Keel is 1/8 inch off... would you redo it?

[KDOG]

My keel is about 1/8-3/16ths of an inch aft of where it would be if everything was "perfect". This caused me to make my cluster plates 2.5" instead of 2" to make sure there would be enough meat around the bolt holes. Its an issue with my the holes in my seat braces that go thru the keel, they must be a smidge off... as a result my cluster plates came out like you see in the picture below. Now let me say this, I had the ship together and everything was square and unbelievably tigh and solid. Mast was a perfect 90 degress from keel. So would you redo the seat braces and the cluster plates? Be honest. Do you think it would be unsafe? I don't see how since the plates have plenty of area around the bolt holes, but I'd like your opinions...

[Brian Jackson]

I don't see this being a problem, provided your keels holes are placed the correct distance from the inside wall without scoring. The front~rear location of the cluster plate/keel I don't believe is ultra-critical. So I'm guessing you're still OK. Are you using a transfer punch to mark the cluster plate holes through the pre-drilled holes in the mast & keel? I'm just curious as to tracking down your error. Thanks.

Brian Jackson

[Ralph]

Don't expect high craftsmanship marks in a judging session, but it should be just fine.

Ralph

[KDOG]

Thanks guys. I was primarily worried about safety and flyability, which are apparently just fine. I ordered some more 1x1 angle and cut 2 new cluster plates just now in case I still decide to redo it.

As far as my error goes, I believe I drilled the keel - seat brace (in the seat brace) hole maybe a 1/16th inch to high (toward the mast), this forced me to push the mast back the 1/8th of an inch to get the holes to line up. I would "mark" the holes throught the mast and keel with the drill bit, and then take the plates to the drill press and drill the rest of the way thru both of them, then deburr/camfer and clean the edges up.

Brian, have you recieved any materials yet? Started?

[Brian Jackson]

I just got off the phone with Wicks and they're backordered on some of the 1.5" angle stock. They're shipping me all but that today, and will ship the angle when they receive supplies. Should be here by Friday. Picking up the drill press Friday as well, so it'll be a busy weekend.

[KDOG]

Wow, thats weird. They JUST called me too about the same thing!!! Called my about 2:40pm and its 2:49pm now. Yeah they told me that 1.5" angle should be in any day now. Thats cool. gives me a few more days to mess around with the other stuff.

Yeah, you are going to be busy. Now did you get the 3/16th mast from Wicks or Starbee? I don't remember Wicks having the 3/16ths. Unless you are going redundant....

[Brian Jackson]

I'm doing the redundant mast. Probably doesn't make a whole lot of difference strength-wise, but I'm sticking with the original stock design. Can't wait to get started. Man, you won't believe the color scheme I'm doing with this thing. I'm gettin' pumped now!

[KDOG]

C'mon, tell us the color scheme!!! SPILL IT!

[Brian Jackson]

K,
Mast, Keel, Boom & Composite Tail = ivory mother of pearl (automotive + clearcoat)
Axle tubes (main & upper), Cluster Plates, Engine Mount, Rudder Pedals, Tank Support = metalic powder blue (anodize with 20% blue tint in dip)
Axle drag strut, cheek plates, control rods, cyclic controls, wheel rims, seat braces, shock plate, saddles & tube brackets, nosewheel yoke, nosewheel block & plates = bright-dip copper (specular).

[KDOG]

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Whoa, youre going all out!!! I guess youre going for a show bird. My paint scheme is going to be simple: A nice metallic royal/navy blue for the main frame (mast, keel, tailboom, tail, and digipod) and the rest of the tubing and plates will be white. I want to find American flag decals big enough to fit on the tail and put one on each side. Thats pretty much it.

In other news, I think I will try to redo my seat braces and cluster plates, I will see whether the pieces I have now or the pieces I redo come out better, and I will use the better pieces. I'm at a financial "pause" right now, so I have the time to try to improve what I've got for now.

I suspect that by the time you get what you have together, you'll be ahead of me!!!

[Brian Jackson]

Fortunately it's not a race, so we can take our time and get it right. I think we'll both have nice looking ships when they're finished. I'm going for ultra-precission machining, almost to the point of being fanatical... I want this thing to feel like a swiss watch. But you're right about the "show bird" thing. I figure if I'm going to put this kind of effort into the construction, it may as well be a thing of beauty. Hey, it's my first Gyro and I want to be proud of it. Nothing wrong with a little eye candy!

Cheers,
Brian Jackson

[KDOG]

Did you order the round tubing for the gear yet? I'm thinking of buying the wheel group from Starbee but the tubing from Wicks or Aircraft Spruce. I would like to buy the entire gear setup from WIcks or AS, but I don't think they have the KB axles and airframe brackets. Did you know LEAF doesn't make the big brackets anymore? Bummer.

[Brian Jackson]

All the round tubing for landing gear is arriving Friday from Wicks. There is one diameter though that is back-ordered, thus will ship with the 1.5" angle (also back-ordered) upon receipt at their warehouse. Basically all the tube/angle/plate materials for the entire airship arrives Friday except for the items mentioned, and the stainless plate which they don't stock.

StarBee will be supplying the nose block, nose wheel yoke, cyclic control mechanism, wheels/tires, axles, airframe saddles, seat (maybe), U-brackets (8), Heim fasteners, seat belt harness, upper strut fittings, and perhaps a tail while I experiment with composite designs. The seat & cushion I may custom design/fabricate... haven't decided yet.

By the way, I just got off the phone with Jim Vanek from Sport Copter. Man, what a nice guy... and informative. He will be supplying the rotorhead and may custom build the final cheek plates depending on my hang test. I received an email from a member of this forum in response to an earlier post where I inquired about the feasibility of adapting a Sport Copter rotorhead to a GyroBee. He advised me to contact Mr. Vanek, stating that he would probably be most helpful, even though I'm planning to use DragonWings blades. I'm happy to report that advice was right on the money!

The Sport Copter rotorhead is mega-bucks compared to Brock, StarBee, etc. But there's just something about the design... kinda fits in with that "Swiss watch" vibe I posted about earlier. Besides, I'm not going to be fretting the $1200 I spent for a precission rotorhead while I'm hanging my life from it at altitude. The head is the one single component I don't mind breaking the bank for. Some have said it's overkill for a GyroBee, but so "bee" it.

Cheers,
Brian Jackson

[KDOG]

I will be getting the Starbee tail too, along with the seat, seat plates (unless I can fab them out of that 3/16ths alu that I have), the tail, cyclic, etc.

Right now, I want to get the main airframe - mast, keel, tailboom, seat braces, fuel tank and engine mount - painted so I can leave the beast together! Then I want to get the gear on. But I gotta get that nose block first...

[Brian Jackson]

...But I gotta get that nose block first...
Cool note: StarBee has designed and is supplying a new noseblock design that tenons into the keel, rather than butting against the front of the keel. The Tenoned design requires no side plates to unitize the two, and bolts straight through the existing keel tube to anchor. Appears in theory to be a great design.

By the way, Kevin, don't use 3/16" plate for your seat plates. That's 3X thicker than the plans call for, and for good reason. I know MY ass couldn't stand those high, sharp corners!

[KDOG]

Good point on the seat plates, I'll just have to order a 1'x1' sheet of 1/16th for that.

Is that StarBee nose block you are talking about available? That sound great! I did not know that. Thats a good thing, cuz I'm running out of the 3/16th Alum. sheet!!

Oh well, time for bed. Hopefully I'll dream about flying my bee!!!

[Brian Jackson]

Good point on the seat plates, I'll just have to order a 1'x1' sheet of 1/16th for that.
Wicks can ship you the 1/16" sheet for cheap. Takes about 2 days ground, perhaps 3 in NJ.

Is that StarBee nose block you are talking about available? That sound great! I did not know that. Thats a good thing, cuz I'm running out of the 3/16th Alum. sheet!!
I believe Dana mentioned that it was currently available. Sounds like a very clean installation with a possible weight savings. As I recall, there are only 2 bolts required instead of 8.

Oh well, time for bed. Hopefully I'll dream about flying my bee!!!
Visit the Lucidity Institute (http://www.lucidity.com) and you can. I bought their NovaDreamer device about 5 years ago and practiced with it. Takes a while to learn, but your first lucid drem will freak you out. It's cool playing God every night!

Brian Jackson

[KDOG]

2 bolts??? How is that? I hope we don't have to redo the keel!!! I wish I could see a picture of it, I looked around StarBees site, but didn't see it.