Arrow-Copter website now online!

[ckurz7000]

As of today the newly designed website for the Arrow-Copter (http://www.arrow-copter.com) is on line! With prices, a gyro configurator and interesting iformation.

-- Chris.

[Caribean_gyro]

I wonder if they ever considering building parts in an off shore company. I wish more companies look Puerto Rico as a viable place to manufact and export to US.

ChuckP

[Resasi]

Like the product, high quality.

Expensive, but high quality.

[WHY]

Hi Chuck

It all starts with "liability" then costs ect. Puerto Rico functions under the US liability laws as far as I know, I would have loved to manufacture in Puerto Rico, even checked out the Dominican Rep, and Costa Rica and finally settled on Belize, but that was about two weeks before 9/11 so decided not to manufacture anywhere off shore and dropped the idea of production.

Since we are such a "sue nation " here, liability must be taken into consideration for any small manufacture because if you are successful to any degree someone will do something stupid and then immediately sue you for their stupidity .

Tony

[WHY]

PS. and they will win .

Tony

[Caribean_gyro]

I have a friend that owns a metal manufacturing comp. I got him injected with manuf part for sport market. So I am looking for good jobs to quote

[scottessex]

I still think that the arrow copter is just too sexy,
I guess I'll have to start saving my pennies. :)

[troed@aon.at]

Actually 5 Arrowcopters were sold to Switzerland as selfbuilding kits. If the regs in Switzerland somehow comply with the yet unknown FAA-regs the AC10 could be on it´s way to US soon :whoo:

[ckurz7000]

Actually 5 Arrowcopters were sold to Switzerland as selfbuilding kits. If the regs in Switzerland somehow comply with the yet unknown FAA-regs the AC10 could be on it´s way to US soon :whoo:

Actually, only one was sold to Switzerland as a "kit" in order to be registered as experimental amateur build. An other one goes to Spain, one to Slovakia and one is going to remain with the manufacturers as a demo and research machine.

Arrow-Copter is going to be the first gyrocopter flying under the newly (as of 8 Feb 2010) created gyrocopter class in Austria with a MTOM of 560 kg. The Arrow-Copter is designed to meet or exceed Section T standards and is also seeking approval under these guidelines. But I guess this will take a little while to come through.

-- Chris.

[WillyRose]

I just tried the site (alright, using a steam-powered IE6).
No matter which option I take from the drop-downs, it's not displaying any text.
Has anyone else had problems with the site?
Regards,
Clive

[Dmorris]

Site works for me.

[Resasi]

The more I look the worse I feel...about not being able to have one.:sad:

Delighted that they will apply for section T.

I noticed that they mention an optional canopy that opens on the side. If that meant the possibility of say removing two side panels, one on either side, and enjoying a partially enclosed cockpit that really would be icing on the cake.

It is an exceptionally beautiful looking gyro.

[StanFoster]

I personally think that is the nicest looking gyro out there. It looks like it was sculptured by the wind itself.


Stan

[BEN S]

Only on the configurator tab the rest are black.
Ben S

[ckurz7000]

Interesting, I have no probelm viewing the page (IE8).

BTW, I will be at the AERO 2010 in Friedrichshafen, Germany, this April. They will have the first fully functional series production machine on display. You can be sure that I'll have my camera at the ready ;)

-- Chris.

[C. Beaty]

Works fine with Firefox.

[NoWingsAttached]

Wow...drool...cool

[WillyRose]

I'm sure the issue is with my very old IE6. I don't have admin rights on my office PC to install the latest version so I'll check it out from home, when I get a minute...

BTW, I will be at the AERO 2010... camera at the readyWell done, Chris. I look forward to seeing photos of the production version.

All the best,
Clive

[Joe Pires]

I just looked at the specs and it seems to say gross weight 1323 pounds. That would be a dam shame to miss sport pilot by 3 pounds....i guess its a typo????

[Shnozzle]

I'm gonna miss Friedrichshafen this year... :-(

Take LOTS of photos!

-The Shnoz

[ckurz7000]

I just got back from a visit to the Arrow-Copter manufacturing place and had a nice, long chat with the guys designing and building it.

There has been a lot of progress in the meantime. If you want to see photos of the machine (old and new ones), go to http://www.arrow-copter.com/gallery_en.html.

At the bottom of the gallery you'll find a set of photos from the load tests performed to design loads and ultimate loads. The guy in the blue T-shirt is from Austro Control, the Austrian FAA. He was very impressed with the quality of the construction. The Arrow-Copter will be undergoing flight testing starting in about 4-6 weeks (depending on how fast Austro Control processes the application).

The Arrow-Copter will also be availbale in a summer configuration with only a small windscreen. which is, however, sufficient to get the pilot into a completely wind still environment.

-- Chris.

[Resasi]

Chris, thank you for the update on this superb machine. The pictures show the attention to detail in every aspect of manufacture and just how high quality machine this is.

By the looks of the factory set-up it looks as though quite a bit of investment has been put into this machine and obviously aimed at the very top-end of the market

The summer semi open canopy looks great.

Have you had access to any of the flight test data, or talked to any of the pilots who were involved in it's development? We of course have been waiting for your reports.

Is the machine intended to either be factory...or kit build? Or was that 'kit' was sold to Switzerland simply to meet some regulatory requirement and a on-off. Be nice if they were looking into possibly selling into the USA and could meet Sport Pilot weight.

[ckurz7000]

Hi Leigh,

the flight tests will begin in about 6 weeks. Currently, all required documentation (load tests, design drawings, prelim handbook, flight test program, etc., etc.) is at the agency, waiting to be processed. Hopefully, this will be done in the next couple of weeks. Then flight testing will begin and I will keep you abreast of its progress.

As of a recent development, the Arrow-Copter will be available in kit form. The kit is more than complete and contains everything -- engine, avionics, exhaust system, you name it. It satisfies the US 51% rule and can be built in about 300 hours (as per the estimate of the designer). The kit can be ordered in three phases so that the payment is spread over the building time. I am not sure about pricing, but the figure that was tossed around was 80,000 EUR (that's complete, ready to fly, with engine and instruments). But please don't hold me accountable for that price. At the moment this is just hearsay.

-- Chris.

[Friendly]

I had one of the photos for my Windows background for a long time. Everytime a female saw it, she would make a fit over it. So I had to take it down. I can't take any competition. I do like that gyro. I will be glad when they post some more video of it.

[Resasi]

Thanks for coming back on that one Chris. I guess we will all be waiting for the results of the flight testing to come out.

Good to know that it is all moving ahead, and that it is intended to be available in a kit form for a 51% build in the USA. The price mentioned would seem to be in the ballpark for the apparent standard of the machine and it's immediate competition.

Be nice( here's a wish list) if they could do what had been suggested perhaps for the Xenon, have a facility where a prospective builder might be able to assemble his own gyro under/near qualified supervision and possibly pay for the rental of tools and equipment.

Cherry on the cake... with a nearby FSDO that has a gyro knowledgeable/friendly FAA inspector/or DAR to inspect the build process and finished product. Hey we can all dream.:)

[C. Beaty]

I must say that most things look right about the Arrow-Copter and I’m not one to be influenced by baubles and beads. Or by sequins.

Looks like it could be CLT and the horizontal stabilizer is in the right place. The fuselage looks as if the airflow might remain attached and give the prop and tail what it needs.

I do wish some gyro designers could take a page from the Kellett KD-1 notebook and separate cyclic control into separate pitch and roll axes and enclose pushrods in the mast fairing. Stay away from Morse Teleflex cables or the like.

[RotoPlane]

I will never own an Arrow-Copter.....mainly because it is way out of my price range. But gee....I do love the way it looks.....

[GyroDoug]

I want one bad!!! but I'm a little short on the cash so this will have to go into a dream list. But what a beautiful machine and it sure looks like they are doing it right. Many people have been waiting for the next two place cabin class machine to be available here in the US and this jus tmay be it. (at least for the rich and famous) I sure would like to go fly in one!

Gyro Doug

[C. Beaty]

I will never own an Arrow-Copter.....mainly because it is way out of my price range. But gee....I do love the way it looks.....Yep- a number of years ago, there was a flurry of plastic kit cars. Mount a fiberglass Ferrari lookalike body on a Datsun pickup chassis and pretend it was the real thing. But it was still a Datsun pickup truck.

You could also have a Dussenberg J or a Lamborghini.

Here’s a plastic Dussenberg that looks so real that you'd have to look underneath to tell that it's a Datsun:

http://muskegon.olx.com/1929-duesenberg-ii-kit-car-florida-car-iid-10874217

I like to see what’s underneath the frock.

[RotoPlane]

I had a '62 Austen-Healey that I bought as-is and the engine blew about three blocks from the used-car dealer. There was something like sawdust in the oil. Too expensive to fix, so I installed a Chevy V-8 and a 4-speed hydro transmission in it…..had to cutout the heating ducts but then I lived in LA. I loved that car.

I dreamed about a Duesenberg kit and using the Buick, or perhaps it was a Hudson straight-8 I had. I don't remember what frame I decided on. This dream, the Healey and my plane left when I married. I shiver when I think how dumb I was back then……

The car in your link used a Volkswagen (not a bug hopefully) frame which may be a good choice. The interior needs some work but still one good looking car.

[Aviomania]

I must say that most things look right about the Arrow-Copter and I’m not one to be influenced by baubles and beads. Or by sequins.

Looks like it could be CLT and the horizontal stabilizer is in the right place. The fuselage looks as if the airflow might remain attached and give the prop and tail what it needs.

I do wish some gyro designers could take a page from the Kellett KD-1 notebook and separate cyclic control into separate pitch and roll axes and enclose pushrods in the mast fairing. Stay away from Morse Teleflex cables or the like.

I have to say Mr Beaty that i love the way it looks very much... i even think is more pretty that our fully enclosed we have in the works.

The prototype photos were suggesting that some angles were off but on the new pictures looks like they are OK.

I am skeptical on only 2 things.

a: the all composite mast. Composites are Excellent.. but when they fail, they do so suddenly. How will the must take blade flap? will this be possible to crack the must if it was strong enough ? What the company has in there favor is that they are very experienced with composites.

b. The "unhedral" wings ( undercarriage wings), how will they behave at low G, high bank, like a stall turn? they will have the tendency to roll the frame inverted..... Yes.. i Know..... Gyros are not for aerobaticks... so at normal operation they will not cause a problem......


Just some thoughts i formed from just watching the pictures. A close up inspection may change my views.

In few words....an almost perfect gyro.

[ckurz7000]

Hi Nicolas,

all those questions -- and many more -- I am curious, too. I know that they did a lot of calculations and simulations before they built the prototype, which flew a year ago. The prototype had very convincing flight properties, but was never put through a rigorous and meticulous test program.

For the production Arrow-Copter there is now a flight test program on 100 pages. It details exactly what tests need to be performed under what conditions and what data need to be taken. This program is now undergoing approval by the Austrian "FAA". When it is approved, we will start flight testing the Arrow-Copter and doing it right. Stability tests around all three axes (as well as static and dynamic) are just one part.

I hope to report more as soon as results become available.

-- Chris.

[Resasi]

I am not up on computing but was under the impression that X box or similar simulation programs that Jay Carter was using would give good indications of indicated flight performance?

I am perhaps a little surprised that my impression now is that perhaps more may have been focused upon, stability and structural integrity than flight handling, though I may probably way out of line.

I wonder what priorities people such us R.J.Mitchel and Kelly Johnson used when designing some of Aviation's masterpieces.

[ckurz7000]

I am not up on computing but was under the impression that X box or similar simulation programs that Jay Carter was using would give good indications of indicated flight performance?

I am perhaps a little surprised that my impression now is that perhaps more may have been focused upon, stability and structural integrity than flight handling, though I may probably way out of line.

I wonder what priorities people such us R.J.Mitchel and Kelly Johnson used when designing some of Aviation's masterpieces.

Leigh, I wonder if those aviation pioneers whould have shunned the use of modern computational methods had they been available during their times. Given their innate drive for innovation, I reckon they would have embraced them. I also don't know what regulatory and bureaucratic hurdles those aviation engineers had to jump in order to get their designs certified.

The computational results of a detailed Finite Element Analysis were used to design the Arrow-Copter to specific structural standards. Those standards were tested in real life (just follow the link I gave a couple of posts earlier) by olading all parts of the gyro first to design load and then to ultimate load. In the very last picture you see a guy in a green T-shirt holding a Red Bull can. He is the one who did the computations on structural strength. It turned out that his results tallied with reality and the Arrow-Copter passed those load tests with no problem.

Earlier, you'd have probably destroyed a couple of planes in the tests and spent more time with models, slide rules and engineering tables. But with the computational tools available in the modelling department today, people like Dietmar Fuchs (designer of the Arrow-Copter) can actually build a machine like this gyro without the resources of a whole military branch or the Lockheed company behind them.

I am perhaps a little surprised that my impression now is that perhaps more may have been focused upon, stability and structural integrity than flight handling, though I may probably way out of line.

I don't know where you got this impression from, Leigh. Structural integrity has been proven by load testing. In-flight stability has been addressed by the design of the Arrow-Copter and will be tested during the flight test phase, during which the Austro-Control flight test program requires testing for static and dynamic stability around all three axes measuring control force and control displacement gradients, alpha and phugoid oscillations, etc. The Arrow-Copter is currently undergoing the most rigorous certification process for a gyroplane in place anywhere. It is more demanding than the British Section T guidelines.

I guess the best results are achieved when all available tools are used in a synergistic way by a knowledgable and creative person.

-- Chris.

[Resasi]

Chris, you misunderstood me, and I have not made myself clear.

I am aware that there had been extensive computational predictive airframe analysis, and that it has now been substantiated by physical testing. A great and efficient of present technology that the pioneers would certainly have loved.

I was simply wondering(do not know) if this type of approach has also been used in to predict the flight characteristics of this machine?

Stability it will almost certainly possess, having followed basic guidelines, but were they able to go further, ie did they predict/compute some performance figures prior to actual flight testing?

[ckurz7000]

...I was simply wondering(do not know) if this type of approach has also been used in to predict the flight characteristics of this machine?

Stability it will almost certainly possess, having followed basic guidelines, but were they able to go further, ie did they predict/compute some performance figures prior to actual flight testing?

Sorry, Leigh. I really did misunderstand you. Thanks for clearing it up.

Of course they used computers to model flight characteristics. Particularly where the effect of the wings is concerned, they relied on calculations. These design concepts were tested in building and flying a prototype machine, whose flight characteristics were reportedly (I didn't fly it, although I am good friends with the pilot who did) exceptionally good. Some modifications were made to the prototype, although the aerodynamics didn't change between it and the final version. So there is good justification to assume the flight characteristics of the Arrow-Copter as it is produced now will be at least as good as the prototype.

But let's hold off on this for a couple of weeks longer and we'll know for sure.

Greetings, -- Chris.

[Resasi]

Thank you Chris, I had imagined they would, and pleased to hear that these matched expectation.

There have to be so many variables that the test flights and proving trials may still bring to light areas that may delight, or need some slight 'tweaking'.

Was fortunate to be involved with the early input of ideas from crews, engineers, operators and owners in the design of the Embraer Phenom 300. It was fascinating to see what they could predict computationally in many areas well before ever cutting metal.

Good to see this approach was used here in all areas as well, with this obviously advanced machine.