Transition Training Survey!

[Dean_Dolph]

In another thread there was a statement made (by me!) to the effect that transitioning from an instructor's gyro to the owner/pilot's gyro wasn't receiving the attention it deserves. This statement was based on interviews with several instructors (or course it was other instructors not providing enough!) and high and low time pilots.

So, pilots, you may have an effect on how and what training is provided to new students by participating in this poll. Your transitioning stories would also be of value.

[barnstorm2]

My instructor did an OUTSTANDING job of transition training.

He test flew my new machine several times until he felt my trim, sling and other adjustments were spot on. Then he spent lots of time getting to know the machine with me. Then he made damn sure I reacted well to an engine out before he signed me off.

[Udi]

Transition training is not available in places where no gyroplane instructors are available. Most (?) gyroplanes are registered as experimental aircraft and the first 40 hours must be flown within the designated area. Therefore, student pilots who need to transition into their newly registered gyros cannot (legally) trailer their gyros to an instructor who is located outside of their designated area.

For this reason, my instructor was going to travel from MO to CO to help me with flight-testing and transition, but that didn't work out due to conflicts in scheduling. I ended up doing my own transitioning and flight-testing, successfully, but I would have liked having an instructor with me.

Udi

[mcbirdman]

Udi, doesnt the DAR determine the designated area or the instructor who is signing you off?

[Udi]

Yes, the DAR determines the designated testing area, but they cannot assign a testing area that is outside their local FSDO geographic area. The instructor has nothing to do with the aircraft testing and, by the way, they cannot sign you off on a single seat gyroplane. They can only sign you off on the make and model they have trained you on - your or their two seater.

Udi

[mcbirdman]

Oh, I see, then you can get signed off on the their two seater and then get an add on for the single seater? I guess now I am wondering, other than private certificate.... then being legal for experimental.... how do they step over to fly their single place again? I guess I forgot or just never realized that because I had been doing the FW way.... Thanks, jtm

[barnstorm2]

I thought instructors could sign you off on a single place? I guess having an Ultralight single place paid off but then I had transition training anyway.

[Udi]

The way I understand the regs, there is no way for a student pilot to legally fly a single place aircraft. A CFI cannot sign you off on an aircraft with a different make/model than the one he taught you in. BUT, as long as you are holding any kind of rating, you may legally fly any experimental aircraft. You don't need a signoff or an add-on. The whole business of getting a gyroplane rating is kind of muddy and this is just one of the holes in the regs. The PRA exemption for giving training in experimental gyroplane was intended to close another hole, but not all of them.

Udi

[mcbirdman]

I thought it is legal for a soloed fw pilot to fly any experimental single place. I remember hearing people say that they have instructors sending the students their "renewed" 90 day solo signoffs....

[Gary_in_Orygun]

After I completed my RAF 2000 build and had the Operating Limitations in my hand from my local FSDO (Portland, OR area), I wanted to trailer my machine to Gary Brewer in Vacaville, CA to have him do the initial test flying. I had to call the Sacramento FSDO and have them FAX me an ammendment to my OL to include a test area in their jurisidiction for my specific request.

[Udi]

You may be right, James. This is what the FARs say:

61.87 Solo requirements for student pilots.

(a) General. A student pilot may not operate an aircraft in solo flight unless that student has met the requirements of this section. The term “solo flight” as used in this subpart means that flight time during which a student pilot is the sole occupant of the aircraft or that flight time during which the student performs the duties of a pilot in command of a gas balloon or an airship requiring more than one pilot flight crewmember.

(b) Aeronautical knowledge. A student pilot must demonstrate satisfactory aeronautical knowledge on a knowledge test that meets the requirements of this paragraph:

(1) The test must address the student pilot's knowledge of—

(i) Applicable sections of parts 61 and 91 of this chapter;

(ii) Airspace rules and procedures for the airport where the solo flight will be performed; and

(iii) Flight characteristics and operational limitations for the make and model of aircraft to be flown.

(2) The student's authorized instructor must—

(i) Administer the test; and

(ii) At the conclusion of the test, review all incorrect answers with the student before authorizing that student to conduct a solo flight.

(c) Pre-solo flight training. Prior to conducting a solo flight, a student pilot must have:

(1) Received and logged flight training for the maneuvers and procedures of this section that are appropriate to the make and model of aircraft to be flown; and

(2) Demonstrated satisfactory proficiency and safety, as judged by an authorized instructor, on the maneuvers and procedures required by this section in the make and model of aircraft or similar make and model of aircraft to be flown.

I guess a tandem open frame gyroplane may be considered "similar" to a single place open frame gyroplane. When I had my FW training, my instructor would not sign me off for solo in a different airplane than the one he trained me in. Also, my gyroplane CFI would not sign me off for solo in my single place Air Command because, he said, it is different than the tandem he trained me in.

Udi