progress.
were you ever at Pope AFB?
I was a C-130 crew chief at Hickam HI 85-87
And Pope NC from 87-91.

[Gyro_Kai]

Looking great. You are progressing fast. Now you can just recognize the characteristic shape.

Kai

[PalmPilot]

Hey Cort, "Awesome job"!... Kinda reminds me of a Hiller UH12B model, nice!... BTW, I have a costco machine too, works great as a balancer also... :)

Mike

[ironcowboy]

As you can see, the cabin enclosure is starting to come together.

Yes, now it’s looking like a real HA-2M Hamster

Palm Pilot, I like your signature line… I combined Cyclic and Joystick… I call my control mechanism a cycostick. It’s pronounced as psycho-stick…

Sorry Scott, I was not in the C-130 world until just after 9-11 and only went to POPE to throw men out the back of my airplane. You know when I was a kid my dad would back-hand in the seat for tossing trash out the window of the car as we whizzed down the interstate… Then when I joined the USAF C-130 world, the government paid me to toss stuff out the back of a moving airplane.

I gotta tell you this story real quick. The C-130 and the maintenance man are like a marriage. The mechanic lovingly cares for her, and puts so much time an effort into keeping her in tip-top shape. He is dedicated to her, and spends countless hours with her getting her just right. She is beautiful and he is dedicated and faithful.

Then, at sun down, we aircrew boys show up, swipe the logbook, check her out real close, and we really like what we see… man is she smooth! We stuff her so full of cargo, she wants to bust open at the seams. We take her for a ride, a looooong ride. We bang, jostle and pound the holly hell out of her all night long. We make her perform like she was made to perform, and push her right to her limits, actually a little over her limits… to the point we break something down there on her insides. She limps back home with us, and we dump her hot tired broken chassis on the driveway. We give each other high-5’s, and laugh and go huah huah huah, and chest bumps as we re-live last nights grand adventures. We point out ALL of her flaws to the poor maintenance man.

As we walk away, I look over my shoulder, and I think I see a tear drop on his cheek in the morning sun light. Oh never mind him, look at my C-130, she is gorgeous, really hot! I blow her a kiss, and I whisper a thank you to her, and tell her how much fun I had last night. See you again tomorrow night my love I say… The mechanic takes a few hours to forgive her; but then, once again he begins his nurturing and loving, cleaning her up, and fixing her wounds and bruises. He really really cares for her… but I’ll be back tomorrow night, and she will leave him once again to party all night long with the boys.

This is why USAF mechanics hate pilots and aircrew… He really loves his C-130, and can’t understand why she always seems to stray… The C-130 is a really bad girl, and us aircrew boys know it ;)

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[scottessex]

Well said Cort, at least you seem like an aircrew member that understands.. :)

And I am sure that you noticed who's name is on the side of the aircraft....
The crew chiefs name, not the pilots. :D

[ironcowboy]

I signed my name on the inside...where it counts, way up high in the tail above the ramp door. hahahahah... Say did you guys ever play the hubcap game with a new co-pilots? I swear it takes new Lieutenants like 2 years on average to figure out that game.

[scottessex]

We played a lot of games with the new LT's. :D

[ironcowboy]

I got some photos of sleeping lieutenants that were taken right before all manner of chaos and pandemonium broke loose. Man it’s a real hoot to watch people wake up absolutely terrified! Especially in a combat zone, when you are more on edge than normal. It’s a wonder more troops don’t have PTSD. You know in hind sight, we must have been pretty darn tired to curl up on a nice comfy slab of hot concrete to take naps… Hope you like the Herk photos; this was taken at Ballad AB Iraq, prepping for a CDS air drop off the Syrian Border to resupply remote Army troops back in 05.


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PS, It took me all these years to notice the sleeping LT did not secure his side arm in the gun box, lucky the captain did not get shot!

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[ironcowboy]

The cabin roof and most of the forward cabin enclosure stringers are now properly installed and snugly bolted together. Now I have to install a couple more radius stringers down near the instrument panel, and install the instrument panel, and mount tube. The instrument panel mount tube is also the carb heat control mount location.

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MY GYRO IS MADE IN USA

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[ironcowboy]

OK so I’m just about done with the major portion of the cabin enclosure. I am now right at 205 hours. I round my hours up or down to the nearest hour, it all averages out in the end… I have spent right at $3300 for all parts.

This does not include tools and equipment such as saws saw blades, and stuff like that.

Of that $3300 this includes shipping, handling and taxes. I happen to live in California with high taxes and Aircraft Spruce and Specialty Company is located in CA, so I get taxed at like 8.25%

[ironcowboy]

Tomorrow I will be driving over to Aircraft Spruce and Specialty Company in Corona CA to obtain the Lexan sheets for the windshield. I think I might also get a composite material starter/learning kit too…

[okikuma]

Hi Cort,

Great progress! Looking great! You'll be flying in no time!

I especially like the "Sandbox pictures." The faces change, the uniforms change, the war zones change, but the Esprit de Corps and the comradeship remains the same. The sleeping airmen on the ramp is one of those things that has and always will remain the same from the Revolutionary War to present, napping during down time, when you can, where ever you can.

Wayne

[ironcowboy]

I made a pilgrimage to Aircraft Spruce and Specialty Company West, Corona CA, a place that all home builders must go to once in a life time… I think it’s a commandment somewhere. I took my ""grand daughter"" with me. We had to get up very early to get over there and back, as I had a 3PM appointment.

I obtained .060 Polycarbonate Lexan for the windshield, special drill bits for Lexan, a correct front tire, I needed a lamb tire which is a smaller diameter then what I originally purchased, and I got the composite material learner kit. Tomorrow I will continue working on the windshield, instrument panel and cabin framing.

I attached a photo of my granddaughter by the front sign, and a second photo of her a bit later; she was very tired in the second photo, probably for getting up so early, har har har

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[All_In]

"she was very tired in the second photo"

Very funny Cort, and creative...

[ironcowboy]

I started hanging the windshield yesterday. The windshield is one large piece of .060 “Lexan” polycarbonate. This is really durable stuff, very flexible and bendable. It is not in anyway brittle, nor will it crack. The windshield is held in place via screws and pop rivets, and I can tell that it will be very solid when completely installed. I can say that the width of the aircraft makes it very tight to get a single 48” wide piece to cover. It’s a tight fit width wise… Soooo make sure you get your cabin exactly 36 wide and the radius of your stringers is EXACTY to plan specs...

My present aircraft weight is… OMG, I just said that my present aircraft weight is… which means it’s really an aircraft, (giddy excitement) Anyway, I’m now at 177 pounds. This weight includes most of the in-cabin cyclic and control structure, like 90% of it, and the instrument panel. My target weight is 550 on the mains and 0 pounds +- 8 pounds on the nose gear, (without rotor hub or blades installed.)

Allowing for 268 pounds for the engine, this leaves me right about 115 pounds of stuff to hang on the airplane to include, but not limited to… Engine mount, belly skin, nose faring, eyebrow fairings, engine fairings, instruments, horizontal and vertical stabilizer and control cable, brake master cylinder, fluid and lines, pre-rotator assembly, fuel lines, vales and throttle and mixture control. That’s a lot of stuff yet, but I think I can get her done on the low side of 550 pounds, by use of carbon fiber in the firings, or formed alumimum.


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[okikuma]

Great photos Cort. You're grandaughter is too cute with that tire. That's a memory to share at her wedding reception!

You know what is the difference between an Airman and a 2nd Lt? The Airman has been promoted once!

Wayne

[scottessex]

I have an announcement to make about aircraft spruce in about a week, stay tuned. :)

[ironcowboy]

50% off all items in stock, I hope...

[ironcowboy]

The instrument panel is mounted in the required location. I still have work to do on it, but that is it's correct location.

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[ironcowboy]

I just had a totally random builders thought. In stead of installing aluminum belly skin, what if a put a piece of polycarbonate Lexan there in stead? It would be like a glass bottom airplane, dude that might be cool.

[okikuma]

Hi Cort,

Interesting idea however you might consider a few things.

The aluminum bottom of the cockpit enclosure possesses structural strength for the same that lexan might lack. Lexan might weigh more and be labor intensive to clean and keep clear and will outweigh the benefit to see just below your legs and feet.

I do have a different suggestion.

I've been toying with an alternate idea that will give a nice ground plane for a comm antenna. The flat center location of the windscreen from the top of the instrument panel down to the keel. If in that location was placed a rectangle sheet of aluminum instead of Lexan (the visibility I suspect is minimal from the instrument panel down to the keel anyway). Then, a bent 45 degree comm antenna could be placed in the center of that sheet of aluminum with majority of the element situated vertically. That would give the antenna great omnidirectional polarization of the signal. At the top of the antenna, a piece of yarn could be located to double as a yaw string. The only other location for an antenna is on the belly, and it would have to be bent 90 degrees to clear the ground.

Again, just a thought.

Wayne

[ironcowboy]

Well, the windshield is almost on now. Sadly, I got it a tiny bit crooked… Luckily, no one will notice if I fabricate a small aluminum external trim strip, which I’m suppose to do anyway around the door openings. It will be totally concealed, and it’s not off enough to cause any kind of a security to the aircraft problem. This baby is tight!

Wayne, I also had thought of cropping the windshield below the instrument panel and placing an aluminum skin there. I had also though of installing a string yaw indicator. I’m not sure why I had that idea, except to give my Sportster the custom look. And I can say that the Lexan is gotta be twice the Wight of 0.40 aluminum skin. I’d have to fabricate another aluminum stringer to place below the windshield, but that is no big deal, it would just give the windshield a little extra beef. I think I’d come out about even on weight, after all is said and done.

I will be flying with a Sporty’s hand held Nav com, and wanted to install an external antenna. Now you got my gears grinding.

I’ve also been thinking about going with a glass instrument panel. I like the Dynon D10A. It’s compact enough that I can fit it into my instrument pod, and it would combine the airspeed, altimeter and compass all into one single instrument. It would allow enough extra room for a rotor RPM, EGT, Oil PSI, master, ignition and lighting switch’s. It has an altitude encoder output for a transponder. The entire unit weights under 2 pounds, which would save weight from analog gauges. It’s $2200, or about the price of new analog gauges, once you add them all up. I will also fly with my GPS unit that operates independently and would make a great (back up) magnetic direction/heading indicator which incidentally, I will panel mount into the instrument pod as well. It’s only 6.25” Wide by 4.5” High. I may end up putting the master switch, lighting and circuit breakers into a small panel below instrument panel, IDK yet…

In regard to the antenna, does the ground plane need to be aluminum, would the windshield itself work?

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[okikuma]

Hi Cort,

The ground plane needs to be of a conductive metal. Since the aircraft is aluminum that's the best one to continue with.

Without getting too technical, a ground plane is needed to give the maximum obtainable output of signal power out of a 1/4 wave antenna with minimal return "noise" as reflective power back down the unbalance coaxial cable (SWR - signal to noise ratio) and into the radio. Without a ground plane or too small of one will send most of the power back into the radio and ruin your radio and day.

In most instances, the groundplane size should be at least the length of the antenna equally in all directions where the antenna is mounted. Think of a circle with an antenna mounted in the center with the radius of the circle at least equal to the antenna length as an example. In reality, any aluminum skin surface of an aircraft often exceeds this minimum requirement.

With the Sportster, the rectangle piece I mention previously, will suffice just fine as an antenna ground plane even though the width might be less than the antenna length, the length of the aluminum will make up the difference along with the rest of the aluminum of the aircraft that will be attached to it by way of the enclosure and rest of the airframe.

Now, if you are planning on using the Dynon D10A, you might need not to follow my idea and revert to mount the comm antenna on the belly. This is because of the possibility of the antenna being to close to the electronic instrument and causing interference when you transmit. With steam guages, there's no issue.

Never the less, I'm quite impressed with your progress and quality of workmanship.

Wayne

[ironcowboy]

Update on flight instruments and GPS.

Dynon EFIS D6 is $1600. Panel size is 4.90 Wide by 3.39 tall. The unit is 6.850” deep

The Anywhere Travel GPS docking station is 6.25” wide by 4.5” tall. The docking station is $100 not including the DC power supply. Due to location I won’t need an external antenna for the GPS, as view of the sky is unrestricted.

I took photos of the actual external dimensions of both units and taped them into position. As you can see, I still have enough room to wedge stuff into the panel. The remaining minimum gauges are, Oil PSI, Oil Temp and engine tachometer.

My fuel quantity gages are seat mounted sight tubes

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[ironcowboy]

I can mount the remote compass sensor in the nose on the keel tube where I’m pointing.

http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy286/ironcowboy13/IMGP9351.jpg

[ironcowboy]

If necessary (most likely will be) I can install a strip panel below the main instrument panel for circuit breakers and lighting switches. I could also mount fuel valves on the lower panel, down below the electrical equipment.

http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy286/ironcowboy13/IMGP9350.jpg

[ironcowboy]

Well, my present thought and after much more humming and hawing about it, is to go with the Dynon Flight Deck 180, combination EFS/EMS glass panel. This will combine all required instruments into a lightweight package with only the circuit breakers and switches remaining, and I have room on the main panel to actually mount them. But I don’t have room for my GPS; however, I can easily manufacture a small mount bracket to place my GPS up high as an overhead display. I can easily run the power wire secured in clamps down the windshield framing to the back of the instrument panel. All instruments combined will weigh 4 pounds, which includes the GPS unit and mount. This of course does not account for pitot tubes, or wires, but that is kind of already factored into the weight of the aircraft.


Basic prices and ball park weights of gauges that the EFS/EMS replaces

Altimeter $495 1.4 pounds
Airspeed $495 .6 pounds
Compass $267 .6 pounds
EGT $205 .1 pounds
Cyl temp $212 .1 pounds
Hour meter $35 .1 pounds
Oil PSI/Temp $642 .5 pounds
Fuel PSI $60 .25 pounds
Vertical Speed $132 1 Pounds
Tachometer $113 .5 pounds
Volt meter $131 .1 pounds

All this weight adds up to about 5 .5 pounds at the VERY minimum, and there is no way I could wedge all this into my instrument pod. And This all adds up to over $2600 for middle of the road new gauges of decent quality.

The Dynon Flight Deck D180 cost $3200 and includes all the above gauges if you get the probes and sensors. Seems like a no brainer, and my instrument panel will be well enough protected from occasional rain we get here in the desert.

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[okikuma]

Hi Cort,

Locating the remote compass sensor close to the four bolts and the rudder pedal assembly in the picture might cause interference because of the ferris metal located near by. Check with the installation manual and the factory.

I like reading about your ideas and watch how you accomplish your goals.

Wayne

[animal]

wow somehow I had missed this Build,you have done a great job in a short time.
that is really a good looking machine so far.
I will be keeping a better eye on this build.

I always thought the HA-2M was a cool design and it is a classic.

And yep you are building a real aircraft that should give you many hours of flying fun. I was surprised how much the plans and manuals cost.
but it looks like they are very detailed.

[ironcowboy]

Wellpers, today I fabricated and installed an overhead bracket to hold my Anywhere Travel ATC GPS unit. It came out pretty good, and it’s above my eye level, even above my head level. We plan to wear flight helmets shields when we fly, so that is an added safety in the event of a crash, don’t want permanent GPS vision if you know what I mean. Don’t get me wrong, I love a quality GPS, just not located 2 inches inside my forehead.

The bracket is 0.040 aluminum, and it’s stout enough to hold the GPS very easily.

Well Okikuma, you are probably correct… I’ll read the directions, dang it!

Animal, the plans are quite detailed all in all, like 38 pages of scaled prints. I also like the looks and style of the HA-2M as well. The visibility is gonna be awesome for a mostly enclosed aircraft.

I’m starting to think about fabricating the composite nose cone and eyebrow covers. I’m making mental notes at this point, and poking around at the attachment points and visualizing me mounting and carving out polyurethane blocks to use as a plug. I have a really good quality beginners kit that was designed by Rutan for the EZ series aircraft. It teaches you exactly how to build structural and non structural composite parts. I don’t need to build structural parts for this aircraft, but it’s cool to know that I can build sandwich layered structural parts. Anyway, just building up the basic non structural nacelle and faring parts will be challenging enough for me.

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[scottessex]

Cort, you are doing a fine job, just one suggestion....Could you buy a nice bastard file, or deburing tool and clean up the edges of your cuts?
Just an observation, working as an A&P we never leave a sharp or rough edge on anything, besides it looks better and reduces the chances for stress concentrations at corners etc.
Make it Smooth-baby-smooth. :)

[StanFoster]

Cort- This thread had escaped me as well. You are doing a lot of manufacturing....way to go. Another nice build I will have to tune into from now on.



Stan

[Gyro_Kai]

Yes, I said it before but this thread is most interesting and awe inspiring. You do great and make great progress on every post and I'm always thrilled when this thread shows up on the "new posts" list.

Kai.

[ironcowboy]

I have begun working on my eyebrow cap on the right side of the gyro. The first step is to make a negative impression of the cap area, so that I can lay up fiberglass inside the negative impression. To begin, first I affixed some hardware cloth, and they I lay papier-mâché into the area to fill it up to nearly flush. Then I will place some plastic tight across the papered up area. The papier-mâché is helpful in supporting the plastic when the weight of the polyurethane foam is applied in the next step.

After this is complete, I will apply polyurethane expandable foam over this entire area. Once the foam hardens, I have a true to shape foam casting of my gyros cab corner. Then I can lay up fiber glass inside the negative casting after placing wax paper in the negative foam form. Once hardened, I can remove the fiberglass layup that is formed in the exact shape as the actual aircraft cab corner and gently trim to exact dimensions and finish/paint. This will take me at least three or four days to complete.

Scott… you said bastard, ummmmm I’m telling mom! But you are correct; I need to polish the rough edges better. It’s just that I get so excited once it’s cut out, I just want to slap it on the airplane, like now mister!

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[Caribean_gyro]

my suggestion, use brass screws on Compas mounting. also some suggestion to save some skin just in case you bump in to the panel

[ironcowboy]

I began to apply the polyurethane foam this morning. You gotta be really carful at this point. Make sure you secure the plastic to the aircraft WELL before you apply foam. The foam has enough weight that the plastic will slide right off if not secured to the aircraft, and you really don’t want to clean wet poly foam off the garage floor! Even the foam has enough weight that it will sag slowly especially in the vertical orientation, and you can actually support it with a few masking tape strips. Using standard STUFF rigid foam found at Lowes or Home depot apply one layer over the area you want to cover. Overlap by at least 2 inches in all directions. Start small; the first layer should only be a bead about ½ inch thick. It will expand up to about 2 inches, or more as it cures. The mold will eventually be at least three layers thick, with two, ¼ square hardware cloth wire reinforcing layers sandwiched between the three foam layers. This will give you a nice durable negative impression mold when complete.

http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy286/ironcowboy13/IMGP9371.jpg

http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy286/ironcowboy13/IMGP9374.jpg

http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy286/ironcowboy13/IMGP9377.jpg

http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy286/ironcowboy13/IMGP9375.jpg

[ironcowboy]

Well for some reason my foam is not forming correctly, (its de-cupping) I think it’s the 108F temperature heat in the garage… I may need to do the double papier-mâché method. But it may need to wait a few days, as my granddaughter’s appendix ruptured last night, and I’ve been in the hospital all day, man is she in pain…

[okikuma]

Hi Cort,

First off, I hope all is well with your grandaughter and she will recover quickly and completely. I know you all are praying and waiting.

When you get back to your project, you might want to kill me for suggesting this one.

Take a piece of single ply cardstock (the kind that is in the center of a new dress shirt) and form around the "eyebrow" and then cut to shape to fit and use as a template. Cut some Lexan to the shape of the template. Then take your Lexan piece and place it outside in the Rancho Mirage sun to soften it up, gently form the shape you desire and presto, a quick clear eyebrow panel.

I bet it would work well and save some time.

Wayne

[ironcowboy]

My little copilot is still in the hospital, where I’ve spent the last 5 nights. Hopefully she will be out tomorrow

Okikuma… I was thinking of heating Lexan and doing exactly that on those long nights in the hospital this week. I’m sure as heck gonna try it… I’d prefer a clear panel, for increased visibility anyway.

[ironcowboy]

Can you believe that the girl is STILL in the hospital! She had a very bad infection of the Peritoneal membranes… She should be out today however… WOW.

[joe nelson]

Cort,

We'll keep your little co-pilot in our prayers. At her age, a long hospital stay is very hard. She should be out supervising her grandpa!

[okikuma]

Hi Cort,

Glad to read that your little co-pilot is recovering, though slowly. Thanks to the good Lord that she has been taken care of very well and not been released too early. Peritonitis is a very serious infection, especially for a young child. You know well that it's no fun being in a hospital for any length of time. You're a good Grandpa Cort.

Wayne

[JRB549]

I'm sorry I have to chime in here. I've read this entire thread and looked at the pic's and I feel I must say this build scares the hell out of me. No one will tell me the cheekplates from mast to keel are correct and many other points of contact. Your money, your time, your build. I cant see kudo for this. I'm surprised others here have not called it for what it is and will become.

[animal]

I'm sorry I have to chime in here. I've read this entire thread and looked at the pic's and I feel I must say this build scares the hell out of me. No one will tell me the cheekplates from mast to keel are correct and many other points of contact. Your money, your time, your build. I cant see kudo for this. I'm surprised others here have not called it for what it is and will become.

Wow I had not noticed that, yeah those plates are scary, I would for sure make new stronger ones, surely that is not how that plans show them.

if it is I think I would look over those plans for other weak design area. 4 bolts are for sure not strong enough to hold all that weight and stress. a heavy 2 place like that needs some good heavy beefy mast the keel plates.

[ironcowboy]

JRB549 and Animal

You never need to apologize for chiming into this thread with concerns. That is what I love about the peer review process, Humm too bad the politicians at the Hadley Climatic Unit on the atmospheric research of global warming don’t have a valid peer review process (global warming is 98% a cash and power transfer scam IMHO) , ahhh but I digress…

Thank you both for chiming in… :)

You know, I was thinking this too, but this is exactly to design specs as shown, for size, thickness, location and material.

My question back is this. Could this be correct, because of the enclosed cabin, and that there is more than one point where weight is carried / transmitted vertically to the rotor mast within the aircraft. Actually the total weight of the aircraft and occupants is transmitted to the rotor mast at 4 separate points or attachments along the rotor mast.

This situation may be different than many single or two place open cockpit gyros, where suspended weight is transmitted at only one or maybe two places.

Does any one have photos of the Avenger cheek plate setup?

I could make larger cheek plates that’s not a problem. Larger meaning longer and taller so as to allow more places for bolts to pass through. (Thicker) cheek plates would not seem to make any substantial difference when the bolt is in direct shear. It is absolutely true that less weight per bolt hole is carried by addition of more bolts in pure shear. More bolts divided by the same weight= less pounds per bolt and therefore less stress per bolt hole.

Does any one know from an engineering prospecting, what is the maximum weight in pounds that should be placed in shear for a ¼ inch dia bolt in .125 6061T6 Aluminum is?

I could test it by building an identical mock up and trying to stretch it apart. I like destructive testing :) But I'm the kind of guy that would want to create the exact environment during testing that the joint would face in real world service. Vibrations, loads, stresses and temperatures.

In closing, thank you two guys for voicing the concerns of your observations.

PS the girl is out of the Hospital... 16 days for a ruptured appendix and resulting infection

[Passin' Thru]

Hey Cort, First it’s good to hear the little girl is out of the hospital and on the mend.

Next, I commend you for the graceful manner in which you accept criticism. An open and objective mind is hard to find.

“Could this be correct, because of the enclosed cabin, and that there is more than one point where weight is carried / transmitted vertically to the rotor mast within the aircraft. Actually the total weight of the aircraft and occupants is transmitted to the rotor mast at 4 separate points or attachments along the rotor mast.”

Good analysis. Load distribution across multiple attach points is difficult to see in photographs when the whole is not immediately visible. This is not a new, unproven design. A number of them have been successfully built and flown. I’m sure that any faults or weaknesses found would have been noted in later drawings.

One problem with us “eye-ball engineers” is we don’t know how strong something needs to be, how strong it is, or how to make it strong enough with reasonable margins. But, in spite of the often harsh tones, we do have the best of intentions.:sorry:

Carry on! :yo:

[StanFoster]

Cort- Glad to hear your grandaughter is out of the hospital. This is an interesting process seeing a cabin mould being made. I would love rto try that someday. For now I am rat holing bits of information for future use. Stan

[ironcowboy]

A very dear friend of mine was a mechanical engineer trained at General Motors Institute of Flint Michigan, and who worked at Allison Engine Company designing compressor stage turbine blades for jet engines; however, he was tragically killed when he drank a few beers and tried riding a snowmobile. Book smart like you have no idea, but common sense rules don’t tolerate violation for long. How could such a smart man make such a dumb mistake? Couldn’t he see it coming? Er… well I guess he did not see it coming… It’s what you don’t see coming that most often gets you, and the more eyes looking over my build the more I see…

Anyway, I have heard him, and other great engineers say something to the effect that anyone one can build something strong; but engineering is trying to figure out how to make it lite and strong.

Now I am not an engineer, I do have a degree in Mechanical Technology and another one in Aviation Operations with a concentration in the study of imposed loads, so by default I well understand the Engineer’s psychology. (Have you ever noticed that most engineers are moderately psycho?) But anyway, like I said I don’t want to end up like my dear friend Steve, a very smart and a very dead guy… so the observation by JRB549 and animal piqued my radar as to me missing the obvious.

I know that this design of Mr Martin has several hundred versions flying world wide and the design has been flying for coming up on 40 years. That is a respectable accomplishment.

In regard to the other attach points along the rotor shaft, two of those joints have the bolt passing front to back through the 4” portion of the 2x4 rotor mast beam. At those joints, the bolt bears on 4 separate areas of 0.125 Aluminum for a (flat) area of .125*4 or ½ Inch of solid aluminum. With two joints this is 1” of aluminum those bolts at those two joints collectively pass thru and bear on. I know, I know a round hole does not have a “flat” area of bear in shear, but it does have a mathematical square area in sheer. To put it in prospective, two bolts at two joints pass through an area of 6061T6 that is 1 solid inch worth of aluminum. This does not even address the other two joints were hanging weight is transmitted to the vertical mast at those respective locations. Its like a suspension bridge… Each part is way too weak to hold the entire weight and would fail almost instantly… if each part was designed to hold the entire load the bridge would be solid iron.

I will be studying the numbers very closely and reproofing them that’s for sure. One thing that I’ve been constantly amazed at over the years is how skimpy many aircraft parts can actually be… many times things look way too frail to work, but ultimately work quite well, while big bulky things crack or break.

[PW_Plack]

...I know that this design of Mr Martin has several hundred versions flying world wide and the design has been flying for coming up on 40 years. That is a respectable accomplishment...

Cort, I'm enjoying your build thread, but "hundreds flying?" There appear to have been, maybe, 15 registered in the US. Where are they all?

[ironcowboy]

Sorry for the confusion about my statement, you are correct that a smaller number of HA-2Ms are, or have flown in the USA. My brain was including the Marchetti Avenger and all other sub variants of that and (this) design produced world wide over the last 35ish years. The critical design element being specifically, bolted together, twin boom, twin tail, single H Stab all mounted inside a portion of the prop wash with side by side seat configuration, and where the keel tube is a straight spar mated or mounted to a rotor mast with what appears to be “undersized” keel cheek plates. Where the (what appears to be undersized) cheek plates may in fact be more than adequate because the designer transfer’s weight to the rotor mast at numerous other points moving progressively up the rotor mast. (Deep breath) The specifics of the keel’s cheek plate sizing is critical to the original observation in that, what is the optimal keel tube to rotor mast tube cheek plate size, to exclude the possibility that the rotor mast will separate from the airframe under normal, or even abnormal loads while in flight (especially) if I should be PIC of the hypothetical aircraft, when either the former or the later condition manifests.

Incase anyone else is corn-fuzed, I’m back peddling like a clown on a unicycle where an invisible monkey is impeding my retreat, on the misinterpreted statement that may have suggested a larger number of only (HA2M’s) are flying and where I can’t actually prove this in the present time. I am expanding / revising my statement, like a polished senator would, so as to include nearly every gyrocopter that ever flew or did not fly, so as to CMA completely.

So I ask you Mr PW_ Plack, If in fact this is your “real” name, what would you say your level of enjoyment of the thread is to date, if 1 was low enjoyment and 10 was high enjoyment? <<< This is a diversionary statement that I learned about in Government class.

I am Cortland Carrington, and I approve this message. Donations are accepted

[BEN S]

I rate it a 9 so far, and as far as mis-direction goes, it works FAR better when you throw out some ridiculous accusations about something completely un-related. "What?!? Why the hell wasn't Clinton tried for treason after selling nuke test protocols to China in exchange for shares of Iridium stock?"
See how well something like that would work?
Ben S

[GyroDoug]

Court,

Your thread is both educational and entertaining. I would rate it at least a 9. Keep up the good work as I am sure there are many people keeping a close eye on your build. I'm sure Paul is enjoying it too, I think he was just surprised by your statement of how many of these were out there. I am with him on that one. I have never seen one in person so it's not that I don't believe they exist but it's hard to believe there are so many of them around or you'd think we would see one now and again. I can't wait to see yours finished and hear how it flies. Keep up the great work and thanks for sharing your experience with this thread.

Doug

[Gyro_Kai]

10 from me.

Kai.

[PW_Plack]

...So I ask you Mr PW_ Plack, If in fact this is your “real” name, what would you say your level of enjoyment of the thread is to date, if 1 was low enjoyment and 10 was high enjoyment?...

Cort, it's Paul, per the signature, and I'd give it a 9, not 10, only because I didn't wake up in a cold sweat last night at 2am and login to see if I'd missed anything.

All the best with the build!

[Vance]

Hello Cortland,

I feel you are doing a great job on the thread and I look forward to seeing your steady progress.

I would love to be making progress at the rate you are.

I find your good natured amiable style both entertaining and informative.

I find your progress an inspiration and a reminder of what is required to build an aircraft.

I have spent quite a bit of time with Martin Hollmann and have found him to be very conservative and safety oriented.

In my experience making a single part of a system stronger or stiffer can lead to unintended consequences.

My advice would be to build it to plans or call Martin and ask him about your concerns.

Thank you, Vance

[ironcowboy]

This thread has saved or created over 3 million HA2M gyrocopters. I’m calling it the summer of Gyrocopter Recovery. :)

I have contacted Mr Holloman previously with concerns, I have his number in my cell phone, is that cool or what.

This thread has saved or created over 3 million HA2M gyrocopters. I’m calling it the summer of Gyrocopter Recovery. :)

Thank you guys for the high ratings, the more eyes calling out possible issues the safer I think the finished cake will be, or something like that.

This thread has saved or created over 3 million HA2M gyrocopters. I’m calling it the summer of Gyrocopter Recovery. :)

I read some where recently that there are millions of HA2M's. The sky literally buzzes with their engine noises like crazed robot locusts… and bird are terrified to fly.

Oh lookey, an eagle>>>

[Brent_Brown]

this is what I would do just looks safer to me

[RotoPlane]

I have found that to understand your dry humor....one must read between the lines ;).

Because of the quality step-by-step build information and of course the good natured humor....I rate this thread a 10!

[joe nelson]

Ed,

That's Air Force humor...You're ex-Army. lol :lol:

[RotoPlane]

Joe - Yep! Heheh....

[ironcowboy]

Brent,

I can’t see how this cheek plate would be bad in anyway, or compromise the integrity of the keel or rotor mast. It would not add much weight to the airframe, and would double the sheer at that location. There is nothing on this aircraft that would other wise interfere with it. There should be no twisting or fore or aft movement at this location that is acceptable in anyway. I’m giving serious consideration to your Mod

[okikuma]

Hi Cort,

Glad to read the little co-pilot is back at home.

This discussion of the cheek plates has become an interesting one. I'll give you a score of 9.137! I have no doubt the cheek plate is adequate. Just an interesting method on how it was designed.

By the way Ed and Joe, I'm bilingual. I speak both Air Force and Army fluently. I tried to learn to speak Navy, however I still have trouble with the Navy alphabet soup like this one - SECNAVINCAR.

What's really funny is how the various Reserve components really try hard to act like their active duty brethren however the Air and Army National Guard work hard in remaining civilian! LOL

Cort, I still can't wait to read about your first flight.

Wayne

[joe nelson]

Okikuma,

The Navy just has trouble in spelling, that's all. Like the words aircaft carrier...they spell it CVN and submarine is spelled SSBN. Go figure!:der:

All joking aside, I think all who wear the uniform of our country are HEROS!

[okikuma]

Thank you Joe, and I agree with you. I wore the uniform but never served in combat and I'm totally in honor and respect for my brethren who have because everyone of them are heroes to me.

When I was a kid, I once told my Dad, a WW2 Combat Wounded Veteran that he was a hero. He said that he was not a hero, but served with many.

Wayne

[ironcowboy]

Great news!

I’ve spoken with Martin Hollman the designer of the HA-2M. The keel to rotor mast cheek plate is completely fine as is. This is so, because it’s not an open cabin design, bearing 100% of the applied weight / stress. The aircraft weight, fuel and passenger loads are applied to the rotor mast progressively at various points proceeding up the rotor mast from the cheek plate.

Based on stress analysis previously conducted, the keel cheek plate can withstand 2500 pounds as it appears on my aircraft in bearing before a failure occurs. At every point where a ¼ inch AN bolt passes through a 6061T6 plate 1250 pounds can be applied before failure occurs. There are 4 other points on the aircraft where weight is transferred with a total basic load capacity of just over 7500 pounds. In other words if you strapped the Sportster to the earth and tried to pull the rotor mast out of the fuselage, you would need to pull with greater than 7500 pounds of force to pop it out.

The HA2M is rated for 1100 Max gross weight in flight.

[Brent_Brown]

Sounds good to me

[JRB549]

I guess I'll stand alone on this but It still will be a nose dragging gyro, that I would not get in. Wish you all the best but I see this gyro as a death trap with the front cabin on it.

[okikuma]

Hi Cort,

Great to confirm what you already knew.

I totally enjoy reading about your progress and your wonderful explanations of each step. You're knowledgeable and a talented builder. This speaks highly about yourself, your Air Force training, and "can-do" attitude.

Wayne

[ironcowboy]

I’ve decided to remove the windscreen, I don’t like the fit and finish, and I feel there are two stress points that will encourage cracking of the polycarbonate, actually, I’ve already observed stress graining after looking with a magnifying glass. My present installation is a one piece windshield that endures deflection on two different planes, which of course causes minor cupping at the area where the two deflecting planes intersect.

I’m going to separate the windscreen into 3 or maybe 4 separate pieces, I’m not sure just yet… I got my thinking cap on.

[joe nelson]

I agree with Wayne...hooah!

[ironcowboy]

The windshield is now off (that was difficult). Wayne, I’m thinking really hard about making the lower 1/3 an aluminum panel as opposed to windshield. Honestly, I can’t see that much through it, and I know I’m not suppose to be looking down there during landing anyway, I should be looking way down at the other end of the runway’s center line. Even if I aluminize that area, I still have outstanding visibility. It was 98F by 9AM here today... so hot...

[okikuma]

Hi Cort,

Aluminizing the area we both have mentioned previously I think will work out great for you.

Thinking out loud, you could even save yourself some fiberglasss manufacturing time by extending that aluminum panel down and around underneath to the belly (replacing most of the fiberglass chin panel on the nose). Then you could then create lexan panels and fit those into the empty compound curved area to each side and have chin windows like the UH-1 has.

Wayne

[okikuma]

Hey Cort, I'm having withdrawls ... any updates on your Sportster build?

Thanks,

Wayne

[ironcowboy]

Hay all, sorry it been awhile since my last post. I have been side tracked on other projects that have absorbed the lion share of my time and mental energy. I’ve been drilling out rivets from the window frame… little here, little there... I am about ½ done with that.

Okikuma, I think that I will try to form an aluminum nose cone. It’s pretty cheap to goof off, not talking much material, it’s just garage time.

I should start to get spooled back up in the next three weeks or so. I miss my garage and Sportster.