Cost of factory built Gyros

[Mike Nelson]

Fellow fourm members help me understand. I have been checking the cost of several factory built gyros from around the world. The Magni 16 ready to fly, delivered to the states is around $70,000. The Sycamore MK1 ready to fly and delivered is around $80,000. The AerocopterEuropa ready to fly and delivered is around $65,000 and all of these are considered experimental and have to be flown in an annual renewable exibition category. My McCulloch J2 is a fully enclosed 2 place (with lots of baggage space) U.S. factory built, FAA certified, standard airworthiness, great condition with only 229TTSN, last annualed 9/1/04, a true 95mph cruise, never had a problem finding parts and yet potential buyers are balking at my asking price of $37k. My question is why would (and maybe they are not) folks spending $65 to $80k when there is a J2 in great condition, for $37k? Is it because they have not ever flown in a J2 and/or they do not know about them? Do they know there has only been one fatal accident in a J2 due to the student pilot flying with a bad rotor bearing that he knew was over its time limit and was making a very audible griding noise, and no accidents due to mechanical failures? Help me out guys, I really am mistified about this, give me some feedback. Thanks for your help.

[GyroRon]

Can you get affordable insurance for the J-2? Hull coverage too? Wondering if it being certified might help in that respect.

Also can't the J-2 do jump takeoffs? If so would it be practical to make every takeoff a jump takeoff?

Last, I doubt many people will be out there shelling out 60+ grand for one of those gyros, I know If I had 60+ grand to spend I would have a nice Vans RV-4 or 6 and with my change a Sweet Dominator Tandem....

[Mike Nelson]

There is one insurance source that I know of for the J2. I do not carry insurance mainly because I was not able to find it back when I bought it, I do not have it financed, and I was told that it would be very expensive if I could find it. I do however, pay $18,000 a year for full insurance on my R44 helicopter, but it is financed, has a hull value of $300,000 and the bank requires it. I do however, have both aircraft in a sub-s corp which is run by the book, and provides a good amount of liability protection along with some other strategies that we use. It always helps to have the proper rating, current medical and properly flown and maintained aircraft as well.

The J2 is not a jump take-off aircraft, but I have on occasion, (windy cold Kansas day flying solo) been able to roll less that 10 feet on take-off. One thing that always bothered me about the A&S 18A was that on warm days, with two souls on board, it will do a jump take-off but on occasion has come back down and did not remain airborne, which could lead to a rollover or other damage if the re-touch-down is not straight and level.

[GyroRon]

I just thought of another reason some might not want the J-2. Okay maybe two reasons... One is potential AD's on the gyro and or engine. The other is the fact that since it is certified, a Rotorcraft - Gyroplane rating would be required to fly it. You don't need one to fly a Experimental.

[KenSandyEggo]

From my point of view, a disadvantage would be not being able to fit it in my hangar with the 3 blades. Even in San Diego, I would hate to park it outside.....or, is there some way to fit it into a T-hangar? How wide and deep is it as shown in your Avatar, with one blade pointing straight back?

[Victor Duarte]

you can find some comments on MC j2 and a18 here and a good video of take off and landings

http://www.lafhelicopters.com/francais/company/history.htm

regards

[Mike Nelson]

Thanks for the comments and the video. It's true you do need a Gyroplane rating for the J2. As far as A.D.s there has only been (2) that have applied to my J2. One was to check the Lycoming crankshaft for corrosion through the plug (which was fine and took about 20 minutes) and the other was to check the clearance between the rotorblades and the teeter stops which was OK. All of the other A.D.s did not apply to my engine serial number or my airframe serial number. You are correct about the 3 blades as I can get my R44 Helicopter with 2 blades through my 12X12 ft barn doors at home, where as I keep the J2 in a T-hangar at the airport which easily accepts the 26' rotor disc. I do know of one J2 owner who pulls the lead/lag bolt from one blade and swings it forward so he can get it through his barn doors at his home. I guess it has worked well for him, but I'd rather not go to that extent every time I wanted to go out for a short sunset flight. On another topic, I had the FBO install an ELT in the J2 yesterday. It's not required, but I feel better about having it on board the aircraft in case I go down out of cell phone range or find that I am injured and can't otherwise communicate. Again, thanks for your thoughts.

[Gary_in_Orygun]

A big question....what are the life-time-limit parts, and how available (and how much do they cost) are they? Blades would be the biggest one I can think of.

[barnstorm2]

Mike, If I had the cash I would be wanting to buy it from you.

I love the look of the craft, the advantages of it being certified and I have a T-hanger to keep it safe. I even bought the original brochure off of ebay.

[Mike Nelson]

Gary,
The J2 has a 300hr limit on the rotor bearings which are shelf items and inexpensive, and 300hrs on the rudder cables which can be made locally or purchased from J2 parts sources. Originally the blades had a life limit of 1,000hrs just like the Hughes 269 blades, however the McCulloch company went out of business before they were able to take advantage of the increased life limit of 5,500hrs for the 269 blades. If and when I get to that point I will have a chat with the FAA and see if I can make a case for 5,500hrs. The U-frame has a life limit of 11,200hrs and would likely have to come from another ship. My bet though is that it would not get to 11,000 hours over the next 100 years, especailly if flown about 100hrs a year like most private owner pilots. Surprisingly I have found a lot of spare parts including entire aircraft less engine, blades, transmissions, etc. But, all the parts that I have needed thus far have been in stock at my local FBO. Keep in mind that the J-2 was designed and built from a lot of parts from exsisting production aircraft in 1972, which helped the J-2 get certified rather quickly and also helps out in the parts department.

[Mike Nelson]

Tim,

I'd take a credit card!