View Full Version : Oz trainer
attached is latest pic of new gyro. Just a couple of adjustments before testing begins - around X mas.
Cheers Echo :D
Pic of dash - blank space below compass is for GPS. ;D
NSI re drive. Patroney wide chord prop.
12-20-2003, 07:21 PM
Nicely done Eric. I would love for you to calculate the VCoG for everyones information.
I look forward to having a fly in with you. I am so envious of your building talents.
12-20-2003, 07:27 PM
Now that my friend is one SWEET looking machine!
12-20-2003, 08:13 PM
Man, that is beautiful. What a nice looking machine. Your building / finishing work is first rate. I'd love to see this one in person...hmmm long drive. ;D
12-21-2003, 12:08 AM
Could you tell us something more about it's specs - weights, engine type?
And what rotor and prerotator are used?
Thanks in advance,
12-21-2003, 07:46 AM
:o that IS BEAUTIFUL!!!!!!!!
12-21-2003, 02:29 PM
Looks beautiful, but just from looking at it, I would be willing to bet my inheritance that there will be severe yaw instability with power off and crosswind landings.
12-21-2003, 06:34 PM
Matt, I think that you are right. Look at the vortex generators on the rear of the doors.
You only have to use these types of tricks when the design in unstable to begin with.
12-21-2003, 06:40 PM
If it has the wiggles while flying.... Just make the rudder wider. I think this is a first class looking machine. Too bad there isn't any of these flying around here.
12-21-2003, 07:17 PM
Could someone tell me where the prop shaft is in relation to the engine crankshaft with the NSI gearbox? ???
12-21-2003, 07:25 PM
Paul the gear box is the wrong way. Crank is bellow the prop.
The gyro is clearly not CLT. It does have a big ole stab.
12-21-2003, 08:47 PM
Ron, thats how it appeared to me, but I would like to have the results from a proper calculation of the VCoG.
12-21-2003, 08:50 PM
If looks meant great flying, I would have that bird in a heartbeat. I really do like the way it looks, but the nature of the beast that we gyro pilots fly is that those great looking enclosure MUST be balanced out with lots of tail set back to an adequate distance from the center of the rotor...and then there's trying to make it centerline thrust and clear a large efficient propeller. Gyros are definitely a unique aircraft to try and design properly. We really just need to borrow some Star Trek technology and get rid of the propeller. If it weren't for the prop, gyros would all be sleek and "low profile" and not so "gangly" looking. Oh well, maybe someday.
If I had the dough, my money would go to Groen for the turbine powered Hawk 4. Lots of go! four place and easy to fly! What else can you expect for $750,000. Maybe a minature exact two place copy with the twin tails would be a hot seller for Groen. Even out a little turbine in it. How sweet would that be!!
12-22-2003, 05:10 AM
If it has yaw trouble I see a fix for it and I would do this to it anyhow. Put a Don Parhan HS or Air Command HS on it. If that is still not good but I think it will be. Lock that tail down and add a rudder to its back side. This will fix the yaw. as for the VCG If it needed it I would flip the gear box or get one that could be flip. Sub 4.
12-23-2003, 01:27 AM
Awesome looking machine!!
I would love to see it in person- Where in Oz are you?
I'm a yank that just arrived in Oz on my sailboat from the US. I have been training in Caboolture and flew up to the Watts Bridge Fly in last week- what a blast!
Tail has been set back 4" from standard to assist in yaw. I have flown in a similar machine in fairly gusty conditions with doors off & it would have been the sweetest aircraft I have flown in ( not counting a Jetranger ). Extremely stable & user freindly . Wheel spats with winglets also assist.
If there are doubters of this machines ability- good .......I'll be too busy flying it to talk to you .
the builder - Owen Dull- lives just south of Brisbane. Or Dave Stubberfield in Bundaberg has one,too. The pilot you have been flying with should be able to help contact them.I live in Parkes- about 12 hrs. drive south of Brisbane. Probaly a bit too far for a look.
wheel spats with winglets designed to control adverse yaw fitted.
12-23-2003, 05:40 AM
Please give us a flight report ASAP! It's definitely a hot looking bird! :D
12-23-2003, 02:16 PM
I met Owen last weekend at the Watts Bridge gyro fly in and had a nice conversation with him. Several people had told me he was building a really beautiful gyro and so we spoke about coming down there to see it.
I am flying again the week after New Years and I think we will fly Alan's RAF down there to see your machine.
Wow - I can't wait.
Finally my two girls together ( there's a line there ) !
Did you mean you were flying to Parkes with Alan? If so you are both welcome to stay here as long as you like ( or until I ask you to leave - which ever comes first ).
12-25-2003, 04:01 AM
I think I misunderstoood you originally- thinking your machine was still at Owen's. I gather your machine is no longer at Owen's but is now at your place in Parkes.
Owen must have another one under construction now that we were going to see.
My wife and I are planning some travel around Oz though so we will get down your way eventually so I can drool on your machine.
thats a real sweet gyro !! i do have a question for ya, if ya dont mind, how much does she weight?? does owen sell a rolling chassie?
have a great time flying that beauty!!!!! ben
12-28-2003, 08:32 PM
Is this cabin a new design or taken from existing manufacturer?
Mean looking gyro for sure, kinda flirting with me . . . ;)
Even my favorite collor on it!
who are you , & where are you ?
Weight - 270 k's with blades on & 15 ltrs of motion lotion.
owen Dull designed & built these machines himself. He has no web site. He will supply any stage you require- from just the cab right through to a test flown machine.Unless you have plenty of spare time on your hands & lots of patience , I recomend the later. Mine is No.9 built , with a twin carb EA81 Jap import. If you have the readies go with the 912. The frame I used is made by Ross Symes of Broken Hill, however Owens new undercarriage is far more supperior.
I modeled my joystick on a Robinson 22 chopper- in short .........does'nt work. I spent today making a new one.
click on my name will tell ya about me . thank for the reply ben
Hi, I ma new here, but I don't understand something.
Matt wrote: "If it weren't for the prop, gyros would all be sleek and "low profile" and not so "gangly" looking. Oh well, maybe someday."
What about ducted fan.
I think I have seen some like this, what happend to them ?
01-07-2004, 09:06 PM
The ducted fan has a lot of theoretical advantages and you can paper your walls with technical stuff from AIAA, NACA and SAE on it. But the guys who have tried to make practical use of it have usually given up. Even experienced and well funded shops.
It works great in RC models, but the thing is, air molecules are the same size, they don't scale. I could start talking about scale effect here but then I'd have to begin with Reynolds numbers and the guys in the forum would hang me from a hangar (that's why they're called hangars, actually).
01-08-2004, 01:40 AM
don't worry about the others.
I would like still to go on with this ducted fan.
I have seen some nice pics of slic, streamlined
ducted fan gyros, unfortunately don't remember where.
If they all failed, it's a pitty, but nevertheless I would
appreciate hearing something more about it.
How would I contact Owen? Does he have a phone number or email address? Likewise for Ross Symes.
Owen Dull designed & built these machines himself. He has no web site. He will supply any stage you require- from just the cab right through to a test flown machine.Unless you have plenty of spare time on your hands & lots of patience , I recomend the later. Mine is No.9 built , with a twin carb EA81 Jap import. If you have the readies go with the 912. The frame I used is made by Ross Symes of Broken Hill, however Owens new undercarriage is far more supperior.
I have read this thread from the beginning, but am unable to decide whether this Gyro represents a brand new design, a modification of an existing design, or simply a new Gyro.
Secondly, if this is in fact a new design, then the obvious question is how much does cost, and where can I get it?
Finally, it would also be useful to have some information regarding specifications and performance.
04-05-2004, 03:46 AM
I have seen some nice pics of slic, streamlined
ducted fan gyros, unfortunately don't remember where.
I am always very leery of 'styling' in aircraft, particularly in kit/homebuilt aircraft, which tend to be underengineered. In my opinion, a good design begins with a mission and proceeds from that. A bad design begins with a swoopy shape on an envelope (or, worse, an attempt to copy somebody else's swoopy shape).
The one real advantage I see to a ducted fan in a pusher gyro is that, in theory, you can get the same thrust out of a smaller diameter. That has a number of benefits in the gyro world. In practice, whether you actually deliver the promised thrust depends on how well you design the ducted fan.
One very major con is that you will need a duct, which is not a standard product that can be bought from suppliers, and you will need a fan; a regular propeller doesn't cut it.
Here is a book that you can purchase. A couple of chapters are downloadable as .pdfs.
I believe that Martin Hollmann sells either this book or one of his own. His site is either:
or aircraftdesign.com without the "s" (one of these sites is Marty's, the other is Dan Raymer's).
This oddball aircraft design, which does not seem to have gone beyond the imagination-and-website stage, includes some ducted fan information:
Here is a ducted-fan driven Long-EZ
04-05-2004, 04:11 AM
04-05-2004, 04:14 AM
I have seen these pages before.
There is a saying: 'what looks nice flies nice'.
This is that all aerodynamically clean machines just look 'nice'.
Some pople say, gyros fly so slow anyway, so you don't need to make them 'clean'. But maybe it's another way around. Maybe they are not fast because they are 'dirty'.
I just passed my aerodynamics test in my ground school with all that Reynolds values and can see there is something to be done on gyros.
Have actually anybody 'blown' a gyro, except maybe Avian builders?
What came out? A cerified ducted prop gyro.
I see many more advantages of a duct:
1. Duct can work as a V and H stab.
2. Duct is much safer than prop to the public.
3. Duct gives great noise reduction against prop.
4. With high rev car engines you don't need redrive.
5. Duct delivers steady thrust independently of speed
replaces in flight pitch adjustable prop.
This all is also big envelope improvement and weight saving.
Sorry for the delay.
The machine is designed & built in QLD . I am going away for a while , e-mail me on email@example.com.
04-17-2004, 08:59 PM
Now THAT"S a real good look'n bird.
I envy you Echo.
Hey Finke Demon,
one day I will load her up & get Ken Watson to come along out to Indiana & get some red dirt & camel poo on it.
cheers XR rider
04-28-2004, 04:10 AM
Bugger the XR,only KTM's for this black duck Echo.
...the electric start on the 640 is kinda tempting.......
04-29-2004, 09:55 PM
Maybe I should'a said,KTMs WERE for this black duck.
Gett'n too old and slow to go charge'n through the desert at 180kmh.Thats why I swiched to gyros,less pain mate.
...'too old & too slow..' ?
Hang on a minute....I'll see if the missus has a spare SKIRT I can send you......
I suppose if the new hired help outflys you , you can blame the busted foot.
05-01-2004, 02:10 AM
If she out flys me I'll have to shoot her down,
.......the 'Handbrake' may do it for you......especially if you come back late from a bore run.....
Eric - XR Sole
05-02-2004, 02:20 AM
That looks neat Echo.
Would the reg rectifier on the 912 be able to keep up with the currant of two units runing all the time.???
05-02-2004, 02:22 AM
Also,if that setup is on your horny yellow bird,it would be sucki'n warm air already.
dunno, you would have to ask a sparky. The units have 20 amp stamped on them , you wouldnt need them on all the time as they get fairly hot.
Tim reckoned I wouldnt have too much of a problem with carby heat on Owens cab , I was just mucking around to see what happened.
I tried sending you some pics on e-mail , but it came back saying your thingo was 'full' (?) . If the old cracker lets me , I'll give you a tingle later.
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