Advice on cross wind landings...

[tcory]

Hello. I am new to rotorcraft, but very interested in gyroplanes. I learn from reading AND asking (a lot of) questions (not always a good thing, I found out). My question centers around something I have read in a gyroplane manual (it came with the plans). In a section entitled "LEARNING TO FLY THE _ _, third paragaph, fourth sentence (sorry to be so precise), I read ..."Cross wind landings are not necessary because you will land at very slow speeds and these landings should not be made, ever, unless for emergency landings."...
Is this correct? NEVER land in a crosswind? If the wind is not straight up the runway, either don't land, or land across the runway?
Feedback? tmc
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hash (http://trichomes.org/hashish/full-melt-hash)

[barnstorm2]

Wow, what manual?

Good thing I did not read it I land in cross winds all the time. In fact at a fly-in the weekend before last I came in just fine but all the FW pilots were white knuckled.

[rehler]

I don't agree with that manual.

Cross wind landing can be a problem with a fixed wing aircraft since you have to tilt the entire aircraft (connected to the wings) into the wind and aim the entire aircraft into the wind (crab). In a gyro you just tilt the rotor into the wind and use the rudder to aim the body (wheels) down the runway.

Unless the wind is very gusty I have no problem with cross wind landings in a gyro.

[Chuck Irby]

Ted, one of the best landings I ever made was at Benson Days this past April with a 20 knot cross wind. At that time I only had maybe 15 to 20 hours solo. Just a little stick into the wind and line up the machine with the runway. I think the book you're reading was refering to the beginner.

[cgmg]

One other part I don't like about that statement: Unless you're landing on a 300 foot wide runway, most new pilots couldn't make a spot landing across the runway, and guarantee they would actually land on the runway.

That statement about never making a crosswind landing should always be followed by a statement about significant spot landing practice being necessary to accomplish pinpoint landings. If nothing else, it could also mention landing on a diagonal angle to the runway to lessen the crosswind effects.

It took me about 50 hours of experience to consistently land within 100' of the spot I picked to land. One thing which made that tougher for me was I never used power to help me make the spot, as I consistently land at idle, as engine out practice. I'm just now playing around with varying engine rpm to more precisely pick a landing spot, but do so cautiously, as I think it would be real easy to get into the habit of not always landing at idle.

I agree with the rest of you about crosswind landings being less difficult in a gyro compared to FW's, but that experience is needed to do crosswind landings in either type of aircraft.

[Mike Jackson]

I don't agree with that manual.

Cross wind landing can be a problem with a fixed wing aircraft since you have to tilt the entire aircraft (connected to the wings) into the wind and aim the entire aircraft into the wind (crab). In a gyro you just tilt the rotor into the wind and use the rudder to aim the body (wheels) down the runway.

Unless the wind is very gusty I have no problem with cross wind landings in a gyro.

Ken,

I might expand on your FW Xwind landing technique. There are 2 Xwind techniques. One is as you describe, but in the flare you lower the wing to keep the drift killed and use rudder(usually opposite rudder) as required to keep the wheels/fuselage straight at touchdown OR you can "slip" the FW all the way to TD by, again, by controlling drift over rwy centerline by lowering the wing into the XW and rudder as required to allign the fuselage/wheels straight down the rwy to TD. Most folks crab til flare and kick the nose straight and lower the upwind wing. Less work, but requires a bit more judgement. The 2nd method is more of a tng technique - good practice controlling drift.

You can use the same techniques in a gyro. The endgame (TD) is slower and you can land somewhat crosswise on a wide rwy to minimize a crosswind component.

Bottom line - in a FW don't land in a crab. Bad technique. You can get away with being sloppy in a FW with nosewheel but in a tailwheel config you might find yourself in a classic ground loop or a rollover in a gyro.

Mike

[birdy]

I'v always said landing in a cross is'nt a big deal,it''s take'n off that can be tricky and cost you alot more ground,especialy if it's gusty.
If I'v gota land on a road [you blokes probably call it a track]thats lined with tall trees ,preventing a cross wind spot land,I'll crab in and instead of a normal flare,I'll side flare into the wind and kick rudder.This brings you to a spot land into the wind.
But it may be different on a proper strip.Tho I can't see why you could'nt float down the RW to the excit just off the ground and flare in frount of the taxi way,into wind.

Please be gentle,I'm but a SCG who hasn't never landed at an airport.

[ventana7]

Birdy
That sounds like an interesting technique-but I'll just think about it for a long time before I ever try it.

Rob

[Chopper Reid]

Very interesting technique there Birdy but you are right, landing in an X wind is easy compared to takeoff in an X wind, particularly when its getting around the 20 knot mark or stronger.A beginner should be avoiding X wind landings, then start on gentle X winds and work your way into them. Just my opinion.

[mceagle]

The main problem with cross wind landings is the pilot rather than the gyro. An experienced pilot can land Xwind as well as in calm air. There is the odd poorly designed gyro that does not have enough rudder (especially engine out) to effect an average Xwind landing.

[tcory]

The sentence BEFORE the "Cross wind landings..." was ..."You can make cross wind take offs only after you are fully proficient in flying your _ _. Cross wind landings..." I took it that "...should not be made, ever, ..." was regardless of skill/proficiency. I guess I can't believe everything I read! THX!
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Aprilia Tuareg 350 (http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Aprilia_Tuareg_350)

[PW_Plack]

I learned to fly in an Aeronca Champ, a small, tandem, tailwheel fixed-wing. That plane does the sweetest, most stable forward slips (crossed controls) imagineable.

When landing in crosswinds, I grew to prefer the method of holding a bank against the wind to avoid the need for a crab. I found it very helpful to practice touch-and-go landings on crosswind runways, holding the bank, keeping only one wheel touching the runway for most of its length, then lifting back off for the go-around. Settling in for the real landing became no big deal after that.

I got fairly proficient at this technique. Will it be directly applicable to flying with a rotor?

[Doug Riley]

Paul: A forward slip works great in a gyro. The bonus is that the frame doesn't sag to one side as in FW; it stays level. Only the rotor tilts to windward as you hold the stick off to one side and keep pressure on opposite rudder. You should do the same when taxiing crosswind on the ground.

[John_Read]

That's right Doug. I find "chinese landings" (WUN WING LO) far easier in a gyro than they were in a glider. You can "kick off the drift" very easily, and you then land with both main wheels hitting the turf at the same time.

(Of course, in a glider there was only ONE main wheel, which I suppose should have made it even easier .... :confused: )